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Stats: 2,331,506 members, 5,153,871 topics. Date: Sunday, 15 September 2019 at 11:45 AM
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by MuttleyLaff: 10:45pm On Aug 10|
michaelkaroh:I am sorry, if you find long post challenging for you. It is apparent the content in the post, went swoosh over your head, like as if it was a Naija Airforce fighter jet and "you didn't know warris going on"
Next time, once you know, you can't run with the big boys, just stay indoors, stay on the porch. OK?
michaelkaroh:Will you for a second, stop displaying and publicly flaunting your ignorance, hmm?
1. What is a vine?
Vine, when related to grapevine, is a plant whose grapefruit, can be used to make fermented/alcoholic wine or fruit juice that is not alcoholic
2. What is the fruit of the vine?
The fruit of the vine, in the context it was used in Matthew 26:29, is grape(s).
In Matthew 26:29, the phrase, "fruit of the vine", calculatingly, consciously and deliberately used by Jesus is completely and utterly different to using the word wine. Jesus, in Matthew 26:29, avoided using the Greek word "oinos", which means intoxicating wine, as in, obviously a fermented/alcoholic drink
Examples of "fruit of the vine" are: tomato juice, grape juice etcetera
3. What beverage is made from the fruit of the vine?
I already gave example(s) in #2 above.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Nobody: 10:57pm On Aug 10|
The scriptures say that we must through much tribulation get into the kingdom of God.
I started having problems the moment I gave my life to Christ.
Not long after I gave my life to Christ, after I finished praying one day and lay down to sleep. A guy entered my room, as I was staring at him, he turned to a cat and moved straight to where I was, bit me and disappeared.
I went to a pastor who prayed for me and I vomited the poison that was deposited in my body.
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|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Nobody: 11:04pm On Aug 10|
The first set of problems I had as a Christian, was that the devil started attacking me with terrible diseases.
1- I had an attack in the dream and woke up with HIV, God healed me
2- I had another attack immediately where i was given sugar, and woke up with diabetes, God healed me.
3- I had another attack and woke up with pile, God healed me.
4- I had another attack and woke up with cancer , God healed me.
These things I'm saying aren't made up , but the truth. They might sound strange but they are all true.
I could hardly close my eyes to sleep, cos the attacks were coming per second, the devil wanted to kill me by all means.
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|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by michaelkaroh: 11:08pm On Aug 10|
MuttleyLaff:"Big boys" write intelligently. Making long posts about a subject don't equate being learned on such.
Fruit of the vine is grape. Grape is used to make wine. All wines are alcoholic. It's that simple man.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Nobody: 11:10pm On Aug 10|
After the devil saw that I couldn't be killed, that's when persecution set in.
I can remember the first church I said I pastored, I and my pastor friends used to hold revivals branch by branch.
One day after holding revival in a particular branch, we decided to pray for ourselves as pastors.
When it was my turn, I knelt down for prayers, they started praying and one of the pastors shouted and said, oga wetin you do.
They asked him what the problem was and he said the Holy Ghost told him, that there were 72 kingdoms trying to kill me.
I was just a little above 1 year in the Lord then, I'm still alive and fit now.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by michaelkaroh: 11:13pm On Aug 10|
EnthronedbyGod:You made it known that you don't like to "argue" so let us for your sake, leave this stone unturned.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Nobody: 11:17pm On Aug 10|
It was this same set of pastors that were later manipulated by these kingdoms and used to disgrace me out of the church.
They told me someone was sent from the headquarters to take over my branch and said I've been summoned by the state overseer.
I went to the state overseer and he told me, that he has heard a lot of evil about me and that if he hears anything else , he will suspend me.
I wanted to ask him if he wasn't the one that told them to take me out of the pulpit, but the Holy Ghost silenced me and told me He will fight for me and I shall hold my peace.
That was when I really knew it was a gang up, cos one of them was my regional head, who took the decision with the other parties and lied that it was from the headquarters.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by michaelkaroh: 11:17pm On Aug 10|
EnthronedbyGod:You don suffer sha!!.....
the LORD is your strength.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Nobody: 11:20pm On Aug 10|
michaelkaroh:My brother, if I say if I talk e go reach 100 pages.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Nobody: 11:26pm On Aug 10|
Before I left the place I went through hell.
I can remember then, while i was waiting and hoping for reinstatement, if I come out of my house, little children will come around me and start making jest of me, clapping their hands, stamping their feet on the floor and using me for caricature.
There was no pastors vigil then, that I wouldn't be summoned by higher authority, because of false charges that were placed on me by these same set of pastors. Each time I try to defend myself the Holy Ghost will silence me and say God is the defender of the righteous.
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|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Nobody: 11:33pm On Aug 10|
I was once on my way to Church and i was flogged mercilessly.
The scar was on my body for years, before it cleared off.
I was once chained from head to toe with heavy chain that they used to lock big gates in the presence of the whole street, forced and bundled into a car and was taken straight to the headquarters.
I wanted to struggle with them and the Holy Ghost spoke again and said the servant of the Lord must not strive. God made sure He broke all my defences and destroyed every form of strong man in me.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by michaelkaroh: 11:36pm On Aug 10|
EnthronedbyGod:And you know, most of these spiritual battles, it's hard to believe stories about them unless you've been a victim. I thank God for your life o, the small one wen I go through...I actually prayed for death.
God must surely by his mercies save his children.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by MuttleyLaff: 11:36pm On Aug 10|
michaelkaroh:Grapes are used to make fermented wine and also used to make fresh juice which obviously is unfermented wine
EnthronedbyGod:I concur completely with demur with this comment
EnthronedbyGod:The water turned into wine by Jesus, in John 2:9-10, is fermented/alcoholic wine and not fresh wine. This is evidenced by the Greek words, "oinos", used in John 2:3, 9-10, which means intoxicating wine, as in, obviously fermented/alcoholic drink.
EnthronedbyGod:"Don’t drink only water. You ought to drink a little wine for the sake of your stomach because you are sick so often"
- 1 Timothy 5:23
How fresh wine, as in, wine with no alcoholic content, can relieve someone in ailing health like Timothy was is baffling. We ought to recognise that the Greek word used by Paul, in 1 Timothy 5:23, is the word "oinos", which means intoxicating wine, as in, obviously a fermented/alcoholic drink. Grape fruit juice doesnt fire anyone up in the stomach, it is very good wine, that shakes you up and shudders you, so that all that sickness dissipates and flies off the body. That is why Paul recommended alcoholic wine and not grape fruit juice to Timothy
EnthronedbyGod:This is an imposition introduced by man
michaelkaroh:This is an incorrect statement
michaelkaroh:The emboldened is absolutely correct and true. Consumption of alcoholic beverages in moderation is advised
EnthronedbyGod:This 110% correct
EnthronedbyGod:Drinking alcoholics is for merriment, to cheer oneself up, for socialising etcetera, but never to be abused, never to be misused, never to get drunk on, and surely never to be addicted to
michaelkaroh:Who vex you nah. Why the bad belle. My friend "short" up , you are making noise. Nobi by force to raise peniis abeggy. Coat no mates with "agbada"
michaelkaroh:Some people mumu never do, and yet the first grade mumu, sef no get part 2.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Nobody: 11:38pm On Aug 10|
That's why I said, that it will be difficult for most people to believe.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Nobody: 11:43pm On Aug 10|
I once went to see a young lady in her aunt's shop.
She was somehow close to me then, but I had to run for my dear life.
I decided to take a stroll with her, we walked and got to a curved place that was covered with kerosine tank.
As we got there, she removed her skirt instantly, she had no underwear on, and started urinating right in my presence claiming she was pressed.
The funny thing is that she faced me while urinating
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by michaelkaroh: 11:52pm On Aug 10|
MuttleyLaff:Piece of advice man, whenever you get the urge to mock, ridicule and use profanity, meditate upon the standards and precepts of the one you claim to serve.
I noticed you like to have the last word, so please help yourself and quote me once more.
Seek peace, man.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Nobody: 11:54pm On Aug 10|
oinos simply means wine.
yayin means fermented or intoxicating wine.
Stop misinterpreting scriptures to suit your narrative.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by michaelkaroh: 12:02am On Aug 11|
But seriously, why does sexual temptation seem to be the most used tactic of the fallen ones....baffles me.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by MuttleyLaff: 12:50am On Aug 11|
michaelkaroh:Piece of advice man, never start what you cant finish.
With you, I'll relish always having the last word
If you want peace, I'll give you peace, but if you want bullshit, like how you started, I'll give you bullshit plus back
I dont suffer gladly, posters who are devoid of respect, politeness and courtesy in behaviour and in their posts. Respect, politeness and courtesy is a two way street.
EnthronedbyGod:Smh. Please tell, and put the devil to shame. What language is "oinos" in and what language is "yayin" in, hmm?
Dont bother, its a rhetoric question, because the former is Greek, while the latter is Hebrew, the light bulb moment about the two words, is that they both mean the same thing, as in, mean alcoholic/fermented drink
EnthronedbyGod:You better stick to dishing and rolling out your salacious, sensationalized gutter press stories to your itching ears audience, instead of trying very hard to make words suit your narrative and man made doctrine
Do you think Jesus wasnt aware of the words "oinos" and "yayin" at all, hmm? Why did Jesus not use either "oinos" and "yayin", but calculatingly, consciously and deliberately used "fruit of the vine" instead, huh?
Jesus avoided using the Greek word "oinos" and the Hebrew word "yayin", because both means intoxicating wine, as in, obviously a fermented/alcoholic drink/intoxicating wine
Now please EnthronedbyGod, explain why was Jesus called a winebibber and/or a drunkard? Was it because of drinking grape fruit juice or fresh wine that's not fermented, erhn?
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by michaelkaroh: 6:40am On Aug 11|
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by MuttleyLaff: 7:35am On Aug 11|
michaelkaroh:What is the serious advice for dealing against sexual temptation? It is RUN. Just run, and leave your cloak behind if you must. Take off, get out from there, dont hang about. Run from anything or anyone that will stimulate you having sexual lust
Give an inexhaustible list of sexual temptation or give the many ways someone can encounter sexual temptation?
michaelkaroh:I am glad we now understand each other
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Igbaf: 11:04am On Aug 11|
[quote author=EnthronedbyGod post=81012632]
I've replied you[/quote
EnthronedbyGod pls could you send me a message to firstname.lastname@example.org as i didnt see your reply .thanks
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Mariangeles: 11:04am On Aug 11|
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Shepherd00: 12:25pm On Aug 11|
jayextra:Hahahahahahaha. Your comments makes me laugh so hard.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Bodydialect57: 1:59pm On Aug 11|
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by generationz(f): 2:03pm On Aug 11|
Actually, no Christian with the Holy Spirit seeking to tap into the heavenly and to grow should make wine.
Alcoholic wine has a tendency to intoxicate.
Wine, beer etc is not a sin in the way the church sees it. It is not filth as the church sees it.
However, as a Christian grows spiritually there are some habits must that should be put off.
Drinking alcohol is one of them.
A spiritual Christian should never risk intoxication which is control by a force other than the holy spirit
Giving in to our emotions such as anger, hate etc can be used as a means of control by the evil one.
Those are secondary means.
The primary means is demonic possession. I'm sure you know about that one very well. I won't delve into that.
I won't also talk about alcoholic drinks like gins and spirits because those are harmful to health. I doubt they provide a single advantage to the body. Deliberately destroying your body as a sign of enjoyment is a sin to the creator of that body.
I'm sure you know that a great evangelist like AA Allen was consumed by Alcoholism in his final years. Infact, it was one of the things that destroyed his ministry. This was a relapse as he had struggled with alcoholism in his teens before he became born again.
It is important we are careful who we tell this things to. Some people are better off just hearing "Alcohol is a sin"
If you were to tell someone me that a little wine is good I wouldn't be bothered because I have been clean all my life and I'm not even drawn to alcohol. I hate the smell.
However, if you were telling an "A.A Allen" the same thing you might just be triggering a relapse back to a forgotten addiction
Most cleaned up addicts will never be able to manage the object of their addiction. they have to say bye-bye to it forever and will always struggle when they see it again compared to the average person who never had an encounter with that object.
I have seen how alcohol wrecked spiritual men. One is the Mentor to one of my major spiritual mentors. Not so educated but had a deep understanding of faith even more than our fathers.
Infact muttley, if you have been involved in deep fasting and prayer you would know that even food is a clog in mans spiritual ascension.
The more you fast the more you hate food because the more your spirit man is being awakened.
We need food to survive and must eat but we don't need alcohol to survive. So, why can't we just do away with it. Why do we always need deep explanations for things like this?
As enlightened Christians, we supposed don pass this stage na. Remember paul's frustration with ( I think the Corinthian church) we suppose don pass stage of " If you lie you will go to hellfire" . Simple things.
Besides, we should not forget where this drinks are being sold. I don't think anything that uplifts the spirit man are discussed there. I don't want to go deep into this aspect so it won't seem like I'm judging the "babes and sucklings"
Finally, I'll leave everyone reading this and battling on whether to drink or not to
1 Corinthians 6
Everything is permissible for me"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"--but I will not be mastered by anything.
"Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"--but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
Where it is written sexual immorality put Alcoholic Intoxication.
Dear reader, put your hands on your chest and say " I will not be mastered by anything."
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Bodydialect57: 2:07pm On Aug 11|
Op's battle is a spiritually propelled physical battle. When the devil couldn't succeed in the spiritual realm, he brought it down to physical to make it look like an ordinary thing. God sure holds the Op's rein. He needs those experiences to make him into what God wants him to be.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by michaelkaroh: 2:28pm On Aug 11|
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by MuttleyLaff: 2:54pm On Aug 11|
generationz:"Drinking alcoholics is for merriment, to cheer oneself up, for socialising etcetera, but never to be abused, never to be misused, never to get drunk on, and surely never to be addicted to"
- Religion/Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by MuttleyLaff: 11:36pm On Aug 10
"Personally, I dont necessarily drink alcohol, this is not because of any doctrine per se, but truly the reason is, I have the right to do anything but not everything really is that beneficial to me, besides I am more of a social drinker than a habitual one anyway."
- Religion/Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by MuttleyLaff: 9:50pm On Aug 10
"When Paul was advising Timothy about dealing with his health issues, it wasnt fruit juice Paul was advising Timothy to take drink for it
The aftermath of the abuse and/or misuse of wine/alcohol is unbecoming. Drunkenness and addiction to wine/alcohol is a behaviour not fitting or appropriate for any son/daughter of God. Ephesians 5:18 reproduced above, is very informative and a useful verse concerning the preferred state of being drunk and preferred sort of intoxication."
- Religion / Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by MuttleyLaff: 9:50pm On Aug 10
Everything in the above inverted commas and others not shown, says effectively all you've said. Whats my serious advice to the A. A Allen of this world, as regards dealing against alcohol intoxication and/or addiction? It is RUN. Just run, at the sight or scent of alcohol. Take off, get out from there, dont hang about where alcohol is. Run from anything or anyone that will put you in a situation to come into contact with alcohol etcetera.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Shepherd00: 3:21pm On Aug 11|
MiddleDimension:Define Born Again Christian
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by michaelkaroh: 3:27pm On Aug 11|
generationz:Beautifully written but I think it is off a little.
Drinking alcoholic beverages is not bad.....drinking alcohol till your state is altered(drunkenness) is abominable. As you know, man must worship God in sobriety always, so anything that alters your state of consciousness is sin. Many Christians today still use consciousness altering medications not knowing it is a sin, eg painkillers, anasthetics etc.
As for addictions, it has no place in christ. Once men accept christ, their bodies, desire and actions are controlled by the Holy Spirit, the only way to relapse into the former man is by sin.
You should know that addictions are totally spiritual as they are physically absurd.
Alcoholics with liver damage will still beg for a sip.
Fashion addicts don't mind being in debt to be trendy.
Wife beaters can abuse their wives for greeting them in a wrong "tone".
Also, there are people addicted to cutting themselves, tattoos, starvation,etc.
The only way to give up addictions is to accept christ and the only way to relapse is to fall back into sin.
|Re: Cultism, The Spiritual Consequences And Deliverance Through Christ by Shepherd00: 3:33pm On Aug 11|
michaelkaroh:Not all wines are alcoholic, only fermented grapes or Vines are alcoholic.
Not only Vine. If you ferment Palm juice you'd ve alcohol. if you ferment Corn, Rice, Millet, you'd have alcohol come out of them.
Fermentation turns them to alcohol, not that they are automatically alcohol.
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