9inches:
Your pastor has torn out the parts of your bible that encourages saints to pray for one another... right?

9inches:
How could I be wrong when you don't even understand the bible you claim to believe in? You are yet to understand that Christ established a church and gave it special authority, and the guarantee that it will NEVER fail. Arguing with is really a waste of time. I'm only doing this so that any person, especially younger people who come across this will read my replies.

9inches:
Believe it or not, the bible says that. If you want to deflect because it makes you uncomfortable, go on. Your issue is with the bible and Christ himself.

9inches:


So what is the tradition of the early christians? What did they do in their churches? How did they baptize? What did they think of Mary? What did they think of the holy communion?

9inches:


Again, you're still showing utter ignorance. You probably didn't know that those churches Paul and the apostles were writing to had already heard the gospel. So, most of the letters were like reminders, settling disputes and words of encouragement. The churches hold more truth than contained in the few pages of the bible. Paul spent 3 years in Arabia, and you think the pages of the bible contains everything he preached. God created you with a brain, please try to use it. And hey, maybe you should invite your pastor here, I have a question for him. Or could you ask him to give the name any first christian he knows from Corinthians, Galatians, Romans, Philippians, etc. I'd love to hear his answer.

9inches:



Actually, I'm not wasting all these effort to convince you. You don't seem to me like a very rational individual. I'm making a case for any sensible reader who comes across our dialogue to see and consider. I'm too occupied with my time to try to convince you. My part is to lay bare my argument and my conviction. That's all. You need to ask the Spirit of Truth in prayer to reveal the truth to you with regards to the new (shocking) information you are getting. An honest heart will always find truth when it seeks it.

BONUS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFkMyG35RPU

Nodogragra4me:
Sure saints, living here on earth are to pray for another. It is scriptural. It is intercessory prayer but no so called Saints in heaven orays for you. It is the demons in the heavenliss that you pray to.

Jesus Christ is the only being in heaven that has the capacity and right to mediate between man and God, the father. Angels are ministering spirits not intercessors.

9inches:
Does your bible say there's difference between saints in heaven and saints on earth? Why are you committing heresy, Mr man?

Nodogragra4me:


The Bible didn't say what you have ascribed to it. The church is not the pillar more ground of truth. It is God, through Jesus Christ that is both. If I demand the support from the scripture you won't be able to provide it. God didn't want anyone been confused about anything about him. His word says in the mouth of two or three is a thing confirmed.... Can you provide any part of the scripture that supports the first?

1 John 5:8
the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

Matthew 18:16
"But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that BY THE MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES EVERY FACT MAY BE CONFIRMED.

Deuteronomy 19:15
"A single witness shall not rise up against a man on account of any iniquity or any sin which he has committed; on the evidence of two or three witnesses a matter shall be confirmed.

2 Corinthians 13:1
This is the third time I am coming to you EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESS

Timothy says the household of God which is the church of the living God, the living God himself been the pillar of anyone truth.., every truth must find a support from gods word and it must be the ground upon which is it harvested. .... Jesus supported this when he declared that he is the only way, ....the ground, the path, the road, ....... The truth... The entire word he is....and. Life... The spirit

They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.?.... Acts 2:42

You are just going round in circle contradicting yourself. First, it was your church that wrote that Bible and now it is no longer so. You have now turned around to agree that what your church claimed to have written were actually letters written personally by the apostles involved. You now understand that when your church says, reading from the letter of saint Paul to.... It is actually a letter letter personally written by Paul and not your church. Thank God. We are making progress albeit slowly.

Jesus put the first nail to your church claim when he expounded from ALL scripture all that was written concerning him my ALL the prophets. Now you have now seen the original source if the new testament...the Apostles. To God alone be all the glory.

Albert Einstein spent years on his invention but everything important to knowing how he did it is in less than a fifty-page text. The Bible is a concise word of God covering everything about God. Preaching is ordained by God in order to expound that scripture like Jesus Christ and the Apostles did. Preaching and Teaching is nothing but an elaboration of the text of the word of God.

If you have been privileged to her the Holy Spirit speak, you won't fail to notice that he speaks mainly clauses. He never embark on detailed explanations..when I asked for the mind of God concerning your claim on 1 Tim 3:15... He simply said...line on line..one explains the other.... If I was to debate you in my own I would have stated that the clause are independent and if the apostle meant what you claimed he would have used the conjunction...AND... AND IT WOULD read, the church of the living God and the ground and pillar of truth.

You don't seem to have any originality about you. After you go round you come to repeat me. I have already ad iced someone here to bear with you because you trapped in religion and that it is not fun for me to return always to the same issue. God back and you will find it and now you have copied it and made it your own.

Be that as it may be. In addition to the above, I reply you faster because God has given me the means to do so without any cost to me. I use IPad for business and pleasure and I am therefore able to reply you at a moment notice.

I ask again, is it the truth that your pope is infallible? Answer, so we can go back in history and see just how infallible they have been.
Do you realise that not a single of your church practice is attributed to the apostles but to popes... From Mary adoration, worship and pray for us. Image worship to purgatory ...

Dispute this by pasting the days or years and originating persons for some of your church doctrines here

Nodogragra4me:
I can't repeat this enough: Saint is just a general name for believers in Christ. It is a name for those who have separated themselves to god by covenant. While here on Earth hence you cannot find your own meaning of the word in the entire scriptures.

Once you accept Christ, you are a saint. It doesn't require elaborate ceremony that runs for years to sanctify and declare anyone a saint. It is automatic. Spirits live in heaven. They don't have blood and flesh.

9inches:
The bible your pastor gave you says when saints on earth goes to heaven, they cease to be saints. That's the heresy you've been brainwashed with by your pastor. Continue.

9inches:

1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZOt7dbrpOY
2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0MIEsvOes
3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FyYpMOhhQo

Nodogragra4me:
Nope. He introduced me to the King James Version and I am loving that Bible like mad.
The thing is you have left all your the core issues you and your partner ubenedictus were pursuing to now focus on the mundane which is also, sadly, beyond your realm.

You are no longer arguing about how your church wrote the Bible since the scripture has conclusively put that to rest; you are no longer grandstanding on the place of the church and God with God been obedient to the whims and caprices of your church leadership under the guise of church tradition learnt from the Apostles. Now you know that the church is not the ground and pillar of truth but Jehovah God for Jesus himself settled the matter when he declared that he is the WAY.... THE GOUND.... THE TRUTH AND LIFE. ?...John 14:6..... Truth is only by Jesus not in any funny cap wearing human being but by Christ.


As for your grandstanding on who a saint is, I want you to go through the entire bi or and paste, for posterity, the versus that referred to men and women in heaven as saint and the time they prayed for the actual saints here on earth.... Your church wrote the bi le so I expect you to know where to find the evidence from the same bible since you must have the manual to it.


The scriptures are the only guide and examples given and approved by heaven : 2Tim.3 Verses 16 to 17


[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


The scriptures doesn't answer to the intellect ... No part of it is of any private interpretation. See:

20 KnowingG1097 thisG5124 firstG4412 , thatG3754 noG3756 G3956 prophecyG4394 of the scriptureG1124 isG1096 of any privateG2398 interpretationG1955

Nodogragra4me:
You have done this childish act before and I scolded you for it and now you have returned to it. I don't want any other persons opinion but yours as you know it ... Stop referring generations unborn to a man's opinion. Tell them that you, 9inches said this and that but if you have exhausted your knowledge, you can paste a summary of those videos here ... I am yet to send you out of nairaland.

I ask again, is it the truth that your pope is infallible? Answer, so we can go back in history and see just how infallible they have been.
Do you realise that not a single of your church practice is attributed to the apostles but to popes... From Mary adoration, worship and pray for us. Image worship to purgatory ...

Dispute this by pasting the days or years and originating persons for some of your church doctrines here

Nodogragra4me:
The Bible didn't say what you have ascribed to it. The church is not the pillar more ground of truth. It is God, through Jesus Christ that is both. If I demand the support from the scripture you won't be able to provide it. God didn't want anyone been confused about anything about him. His word says in the mouth of two or three is a thing confirmed.... Can you provide any part of the scripture that supports the first?

Timothy says the household of God which is the church of the living God, the living God himself been the pillar of anyone truth.., every truth must find a support from gods word and it must be the ground upon which is it harvested. .... Jesus supported this when he declared that he is the only way, ....the ground, the path, the road, ....... The truth... The entire word he is....and. Life... The spirit

9inches:


More of the heresy being taught to you by your pastor! The living God is NOT "the pillar of anyone truth", the living God is truth himself. According to Timothy (1 Timothy 3:15), God’s household is the church of the living God and is the pillar and foundation of the truth. Now this will make you angry and more defensive and hostile but you should really reflect on your version of Christianity. Select your church from this list and weigh their testimonies. https://chnetwork.org/converts/

9inches:


Study the history of Christianity and know what the early Christians after the apostles believed and preached. Then study the bible and you might understand how your KJV came about. That's what these people in the videos I posted did and got to the truth.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FyYpMOhhQo

9inches:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2oAlQebJo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5crScs1uWtg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7rv3S0dM-Q

Nodogragra4me:
Mr. Go through the entire scripture and fish out a cross reference of your claim that the church is the pillar and foundation of the truth hence at liberty to introduce any doctrine of their choice.

The church cannot be the pillar....the support....it cannot be the foundation of the truth ..It cannot be the ground . God said his word will he not allow to fall not your word or opinion of his word

Jesus say in John 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (AV, John 14:6).... Jesus is the way, he is the truth and he is the life and no crazy saints gets access to the father, no Mary gets access to the father....only Jesus is the way to the father

11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. (AV, Isaiah 55:11)

When I started ’anyone truth’ I meant it to mean any truth.. I have repeated it here that God is the truth and your argument has been that the church is the truth...... I have stated that the truth is not in any one man that's it the Holy Spirit that reveals the truth from the word not outside the word. .... No man is infallible.

There is no entitlement in title... It is walk not church title or name that guarantees access to the deep things of God so stop being childish and defend your position with personal conviction.... Stop posting links of other ps opinion... If you want me to engage them bring those persons here to come and defend their opinion

you come across as someone with memory challenge. You tend to forget your position on an issue too easily.

9inches:

Who are the Church

Nodogragra4me:
’ After the Apostles’ that says it all. After the Apostles they now believed differently and preached another gospel outside of the scriptures. I won't follow the ’after the apostles’ crowd.

Is the King James Version saying something different from the New Jerusalem Bible, did the version add any thing to what is in your church Bible?

Your strong point is in history and the problem with history is that everybody has a version of it but Bible has no version.. It is the message in different languages.

You have been angling for history but I won't give you that pleasure...stick with the Bible

9inches:


This is so good, I have you attacking the Word of God. I hope every member of your church sees this, including your pastor.

9inches:


The Lord purchased the church "with his own blood" (Acts 20:28).
Christ is "the head of the body, the church" (Colossians 1:18).
"And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all" (Ephesians 1:22-23).

9inches:


the Apostles and the prophets are the foundation (Rev 21:14);
Christ is the Head, or Cornerstone (or foundation stone or keystone) [Isaiah 28:16].

9inches:


Just so you understand it easier, the church already existed and have been teaching by oral tradition before the New Testament was written, not the other way round.

9inches:


The church through the apostles produced the NT scripture as part of her role in evangelization.

9inches:


The protestant mantra is to take the product of the church (NT) while disregarding and discrediting the church whose product they use.

9inches:


If the church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15), how then can someone or group of people exist outside the church and still claim to teach the truth? How absurd!

9inches:


It probably hasn't crossed your mind that even the NT scripture was oral tradition (most of which has been taught orally by the apostles) before it was written down to become NT scripture. Therefore, the NT is a product of the oral tradition which protestants think they can do away with and still teach the truth.

9inches:


How can you pick up the bible which the successors of the apostles collected, sorted and canonized; and run with it without considering the successors of the apostles who collected, sorted and canonized it. Tell me, how can you claim a more accurate knowledge of that bible than those successors of the apostles?

9inches:


Christ himself is the truth, and the fact that Christ is the foundation stone (cornerstone, keystone) of the church (Ephesians 2:20), that makes the church the foundation of truth (1 Tim 1:15). It essentially means you can't find the whole truth outside the church.

9inches:


Now, do you still wonder why there are over 33,000 denominations who are struggling with truth? Can you unabashedly say Christ recognizes these 33,000 churches? Can you say they are all one church, one Body with Christ as the Head? Think!

9inches:


@bolded, simple research would have saved you this embarrassment you have caused yourself. Now I have quoted you and it stays here till internet eternity! The Church is considered to be a mother to its members because it is the Bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:21-33, Revelation 19:7, Galatians 4:26). Apostle Paul sees it for what it is - the Bride of Christ, the Mother from whose womb of grace each of us was born to a new life a life of Sonship. "I wanted you to know, how people ought to behave in God's family that is, in the Church of the living God, which holds the truth and keeps it safe" (I Tim. 3:15). So Yes, Holy Mother Church proclaims, declares, explains and keeps the truth safe from the reach of the Enemy.

9inches:
This is so good, I have you attacking the Word of God. I hope every member of your church sees this, including your pastor.

The Lord purchased the church "with his own blood" (Acts 20:28).
Christ is "the head of the body, the church" (Colossians 1:18).
"And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all" (Ephesians 1:22-23).
Stop hardening your heart to the Word of God, the traditions of the Apostles and the early Christians. Abandon your Martin Luther's tradition. “Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts, as you did in the rebellion" (Hebrews 3:15).


We the Gentiles who are now fellow citizens with the holy ones (Israelites, God's special people [Deut 7:6, Deut 14:2, Rom 9:4])
and members of the household of God (angels [Hebrews 12:22-23])
are the different members of the Body of Christ - the Church [Col 1:24, 1 Cor 12:27-28, Rom 12:4-5];
the Apostles and the prophets are the foundation (Rev 21:14);
Christ is the Head, or Cornerstone (or foundation stone or keystone) [Isaiah 28:16].

Key Points
(Ephesians 23-32) The church is Christ's bride.
(Ephesians 4:15) "Rather, living the truth in love, we should grow in every way into him who is the head (of the church), Christ, from whom the whole body (the church), joined and held together by every supporting ligament (different gifts and functions), with the proper functioning of each part, brings about the body’s (church's) growth and builds itself up in love.

Just so you understand it easier, the church already existed and have been teaching by oral tradition before the New Testament was written, not the other way round. The church through the apostles produced the NT scripture as part of her role in evangelization. The protestant mantra is to take the product of the church (NT) while disregarding and discrediting the church whose product they use. If the church is the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15), how then can someone or group of people exist outside the church and still claim to teach the truth? How absurd!

It probably hasn't crossed your mind that even the NT scripture was oral tradition (most of which has been taught orally by the apostles) before it was written down to become NT scripture. Therefore, the NT is a product of the oral tradition which protestants think they can do away with and still teach the truth.

How can you pick up the bible which the successors of the apostles collected, sorted and canonized; and run with it without considering the successors of the apostles who collected, sorted and canonized it. Tell me, how can you claim a more accurate knowledge of that bible than those successors of the apostles?

Christ himself is the truth, and the fact that Christ is the foundation stone (cornerstone, keystone) of the church (Ephesians 2:20), that makes the church the foundation of truth (1 Tim 1:15). It essentially means you can't find the whole truth outside the church. Now, do you still wonder why there are over 33,000 denominations who are struggling with truth? Can you unabashedly say Christ recognizes these 33,000 churches? Can you say they are all one church, one Body with Christ as the Head? Think!

@bolded, simple research would have saved you this embarrassment you have caused yourself. Now I have quoted you and it stays here till internet eternity! The Church is considered to be a mother to its members because it is the Bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:21-33, Revelation 19:7, Galatians 4:26). Apostle Paul sees it for what it is - the Bride of Christ, the Mother from whose womb of grace each of us was born to a new life a life of Sonship. "I wanted you to know, how people ought to behave in God's family that is, in the Church of the living God, which holds the truth and keeps it safe" (I Tim. 3:15). So Yes, holy Mother Church proclaims, declares, explains and keeps the truth safe from the reach of the Enemy.

Keep reveling in your naivety and arrogance, attacking the Body of Christ,the pillar and foundation of truth; don't go and read church history from Christ to when you got your bible.

9inches:
Someone is scared of the truth he might discover from studying the history of his bible.

Nodogragra4me:
Mr. Saint is a title for God's people while they are here ... You don't want me to flood this thread with all scripture where the word is found. Everyone that calls the name of the Lord is saved and is a saint. Whosoever believeth is a saint .. stop adding to the Scripture. Any Christian is a full saint not partial saint and is to be called same without any official Decoration

Ubenedictus:
so after they leave earth they can nolonger be called "holy one "?

talk with wisdom and not prejudice

Ubenedictus:
so after they leave earth they can nolonger be called "holy one "?

talk with wisdom and not prejudice

Nodogragra4me:
I don't have the time for the table tennis argument. You win but remember that there is no where in the scripture supports your relationship with the saints you claim lives in heaven and prays or answers your prayers.

Jesus is the only way to the father... He said so himself... Saints live here and need prayers...they are not some prayer warriors in heaven... Angels don't pray, they are messengers, ministering spirits sent out of heaven to meet needs not to pray

Nodogragra4me:
Sainthood is not a chieftaincy title a cone cap wearing character travels to confer on some dead persons after many years. It is a title that is automatic on all who have separated themselves as Gods people, here on the earth.

You don win, saints lives in heaven but they are not your prayer partners. The saints the scripture knows have prayers and material needs and face challenges here on the earth whereas your own saints are ensconced in heaven as alternate Jesus with full omnipresent capacity to be everywhere like Jesus Christ.

Ubenedictus:
lol, the cone head people do no confer sainthood as a chieftaincy title, instead they are representative of the entire church recognising the sanctity of life of a fellow Christian. The practice comes from the early church that recognised a martyr and saints, that is why it is good to read up Christian history so as not to talk anyhow, condemning what you do not understand.

Saints certainly lived in heaven and are members of Christ's body, as such there is also a fellowship with them. They are not alternative to Jesus, they are members of his body praying for other members

Ubenedictus:
Then you agree that we do not stop being the "Holy ones" when we get to heaven.

Ubenedictus:


As for intercession, can the hand say to the feet I don't need you? The Saints in heaven are members of the same one family. They can't help but pray and cheer for us.

As for angels, In the Scripture we find prayers addressed to the angels asking them to pray with us, as in the opening verses of Psalms 148: "Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the heavens, praise him in the heights! Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host!"

Ubenedictus:


The Bible also indicates that angels do pray for us. Jesus himself warned us not to offend small children because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 18:1

Ubenedictus:


Verses in Revelation show the angels joining in prayers for us: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (vv. 8:3–4).

Ubenedictus:


so how does that bother you that I am surrounded by such great a cloud of witnesses, cheering for me in the race.

It will also help you to read your Bible with understanding, Jesus is the sole way to the father and in Christ all Christians are united as one body, that is why we can interceed for each other

Nodogragra4me:


I have told you that I do not intend to continue with a back and forth argument on something you are yet to provide scriptural proof for.



If you find it in that very scripture, then you also find the moon and waters and fires asked to pray for you or you mean to claim it is only the angels that was mentioned in your own version of the Bible. When meanings are not clear, start from the beginning and go beyond your focus... The summary of psalm 148 is this: let the heavens...heavens not heaven and the earth and all that is in it praise the Lord. Here is the complete verse since yours is not complete... Show me where the angles were ask to pray with us or for us, in the entire chapter


"1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights. 2 Praise ye him, all his [1] angels: praise ye him, all his hosts. 3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light. 4 Praise him, [2] ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens. 5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for [3] he commanded, and they were created. 6 [4]He hath also stablished them for ever and ever: he hath made a decree which shall not pass. 7 Praise the LORD from the earth, [5] ye dragons, and all deeps: 8 Fire, and hail; snow, and vapour; stormy wind fulfilling his word: 9 [6]Mountains, and all hills; fruitful trees, and all cedars: 10 Beasts, and all cattle; creeping things, and flying fowl: 11 Kings of the earth, and all people; princes, and [7] all judges of the earth: 12 Both young men, and maidens; old men, and children: 13 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for [8] his name alone is excellent; his glory is above the earth and heaven. 14 He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his saints; even of the children of Israel, [9] a people near unto him. Praise ye the LORD." (AV, Psalms 148:1-14)






adding your opinion everywhere won't give it credibility...Go and read the scriptures again but slowly. It didn't indicate that any angle do prsy for you... The very one you have picked out never said they pray for you.. There are ministering angels for little babies... God expects you to grow hence the scripture that says you should desire the sincere milk of the word so you can grow thereby





YOU are not a smart person and I doubt if you have core understanding... Your very scripture says HE WAS GIVEN INCENSE TO MINGLE WITH THE PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS.... THE PRAYERS OF THE SAINTS.... AT WHAT point did he start praying for you in that very verse, point out where he assumed the praying...... He was given to perform the protocol established in heaven... He was given.. He didn't pray.... He was given and he was considering according to instruction....angles are servants..they are ministers of God instruction. You are yet to find an escape... You are dull in reasoning out the scripture because you are trying to do it like the Ethiopian eunuch...with the intellect




What you have posted from the scripture never alluded to anyone cheering you in your race.

See your closing remark.. A personal opinion of what you think is in the scripture not really what is in the scripture... Interecessor are fellow saints..saints here...fellow Christians not a make believe Mary, or angel Gabriel or saints in heaven

Ubenedictus:
so this is what happens when you discuss with people who can't speak in a polite manner, end up with insults.

Oya thank for that. I don't have precious time to waste with someone who can't control his words

Nodogragra4me:
I have exercised more than enough patience with you and the other guy but it comes to a state where I am beginning to wonder how you reason: you opened psalm 148 and declared that it indicate that angles are praying with us or for us and I copied the entire chapter and ask you to point out where you saw that then you went to revelation and declared same... I am not a fan of deliberate idiocy and shortsighted understanding of the scripture


Every single scripture you And your alter-ego has brought forward I have had to explain to you two. Doesn't that tell you something?

As for time, I have surplus of it if it is about the word of God.

I will copy the link to this thread to other threads sometime and let others with better understanding and grasp of the scriptures join the discourse

9inches:


So you're still arguing if saints on earth retain their sainthood in heaven... Scriptural relativism is your problem, my friend. You clearly have no one to teach you the Word of God correctly. You're here trying to bismirch the church of the Apostles - the body of Christ. Good luck with that.

Nodogragra4me:
I don't have the time for the table tennis argument. You win but remember that there is no where in the scripture supports your relationship with the saints you claim lives in heaven and prays or answers your prayers.

Jesus is the only way to the father... He said so himself... Saints live here and need prayers...they are not some prayer warriors in heaven... Angels don't pray, they are messengers, ministering spirits sent out of heaven to meet needs not to pray

9inches:


So you're still arguing if saints on earth retain their sainthood in heaven... Scriptural relativism is your problem, my friend. You clearly have no one to teach you the Word of God correctly. You're here trying to bismirch the church of the Apostles - the body of Christ. Good luck with that.