damosky12:


Ok. Thanks for the blessed compliments.
I quoted from the Surah

See this:.

"A Surah is the term for a chapter of the Quran . There are 114 surahs in the Quran, 86 are classified as Makki, while 28 are Madini..."

Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surah


Can you please enlighten Wikipedia


BTW, I gave my evidence.


Again, I repeat,
Please, if you have any Quranic verse that authenticates the death and resurrection of Christ for mankind, kindly reply me with them.

Anyone can contribute to the Surat, but not the Quran.

You should stop making conclusive statement since you haven't read the Quran yourself

expert234:

Anyone can contribute to the Surat, but not the Quran.

You should stop making conclusive statement since you haven't read the Quran yourself

Stop the jamborees. Spare me the vain mentions, my friend. .

Yet again, I repeat, if you have any Quranic verse that authenticates the death and resurrection of Christ for mankind, kindly reply me with them.

If you don't, bye.

damosky12:



Stop the jamborees. Spare me the vain mentions, my friend. .

Yet again, I repeat, if you have any Quranic verse that authenticates the death and resurrection of Christ for mankind, kindly reply me with them.

If you don't, bye.

Go find out yourself. Stop arguing blindly on things you are not 100% sure about. It's outrightly senseless. You have no moral justification to talk about Islam until you read the Quran from cover to cover

expert234:


Go find out yourself. Stop arguing blindly on things you are not 100% sure about. It's outrightly senseless. You have no moral justification to talk about Islam until you read the Quran from cover to cover

All you have done so far is to rant and spew some apparent incoherence.

I have you glaring facts.

You have shown nothing. Yet, you want to be taken seriously.

You obviously will make a good comedian

damosky12:



All you have done so far is to rant and spew some apparent incoherence.

I have you glaring facts.

You have shown nothing. Yet, you want to be taken seriously.

You obviously will make a good comedian

All you have done is empty blind ranting. Show evidence that Quran doesn't believe in Jesus Christ, but you can't because you don't know. Yet you keep on arguing as if you have read every page of the Quran. Blind, baseless argument only makes people sound stupid

paxonel:
concerning the Romans 9:23-24 I brought, I was only asking you a question, are the phrases"OBJECT OF HIS MERCY" and "EVEN US" one and the same thing?
I expected a straightforward answer of yes or no.

what is vague in asking a question?
In summary, you have agreed that the phrases"OBJECT OF HIS MERCY" and "EVEN US" in the context of Romans 9:23-24 refers to one and the same thing?

Yes or no?

The "OBJECT OF MERCY" and "EVEN US" as used in the context are not same. Why unsaid your submission was vague was because one thing led to the bible verse you quoted which started from the earlier verses. I was expecting you to have also made references to those earlier verses especially from verse 6 of that chapter but you didn't. The Objects of mercy were those whom God had prepared for his glory. These were those to whom Christ was preached and accepted Him. The "EVEN US" described the Jews and Gentiles including paul himself ( who were mainly persecutors). They were always antagonistic to the teachings of the gospel and anything linked to Jesus Christ. As a matter of fact, the bible made us understand that these jews and gentiles were known for killing and unleashing injuries on Christians who preached gospel at that time. Paul fitted in this category of people (that is, the jews and gentiles) but also saved by jesus christ on his way to damascus. In summary, the object of mercy were those who never believed in christ but were preached to( God had mercy on them and called them to Himself)...and they in turn, embraced and believed on Him....paul and co. who were called out among these persecutors ( the jews and gentiles ) were counted among those whom God had shown mercy and have prepared for His glory. If you say paul and co were also counted among the object of mercy because they ended up knowing the truth, though in a harsh way( Christ met Paul in his way to damascus to persecute Christians as usual, remember ) , I'd say yes.

Let me tell you a story. A pastor came to preach whilst I was still in ibadan in those days. He said he and jesus were enemies and he never liked to be in a gathering where jesus' name was being mentioned and he used to make mockery of Christians. He said he was an armed robber and he used to kill for fun. He said he never spared his victims in all their operations..even if all members in his gang refused to shoot his victims, he must ensure he killed all of them before leaving, even after a successful operation. He said one day, they didn't have a field day in a northern town and they apprehended them after his bullets finished . They were 5 in number and they took a 6 inch nail and hammered deep down their brain ine after the other and said they should allow them go and die slowly. He said when he got to a desolate place, he fell down and passed out. Suddenly a man appeared to him in a white regalia, inserted his hand into his brain and was mending it in that realn and said he wanted to use him so he's time wasn't up yet that, he should turn to him because he's the saviour. By the time he woke up, blood had filled his face and body . All his accomplice died a few minutes later. When he woke up, he saw a couple coming from the opposite detection and they took him to the hospital. The dr said he might not survive it after he removed the nail. Amazingly, days later, he was still alive. While in the hospital, he saw the same man in a white apparel in his sleep who came to mend the brain as did the first time. In short he was perfectly ok and later enrolled in a bible school, now he's a preacher of the gospel. This man could be likened to those in the group of EVEN US. While the OBJECT OF MERCY were the Christians whom he was persecuting while he was still an armed robber.

expert234:

Lol. You keep on quoting and quoting. In your eyes now, you think you have knowledge, abi?

But, you said no true muslim wld kill a Christian so I gave you koranic verses that commands Muslims to kill Christians. Have you now seen that any true muslim who does not kill Christians is not a true muslim?

expert234:

Do you know how many times the Bible also preaches destruction against people who are of different beliefs? Hope you won't deceive yourself that the Bible didn't command the destruction of unbelievers too?

As simple as it gets, pls mention instances where you have heard or seen Christian militia walking into mosques or Muslim homes shouting 'Jesus is Lord' while they blow the places up, or shoot people or burn them to dead.

I need Time, places and and the names of the Christian groups.

expert234:

Imagine the rubbish you said about food for children not for dogs! What a shame. What manner of spiritual arrogance and blindness! So anyone who isn't a member of your church is a dog?! No wonder many so-called Christians will end up in hell.

Lol. Shey your father dey leave to pay your school fees but pays for the vagabonds who cause trouble in your neighborhood? Food is Children's bread, not for dogs. if E pain you, quarrel with Jesus Christ.

expert234:

Those Muslims that help others, don't they have their own responsibilities too?

Lol. You know what amazes me? I have never seen or heard that a Christian is pretending to be a Muslim, but why does Muslims especially the Yoruba Muslims keep pretending to be Christians? immediately they begin talking we discover their lies.

Why didn't you go to the mosque to beg for school fees? why did you go to the church? You heard that the Church is where people go to collect money abi?

expert234:

You need urgent deliverance from Spiritual Arrogance.

You wouldn't know what Spiritually is, not to talk of how one can be arrogance in the spirit. The truth is bitter my friend, deal with it.

expert234:

Calling yourself a Christian doesn't make you a Christian. "By their fruits you shall know them". I think you need to go through 1Corinthians 13 and Matthew 25:35-46. I doubt, however, if your spiritual arrogance will allow you to read those bible verses.

All I needed to show you is that, you can't serve YHWH and still hold on to another god, that wld mean fornication.
You jumped in to prove to me that one can join both gods and still be acceptable by YHWH abi?

You are a fornicator.


I'm done here.

expert234:


All you have done is empty blind ranting. Show evidence that Quran doesn't believe in Jesus Christ, but you can't because you don't know. Yet you keep on arguing as if you have read every page of the Quran. Blind, baseless argument only makes people sound stupid

For the last time, I'll assume you are just a slow learner...

Here is what your Quran says in Surah 4.

Sura 4:157-158: " They [the Jews] slew him[Jesus] not nor crucified [him], but it appeared so unto them...they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain, But Allah took him up unto Himself."


Surah is not different from the Quran. It means CHAPTER in the Quranic books...

"A Surah is the term for a chapter of the Quran.There are 114 surahs in the Quran,"

Source:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surah


If indeed you do not have the gift of comprehension or you are just being conspicuously dishonest, then feel free to quote me without evidence.

Selah.

damosky12:



For the last time, I'll assume you are just a slow learner...


Sura 4:157-158: " They [the Jews] slew him[Jesus] not nor crucified [him], but it appeared so unto them...they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain, But Allah took him up unto Himself."


Surah is not different from the Quran. It means CHAPTER in the Quranic books...

"A Surah is the term for a chapter of the Quran.There are 114 surahs in the Quran,"

Source:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surah


If indeed you do not have the gift of comprehension or you are just being conspicuously dishonest, then feel free to quote me without evidence.

Selah.

I didn't read the trash you post up there. If you haven't read the Quran, then you aren't qualified to talk about Islam. Only idiots base their arguments on third party narratives

expert234:


I didn't read the trash you post up there. If you haven't read the Quran, then you aren't qualified to talk about Islam. Only idiots base their arguments on third party narratives

I said "
If indeed you do not have the gift of comprehension or you are just being conspicuously dishonest, then feel free to quote me without evidence."


I am convinced.

expert234:


All you have done is empty blind ranting. Show evidence that Quran doesn't believe in Jesus Christ, but you can't because you don't know. Yet you keep on arguing as if you have read every page of the Quran. Blind, baseless argument only makes people sound stupid

Didn't you say you were a Christian?

expert234:


I didn't read the trash you post up there. If you haven't read the Quran, then you aren't qualified to talk about Islam. Only idiots base their arguments on third party narratives

But, why didn't you read what he posted?

You asked him to provide the place where the koran talks abt the dead of Jesus, he did but you won't read it?

fairfora:
The "OBJECT OF MERCY" and "EVEN US" as used in the context are not same. Why unsaid your submission was vague was because one thing led to the bible verse you quoted which started from the earlier verses. I was expecting you to have also made references to those earlier verses especially from verse 6 of that chapter but you didn't. The Objects of mercy were those whom God had prepared for his glory. These were those to whom Christ was preached and accepted Him. The "EVEN US" described the Jews and Gentiles including paul himself ( who were mainly persecutors). They were always antagonistic to the teachings of the gospel and anything linked to Jesus Christ. As a matter of fact, the bible made us understand that these jews and gentiles were known for killing and unleashing injuries on Christians who preached gospel at that time. Paul fitted in this category of people (that is, the jews and gentiles) but also saved by jesus christ on his way to damascus. In summary, the object of mercy were those who never believed in christ but were preached to( God had mercy on them and called them to Himself)...and they in turn, embraced and believed on Him....paul and co. who were called out among these persecutors ( the jews and gentiles ) were counted among those whom God had shown mercy and have prepared for His glory. If you say paul and co were also counted among the object of mercy because they ended up knowing the truth, though in a harsh way( Christ met Paul in his way to damascus to persecute Christians as usual, remember ) , I'd say yes.

in all you have written you still fail the answer to the question you know why?
Because you never consider time.
As at the time Paul persecuted Christians till the time of his encounter with Jesus on his way to Damascus he never wrote any epistle talkless of writting Romans 9:23. As at the time he wrote Romans 9:23 he was already a believer of Christ and was no more a persecutor of Christians, therefore when he said "EVEN US" he included himself as a believer at the time he wrote the scripture, that he himself(including all believers) were OBJECT OF GOD'S MERCY.
So, OBJECT OF GOD'S MERCY and EVEN US(including Paul) are the same thing. They both referred to believers of Christ at the time the scripture was written.

Now that you have failed the question it shows that you lark understanding of scriptures and that is exactly what i wanted to know by diverting away from the original scripture(1cor 5:1) to Rom 9:23-24

The point is, just like Paul used the term EVEN US in place of OBJECT OF MERCY in Romans 9:23-24, that is how he also used ONE SLEEPING WITH HIS FATHER'S WIFE in place of FORNICATION in 1 Corinthians 5:1

It takes thinking(meditation) to understand certain scriptures, that is what you failed to do.

Let me tell you a story. A pastor came to preach whilst I was still in ibadan in those days. He said he and jesus were enemies and he never liked to be in a gathering where jesus' name was being mentioned and he used to make mockery of Christians. He said he was an armed robber and he used to kill for fun. He said he never spared his victims in all their operations..even if all members in his gang refused to shoot his victims, he must ensure he killed all of them before leaving, even after a successful operation. He said one day, they didn't have a field day in a northern town and they apprehended them after his bullets finished . They were 5 in number and they took a 6 inch nail and hammered deep down their brain ine after the other and said they should allow them go and die slowly. He said when he got to a desolate place, he fell down and passed out. Suddenly a man appeared to him in a white regalia, inserted his hand into his brain and was mending it in that realn and said he wanted to use him so he's time wasn't up yet that, he should turn to him because he's the saviour. By the time he woke up, blood had filled his face and body . All his accomplice died a few minutes later. When he woke up, he saw a couple coming from the opposite detection and they took him to the hospital. The dr said he might not survive it after he removed the nail. Amazingly, days later, he was still alive. While in the hospital, he saw the same man in a white apparel in his sleep who came to mend the brain as did the first time. In short he was perfectly ok and later enrolled in a bible school, now he's a preacher of the gospel. This man could be likened to those in the group of EVEN US. While the OBJECT OF MERCY were the Christians whom he was persecuting while he was still an armed robber.

the goodnews is, today the man is a pastor.
Now assuming he is asked to put to writing his present state(not the time he was an armed robber and he hated Jesus), certainly the man will write that as a pastor EVEN ME, I am an OBJECT OF MERCY.
That is what Paul did when he wrote Romans 9:23 categorizing himself among belivers saying EVEN US.
He did the writing at the time we was not persecuting Christians anymore, at the time he was a believer.

So understand the time difference.

paxonel:
in all you have written you still fail the answer to the question you know why?
Because you never consider time.
As at the time Paul persecuted Christians till the time of his encounter with Jesus on his way to Damascus he never wrote any epistle talkless of writting Romans 9:23. As at the time he wrote Romans 9:23 he was already a believer of Christ and was no more a persecutor of Christians, therefore when he said "EVEN US" he included himself as a believer at the time he wrote the scripture, that he himself(including all believers) were OBJECT OF GOD'S MERCY.
So, OBJECT OF GOD'S MERCY and EVEN US(including Paul) are the same thing. They both referred to believers of Christ at the time the scripture was written.

Now that you have failed the question it shows that you lark understanding of scriptures and that is exactly what i wanted to know by diverting away from the original scripture(1cor 5:1) to Rom 9:23-24

The point is, just like Paul used the term EVEN US in place of OBJECT OF MERCY in Romans 9:23-24, that is how he also used ONE SLEEPING WITH HIS FATHER'S WIFE in place of FORNICATION in 1 Corinthians 5:1

It takes thinking(meditation) to understand certain scriptures, that is what you failed to do.
the goodnews is, today the man is a pastor.
Now assuming he is asked to put to writing his present state(not the time he was an armed robber and he hated Jesus), certainly the man will write that as a pastor EVEN ME, I am an OBJECT OF MERCY.
That is what Paul did when he wrote Romans 9:23 categorizing himself among belivers saying EVEN US.
He did the writing at the time we was not persecuting Christians anymore, at the time he was a believer.

So understand the time difference.

I knew where you were driving at and the word of God cannot be twisted. I've replied you on what paul said about the "object of mercy" and..."even us". I even gave you an instance. Paul and those he referred to as "US" in the bible were once gentiles and jews who were once persecutors and not counted worthy of the object of mercy but by God's grace which found them and counted them among "the object of mercy". Who are these object of mercy as referred to by paul? Those are the saints who are heaven-bound, whom God himself has prepared for his glory. But because God had said he would have mercy on whom he would have mercy, paul and others were counted worthy despite where he came from(ie from among jews and gentiles who were persecutors of Christians )...read from verse 13 upward to understand better, instead of concentrating on the verse you quoted, which was vague.

Now, coming to your issue on fornication which was why you're trying to twist the bible, paul was admonishing his people( including those who had at one time accepted christ but backslid). The bible recorded that after christ rose to heaven, people's faith became cold. Some went back to idolatry and various sins which were a commonplace among the gentiles or unbelievers), that those things done by the gentiles must not be found among them anymore as reported.... and one of those things the gentiles were doing at that time which his people were also found doing was...sleeping with their dad's wives. Paul said it mustn't be reported among them anymore.

Take up your bible and read this verse a hundred times. It's not same as paul or bible supporting fornication. Good morning

expert234:


Will it interest you to know that true Muslims believe in Jesus Christ?

I can also authoritatively tell you that Shaitan and all the Jinns believe in Jesus too...they only don't follow Him. Do you follow Jesus?

expert234:


Will it interest you to know that true Muslims believe in Jesus Christ?

Certainly you don't know what that means!

Jesus was a Jewish carpenter in the first century.

But when you add the title Christ, then you are saying he is the only begotten son of God as in the one and only person who can tell humans how to please God well, whose teachings you must strictly adhere to before you can stand guiltless on the day of judgment!

So now, do you agree with that?

fairfora:
I knew where you were driving at and the word of God cannot be twisted.

unfortunately, scriptures were twisted by people known as bible scholars far back at the periods dominated by the ancient catholic church. This twisted scriptures forms doctrines and doctrines that are still thought in churches today, and that is what i seek to correct.
For instance, the church still teaches that people that have not wedded should not be called husband and wife inspite that they already have children.
To be sincere, will you call your brother who has not wedded an unmarried man inspite that he is living with a woman who has given birth to children for him?
I am asking you.
Because, the law recognizes the woman as his wife, so long children are involved.

I've replied you on what paul said about the "object of mercy" and..."even us". I even gave you an instance. Paul and those he referred to as "US" in the bible were once gentiles and jews who were once persecutors and not counted worthy of the object of mercy but by God's grace which found them and counted them among "the object of mercy". Who are these object of mercy as referred to by paul? Those are the saints who are heaven-bound, whom God himself has prepared for his glory. But because God had said he would have mercy on whom he would have mercy, paul and others were counted worthy despite where he came from(ie from among jews and gentiles who were persecutors of Christians )...read from verse 13 upward to understand better, instead of concentrating on the verse you quoted, which was vague.

this still do not dispute the fact that Paul has become one of the believers as at the time he wrote the scripture.

Now, coming to your issue on fornication which was why you're trying to twist the bible, paul was admonishing his people( including those who had at one time accepted christ but backslid). The bible recorded that after christ rose to heaven, people's faith became cold. Some went back to idolatry and various sins which were a commonplace among the gentiles or unbelievers), that those things done by the gentiles must not be found among them anymore as reported.... and one of those things the gentiles were doing at that time which his people were also found doing was...sleeping with their dad's wives. Paul said it mustn't be reported among them anymore.

Take up your bible and read this verse a hundred times. It's not same as paul or bible supporting fornication. Good morning

a hundred times or a thousand times will still point out the same thing that you have rightly pointed, that fornication was common among the gentiles but Paul condemned it among Christians in 1 Corinthians 5:1. So, i do not dispute against the fact that the sin was common among gentiles.
What I'm interested is, how do today Christians define fornication?
Do they defined fornication based on the idea the ancient catholic church indoctrinated people with, or they are defining it based on the knowledge of scriptures?
I don't think today Christians are defining fornication based on the knowledge of scriptures and that is affecting their current lives negatively. Otherwise, i will not even bother at all to attempt to correct it.

People who ignorantly developed the doctrine they have all died a long time ago. Christians today will now believe the doctrine and it is affecting their lives negatively today.
They just have to do something about it, because like Christ will say, all powers have been given to them.
They have the power to change any faulty doctrine in order to help them think straight this modern day.

paxonel:
unfortunately, scriptures were twisted by people known as bible scholars far back at the periods dominated by the ancient catholic church. This twisted scriptures forms doctrines and doctrines that are still thought in churches today, and that is what i seek to correct.
For instance, the church still teaches that people that have not wedded should not be called husband and wife inspite that they already have children.
To be sincere, will you call your brother who has not wedded an unmarried man inspite that he is living with a woman who has given birth to children for him?
I am asking you.
Because, the law recognizes the woman as his wife, so long children are involved.
this still do not dispute the fact that Paul has become one of the believers as at the time he wrote the scripture.
a hundred times or a thousand times will still point out the same thing that you have rightly pointed, that fornication was common among the gentiles but Paul condemned it among Christians in 1 Corinthians 5:1. So, i do not dispute against the fact that the sin was common among gentiles.
What I'm interested is, how do today Christians define fornication?
Do they defined fornication based on the idea the ancient catholic church indoctrinated people with, or they are defining it based on the knowledge of scriptures?
I don't think today Christians are defining fornication based on the knowledge of scriptures and that is affecting their current lives negatively. Otherwise, i will not even bother at all to attempt to correct it.

People who ignorantly developed the doctrine they have all died a long time ago. Christians today will now believe the doctrine and it is affecting their lives negatively today.
They just have to do something about it, because like Christ will say, all powers have been given to them.
They have the power to change any faulty doctrine in order to help them think straight this modern day.

I agree with you to some extent . Especially on the contents of the old and new testaments. Tithes being mentioned in the old testament in few places but never mentioned in the new testament because jesus christ was concerned with the sinful life of every individual, asking them to repent and be holy, preaching from cities to cities and on empty stomach most of the time. He wasn't bothered with how much tithes were being paid to church, which our men of God nowadays are hammering on, placing little emphasis on the core values of why they're called to save souls.

For example, I don't believe in the tithe because most times, what I give to the less privileged, including the widows and elderly was always more than the 10th of my profit in business. I donate offerings to church but I give much to those mentioned above. The scripture says when I was hungry, you fed me, when i was naked, you clothed me, etc and a question was asked...when did all these happen( I summarized it) and he replied, in as much as you have done all these to the least of my people, you've also done it for me...that's it. We should always seek the holy spirit's help to interpret the word of God to us all the time, because these men of God who are overwhelmed and preoccupied with worldly activists could lead one astray.

Pls are you a Christian bro?

fairfora:
I agree with you to some extent . Especially on the contents of the old and new testaments. Tithes being mentioned in the old testament in few places but never mentioned in the new testament because jesus christ was concerned with the sinful life of every individual, asking them to repent and be holy, preaching from cities to cities and in empty stomach most of the time. He wasn't bothered with how much tithes were being paid to church, which our men of God nowadays are hammering on, leaving the core values of why they're called to save souls.

For example, I don't believe in the tithe because most times, what I give to the less privileged, including the widows and elderly was always more than the 10th of my profit in business. I donate offerings to church but I give much to those mentioned above. The scripture says when I was hungry, you fed me, when i was naked, you clothed me, etc and a question was asked...when did all these happen( I summarised it) and he replied, in as much as you have done all these to the least of my people, you've also done it for me...that's it. We should always seek the holy spirit's help to interpret the word of God to us all the time, because these men of God who are overwhelmed and preoccupied with worldly activists could lead one astray.

Pls are you a Christian bro?

I'm a Christian, but i always scrutinize every message before making them my beliefs and principles so i am not like the conventional Christian common everywhere.
I believe in the dead and resurrection of Christ as my source of salvation,i am not perfect, i go to church but I'm a little careful.
Because, i understand that whatever believe system i have been inculcated with, they form the basis of who i am.
Having a picture of who i desire to be, i deliberately not accept any belief that will become antagonistic to my dream of eventually becoming that person.
Though everyone(including my pastor) sees me in church and think we are the same, but to me we are not

Take for instance, the tithe issue.
I keep asking questions, why will God not command the gentiles to pay tithe as well and yet salvation was for both the Jews and the gentiles alike?
Does the church not see that this an advantage to the gentiles?
They will say Christ has made us part of the common wealth of Israel therefore we are Jews.

You are Jews and you still speak Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo?

They will say i don't understand the things of the holy spirit.

Is money meant for tithe spirit or physical?
Because, according to characteristics of money as we all know in economics, it is portable, durable, uniformity, limited in supply, generally accepted.
Till tomorrow, the holy spirit is not even generally accepted.
C'mon who is playing the fool here?

I think the church is grossly lacking in intelligence, this is what i avoid to associate myself with

But the people, they are still friends and family, they were very helpful to me at the time of my humble beginning.

shadeyinka:

Sex and sexual activities outside the confines of marriage in any form including between bf and gf is fornication.

The bible recommend a solution to sexual pressures: Go Marry not get a gf or bf!

1 Cor 7:9: "But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn."

Which is why I will continue to speak out against spouses withholding sex in marriage because they are not in the 'mood' or lack of consent nonsense.

bukatyne:


Which is why I will continue to speak out against spouses withholding sex in marriage because they are not in the 'mood' or lack of consent nonsense.

This coming from a female gender is bliss.
Sex in marriage is like the engine oil in a vehicle. When the engine is not lubricated enough, the engine either wears out quickly or the engine of marriage of marriage knocks: a catastrophe!

I commend your response. I wish all women knew this.

SeniorAjoku1:
God bless you

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