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2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? - Religion - Nairaland

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2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by jiggaz(m): 6:03pm On Nov 28, 2018
A Bible Study by Don Koenig


In 2Th 2:3 Paul clearly tells us that the Day of Christ will not come unless two things first take place. The apostasia happens followed by the son of perdition being revealed.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


The word interpreted as a falling away in the King James version is the Greek word apostasia. Bible translators unfortunately have translated this Greek word as the English word Apostasy which means to “fall away” as in falling away from the faith. The word apostasia actually means to physically depart from someone or something. Also the words “that day shall not come” is in italics in English Bible translations because these words are not in Greek text. Apparently the Bible translators were trying to fill in the blanks. However, in this case doing so made the translation more confusing.

This translated passage would better read “Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, because that Day will not come unless first comes the departure, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition”.

All Bible translations that say falling away, rebellion, revolt, or anything similar are just trying to define the word apostasy for you but the context does not suggest the English word apostasy should even be used. One of the best short studies I have seen on this is done by Dr. Gary Gulan. I highly recommend that critics of this departure interpretation read his arguments.

Dr. Guland is not alone in his interpretation. Dr. Andy Woods does a complete study on 2Th 2:3 in this hour-long Video. Dr. Woods also believes that Paul is talking about the departure of the Church in the Rapture. Dr. Thomas Ice and other scholars have come to the same conclusion. The article I linked to and the Woods video will give you all the technical information about the passage. Parsing out all the fine details is over my head so I will just stick to a few common sense arguments for this not talking about a general apostasy from the faith.

The latter-day idea that there will be a great apostasy from the Christian faith hinges on the dubious translation of the single word apostasia. Also, if apostasia is to interpreted as the scholars I referenced suggest, it could lend overwhelming evidence for a pretribulation Rapture. By saying apostasia means a falling away from the faith, a false end times theology could be being advanced and it could also be degrading another. Should any questionable word have such power?

We were warned that in the last days there would come wolves in sheep clothing, wicked vile people and those embracing false doctrines. However, this is not the same as a general apostasy from the faith. These people might call themselves Christians but they never were in the faith.

The Church Age is defined by Jesus in the seven letters to the seven churches in Revelation. Five of the visible church types during the Church Age receive correction from Jesus but overcomers are found in all of them. All people born of the Holy Spirit are overcomers. In Revelation we are told that some of the visible Church on earth is near dead or grows lukewarm. We can observe that in history and see it in Christendom today but that never was generally true everywhere on earth and is not likely to become true everywhere on earth before the Rapture. Much of the Church from now until the end can be identified with Philadelphia and Philadelphia is faithful and promised to be kept out of the tribulation. Obviously Philadelphia endures until the Rapture. So we know there is no general apostasy among Bible believers who are waiting for the Lord’s coming.

At what point can we say that this apostasy from the faith is fulfilled? And if we cannot define what becomes general apostasy why would Paul even give it as something we should know? It’s not logical.

The mystery of the Rapture of the Church was revealed by Paul in 1st Thessalonians so it only makes sense that in his second letter to them he is building on what he already taught them. He even says so. The Thessalonians were shaken by a forged letter saying they were already in the tribulation. Therefore, it makes sense for Paul to be reminding them that they could not be in the Day of the Lord because the Church had not departed yet. The context also supports that premises because the following verses tell us that someone is restraining the revealing of Son of Perdition and the most logical conclusion to that is the one doing the restraining is the Holy Spirit within the Church. Therefore, the Day of Christ cannot come before the Rapture of the Church.

The notion that Paul was telling the Thessalonians that there first had to be a falling away from the faith would have made no sense to the people he wrote the letter to. There would have to have been a third letter to the Thessalonians to define what in the world Paul was talking about. The fact that no instruction was needed implies that they understood what Paul was saying. The Rapture Theology had already been defined in Paul’s first letter. How would the Thessalonians even be aware of a general apostasy from the faith in the world? They could not. So why mention it to them without giving any rational explanation about that apostasy?

Throughout the Church Age on earth there are those that departed from true Christianity because they were not of us. However, Christians born of the Spirit do not depart from the faith. Paul obviously was talking to mostly believers and it actually made no sense for Paul to be telling mostly believers that they were not yet in the tribulation because they have not yet observed any general departure from what they believed.



Are we really to believe that Christians will apostatize from the faith in these last days before the Holy Spirit completes the fullness of the Gentiles that make up His Church? Scripture teaches that when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in the Church age ends. The great deception comes on the world after the Church is removed and the Antichrist is revealed, not before. If there were a great apostasy before the Antichrist, why would the religious world even need a false Christ to deceive them?

Is this supposed great apostasy coming all over the world at the same time or is it just in the West? I say that because today we see many conversions to the true faith taking place in nations where there is persecution. Is it just the rejection of true Christianity in the Western nations that qualifies to fulfill the supposed apostasy from the faith?

There is a fundamental concept involved here. Does the Holy Spirit lose the ability to draw people to Christ in these last days or does the Church stay on the offensive until Jesus comes? Does the Church display that the gates of hell cannot prevent the gospel from going out? Or is the great commission agenda defeated by Satan so God has to remove the Church. The fundamental concept is who is sovereign?

We can all weigh the arguments about 2Th 2:3 and decide for ourselves what view makes the most sense. A great apostasy from the faith just before the Antichrist or a Rapture just before the Antichrist? The first view makes it difficult for confessing Christian to even expect to stay saved until the Rapture, but the second view tells us what occurs immediately after the body of Christ is removed. I think it is much more likely that Paul was talking about the departure of the Church in the 2Th 2:3 passage. If that is the case, we need no more proof that the Rapture will take place before the tribulation because Paul in the 2Th 2:3 passage has clearly defined the timing of the departure of the Church for us.

https://www.thepropheticyears.com/enddepravity/2th-23-pretribulation-rapture-departure-or-apostasy-from-the-faith.html

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Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by jiggaz(m): 6:28pm On Nov 28, 2018
Thank you Lord Jesus...
Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by MrPRevailer(m): 5:12pm On Nov 29, 2018
Also the scripture verse "two shall be in one bed, one taken, the other left" can only relate with the Pre-trib rapture. Because in the great Tribulation, there will be clear paradigm/hatred between people that take the mark and people who didn't. They can't be in one bed or working in a field. Because they can't even walk openly talkless of working together in a field.

Also the verse WATCH "People shall be eating and drinking verse" "that your hearts be not overcharged with enjoyments".

There will be no joy in the great Tribulation so this verse can only relate to the Pre-trib rapture.

3 Likes

Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by jiggaz(m): 7:05pm On Nov 29, 2018
MrPRevailer:
Also the scripture verse "two shall be in one bed, one taken, the other left" can only relate with the Pre-trib rapture. Because in the great Tribulation, there will be clear paradigm/hatred between people that take the mark and people who didn't. They can't be in one bed or working in a field. Because they can't even walk openly talkless of working together in a field.

Also the verse WATCH "People shall be eating and drinking verse" "that your hearts be not overcharged with enjoyments".

There will be no joy in the great Tribulation so this verse can only relate to the Pre-trib rapture.

That first verse is talking about the reaping of the harvest at the end of the age by the angels, when the Lord separates the sheep from the goat. I believe in the pretribulation rapture too

1 Like

Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by alBHAGDADI: 7:50am On Dec 02, 2018
jiggaz:




The mystery of the Rapture of the Church was revealed by Paul in 1st Thessalonians so it only makes sense that in his second letter to them he is building on what he already taught them. He even says so. The Thessalonians were shaken by a forged letter saying they were already in the tribulation. Therefore, it makes sense for Paul to be reminding them that they could not be in the Day of the Lord because the Church had not departed yet. The context also supports that premises because the following verses tell us that someone is restraining the revealing of Son of Perdition and the most logical conclusion to that is the one doing the restraining is the Holy Spirit within the Church. Therefore, the Day of Christ cannot come before the Rapture of the Church.



2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

From the bible passage above, we see that the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ will not happen until after there is a falling away and the son of perdition (Antichrist) is revealed. The rapture won't occur until Antichrist has been revealed. How you people believe it will occur before he is revealed is what baffles me. Can't you all see clear scriptures?

1 Like

Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by jiggaz(m): 7:57am On Dec 02, 2018
alBHAGDADI:


2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

From the bible passage above, we see that the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ will not happen until after there is a falling away and the son of perdition (Antichrist) is revealed. The rapture won't occur until Antichrist has been revealed. How you people believe it will occur before he is revealed is what baffles me. Can't you all see clear scriptures?
Read the whole article. The word falling away is wrongly interpreted. The Greek word is Apostasia which means departure, but the English translators wrongly interpreted it as the English word Apostasy which means to fall away. Their interpretation is wrong.

Yes i won't see the Antichrist cos the Rapture will happen before then. I don't care for the Antichrist, i am looking to see my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ not the Antichrist.

3 Likes

Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by alBHAGDADI: 8:00am On Dec 02, 2018
jiggaz:
Read the whole article. The word falling away is wrongly interpreted. The Greek word is Apostasia which means departure, but the English translators wrongly interpreted it as the English word Apostasy which means to fall away. Their interpretation is wrong.

Yes i won't see the Antichrist cos the Rapture will happen before then. I don't care for the Antichrist, i am looking to see my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ not the Antichrist.
I'm not here to argue about whether apostasia was wrongly translated not. I'm only here to show that the Bible passage clearly shows that the Antichrist will be revealed long before the rapture. Dont you understand what Paul meant when he said the day of Christ's second coMing won't happen until the Son of Perdition which is the Antichrist is revealed?
How come you now thiNk you will be raptured before then?

1 Like

Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by jiggaz(m): 8:12am On Dec 02, 2018
alBHAGDADI:
I'm not here to argue about whether apostasia was wrongly translated not. I'm only here to show that the Bible passage clearly shows that the Antichrist will be revealed long before the rapture. Dont you understand what Paul meant when he said the day of Christ's second coMing won't happen until the Son of Perdition which is the Antichrist is revealed?
How come you now thiNk you will be raptured before then?
The Rapture and the Second coming are two different events. At the Rapture, Christ comes for His saints in the clouds, It is only believers that will see Him but the Rapture will leave the whole world in Chaos. He will not descend to the earth.

At the second coming, Christ returns to the earth with His raptured saints and his feet will touch down on Mount Olives to fight the war of Armageddon to destroy the Antichrist. Every eye will see Him by then all over the world. Paul was talking about the rapture not the second coming of Christ. The Rapture is for the church while the second coming is for Israel.

4 Likes

Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by alBHAGDADI: 8:15am On Dec 02, 2018
jiggaz:
The Rapture and the Second coming are two different events. At the Rapture, Christ comes for His saints in the clouds, It is only believers that will see Him but the Rapture will leave the whole world in Chaos. He will not descend to the earth.

At the second coming, Christ returns to the earth with His raptured saints and his feet will touch down on Mount Olives to fight the war of Armageddon to destroy the Antichrist. Every eye will see Him by then all over the world. Paul was talking about the rapture not the second coming of Christ. The Rapture is for the church while the second coming is for Israel.

Where are all of these i.e the separate events written in the Bible? Nowhere.

My dear friend, you've been paying too much attention to fables sold by televangelist. Read your Bible.

3 Likes

Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by jiggaz(m): 8:19am On Dec 02, 2018
alBHAGDADI:


Where are all of these i.e the separate events written in the Bible? Nowhere.

My dear friend, you've been paying too much attention to fables sold by televangelist. Read your Bible.
My brother please let's call it a day biko... I no get power for argument.... Peace...

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Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by Lionsbet: 8:45am On Dec 02, 2018
.
Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by MrSix: 8:46am On Dec 02, 2018
All join
All I know be say it's pre tribulation rapture









Need a laptop?
Contact in sig...
Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by anambraamaka: 8:46am On Dec 02, 2018
Amen
Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by trapQ: 8:51am On Dec 02, 2018
For once jiggaz, I must say I agree with you. You are 100% accurate on this.
jiggaz:
Read the whole article. The word falling away is wrongly interpreted. The Greek word is Apostasia which means departure, but the English translators wrongly interpreted it as the English word Apostasy which means to fall away. Their interpretation is wrong.

Yes i won't see the Antichrist cos the Rapture will happen before then. I don't care for the Antichrist, i am looking to see my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ not the Antichrist.
Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by jiggaz(m): 8:53am On Dec 02, 2018
trapQ:
For once jiggaz, I must say I agree with you. You are 100% accurate on this.
Thank you..

2 Likes

Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by MrPresident1: 9:18am On Dec 02, 2018
Jiggaz, this is complete bullshit wink
Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by jiggaz(m): 9:23am On Dec 02, 2018
MrPresident1:
Jiggaz, this is complete bullshit wink
Go jor.... cheesy

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Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by MrPresident1: 9:29am On Dec 02, 2018
jiggaz:
Go jor.... cheesy

Over the next couple of days, just be watchful and prayerful, my friend cheesy

1 Like

Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by brodalokie: 9:30am On Dec 02, 2018
Nice. I want to add that the rapture is not a recurring cycle. The Pagans believe there are many Paradise and all are here on Earth, equating the falling and rissing seven times expression as to mean the rapture and that Jesus are the ones who are oppressed, some of who never make it out by not solving a riddle.
There's a need to correct this wrong teaching about rapture and the day of the Lord
Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by jiggaz(m): 9:30am On Dec 02, 2018
MrPresident1:


Over the next couple of days, just be watchful and prayerful, my friend cheesy
No shaking i dey nah...
Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by lanrywatt(m): 9:51am On Dec 02, 2018
jiggaz:
A Bible Study by Don Koenig


In 2Th 2:3 Paul clearly tells us that the Day of Christ will not come unless two things first take place. The apostasia happens followed by the son of perdition being revealed.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


The word interpreted as a falling away in the King James version is the Greek word apostasia. Bible translators unfortunately have translated this Greek word as the English word Apostasy which means to “fall away” as in falling away from the faith. The word apostasia actually means to physically depart from someone or something. Also the words “that day shall not come” is in italics in English Bible translations because these words are not in Greek text. Apparently the Bible translators were trying to fill in the blanks. However, in this case doing so made the translation more confusing.

This translated passage would better read “Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, because that Day will not come unless first comes the departure, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition”.

All Bible translations that say falling away, rebellion, revolt, or anything similar are just trying to define the word apostasy for you but the context does not suggest the English word apostasy should even be used. One of the best short studies I have seen on this is done by Dr. Gary Gulan. I highly recommend that critics of this departure interpretation read his arguments.

Dr. Guland is not alone in his interpretation. Dr. Andy Woods does a complete study on 2Th 2:3 in this hour-long Video. Dr. Woods also believes that Paul is talking about the departure of the Church in the Rapture. Dr. Thomas Ice and other scholars have come to the same conclusion. The article I linked to and the Woods video will give you all the technical information about the passage. Parsing out all the fine details is over my head so I will just stick to a few common sense arguments for this not talking about a general apostasy from the faith.

The latter-day idea that there will be a great apostasy from the Christian faith hinges on the dubious translation of the single word apostasia. Also, if apostasia is to interpreted as the scholars I referenced suggest, it could lend overwhelming evidence for a pretribulation Rapture. By saying apostasia means a falling away from the faith, a false end times theology could be being advanced and it could also be degrading another. Should any questionable word have such power?

We were warned that in the last days there would come wolves in sheep clothing, wicked vile people and those embracing false doctrines. However, this is not the same as a general apostasy from the faith. These people might call themselves Christians but they never were in the faith.

The Church Age is defined by Jesus in the seven letters to the seven churches in Revelation. Five of the visible church types during the Church Age receive correction from Jesus but overcomers are found in all of them. All people born of the Holy Spirit are overcomers. In Revelation we are told that some of the visible Church on earth is near dead or grows lukewarm. We can observe that in history and see it in Christendom today but that never was generally true everywhere on earth and is not likely to become true everywhere on earth before the Rapture. Much of the Church from now until the end can be identified with Philadelphia and Philadelphia is faithful and promised to be kept out of the tribulation. Obviously Philadelphia endures until the Rapture. So we know there is no general apostasy among Bible believers who are waiting for the Lord’s coming.

At what point can we say that this apostasy from the faith is fulfilled? And if we cannot define what becomes general apostasy why would Paul even give it as something we should know? It’s not logical.

The mystery of the Rapture of the Church was revealed by Paul in 1st Thessalonians so it only makes sense that in his second letter to them he is building on what he already taught them. He even says so. The Thessalonians were shaken by a forged letter saying they were already in the tribulation. Therefore, it makes sense for Paul to be reminding them that they could not be in the Day of the Lord because the Church had not departed yet. The context also supports that premises because the following verses tell us that someone is restraining the revealing of Son of Perdition and the most logical conclusion to that is the one doing the restraining is the Holy Spirit within the Church. Therefore, the Day of Christ cannot come before the Rapture of the Church.

The notion that Paul was telling the Thessalonians that there first had to be a falling away from the faith would have made no sense to the people he wrote the letter to. There would have to have been a third letter to the Thessalonians to define what in the world Paul was talking about. The fact that no instruction was needed implies that they understood what Paul was saying. The Rapture Theology had already been defined in Paul’s first letter. How would the Thessalonians even be aware of a general apostasy from the faith in the world? They could not. So why mention it to them without giving any rational explanation about that apostasy?

Throughout the Church Age on earth there are those that departed from true Christianity because they were not of us. However, Christians born of the Spirit do not depart from the faith. Paul obviously was talking to mostly believers and it actually made no sense for Paul to be telling mostly believers that they were not yet in the tribulation because they have not yet observed any general departure from what they believed.



Are we really to believe that Christians will apostatize from the faith in these last days before the Holy Spirit completes the fullness of the Gentiles that make up His Church? Scripture teaches that when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in the Church age ends. The great deception comes on the world after the Church is removed and the Antichrist is revealed, not before. If there were a great apostasy before the Antichrist, why would the religious world even need a false Christ to deceive them?

Is this supposed great apostasy coming all over the world at the same time or is it just in the West? I say that because today we see many conversions to the true faith taking place in nations where there is persecution. Is it just the rejection of true Christianity in the Western nations that qualifies to fulfill the supposed apostasy from the faith?

There is a fundamental concept involved here. Does the Holy Spirit lose the ability to draw people to Christ in these last days or does the Church stay on the offensive until Jesus comes? Does the Church display that the gates of hell cannot prevent the gospel from going out? Or is the great commission agenda defeated by Satan so God has to remove the Church. The fundamental concept is who is sovereign?

We can all weigh the arguments about 2Th 2:3 and decide for ourselves what view makes the most sense. A great apostasy from the faith just before the Antichrist or a Rapture just before the Antichrist? The first view makes it difficult for confessing Christian to even expect to stay saved until the Rapture, but the second view tells us what occurs immediately after the body of Christ is removed. I think it is much more likely that Paul was talking about the departure of the Church in the 2Th 2:3 passage. If that is the case, we need no more proof that the Rapture will take place before the tribulation because Paul in the 2Th 2:3 passage has clearly defined the timing of the departure of the Church for us.

https://www.thepropheticyears.com/enddepravity/2th-23-pretribulation-rapture-departure-or-apostasy-from-the-faith.html


Hogwash ... Go and read your bible , and not the truth u think u received from one book u read , who lack truth in totality ..
It is clear from your projection that your interpretation is based on your carnal understanding of the scripture... No scripture is of private understanding, u need to balance it up with other scriptures on the same subject matters ..

2 Likes

Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by jiggaz(m): 10:01am On Dec 02, 2018
lanrywatt:

Hogwash ... Go and read your bible , and not the truth u think u received from one book u read , who lack truth in totality ..
It is clear from your projection that your interpretation is based on your carnal understanding of the scripture... No scripture is of private understanding, u need to balance it up with other scriptures on the same subject matters ..
And who be dis one? Abeg go take several seats.
Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by Denikayan: 11:02am On Dec 02, 2018
Am just waiting for this Rapture

The way I will loot Shoprite on that date when everybody is running helter skelter, They will never recover in the coming world.


Domino Pizza too, Will have a taste of all their delicacy


GT BANK WILL BE MY FINAL DESTINATION. Hard currency I need Knowing anything can happen so far Naija dey dere. We can always bribe ourselves into Heaven.


I just hope no one is having same plan cos anybody I find in this location will be sent to heaven instantly.
Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by linearity: 11:57am On Dec 02, 2018
alBHAGDADI:
I'm not here to argue about whether apostasia was wrongly translated not. I'm only here to show that the Bible passage clearly shows that the Antichrist will be revealed long before the rapture. Dont you understand what Paul meant when he said the day of Christ's second coMing won't happen until the Son of Perdition which is the Antichrist is revealed?
How come you now thiNk you will be raptured before then?

Your opinion is correct and the OP is also correct.

I think the confusion here is, if you believe that the Rapture and the Second Coming are two distinct and separate events.

I personally believe that, they are two separated events, separated by the seven years of tribulation during which the falling away and revelation of the son of perdition will occur.

So, the OP is correct that; believers will not see that revelation of the son of pedition, because they would have been raptured to meet the Lord in the Air.

You are also right to state that; Christ will not come until the revelation of the son of pedition is reveal and there is a falling way, because Christ second coming and touch of his feet on mount olive with tens of thousands of his angels and with the saint will not happen until after the seven years tribulation when the son of pedition will be revealed.

1 Like

Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by sanmitee(m): 12:17pm On Dec 02, 2018
alBHAGDADI:
I'm not here to argue about whether apostasia was wrongly translated not. I'm only here to show that the Bible passage clearly shows that the Antichrist will be revealed long before the rapture. Dont you understand what Paul meant when he said the day of Christ's second coMing won't happen until the Son of Perdition which is the Antichrist is revealed?
How come you now thiNk you will be raptured before then?
The Op should buttress his/her claim from JESUS' statements in Matthew when he said 'Immediately after the tribulation' described in earlier chapter about the Antichrist.


The teaching is clear that pretrib remains human fictional inputs trying to twist the word of God! Be watchful believers.
Re: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Pretribulation Rapture Departure Or Apostasy From The Faith? by omojeesu(m): 12:30pm On Dec 02, 2018
jiggaz:
A Bible Study by Don Koenig


In 2Th 2:3 Paul clearly tells us that the Day of Christ will not come unless two things first take place. The apostasia happens followed by the son of perdition being revealed.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


The word interpreted as a falling away in the King James version is the Greek word apostasia. Bible translators unfortunately have translated this Greek word as the English word Apostasy which means to “fall away” as in falling away from the faith. The word apostasia actually means to physically depart from someone or something. Also the words “that day shall not come” is in italics in English Bible translations because these words are not in Greek text. Apparently the Bible translators were trying to fill in the blanks. However, in this case doing so made the translation more confusing.

This translated passage would better read “Do not let anyone deceive you in any way, because that Day will not come unless first comes the departure, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition”.

All Bible translations that say falling away, rebellion, revolt, or anything similar are just trying to define the word apostasy for you but the context does not suggest the English word apostasy should even be used. One of the best short studies I have seen on this is done by Dr. Gary Gulan. I highly recommend that critics of this departure interpretation read his arguments.

Dr. Guland is not alone in his interpretation. Dr. Andy Woods does a complete study on 2Th 2:3 in this hour-long Video. Dr. Woods also believes that Paul is talking about the departure of the Church in the Rapture. Dr. Thomas Ice and other scholars have come to the same conclusion. The article I linked to and the Woods video will give you all the technical information about the passage. Parsing out all the fine details is over my head so I will just stick to a few common sense arguments for this not talking about a general apostasy from the faith.

The latter-day idea that there will be a great apostasy from the Christian faith hinges on the dubious translation of the single word apostasia. Also, if apostasia is to interpreted as the scholars I referenced suggest, it could lend overwhelming evidence for a pretribulation Rapture. By saying apostasia means a falling away from the faith, a false end times theology could be being advanced and it could also be degrading another. Should any questionable word have such power?

We were warned that in the last days there would come wolves in sheep clothing, wicked vile people and those embracing false doctrines. However, this is not the same as a general apostasy from the faith. These people might call themselves Christians but they never were in the faith.

The Church Age is defined by Jesus in the seven letters to the seven churches in Revelation. Five of the visible church types during the Church Age receive correction from Jesus but overcomers are found in all of them. All people born of the Holy Spirit are overcomers. In Revelation we are told that some of the visible Church on earth is near dead or grows lukewarm. We can observe that in history and see it in Christendom today but that never was generally true everywhere on earth and is not likely to become true everywhere on earth before the Rapture. Much of the Church from now until the end can be identified with Philadelphia and Philadelphia is faithful and promised to be kept out of the tribulation. Obviously Philadelphia endures until the Rapture. So we know there is no general apostasy among Bible believers who are waiting for the Lord’s coming.

At what point can we say that this apostasy from the faith is fulfilled? And if we cannot define what becomes general apostasy why would Paul even give it as something we should know? It’s not logical.

The mystery of the Rapture of the Church was revealed by Paul in 1st Thessalonians so it only makes sense that in his second letter to them he is building on what he already taught them. He even says so. The Thessalonians were shaken by a forged letter saying they were already in the tribulation. Therefore, it makes sense for Paul to be reminding them that they could not be in the Day of the Lord because the Church had not departed yet. The context also supports that premises because the following verses tell us that someone is restraining the revealing of Son of Perdition and the most logical conclusion to that is the one doing the restraining is the Holy Spirit within the Church. Therefore, the Day of Christ cannot come before the Rapture of the Church.

The notion that Paul was telling the Thessalonians that there first had to be a falling away from the faith would have made no sense to the people he wrote the letter to. There would have to have been a third letter to the Thessalonians to define what in the world Paul was talking about. The fact that no instruction was needed implies that they understood what Paul was saying. The Rapture Theology had already been defined in Paul’s first letter. How would the Thessalonians even be aware of a general apostasy from the faith in the world? They could not. So why mention it to them without giving any rational explanation about that apostasy?

Throughout the Church Age on earth there are those that departed from true Christianity because they were not of us. However, Christians born of the Spirit do not depart from the faith. Paul obviously was talking to mostly believers and it actually made no sense for Paul to be telling mostly believers that they were not yet in the tribulation because they have not yet observed any general departure from what they believed.



Are we really to believe that Christians will apostatize from the faith in these last days before the Holy Spirit completes the fullness of the Gentiles that make up His Church? Scripture teaches that when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in the Church age ends. The great deception comes on the world after the Church is removed and the Antichrist is revealed, not before. If there were a great apostasy before the Antichrist, why would the religious world even need a false Christ to deceive them?

Is this supposed great apostasy coming all over the world at the same time or is it just in the West? I say that because today we see many conversions to the true faith taking place in nations where there is persecution. Is it just the rejection of true Christianity in the Western nations that qualifies to fulfill the supposed apostasy from the faith?

There is a fundamental concept involved here. Does the Holy Spirit lose the ability to draw people to Christ in these last days or does the Church stay on the offensive until Jesus comes? Does the Church display that the gates of hell cannot prevent the gospel from going out? Or is the great commission agenda defeated by Satan so God has to remove the Church. The fundamental concept is who is sovereign?

We can all weigh the arguments about 2Th 2:3 and decide for ourselves what view makes the most sense. A great apostasy from the faith just before the Antichrist or a Rapture just before the Antichrist? The first view makes it difficult for confessing Christian to even expect to stay saved until the Rapture, but the second view tells us what occurs immediately after the body of Christ is removed. I think it is much more likely that Paul was talking about the departure of the Church in the 2Th 2:3 passage. If that is the case, we need no more proof that the Rapture will take place before the tribulation because Paul in the 2Th 2:3 passage has clearly defined the timing of the departure of the Church for us.

https://www.thepropheticyears.com/enddepravity/2th-23-pretribulation-rapture-departure-or-apostasy-from-the-faith.html



Lies and twisting of the word!

The Rapture takes place AFTER the tribulation:

Matthew

24:29

Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (COSMIC DISTURBANCES)

24:30

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: (THE SHEKINAH) and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, (IN ANTICIPATION OF THE WRATH OF GOD) and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

24:31

And he shall send his ANGELS with a great sound of a TRUMPET, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (ANGELS EFFECT THE RAPTURE).

That's why Jesus began by saying, "Let NO MAN DECEIVE you"

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