1. No, I can't. God did not give me the full catalogue. You'll have to wait until the Judgment of the Great White Throne to find out. If you remember to ask Him then, He might tell you.

2a. Since we are now being sole authorities on truth, of course they were not right. What more right do you have than I do to make claims here, frosbel? The great joy of Christianity is that God loved us enough to make that kind of sacrifice, that is, to temporarily humble Himself from the lofty Heights of Deity to share in our common mortality so that He could pay the incalculable price for our redemption.

2b. Of course God cannot die. That was the whole point of taking on a human nature too. With it, He could submit Himself to Death for our sakes. That is what I actually said in the post you quoted, isn't it?

2c. [19]And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
Luke 18:19 NASB

Er, no, the Lord definitely did not say that He shouldn't be called good. He only asked why the man called Him good. Was the man equating Him with God and thus acknowledging His Deity or was He seeking to flatter the One Who cannot be flattered? That was what His response was about.

2d. [30]I and the Father are one."
John 10:30 NASB

Obviously, He did claim it explicitly at least once.

3a. I was not saying anything about whether you attack me personally or not. That is not even debatable. You obviously do. I can't remember any antichristian in this moment with whom I have discussed since October last year who has not attacked me personally. You're certainly no exception in that regard.

3b. I'm afraid I don't know this "mythical load of claptrap" you refer to. What does it have to do with following me around this section?

3c. Who decides this healthy environment for spiritual discourse? Let me guess: YOU. If you don't like the position being put forward, it is religious dogma that is anathema and should be exterminated. If they refuse to agree with you, they are dishonest apologists who should be gagged or silenced so that you can have your "healthy environment for spiritual discourse", right?

LordReed:


The question is why is faith important for this process? When something has been performed why do you need faith for it again?

Your question was already answered at least twice. But I do see a good reason to answer again.

If you don't believe that you have sins that needed to be paid for, then, of course, you will not take advantage of the payment made for you. In your analogy, that will amount to not going to withdraw the money paid in for you at the bank because you don't believe you need it.

Also, if you just don't care that you needed to have your sins paid for, then, of course you will also not take advantage of the payment. That would amount to not going to withdraw the money paid in for you at the bank because you don't want it.

Faith is just how we receive the Gift of God in Christ Jesus. Salvation is already everybody's. But nobody can actually benefit from it if they don't take it in Faith.

Ihedinobi3:

Your question was already answered at least twice. But I do see a good reason to answer again.

If you don't believe that you have sins that needed to be paid for, then, of course, you will not take advantage of the payment made for you. In your analogy, that will amount to not going to withdraw the money paid in for you at the bank because you don't believe you need it.

Also, if you just don't care that you needed to have your sins paid for, then, of course you will also not take advantage of the payment. That would amount to not going to withdraw the money paid in for you at the bank because you don't want it.

Faith is just how we receive the Gift of God in Christ Jesus. Salvation is already everybody's. But nobody can actually benefit from it if they don't take it in Faith.

Let me rephrase the question. You said it is already done, meaning the sins have being paid for. The god has received the sacrifice, its a done deal. Now I see it like an account opened on the behalf of the sinner, the banker is the god, settling all debits and credits. Sin could be said to be the debits while the sacrifice is the credit. All of these operations are automatic, the sinner is "unaware" of these things. Now my question is if these things are automatic, with the god already setling the debits and the credits why is there a need for faith? Is it not already done? Is the god not already appeased by the sacrifice?

NnennaG6:

Well, if you're going to address Christianity, then you'd have to address the fact that Christians believe that genuine faith alone in Jesus makes a person righteous

Actually No. There are 2 theological school of thought in Christianity and what you just described is the Pauline Christian school of thought not the totality of christiandom.

In fact majority of christians are Johannine meaning your statement do not follow

johnydon22:
Actually No. There are 2 theological school of thought in Christianity and what you just described is the Pauline Christian school of thought not the totality of christiandom.

In fact majority of christians are Johannine meaning your statement do not follow

The fact that individuals and groups associate themselves with others or with a concept does not mean that they have anything to do with it. So, what really counts here is not what any given person or group labelling themselves Christian says.

The question then is: what does Paul teach differently than John in the Bible?

LordReed:


Let me rephrase the question. You said it is already done, meaning the sins have being paid for. The god has received the sacrifice, its a done deal. Now I see it like an account opened on the behalf of the sinner, the banker is the god, settling all debits and credits. Sin could be said to be the debits while the sacrifice is the credit. All of these operations are automatic, the sinner is "unaware" of these things. Now my question is if these things are automatic, with the god already setling the debits and the credits why is there a need for faith? Is it not already done? Is the god not already appeased by the sacrifice?

You'll never find a phrasing or analogy that will succeed at confounding this matter.

The point is simple. There are two parties. The Sacrifice has satisfied God. But not a single sinner will benefit from it unless they actually accept it.

[quote author=frosbel2 post=75212750][/quote];d;d Baba give me ur WhatsApp number let's chat better or inbox me 08089698268

Ihedinobi3:

You'll never find a phrasing or analogy that will succeed at confounding this matter.

The point is simple. There are two parties. The Sacrifice has satisfied God. But not a single sinner will benefit from it unless they actually accept it.

Why?

BTW I am not seeking to confound anything or else I won't attempt to clarify. I don't need to play your type of games.

LordReed:


Why?

BTW I am not seeking to confound anything or else I won't attempt to clarify. I don't need to play your type of games.

You aren't trying to clarify anything, LordReed. It is impossible to make it any clearer than it was before you started presenting analogies. You can never eliminate faith from this business. Simple as that. If you decide that you don't need to or want to trust God, then you don't get saved. That is you deciding not to take advantage of what is otherwise yours.

Ihedinobi3:

You aren't trying to clarify anything, LordReed. It is impossible to make it any clearer than it was before you started presenting analogies. You can never eliminate faith from this business. Simple as that. If you decide that you don't need to or want to trust God, then you don't get saved. That is you deciding not to take advantage of what is otherwise yours.

why can't you eliminate faith? What is the faith doing?

LordReed:


why can't you eliminate faith? What is the faith doing?

Because faith is how you claim the Salvation as yours.

Ihedinobi3:

Because faith is how you claim the Salvation as yours.

So then is not automatic? Why then do the babies and others you mention get a free pass? Its automatic in their case but not in everyone else?

LordReed:


So then is not automatic? Why then do the babies and others you mention get a free pass? Its automatic in their case but not in everyone else?

As I already said, babies and the mentally weak cannot make a choice. Thus, they are automatically saved.

But the more important reason that they are is that God knew from eternity that they would choose to be saved given the opportunity. They lack the opportunity alone because of things that God knows by Himself. So, there is no unfairness here.