God Did Not Create The Universe - Religion - Nairaland
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| God Did Not Create The Universe by nosa2(m): 8:56pm On Sep 02, 2010 |
When it came to the creation of the Universe, God just wasn't necessary. That's the conclusion renowned scientist Stephen Hawking has made in his latest tome, "The Grand Design," set to hit book sellers next week. "It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the Universe going," Hawking writes, according to an excerpt featured in London's The Times. The Big Bang was a natural event which would have happened without the help or involvement of God, he argues. "Because there is a law such as gravity, the Universe can and will create itself from nothing," Hawking writes. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the Universe exists, why we exist," he says. The discovery of other planets and solar systems outside of our own, which has increased since the early 1990s, helped shape Hawking's belief that the earth and it's neighbors were not divinely developed. "That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions – the single sun, the lucky combination of Earth-sun distance and solar mass – far less remarkable, and far less compelling as evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings," he writes. Scientists, including Albert Einstein, generally did not rule out the involvement of a higher being when it comes to the creation of the universe. Even Hawking did not exclude the possibility in his earlier book, "A Brief History of Time." Isaac Newton, who developed the theory of gravity, historically argued that his science could only explain so much of the universe's behavior, but not its creation. "Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion," he wrote. Hawking retired as Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at Cambridge University last year after 30 years, a position once held by Newton. www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/09/02/2010-09-02_stephen_hawking_in_the_grand_design_god_create_the_universe_it_would_have_happen.html?r=news |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by Nobody: 9:03pm On Sep 02, 2010 |
. . . And are we supposed to exercise our faith now by [b]believing [/b]in Stephen Hawking? . . . |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by Nobody: 9:13pm On Sep 02, 2010 |
Reminds me of david that recently claimed to have created life, only for his claims to be debunked by fellow prof&some atheists as well. He might want to be in competition with Richard dawkins |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by nosa2(m): 10:40pm On Sep 02, 2010 |
But stephen hawking is placing an argument based on hard physical fact and i'm yet to hear somin contrary |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by Nobody: 10:46pm On Sep 02, 2010 |
Dont be in a hurry my dear |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by Nobody: 10:49pm On Sep 02, 2010 |
nosa2:. . .Confronted with the FACT that, in the Universe, things actually materialize out of NOTHING, Stephen Hawking panicked. This latest declaration of his is NOT SCIENTIFIC in any way. . .it sounds very dogmatic. I can almost call him Prophet Stephen Hawking . . . |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by Jenwitemi(m): 6:47am On Sep 03, 2010 |
Firstly, it depends on what is meant by "God" here. Secondly, Mr Hawkings knows nothing as far as the creation of the universe is concerned, for nobody can have concrete proof that the world was not created by "something" or "someone". He is only grasping at straws like everybody else and every book ever written. The truth is,nobody knows how this universe came about, by whom and how it works, yet. Scientists are only beginning to come to formulate a new concept based on what the ancients have been telling them all along, that our universe works like a programmed computer software or a digital file of some sort with the atoms being the bits(1s and 0s). Whilst the ancient did not quite use the mordern computer terms to describe the universe and how it works, they simply said that the universe is an illusion and it is not real, not our real home. The term "illusion" can then be translated to the more mordern terminology of "simulation". Where this new findings will take us remains to be seen. The real question here is, "ARE WE LIVING IN A PROGRAMMED, COMPUTER SIMULATED, INTERACTIVE UNIVERSE?". That is the most important question facing humanity now and not all this old, stale and irrelevant debates between atheists and religious folks whether God did it or not. This kind of debates are totally played out and has now become totally boring and obsolete. The world has moved on, folks. It is time for you all to get with the 21st century gig. |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by KunleOshob(m): 7:08am On Sep 03, 2010 |
@Jagun And who is the programmer of this"programmed" computer simulation? |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by KunleOshob(m): 7:11am On Sep 03, 2010 |
^^^ That asides, last time I checked programmed simulations don't have free will like us humans, they only do what they are programmed to do. |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by Jenwitemi(m): 7:24am On Sep 03, 2010 |
Firstly, i am not Jagun. Just refer to me by my ID, Jenwitemi. Secondly, to the real theme, Kunle, we should be doing this one step at a time. We should learn to crawl and walk before running. First we need to learn about the universe we are experiencing at the moment, how it works, our place in it and what the purposes are that it is meant to serve. After that, we can then start looking for the identities of the programmer(s), if that is ever possible. Forget not that a whole civilization could be behind the programming. Just blindly concluding that some "GOD"(whoever or whatever that might be) did it, is very lazy. I, personally, find this theme to be extremely fascinating. KunleOshob: |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by Jenwitemi(m): 7:37am On Sep 03, 2010 |
Are you kidding? Whatever "simulation" you checked on could never be on the same level as this one we are possibly experiencing. It would be nothing compared to this one. The civilization that would have created this particular simulated universe would be dozens of light years ahead of us in technological advancement with - most probably - unlimited processing power at it's disposal. So, whatever informations you have now about simulations are way too inadequate to make any sort of conclusions. And besides, i don't see why the socalled freewill itself cannot be programmed into the simulation. Programming the freewill element into a simulation as advanced as this would be a walk in the park for the kind of technological knowhow responsible for this reality. Moreover, freewill is an illusion, anyway. KunleOshob: |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 10:44am On Sep 03, 2010 |
God did not create the Universe!?  you bet he did.We all can create little universes of our own. i just Big-Banged one in the toilet recently but was not pleased with their progress so I  (just kiddin) |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by gozzilla(m): 10:55am On Sep 03, 2010 |
He will neither be the first nor the last. I don't even bother with this guys anymore. |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by JeSoul(f): 7:21pm On Sep 03, 2010 |
traffic from here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-508317.0.html and https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-508110.0.html continue on this thread. |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by MyJoe: 7:33pm On Sep 03, 2010 |
Tonye-t:  |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by nosa2(m): 7:36pm On Sep 03, 2010 |
The concept of good vs evil, the punishment of evil doers after death and the reunification of loved ones is a necessary ingredient in the control of any society with out these elements life itself would be meaningless, morality would be out the window and civilisation as we know it would be non existent, so basically even if the evidence points to a world without God I believe its prudent for people to have their God's so at the very least they have a purposeful existence. |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by MadMax1(f): 7:50pm On Sep 03, 2010 |
Jenwitemi: The bolded part has said it all. For arguably the most intelligent man on the planet, Hawkings far overreaches himself. I had to stop at the Matrix conspiracy theory though. I don't get that part. There's a civilisation that created this universe? Do you mean that in the 'Lobsang Rampa: The Hermit' sense? How did you arrive at this? Isn't that quite a leap from your previous theory; we are all pieces of God? We're like pods planted by an alien civilisation; complex computer programming. Really intriguing. Isn't it all just semantics though? Replacing 'illusion' with another word, something spacy and upbeat and sexy; 'computer program'? Is that essentially what 'getting with the 21st century gig' means? A new slang for old concepts? Are you really saying something new here? Whatever it is, it's interesting. |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by Tudor6(f): 7:52pm On Sep 03, 2010 |
Good. . ,now everything is in order. |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by Nobody: 7:58pm On Sep 03, 2010 |
Nice jesoul. MAY GOD the creator of not only the universe but all things that dwells therein continue to bless u. U shall give birth to triplet soon, all boys&no girl. lol |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by Tudor6(f): 7:59pm On Sep 03, 2010 |
Btw, if you folks think you can get enough idea to comment on what Hawkings has to say from some news articles then you're all more pitiful than i thought. Get the damn book , read it then come back and tell us why you think steven is wrong. |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by MyJoe: 8:21pm On Sep 03, 2010 |
Mad_Max:Thought I was the only one who has tracked Pilgrim Jewi's progress from positive pantheism-panentheism to experimental computheism-megatheism. |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by MadMax1(f): 8:27pm On Sep 03, 2010 |
Experimental computeism rotflmao!!! My sides! good lord. But the new theory is interesting. An alien seedling eyeview of the universe fits in with people who believe life began here from alien origins. |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by Nobody: 9:35pm On Sep 03, 2010 |
Dnt know that hawking is really suffering. Just saw him couple of seconds ago on becky andersons program on CNN connect the world. She said he would be appearing on larry king live on friday morng the next. Berra watch out |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by mantraa: 11:33pm On Sep 03, 2010 |
Respects to stephen hawkins for stating the obvious. If you believe a God did create the universe, which god was it out of the thousands of gods that people believe in and why? And what was she doing before she created the universe? Do you really believe that this vast universe with billions of planets, stars and galaxies was created just for us humans by a god? We have only in the last few years started to see that most of the universe is way beyond our reach. This has only been found by using the science of astronomy which has helped us to really begin to understand this universe. There are many more questions to be answered, but lets not jump to premature conclusions first thought up by bronze age humans who understood nothing of the nature of this planet earth, let alone the vastness of the galaxy and universe that it is in. The evidence is clear that the universe has been in existence for billions of years before the earth was formed and life started. The heavy elements that created us were formed over billions of years in the nuclear fusion reactions inside stars which later exploded as supernovas. Maybe there is a purpose which we just have not discovered yet or maybe there is no purpose at all. One thing we do know is that the earth and humans are not at the centre of the universe like most religions have always thought we were. |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by mantraa: 12:13am On Sep 04, 2010 |
From Agibecky Any dummy can understand John 1:1 of the Holy Bible: You know that John 1:1 of the Holy Bible was written by a man who had no comprehension of the nature of this world or the billions of galaxies in the universe. He also obviously didn't know that languages evolved. What about before humans could talk, when humans were still very primitive homo erectus, homo habilis, Homo neanderthalensis, australopithecus etc. Also, what use is a word if there is no air to carry the vibrations to create sound and there is nobody else around to hear it anyway. The writer obviously did not know how sound waves travel and that space is a vacuum. |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by vescucci(m): 8:44am On Sep 04, 2010 |
This Hawkings padre is really causing a cosmic furor. Four threads now. Is he supposed to be the guy who wrote The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy published by Jehovah books? |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by PastorAIO: 8:48am On Sep 04, 2010 |
mantraa: You are severely limiting the meaning of the word LOGOS. Admittedly most christians have little grasp of what it means either. To just call it a word, one that travels as sound waves across space, can be misleading. |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by MadMax1(f): 9:45am On Sep 04, 2010 |
mantraa: Don't get your ideas mixed up. Hawkings is a physicist, not a theologian. That you understand a process doesn't mean anything except that you understand the process. It says nothing about God. It's not his job to tell you which God created the universe. I've been reading his books since A Brief History of Time. In the 19th century, even before the discovery of atoms, Physics said it had discovered everything there was to know. How wrong that was. They're just finding stranger and stranger things. They aren't even done with the atom, as it keeps getting smaller and smaller when they found it didn't end with electrons and protons. In one article Mr hawkings declares the physicists understanding of the universe may be close to complete, and that God isn't necessary in the process. He's entitled to an opinion, but until an alien civilisation comes here to say 'We Come In Peace,' Mr Hawkings speaks neither for physics nor for makind. Jenwitemi has pointed it out. He's just clutching at straws. Physics knows far too little and can not make sweeping pronouncements about 'God'. He has no evidence for anything he's saying. It's just his own inferences. CS Lewis pointed something out. A Maker cannot be discovered within his own creation. He is apart and distinct from it. Just like an architect can build a house but he himself doesn't comprise a wall or a window in that house, or an engineer can build a car but he himself isn't within the car as the tyres or engine or passenger seat, so God cannot be found within the universe he has made, but outside of it. If an alien civilisation created the universe, but they are light years away, they are still within this universe, a part of it, and so were created themselves, and so did not create the universe. There is nothing any scientist will find that will say there's no God. It's like exploring a house or a car, not finding its maker within it, and fashioning theories that will eliminate them having a maker at all, and feeling very clever about it. Science is illuninating but science is just human beings and human beings can be very stupid. |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by mazaje(m): 10:37am On Sep 04, 2010 |
Its very funny how as we continue to discover that the universe is VERY complex, people continue to expand and change their Gods to meet up or fit in with the new knowledge that has been obtained, If modern man was to write the creation account in book of genesis which is said to be directly from the God of the bible himself on how he supposedly created the universe, the account will be very similar to the Big bang theory and it will be nothing like the ridiculous drivel and nonsense that is written in the book of genesis. . . . Why is it that many Christians I know COMPLETELY discard the genesis creation account which is said to be from their God himself, but still maintain that their God created the universe? Many maintain that the genesis creation account is not factual and does not agree with observable evidence but still maintain that their version of God created the universe, how so?. . . . . . It's either genesis is right and the God of the bible created the universe or genesis is wrong and the God of the bible did NOT create the universe. . . .The Jury is out, genesis is wrong(observable evidence shows that it is) and hence the God of the bible did NOT create the universe. . . . . . How can people be saying that their various versions of Gods created the universe when: 1. The way their Gods said the allegedly created the universe does NOT agree with observable evidence of what we see, test and measure. 2. We don't even know what the Universe is, we are yet to know what it really is. . . . .Most part of it is beyond our reach 3. Creation stories and myths abound all over many cultures each claiming that their particular version of God created the universe. . . . , |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by julianH(m): 11:03am On Sep 04, 2010 |
@poster, i pity you |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by Jenwitemi(m): 12:50pm On Sep 04, 2010 |
Guys, if you know jenwitemi very well, you would have realized by now that he does not set his stall on one particular school of thought. In order for one to have any chance of understanding this reality that we experience, the first thing that one needs to do is to free oneself of a permanent attachement to a particular paradigm. As we search for the truth behind the universe, we need to first of all rid ourselves of the old rgid paradigms that explains little to nothing and be open for new ones. That demands a total paradigm shift and thinking big in our part. So, jenwitemi does not belong to any particular theological group, but rather is roaming as he searches for the truth. The terms that you are trying to attach to jenwi are totally irrelevant and rejected. I have no need or use for labels. MyJoe: Mad_Max: |
| Re: God Did Not Create The Universe by MadMax1(f): 1:00pm On Sep 04, 2010 |
I hoot whenever I see that 'experimental computeism'. This MyJoe will not kill persin. Seriously, though, you might consider elaborating on the alien origin of the universe theory. It's genuinely interesting. How should one take it, though, coming from you; since you say now you'll be changing religious theories like clothing. |
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