Empiree:
All we need is time. There is always element of truth in the midst of joke. We really do not need mainstream confirmation. For onion to come up with this means they knew there is something in something. All we need is time. Besides, wetin be your own?. The dude already conceded to this fact. He did not object at all. So wetin be your own

You're missing the entire point with this pathetic fallback argument.

The Onion is a satirical site. In case you don't know, satire is absurd writing that's intended to be funny.

There's no "grain of truth", as much as I know you wish there is. Also, you're not thinking this through very well - nowhere did I say you should wait for mainstream confirmation. I only said it would have made news around the world. Didn't you stop to ask yourself why even news stations and publishing houses in the Arab world didn't publish it? Even the Taliban, Al-Qaeda and co made no statement about it.

No, you didn't. Because you were too caught up in your "gotcha!" excitement to take a pause and apply some logic.

Lastly, it doesn't matter that Usermane "conceded" it. He probably did so out of the confidence (mistaken, to my mind) that you're an intellectual whose sources should be given benefit of doubt.

I've cleared the air now and removed the error. So go engage on his facts and analysis as he laid out before you brought out this lie.

aadoiza:

I got it. But the US will do more to convince their hands are clean.

When you have evidence, let us know.

I don't traffic in emotional speculation. Only facts and logical analysis.

usermane:
Empyree's habitual damage control for Islam and Muslims



Yea, Saudi people no longer represent Islam. Everything good about Saudis is Islam, everything bad about them is not Islam. And anything good in the westerners is not Christianity, but anything bad about them is Christianity.



I know, right? Wait for the destruction of Arabs after they host Mariah Carey and WWE, and what else? Opened cinemas, and ...let women drive? What a load of damage control!

The bolded summarizes modern Islamic thought masked with hypocrisy,

najib632:
I would love to reply you but I have classed you in the same category with tintinz and that other hypocrite true2devil a.k.a. false2god. I Shall not waste my time upon people like you.

Bros take it easy with me; I never offended you. I will sue you for blackmail for calling me 'true2devil' and 'false2god'.

You need not transfer anger and aggression to me. 'usermane' seem to be too hot for you to handle; you have to engage him intellectually instead of dragging me, unnecessarily, into this discussion.

'Kpachara anya' bro!

true2god:
The bolded summarizes modern Islamic thought masked with hypocrisy,

I'm surprised not surprised actually if you recall 4-5 yrs ago during several debates, anything good in Arab world which were cited by some muslims, you, ifean among others would say it was CHRISTIANs and atheists that designed and built them but anything less than that that you dislike are from Arabs/muslims. That they know nothing but terror. Is it not the same thing being played out again?. I really don't want to go into details of this. Now you joined this dude calling us hypocrites when you know deep down the guy is sick ?. I'm really tired of contributions here now especially saying with invitation of Mariah is their destruction. Aren't Saudi authority done worst than that.

usermane:
Empyree's habitual damage control for Islam and Muslims

Yea, Saudi people no longer represent Islam. Everything good about Saudis is Islam, everything bad about them is not Islam. And anything good in the westerners is not Christianity, but anything bad about them is Christianity.

I know, right? Wait for the destruction of Arabs after they host Mariah Carey and WWE, and what else? Opened cinemas, and ...let women drive? What a load of damage control!

Empiree:
I'm surprised not surprised actually if you recall 4-5 yrs ago during several debates, anything good in Arab world which were cited by some muslims, you, ifean among others would say it was CHRISTIANs and atheists that designed and built them but anything less than that that you dislike are from Arabs/muslims. That they know nothing but terror. Is it not the same thing being played out again?. I really don't want to go into details of this. Now you joined this dude calling us hypocrites when you know deep down the guy is sick ?. I'm really tired of contributions here now especially saying with invitation of Mariah is their destruction. Aren't Saudi authority done worst than that.

Stop this diversion and be sincere for once. 'usermane' made a very valid point which is very consistent with Islamic and Arabian logic. If you find it very hard to decode I will explain it to you:

Anytime the Arab world do something significant, you praise Islam. Anytime they do something bad you never related it to Islam. And for the western nation, anytime they do something good, you never give Christianity any credit for their good deed, but anytime they do something bad, Muslims blame Christianity. This is a simple logic that is hard to understand among the Muslim ummah.

koonbey:


When you have evidence, let us know.

I don't traffic in emotional speculation. Only facts and logical analysis.

I believe you know how those buildings went down. If you do but still don't see that something was off, then I rest my case..

koonbey:


Lastly, it doesn't matter that Usermane "conceded" it. He probably did so out of the confidence (mistaken, to my mind) that you're an intellectual whose sources should be given benefit of doubt.

Peace.

I didn't concede anything. I admitted that I found out long ago that bin Laden denied a hand in 9/11. Muslim terrorists always admit if they are behind a terror attack. If bin Laden did not admit involvement, then I strongly feel he is not behind it.

But none of this is relevant to the question of bin Laden as a terrorist. 9/11 or no 9/11, bin Laden was part of Mullah Omar's Talibans. And the Talibans were oppressors, if not terrorists.

najib632:
I would love to reply you but I have classed you in the same category with tintinz and that other hypocrite true2devil a.k.a. false2god. I Shall not waste my time upon people like you.

Peace.

I wonder the response you had in mind especially concerning my critique on Islam or traditional Islam to be precise. The tables have completely turned. The days of concealing the weakness or darkness in Islam died with the birth of internet.

Thank God at least for these websites;

sunnah.com
quranx.com/Tafsirs/
corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?

Anyone lies about Islam now is easily exposed. The days of scholars concealing the facts from the public is long gone.

true2god:
Stop this diversion and be sincere for once. 'use.rmane' made a very valid point which is very consistent with Islamic and Arabian logic. If you find it very hard to decode I will explain it to you:

Anytime the Arab world do something significant, you praise Islam.

Birds of a feather. First all, kindly define what Arab world did significantly that I praised Islam for. Quote me. Also, what significant things they do, is it relate religion or materialism?. You need to clear this pls. For clarity, if anyone says the tallest building in the world is in Arab world. Why do you think i should praise Islam for this when islam itself says that tall buildings are some of the Signs of the Time?. So please dont just make blanket statement. If you can not quote me or give valid example, then you and him lied about me/us.

Anytime they do something bad you never related it to Islam.

This i can relate. If say for instance some arabs indulge in slave trade in 21 century now, you dont expect me to blame islam for it bcus Islam already put and end to this. You blame perpetrators. But you however would blame islam for what Arabs do. Talk about hypocrisy. Nonsense!

And for the western nation, anytime they do something good, you never give Christianity any credit for their good deed, but anytime they do something bad, Muslims blame Christianity. This is a simple logic that is hard to understand among the Muslim ummah.

First all, it is you people that never defined which side you on. You know very well that you have accused Western power and culture when they do somethig despicable like homosexualism and Monetrary system, military industrial complex etc. Anytime these things are mentioned you run away from them and take your christianity with you. But if they do something reasonable or beautiful things in their constitution like social benefits, you want to cite christianity but in reality you do not have much evidence in your Book linked to Jesus to back many good things in Western culture. Islam however has written detailed evidences of these social benefits. You rely on Common law or western law when they do great things. You never mentioned christianity. You never fully agreed Western culture was built on christianity. Rather you choose and pick what suits you from them. All their luxuries are not built on christianity but on secularism. So you can only use Vatican achievements not Western achievements. Otherwise i will keep playing games with your head up/down with regards to judeo/christian. You know the drill.

A simple google search will help you a lot. Type any phrase on google search if us or western culture is built on christian faith?. You get to see mixed answers with most percentage tells you it is built on democracy and freedom(secularism). But when they want to invade muslims countries, they obviously cite their religious text (Bible) called Bible which Jerry Falwell, Tim LaHaye, and Christian Coalition supported. So what's my own in this?

Empiree:
Birds of a feather. First all, kindly define what Arab world did significantly that I praised Islam for. Quote me. Also, what significant things they do, is it relate religion or materialism?. You need to clear this pls. For clarity, if anyone says the tallest building in the world is in Arab world. Why do you think i should praise Islam for this when islam itself says that tall buildings are some of the Signs of the Time?. So please dont just make blanket statement. If you can not quote me or give valid example, then you and him lied about me/us.

This is a thread created by your fellow ummah to hail 'muslim inventions', even though ,most of what he claim are false.
https://www.nairaland.com/1522898/muslim-inventions-shaped-modern-world

Muslims have, on Nairaland, consistently relate their progress to religion which is a lie, because the opposite is true.

Empiree:
This i can relate. If say for instance some arabs indulge in slave trade in 21 century now, you dont expect me to blame islam for it bcus Islam already put and end to this. You blame perpetrators. But you however would blame islam for what Arabs do. Talk about hypocrisy. Nonsense!

Stop lying bro. Slavery is an integral part of Islam and Islam never abolished slavery. The prophet of Islam, and his sahabas, are slave dealers; this information is in your hadith, your seerah and al-tabari. Why are you talking as if you dont know me? Why do you think you can 'bambooze' me?

Empiree:
First all, it is you people that never defined which side you on. You know very well that you have accused Western power and culture when they do somethig despicable like homosexualism and Monetrary system, military industrial complex etc. Anytime these things are mentioned you run away from them and take your christianity with you. But if they do something reasonable or beautiful things in their constitution like social benefits, you want to cite christianity but in reality you do not have much evidence in your Book linked to Jesus to back many good things in Western culture. Islam however has written detailed evidences of these social benefits. You rely on Common law or western law when they do great things. You never mentioned christianity. You never fully agreed Western culture was built on christianity. Rather you choose and pick what suits you from them. All their luxuries are not built on christianity but on secularism. So you can only use Vatican achievements not Western achievements. Otherwise i will keep playing games with your head up/down with regards to judeo/christian. You know the drill.

A simple google search will help you a lot. Type any phrase on google search if us or western culture is built on christian faith?. You get to see mixed answers with most percentage tells you it is built on democracy and freedom(secularism). But when they want to invade muslims countries, they obviously cite their religious text (Bible) called Bible which Jerry Falwell, Tim LaHaye, and Christian Coalition supported. So what's my own in this?

I seriously dont understand this long story. Christianity as a religion is against homosexuality and, though the western powers sanctioned Christianity as their official religion, there is religious and thought freedom in the western world. Muslims are allowed to build thousand of mosque in Europe and the US, while the Muslim world are destroying and bombing churches. If the christian west want to 'copy' the muslim arabs, I dont think Islam will be tolerated so much in the west.

Except Muslims, atheist and liberals (strange bed-fellows who are both mortal enemies to Christianity), other human being know, believe and understand that the current development, prosperity and abundance, in the west, were built as a result of Judaeo-christian values which give room for free enterprise and capitalism. Muslims hate the west but won't stop migrating to the west to enjoy material life which they hate; you can't eat your cake and have it but Muslims can. That's the irony of 'hypocrite Islam'. While I condemn the 'freedom' that has created the moral decline in the west, we must also appreciate the benevolent christian values which make their society stable and prosperous. Jesus did not come, unlike Mohammed, to create a theocratic society ruled by the Khalifas. He told his disciples 'my kingdom is not of this world'; Christianity, unlike Islam (quran 9:28-30), is not established to destroy or oppress other religions hence the 100% tolerance Muslims enjoy in the west. A Muslim can go to any western/christian country (even the Vatican) and criticize Jesus, the bible and Christians openly without consequence but if a christian criticizes Mohammed or Islam in any Muslim country, he will be killed or jailed.

Cool down bro and be sincere; at times your logic is inversely proportionally to commonsense.

true2god:
This is a thread created by your fellow ummah to hail 'muslim inventions', even though ,most of what he claim are false.
https://www.nairaland.com/1522898/muslim-inventions-shaped-modern-world

Muslims have, on Nairaland, consistently relate their progress to religion which is a lie, because the opposite is true.

Okay, good. I remembered this thread's headline but i dont recall my contribution. Upon opening the thread just now, yes, these inventions i like. Up Islam It is fact that Muslims are granddaddy of modern science. So this, I embrace islam for it not about silly tall building we argued about some 4 yrs ago. So yes, I give islam credit here.

Stop lying bro. Slavery is an integral part of Islam and Islam never abolished slavery. The prophet of Islam, and his sahabas, are slave dealers; this information is in your hadith, your seerah and al-tabari. Why are you talking as if you dont know me? Why do you think you can 'bambooze' me?

See what I am talking about?. You know very well Islam already cleared the air but you persistently lure islam and slavery together as if christianity is guilt free. Do you want me to bring abandoned arguments back from yrs ago?. That slavery predated Islam?. Why didnt Judeo/Christian terrorist abolished slavery before advent of MUhammad(SAW)?. Prophet MUhammad(SAW) met persistent of slavery trade embraced by Jews and christians. Do you want to get me started on this and you end up running away like you and ifean did years back?

I seriously dont understand this long story. Christianity as a religion is against homosexuality and, though the western powers sanctioned Christianity as their official religion, there is religious and thought freedom in the western world. Muslims are allowed to build thousand of mosque in Europe and the US, while the Muslim world are destroying and bombing churches....edit later.

Why are you shifting goal post? Who is currently bombing mosques and churches in the muslim world now?. Speak the truth bro. Those thugs in the muslim world that destroy churches and masajid are simply group(s) of people not muslim govt. But Judeo/christian terrorist govt bomb mosques. Also if christianity is against homosexuality, why not enforced biblical law Leviticus 20:13 Why is it that when muslim country like Brunei recently enforce punishment on homosexuality, christian world called is 'barbaric', 'no freedom' and all sorts of unprinted names?. But Israel and christian countries embraced homosexuality they called it freedom and democracy?. Although i wont hold you responsible fr this bcus i know your stance on this. But you can see clearly christianity is not against it. They have abandoned their religious Laws. Yet we have a guy here who claim to be "muslim" but support homosexual trash and you support him for your own selfish interest?.. THINK

Empiree:
Okay, good. I remembered this thread's headline but i dont recall my contribution. Upon opening the thread just now, yes, these inventions i like. Up Islam It is fact that Muslims are granddaddy of modern science. So this, I embrace islam for it not about silly tall building we argued about some 4 yrs ago. So yes, I give islam credit here.

See how you are contradicting yourself. You said you never attributed any development to Islam but you are here praising a propaganda thread opened to massage the depleted ego of the Arab and the Muslim world. If you go through the so-called 'inventions', over 80% has nothing to do with the Arabs or Islam. Why are you salivating over lies and falsehood? Is this how low you can go?

Empiree:
See what I am talking about?. You know very well Islam already cleared the air but you persistently lure islam and slavery together as if christianity is guilt free. Do you want me to bring abandoned arguments back from yrs ago?. That slavery predated Islam?. Why didnt Judeo/Christian terrorist abolished slavery before advent of MUhammad(SAW)?. Prophet MUhammad(SAW) met persistent of slavery trade embraced by Jews and christians. Do you want to get me started on this and you end up running away like you and ifean did years back?

I serious dont want to go back to the slavery and racism in islam but i will recommend that you go through the thread below, even though you avoided it like leprosy.
https://www.nairaland.com/4869910/islam-racism

The thread above will educate you more on the 'scripturally' institutionalized form of slavery in Islam and the Arab world. And you know what, this evil practice is sanctioned by Allah and his messenger, and also a sunnah of the prophet.

Empiree:
Why are you shifting goal post? Who is currently bombing mosques and churches in the muslim world now?. Speak the truth bro. Those thugs in the muslim world that destroy churches and masajid are simply group(s) of people not muslim govt. But Judeo/christian terrorist govt bomb mosques. Also if christianity is against homosexuality, why not enforced biblical law Leviticus 20:13 Why is it that when muslim country like Brunei recently enforce punishment on homosexuality, christian world called is 'barbaric', 'no freedom' and all sorts of unprinted names?. But Israel and christian countries embraced homosexuality they called it freedom and democracy?. Although i wont hold you responsible fr this bcus i know your stance on this. But you can see clearly christianity is not against it. They have abandoned their religious Laws. Yet we have a guy here who claim to be "muslim" but support homosexual trash and you support him for your own selfish interest?.. THINK

Who is bombing the Muslim world? Is Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Oman, Pakistan, Kuwait, Egypt, etc part of the muslim world? Is it the saudis that are bombing the Yemenis or the west? Is it the west that are bombing churches in Pakistan and Egypt or the west? The west has their fault but the Muslim world must also learn how to take responsibility for their actions. It is only a kid that will refuse to take responsibility for his mistake while pointing fingers at others. It is a known fact that the Khalifa were very brutal when Islam was powerful.

Do I need to remind you again that it is the so-called 'rightly' guided khalifas that killed the entire household of your dear prophet? I initially thought it was the US and the west that killed the household of Mohammed but after much research, I discovered it was fellow Muslims that killed the family of the Islamic prophet.

true2god:
See how you are contradicting yourself. You said you never attributed any development to Islam but you are here praising a propaganda thread opened to massage the depleted ego of the Arab and the Muslim world. If you go through the so-called 'inventions', over 80% has nothing to do with the Arabs or Islam. Why are you salivating over lies and falsehood? Is this how low you can go?

This was the reason i wanted clarification what you mean 'we attributed great things to islam'. Now that i have seen those great invention, like it or not, I am loving. My initial thought was you and the dude were referring to beautiful sceneries in the arab world like modern appearance of Mecca and Medina, burj Khalifa etc. These are not something to cause alarm. But now, yes, like it or not, those Islamic inventions were gold

I serious dont want to go back to the slavery and racism in islam but i will recommend that you go through the thread below, even though you avoided it like leprosy.
https://www.nairaland.com/4869910/islam-racism

Of Course you wouldnt bcuz you realized it is a case of black calling black black

The thread above will educate you more on the 'scripturally' institutionalized form of slavery in Islam and the Arab world. And you know what, this evil practice is sanctioned by Allah and his messenger, and also a sunnah of the prophet.

Since you backtracked from revisiting the issue, just let it slide. Else, i will go google gaga on christian slavery like i did years ago.

Who is bombing the Muslim world? Is Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Oman, Pakistan, Kuwait, Egypt, etc part of the muslim world? Is it the saudis that are bombing the Yemenis or the west? Is it the west that are bombing churches in Pakistan and Egypt or the west? The west has their fault but the Muslim world must also learn how to take responsibility for their actions. It is only a kid that will refuse to take responsibility for his mistake while pointing fingers at others. It is a known fact that the Khalifa were very brutal when Islam was powerful.

See hypocrisy and see how you switched?. We have raised this issue before about 2 wks ago. If you wanna revisit, I am available to google gaga on you.When i showed you a video before you simply claimed it was "propaganda". Kontinu

Do I need to remind you again that it is the so-called 'rightly' guided khalifas that killed the entire household of your dear prophet? I initially thought it was the US and the west that killed the household of Mohammed but after much research, I discovered it was fellow Muslims that killed the family of the Islamic prophet.

who are you trying to trick?. I noticed you said similar in the other guy's thread but i just brushed it aside. Throughout history of man starting from Adam(as), family members have always killed one another. How's that issue?. Even Jesus was allegedly killed by his own people. So what's your point. JFK was killed by his countryman. Luther king, Malcolm x were killed by their own countrymen. Come to nija, Dele Giwa was killed by his countrymen. Bola Ige was killed by his countrymen. Gandhi was killed by his countrymen. Murtala Muhammad was killed by his countrymen. So abeg, your point exactly?

true2god:
Bros take it easy with me; I never offended you. I will sue you for blackmail for calling me 'true2devil' and 'false2god'.

You think you're smart or what when you were saying may shit be upon the messenger of Allah you think you would go Scott free, infact if you do not sue me the pain your mother felt giving birth to you was a waste. You think you're so smart or what?

true2god:

You need not transfer anger and aggression to me. 'usermane' seem to be too hot for you to handle; you have to engage him intellectually instead of dragging me, unnecessarily, into this discussion.

'Kpachara anya' bro!

Look at this guy, how many times has he abstained from questions that I have asked him and how many times has his hypocrite heart allowed him not to be bias? I will no longer waste any time and knowledge concerning the three of you. And I am not your brother, may Allah protect me from such.

usermane:


Peace.

I wonder the response you had in mind especially concerning my critique on Islam or traditional Islam to be precise. The tables have completely turned. The days of concealing the weakness or darkness in Islam died with the birth of internet.

Thank God at least for these websites;

sunnah.com
quranx.com/Tafsirs/
corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?

Anyone lies about Islam now is easily exposed. The days of scholars concealing the facts from the public is long gone.

Please enjoy every moment of your delusional glory, whether you like it or not you will die and that will be Allah's time.

Empiree:
This was the reason i wanted clarification what you mean 'we attributed great things to islam'. Now that i have seen those great invention, like it or not, I am loving. My initial thought was you and the dude were referring to beautiful sceneries in the arab world like modern appearance of Mecca and Medina, burj Khalifa etc. These are not something to cause alarm. But now, yes, like it or not, those Islamic inventions were gold



Of Course you wouldnt bcuz you realized it is a case of black calling black black

Which great inventions are you talking about? Are these Islamic inventions: Hospitals, The crank, Toothbrush, Music, Optics, etc? You guys can be very funny and equally ignorant.

Empiree:
Since you backtracked from revisiting the issue, just let it slide. Else, i will go google gaga on christian slavery like i did years ago.

I dont see any rational reason for revisiting old thread to prove my point. It is a well documented fact that Islam as a religion thrives on racism and slavery. Your prophet is equally a perfect example of this crime against humanity.

Empiree:
See hypocrisy and see how you switched?. We have raised this issue before about 2 wks ago. If you wanna revisit, I am available to google gaga on you.When i showed you a video before you simply claimed it was "propaganda". Kontinu

The west are not clean but they are 1000% more humane than the Arabs and the Muslims in general. The west, despite their flaws, created the current policies and technology which you are all being controlled and influenced. And FYA, the west are in good term with the saudis, the owners of Islam. Who are you to complain when your master, the Saudis, are eating from the same plate with the US and the UK?

Empiree:
who are you trying to trick?. I noticed you said similar in the other guy's thread but i just brushed it aside. Throughout history of man starting from Adam(as), family members have always killed one another. How's that issue?. Even Jesus was allegedly killed by his own people. So what's your point. JFK was killed by his countryman. Luther king, Malcolm x were killed by their own countrymen. Come to nija, Dele Giwa was killed by his countrymen. Bola Ige was killed by his countrymen. Gandhi was killed by his countrymen. Murtala Muhammad was killed by his countrymen. So abeg, your point exactly?

Are the Khalifa members of the family of Mohammed? No. They are all partners in crime using religion as a cover for global conquest. The Khalifa (Abu Bakr, Omar ibn Kathab, Uthman Ibn Affan, etc) conspired and eliminated the families of your prophet and you are here telling me 'family members have always killed one another'. Are you damn serious? Deal with the fact that your fellow Muslims, not the Jews or the Christians, eliminated the bloodline of your prophet. The shia are still angry with you guys for this crime.

najib632:
You think you're smart or what when you were saying may shit be upon the messenger of Allah you think you would go Scott free, infact if you do not sue me the pain your mother felt giving birth to you was a waste. You think you're so smart or what?

I wanted to sue you but my lawyer advised me to tamper justice with mercy. I have forgiven you but ensure you don't call me 'true2devil' or 'false2god'; be a good boy and don't follow the sunnah of your prophet.

najib632:
Look at this guy, how many times has he abstained from questions that I have asked him and how many times has his hypocrite heart allowed him not to be bias? I will no longer waste any time and knowledge concerning the three of you. And I am not your brother, may Allah protect me from such.

He, 'usermane', has no obligation to answer your questions; he can chose to ignore you. We are not in a court of law where silence can mean acquiescence. Stop taking matters very serious like a fundamentalist; Islam is not the religion of your ancestors so don't kill yourself over a backward foreign ideology from the desert.

true2god:


Are the Khalifa members of the family of Mohammed? No. They are all partners in crime using religion as a cover for global conquest. The Khalifa (Abu Bakr, Omar ibn Kathab, Uthman Ibn Affan, etc) conspired and eliminated the families of your prophet and you are here telling me 'family members have always killed one another'. Are you damn serious? Deal with the fact that your fellow Muslims, not the Jews or the Christians, eliminated the bloodline of your prophet. The shia are still angry with you guys for this crime.

How does this refute the fact that Jesus, your god was killed by his own people?

Empiree:
How does this refute the fact that Jesus, your god was killed by his own people?

It is not news that Jesus died and rose in the 3rd day as prophecied in the scriptures; it was not an accident but part of God's plan for the redemption of the sinful man.

Muslims on the other hand have, for over 1000 years, hid the information on how your prophet's death. Your prophet was poisoned by a Jewsih woman in Khaibar and he died of the poison after soooooo much pain and suffering. See hadith below:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
A Jewess brought a poisoned (cooked) sheep for the Prophet who ate from it. She was brought to the Prophet and he was asked, "Shall we kill her?" He said, "No." I continued to see the effect of the poison on the palate of the mouth of Allah's Apostle. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 47, Number 786)

Narrated Ibn Abbas:
'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to let Ibn Abbas sit beside him, so 'AbdurRahman bin 'Auf said to 'Umar, "We have sons similar to him." 'Umar replied, "(I respect him) because of his status that you know." 'Umar then asked Ibn 'Abbas about the meaning of this Holy Verse:-- "When comes the help of Allah and the conquest of Mecca..." (110.1)

Ibn 'Abbas replied, "That indicated the death of Allah's Apostle which Allah informed him of." 'Umar said, "I do not understand of it except what you understand." Narrated 'Aisha: The Prophet in his ailment in which he died, used to say, "O 'Aisha! I still feel the pain caused by the food I ate at Khaibar, and at this time, I feel as if my aorta is being cut from that poison." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 713).

Christian are proud to teach the death and the Resurrection of Christ but Muslims are ashamed of the death of Mohammed via poison. A whole prophet of Allah killed by ordinary 'sniper'.

Tufiakwa!

true2god:
It is not news that Jesus died and rose in the 3rd day as prophecied in the scriptures; it was not an accident but part of God's plan for the redemption of the sinful man.



Tufiakwa!

How does this refute the fact that his own people killed him whether he rose the 3rd day or not?. What's even more ridiculous is blasphemy for saying your god was killed. What kind nonesense is that.

For the fact that he was killed on the cross by his own people makes you guilty of the same allegation you levied on Muslims.



I know it pains you
Tufiakwa

najib632:
Please enjoy every moment of your delusional glory, whether you like it or not you will die and that will be Allah's time.

There is no glory in any of this. I'm actually disappointed. First, I thought the problems only lay with hadith. And now I come to find that Qur'an has it own fair share of issues. I did my best to address these issues objectively, but in the end, there are just those verses breeding doubts on the Qur'an. Here is one again;

22:63 - Do you not see that Allah send down from the sky water.

22:65 - And He withholds the sky lest it falls upon the earth except by His leave.

Now, the sky is where the rain comes from - this is the troposphere. The troposphere is space, with gas and dust particles. As such it is not conceivable for the troposphere be to fall upon the earth. Thus, no need to withold it.

22:65 would only make sense if the sky or troposphere is a solid ceiling like mass. This is not the case. So, this verse is apparently wrong.

The way forward is not by cursing people and intimidating them for criticizing or disobeying Qur'an. The way forward is to be humble and realize there is at least a chance the Qur'an is not God's word, whether you continue to practice Islam or not.

Empiree:
How does this refute the fact that his own people killed him whether he rose the 3rd day or not?. What's even more ridiculous is blasphemy for saying your god was killed. What kind nonesense is that.

For the fact that he was killed on the cross by his own people makes you guilty of the same allegation you levied on Muslims.



I know it pains you
Tufiakwa

. Fake god getting killed by what he created, worst fairy tale I've heard all my life.

usermane:


There is no glory in any of this. I'm actually disappointed. First, I thought the problems only lay with hadith. And now I come to find that Qur'an has it own fair share of issues. I did my best to address these issues objectively, but in the end, there are just those verses breeding doubts on the Qur'an. Here is one again;



Now, the sky is where the rain comes from - this is the troposphere. The troposphere is space, with gas and dust particles. As such it is not conceivable for the troposphere be to fall upon the earth. Thus, no need to withold it.

22:65 would only make sense if the sky or troposphere is a solid ceiling like mass. This is not the case. So, this verse is apparently wrong.

The way forward is not by cursing people and intimidating them for criticizing or disobeying Qur'an. The way forward is to be humble and realize there is at least a chance the Qur'an is not God's word, whether you continue to practice Islam or not.

Thanks for this usernane. It seems the Muslims are too delusional not to even see the flaws in their Quran. Muslims should be humble enough to understand that many people are learning and studying (not reciting) the Quran. You are actually brave, being a Muslim (or ex-muslim) and pointing out these errors.

Fallacy of Whataboutism

Empyree:

Need I say more?. You summed it all by acknowledging facts but spoiled it by adding "so called"to suggest they are not necessarily CHRISTIANs. Anyways you agree that Jews and Christian terrorists are greatest threats to humanity right now.

Even though you decided to bring about way against apostates by Abu Bakr (ra), I can also go back to history. Before prophet muhammad (saw), didn't Jews and CHRISTIANS at war as well?. How about Roman army that invaded Jerusalem and destroyed it?. And other countless wars like that before the advent of Nabi Muhammad, were they muslims?

Oh, look! Fallacy of Whataboutism. Also known as Tu quoque fallacy. "I know Muslims attacked apostates but what about Jews & Christians ............"

Poor understanding of the term "Islamic/Muslim terrorist"

Empyree:

"strange & funny"? cheesy but "Islamic terrorists" is relative and not oxymoron?. Media is fantastic. They successfully brainwashed you people to believe that every slight misdeed of muslims is act of terrorism.

Forget the media. Not every slight misdeed done by Muslims is Muslim terrorism, but every misdeed Muslim commits and justify in the name of Islam, or Qur'an. If Boko Haram, ISIS, Al Qaeda carried out their terror without invoking Islam; shouting takbir and reciting shahada or quoting Qur'an, we can all agree not to call them Islamic terrorists.

The New Zealand shooter did not quote Bible or shout 'Haleluya', 'In Jesus name' or 'Jehovah'. So he's not a Christian terrorist. Charlie Hebdo shooters on the other hand not only killed in the name of Islam, but they kept on shouting 'ya rasoolulah' and 'Allahu Akbar'. No one should have to schooled on this. Think.

user.mane:
Fallacy of Whataboutism



Oh, look! Fallacy of Whataboutism. Also known as Tu quoque fallacy. "I know Muslims attacked apostates but what about Jews & Christians ............"

obviously you can't counter my point. Closed

userm.ane:
Poor understanding of the term "Islamic/Muslim terrorist"



Forget the media. Not every slight misdeed done by Muslims is Muslim terrorism, but every misdeed Muslim commits and justify in the name of Islam, or Qur'an. If Boko Haram, ISIS, Al Qaeda carried out their terror without invoking Islam; shouting takbir and reciting shahada or quoting Qur'an, we can all agree not to call them Islamic terrorists.

The New Zealand shooter did not quote Bible or shout 'Haleluya', 'In Jesus name' or 'Jehovah'. So he's not a Christian terrorist. Charlie Hebdo shooters on the other hand not only killed in the name of Islam, but they kept on shouting 'ya rasoolulah' and 'Allahu Akbar'. No one should have to schooled on this. Think.

Allahu Akbar is not hidden phrase nor is it restricted to muslims. Anyone can chant it.

Did you watch CSI Los Angeles where LL Cool J successfully recited verse of war from Qur'an to fake terror!st attacks?. It is easy too read Arabic, man. Your agenda is now on full display. I get it. You are not muslim.

Damage Control for Caliph Abu Bakr's Tyranny

Empyree:

and what happens if you live in the West and don't pay Tax? Govt will declare "war" on you by throwing you in jail. Zakat is obligatory in Islam, therefore it must be enforced by said authority. The same way world power today enforced their will on developing countries without provocation. If they don't comply, unwarranted sanctions follow.

Hmm... I'v addressed this in detail on my thread "Qur'an: Human Rights, Freedom & Equity". There, beginning under the subheading,"Freedom of Belief and Expression" to "What is so WRONG with enforcing zakat", I devote my time to prove that the Qur'an is against forcing any Islamic ritual on anyone. I proved that also with common sense.

Ultra.mane:
Damage Control for Caliph Abu Bakr's Tyranny



Hmm... I'v addressed this in detail on my thread "Qur'an: Human Rights, Freedom & Equity". There, beginning under the subheading,"Freedom of Belief and Expression" to "What is so WRONG with enforcing zakat", I devote my time to prove that the Qur'an is against forcing any Islamic ritual on anyone. I proved that also with common sense.

You are not a Muslim. So you aren't in position to tell me what's enforced in Islam and what is not. As far as I'm concerned, my comment goes with the flow. I don't believe in forcing any rituals on fellow muslims unless and until it gets to a point where no option is left but to enforce zakat on the rich. Zakat (both two types) are equivalent to modern tax system. They are all aimed at achieving same goal.... ALLEVIATE POVERTY

The damage control for Caliph Abu Bakr continues

Empyree:

But we know zakah is only paid by those who are well enough. Abu Bakr did the right thing by enforcing payment on them. We all know the benefit of zakat. Look at Nigeria environment today. If govt is firm and upright, they would enforced zakah on these rich people and looters. Rather, they are permanently rich and poor are permanently poor. This is why zakah was established (to spread wealth). It is not all about killing those who refused to pay zakah. Abu Bakr (ra)'s decision was based on ijma at that time even though some top sahaba frown at outstart.

His decision was not based on ijma. Just his deduction from the hadith;

"The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'I have been commanded to fight the people until they testify to La ilaha ill-allah (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah) and that I am the Messenger of Allah, and establish regular prayers and pay Zakat.'"

Does Empyree even believe his own words? Abu Bakr was determined to fight them regardless of what any one thought.