Nodogragra4me:
Answer: I am not claiming to know neither are those your so called 33,000 denominations claiming anything. They, just like myself knows we know we carry the very presence of the teacher, The Holy Spirit. I never claimed I know the Holy Spirit. It is not something I have to keep under wrap for it would not be scriptural to do. Jesus regularly called attention to what he carried without apologise. You have to announce what you carry on the behalf of heaven.

Your Scripture passages: I have mentioned here before that knowing the scripture is not a function of the human intellect. It takes humility for the spirit to reveal what is actually in plain sight to anyone. You can have a PhD in philosophy and theology and still not see anything from the scripture. It is seeing that makes the difference. Habbakuku says ... I will stand my watch and see what the Lord will say to me....not hear but see what the Lord will say ...say not present to...when you get to the level of seeing what somebody is saying you got another spirit of conviction beyond the intellect working through you

If you had cared for guidance you would have noticed that the book of Thessalonians you cited in support of the extra biblical practices of the Catholic church never supported what you purport it had supported. ….. ”whether by speech or by letter."
the information here simply tells you that both the written letter and their speech were one and the same. Whether the one they gave as letter or speech carried the same message.

Your third scripture : keep away from men like the pope who live an undisciplined life and same that is without scripture backings … What is biblical discipline? According to my pastors definition, it is simply the disciple's lifestyle. Paul said more than once "what saith the scripture?" when proving his doctrinal points. That is the tradition he was talking about.. The tradition of validating every word from the scripture like they learnt from Jesus, himself.

The tradition of the apostles was to ALWAYS show by the scripture that Christ was the LORD. God's tradition as practiced by Jesus and the apostles had support from the scripture. It never existed as an extraordinary additions to it. Acts 17:1-2 —In Thessalonica, Paul, “as his CUSTOM was,” went to the synagogue “and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures.”

There is no other way of checking the propagation of error but by the written word. The scripture is the only available tool backed by heaven for guiding against error within the body of Christians. You would readily agree with me that the only way for detecting error is by comparison against a known tried and perfect standard which is the Bible for one tradition can not be a standard for another. Example is your referring me to some ancient members of your church in trying to prove your point. The Scripture says the bereans search daily In the books of Acts 17:11 to see whether the word they receive had scriptural backing.


When paul warned us about the consequences of being wise in our own eyes because he already saw this consequence from the written word: 1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is WRITTEN, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness

Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Angels in heaven comes tommen and only repeat the written word but a flesh and blood somewhere in his wisdom crafts something outside the scripture and you call it the tradition. Here: Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth.

Revelation 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: (Angel telling John not to bow before him but your church says you should kneel before your Mary statue in prayer and still claim not to worship her) for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book…. The BOOK…. THE WRITTEN WORD: worship God



Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Therefore when you harp on TRADITION AND THE APOSTLES, I assure you that whatever was the custom or tradition amongst them was and is still in the scripture

Nodogragra4me:
You have used this sola scriptura too often without knowing the meaning ... Bible or scripture alone doesn't mean you are not to read a book outside the Bible ... What it means is that whatever is being expounded must have scriptura backing for even Jesus the Christ didn't justify any statement about his authority without a reference to the Scripture hence the many occasions he had to preface his statement with : It stands written or Have you not read.

Matt 4:4-10)
Mark 7:13)
John 10:34

Here is Paul affirming the SOLA SCRIPTURA: 1 Corinthians 4:6, Paul says, "Now these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes; that in us you might learn not to go beyond the things which are written; that no one of you be puffed up for the one against the other

In Catholic public domain Bible

6 And so, brothers, I have presented these things in myself and in Apollo, for your sakes, so that you may learn, through us, that no one should be inflated against one person and for another, not beyond what has been written. (CPDV, 1 Corinthians 4:6)

New Jerusalem Bible ...Catholic recommended Bible

6 I have applied all this to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that you can learn how the saying, 'Nothing beyond what is written' is true of us: no individual among you must become filled with his own importance and make comparisons, to another's detriment. (NJB, 1 Corinthians 4:6)

Douay Rheims ... Acclaimed word for word translation of the Bible

6 But these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollo, for your sakes; that in us you may learn, that one be not puffed up against the other for another, above that which is written. (DRB, 1 Corinthians 4:6)

Nodogragra4me:
Mr. Saint is a title for God's people while they are here ... You don't want me to flood this thread with all scripture where the word is found. Everyone that calls the name of the Lord is saved and is a saint. Whosoever believeth is a saint .. stop adding to the Scripture. Any Christian is a full saint not partial saint and is to be called same without any official Decoration

Nodogragra4me:


Try as much as you may want to, you and your pope will never make God or his word a lie. Having sacked the Holy Spirit from the catholic church and replaced him with great thinkers, you will only get the result that is of the world for the enthronment of religion.


MAY GOD FORGIVE YOU. I should ask the pope and his gang about any truth and not the Holy Spirit, who is the actual teacher of the truth and not truth but THE TRUTH.

THE WORD OF GOD...the Bible...CAME OUT OF THE Church (ASSEMBLY) that was first ignorant of the same word... May your eyes of understanding be opened in Jesus name.

I asked the Holy Spirit what I was to write while I opened this page and here is his answer: He says to tell you that it is line on line... One explains the other to a novice Christian under apprenticeship. Here


15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, ...... He went on to say that the next statement only explained in detail this first state...... House of God


which is the church of the living God, ....and the last actually explain the LIVING GOD in the second


the pillar and ground of the truth. (AV, 1 Timothy 3:15)


I swear to God that I added the Bible verse from Eph 2:20... The spirit never gave it to me or rather never ask me to add it .


20 And are built [26] upon the foundation of the [1] apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the [2] chief corner stone; (AV, Ephesians 2:20)

Nodogragra4me:
Mr Since I asked the Holy for answer and he gave it to me I have had this burden on my spirit even when I went out to have some nice time with a friend since my family is not around..... He says to tell you that the first question you will be asked on your judgment day will be about this encounter with me.

I have to release this... It has been a burden since morning...nothing I did could clear this from my spirit

9inches:
Your word against Christ himself. Only the Church is authorized to teach the truth. Continue living in denial and willful ignorance until it's too late. Attacking the Pope of bishops or any individual isn't going to help your case. It's either Christ himself is telling the truth - that he's the head of the body (the Church) and will be with the her until the end of time - or he's lying.

9inches:
There's no law against calling yourself a saint. You're attacking a straw man.

9inches:
You're in confusion. Paul wrote this before the year 60AD, so that would make all the letters and books, including Revelation, invalid. You see how your interpretation falls apart?

9inches:

Good to know you are not claiming the authority given solely to the Church by Christ himself. So, why don't you listen and learn from the authority itself? Why do your own will when you are supposed to do the will of God?

Wrong. You need intellect to be able to read and understand the bible.

9inches:


The "speech" as mentioned by Paul contains more than the letter while at the same time not contradicting each other. It's simply impossible to squeeze a 2 year teaching of Paul for example in a book or even in 10 books. So you can't have it all in the book. If today you are offered Timothy alive and the bible, which one would you choose to have proper all the truth?

9inches:



Your pastor could try to teach you the truth but always remember he has no authority to teach it. He's prone to error and so has all it takes to mislead you. I'd suggest to learn only from an authorized source - the One True Church, where Christ himself is the head; the only pillar and foundation of truth. The only Church guaranteed that the gates of hell shall never come against it.

Nodogragra4me:
You have used that intellect to interpret 1 Timo 3:15 for ages to mean that your church is the ground and pillar of truth but just a simple, Holy Spirit what is the mind on God on this scripture revealed a meaning never known to all the great thinkers your church ever assembled in this same matter because God uses the foolish things if this world to confound the wise

Household of God = Church of the Living God
Church of the Living God = Ground and Pillar of The Truth.

Your second Scripture: You are to imitate me just as I have imitated Christ. What is the custom and tradition of Christ? Simple! It is written ...have ye not read? ... what saith the scripture? See: And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he…. Jesus?.... expounded(means to explain the written word) unto them in all the SCRIPTURES the things concerning himself. (AV, Luke 24:27)

It doesn't contain more than the letter. It is an expanded version of the letter. You have agreed that the letee and the speech didn't contradict themselves so where then is your argument?

If a man is to read a letter to an illiterate, for the purpose of understanding the content of the letter he is bound to explain which is to expound. He is at liberty to use local scenario to try to bring clarity but not to introduce something the letter never envisaged as a practice... Example is the worship and prayers to your none omnipresent saints and Mary. It is not an expansion of any verse of the Bible or your church believe that the pope is infallible. Your church writing prayers with all the stops and twist is unscriptural. The Holy is the one to impress it in your heart when it kneel or stand

Your third scripture : keep away from men like the pope who live an undisciplined life and same that is without scripture backings … What is biblical discipline? According to my pastors definition, it is simply the disciple's lifestyle. Paul said more than once "what saith the scripture?" when proving his doctrinal points. That is the tradition he was talking about.. The tradition of validating every word from the scripture like they learnt from Jesus, himself.

If you can explain from the scriptures when and where the church prayed to dead people and Mary or embarked on a process of canonization of a dead man into a saint then I will believe your statement.

The tradition of the apostles was to ALWAYS show by the scripture that Christ was the LORD. God's tradition as practiced by Jesus and the apostles had support from the scripture. It never existed as an extraordinary additions to it. Acts 17:1-2 —In Thessalonica, Paul, “as his CUSTOM was,” went to the synagogue “and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures.”

There is no other way of checking the propagation of error but by the written word. The scripture is the only available tool backed by heaven for guiding against error within the body of Christians. You would readily agree with me that the only way for detecting error is by comparison against a known tried and perfect standard which is the Bible for one tradition can not be a standard for another. Example is your referring me to some ancient members of your church in trying to prove your point. The Scripture says the bereans search daily In the books of Acts 17:11 to see whether the word they receive had scriptural backing.


When paul warned us about the consequences of being wise in our own eyes because he already saw this consequence from the written word: 1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is WRITTEN, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness

Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.Where did you get the tradition of the apostles in the bible? You simply don't know what they are.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Angels in heaven comes tommen and only repeat the written word but a flesh and blood somewhere in his wisdom crafts something outside the scripture and you call it the tradition. Here: Daniel 10:21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth.

Revelation 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: (Angel telling John not to bow before him but your church says you should kneel before your Mary statue in prayer and still claim not to worship her) for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book…. The BOOK…. THE WRITTEN WORD: worship God



Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Therefore when you harp on TRADITION AND THE APOSTLES, I assure you that whatever was the custom or tradition amongst them was and is still in the scriptureIt's really simple, either the Church teaches the truth, as Christ guaranteed, or it doesn't, which would make Christ a liar.

Nodogragra4me:
There is not a single verse or nook of the Bible that renders another invalid unless you are trying to understand the Bible with your human intellect.

Every spoken word is only an expansion of the concise world of The Truth.


Every good and intellect teacher uses illustration to bring home his point.

When Jesus expounded from ALL scripture all that written concerning him he was only explaining all the summary in the scripture. He didn't add something the scriptures didn't envisaged or supported. He only explained in details all that was said by ALL the prophets concerning him

When Paul says it shouldn't be beyond the intent of the written word he was only stating the e obvious learnt from Jesus Christ himself... The, it is written grand master.


Every Scripture based prayer always have the, it is written, component but not all the words used in that prayer is expressly written in the scripture but if the stated word is not drawn from the written it won't have Gods power flowing through it because his power only flows through his word. It is word that he promised not to allow fall to the ground not yours

Nodogragra4me:
That is not what your church thinks or believe.

Your church believes a saint is an omnipresent intercessor living in heaven

9inches:
That's what my church teaches.

False. My church does not believe any person other than God is omnipresent. Saints in heaven can however hear the prayers of saints on earth.

Nodogragra4me:
Jesus promised to send the Holy Ghost who will teach you all truth. The truth is not in any man. It is in the Spirit of God. Christ and his original apostles never referred to the church of God ...assembly of Gods people as the pillar or ground of the truth. You can't find any such word or statement in the bible. ... The church is only a privilege recipient of the truth

God is not the author of confusion. What you and the Catholic Church led by the pope sees is only a reflection of their consciousness. It is not the mind or the intention of God.

The Bible is absolutely complete for every practical purpose of Christianity.

Christ promised to remain with the church, an assembly of his people, .... Any where two or three are gathered in his name is a church...an assemblage of his people that he will remain with

Nodogragra4me:
If you church doesn’t believe that there is no other omnipresent but Jehovah then how and why does she believe that multiples prayers from different areas of Nigeria and Africa can be heard and answered by a so called saint in heaven?

9inches:
The truth is in the church and only the Church has the seal of authority to teach the truth. If you get your truth elsewhere, you are at risk of getting a mixture of some truth and some falsehood. The church that Christ himself is the head supersedes any human being because human are fallible... and therefore CANNOT until the end of time teach any single falsehood. The church is Christ's bride, that's why could see us use the pronoun "she".

9inches:
Because in heaven, there's no time and space.

9inches:
You're making a lame argument. Jesus was already gone before the first ever book of the NT was written. If Paul meant "don't add to ALL the scripture" as you claimed, it would invalidate the latter additions to the scripture. But to us who understand better he wasn't referring to the whole scripture before or after him. He was talking specifically about the instructions he was giving them at that point the time.

Nodogragra4me:
Clearly, you have exhausted your knowledge on what is before you. Your Saints are able to transform into omnipresent beings upon the earth because there is no time and space in heaven?

Nodogragra4me:
The only teacher of the truth , out of the scripture, is the Holy Spirit.

Is it the truth to spend your longest hour of prayer communing with your Mary and her legions?
Is it the truth to confer infallibility on a man when history records that some of the past holders of that same infallibility office of your church actually fathered children whose great grand children today runs the city of the Vatican?

Is it the truth when the Bible goes in one direction and your church heads you in another on a single issue like sainthood?
Is it the truth when your church tells you that there is a purgatory and Jesus and his apostles never knew of it?

Is it the truth when Jesus was known to defend himself with, it is written and the apostles followed that tradition of, it is written, have you not read but your church cant show you where to read about Mary worship or prayers to and through their decorated saints?

Nodogragra4me:
If you church doesn’t believe that there is no other omnipresent but Jehovah then how and why does she believe that multiples prayers from different areas of Nigeria and Africa can be heard and answered by a so called saint in heaven?

9inches:
Because our prayer reaches heaven.

9inches:

The right and the most basic question you should be asking is "did Jesus start a Church?"

9inches:
You want Saints to become onmipresent like God?

9inches:

The right and the most basic question you should be asking is "did Jesus start a Church?" what is the name of the church and their doctrines

Nodogragra4me:
That is what your church is actually promoting. That Jesus Christ the one who paid the price to become our mediator in heaven, the only one that is the way to the father and the one who gave us his name as the passcode to heaven is too busy or too full of himself or untrustworthy to be relied on hence the multiplicity of Jesus’s within your church that plays the role he told us was exclusively his.

Nodogragra4me:
Did he start a church?

Nodogragra4me:
And when your prayers got to heaven the actual mediator, Jesus Christ, was either too busy or hard of hearing that a new intercessor was granted without the knowledge of the scriptures to your church, right?

9inches:
Those are entirely your own views, the Catholic church does not hold such view. Bring me any evidence that supports your claim from Catholic teaching. Check Catechism of the Catholic Church or the Catholic Encyclopedia if you want to know exactly what the Church believes and teaches, and not what you think the church believes and teaches.

9inches:
Tell me, what do you think? Did he start a church?

Nodogragra4me:
When I was a catholic , I am very sure I was a better one than yourself. My wife is a cadet by reason of her dad been a super knight in your church. Whether you expressly write it down or not is of no consequence. What matters is the practice.

If you leave the chief of staff to the president and use another means to try to access the president, it is either because you don't know the chief of staff, you don't trust him to grant you access or you have heard stories that is puffy himself.

There must be a fundamental reason why you believe that a matter as serious as talking to God requires a a merry-go-round approach. God is forever eager to converse as a father with each and everyone of us. The one reason Jesus came was so we all could have access not through priest but individually to him hence the shredding of the veil of the temple signalling the admission of everyone that would care to approach

God doesn't love any of those so called saints much more than he loves you. The love is equal.

Nodogragra4me:
You are not sure of any of your previously held opinions, right? Even the scripture you thought said something has turned not to have thought of the ideas you and your church ascribed to them....all the scriptures you have cited as defence here ended up not actually saying that you proclaimed it said.

You brought the matter of tradition and and gave scriptures but you have now discovered that the tradition was actually not what you have always thought it to be. You brought up the superiority of the church against the very end of God that existed even before the fort man was created. (May God forgive you.) and you equally discovered it wasn't what you thought.

Brother, God though the holy spirit stands forever ready to back his word but never your personal opinion of it.