OLAADEGBU:


Should We Also Dismiss Avoiding Lying, Theft, And Adultery?

If, as some argue, we are not under the Law and so we can dismisses Leviticus--along with its clear condemnation of homosexuality--then shouldn't we also dismiss Levitical teachings that warn against:

Lying (Lev. 19:11),
Theft (Lev. 19:13),
Bearing false witness (Lev. 19:16),
Hating your fellow man (Lev. 19:17),
Exacting vengeance (Lev. 19:18),
Avoiding unjust balances (Lev. 19:36),
Sacrificing children (Lev. 20:1-5),
Committing adultery (Lev. 20:10),
Committing incest (20:11-14),
And the practice of bestiality (Lev. 20:15-16)?

MuttleyLaff:
Goshen360, abeggy no keel pesin with laffta for here ooo.

I just like reading lies, when I know the truth. It amazes me, how people dont let the Bible ordinarily speak by itself, but people help the Bible saying things, it isnt saying and even forcibly putting words into the Bible's mouth, shoving it down its throat, choking the poor thing with shock I would suppose

Goshen360:


Every time you discuss the word, you always show your lack of being grounded in the truth and always shifting goal post. Btw, it's being proven u do this game playing and post shifting all the time....if not, what has Obama and Hilary got to do with this topic if not distraction.....you are the very one that should get over it and move on.

Goshen360:


My point again:

When the law given to ISRAEL AS A NATION, it was given as ONE.....AND NOT DIVIDED INTO 3 CATEGORIES like you law advocate wants to teach. This is so that a break in this one is a break in all the rest of the 612 and including the 10 commandments.

IF YOU HAVE SCRIPTURES THAT MADE THOSE 3 DIVISIONS CATEGORY, PLEASE SHOW IT TO US. IF YOU HAVE SCRIPTURES SAYING THE ONE LAW WAS DIVIDED INTO 3 CATEGORIES SHOW IT TO US.

Goshen360:


2. It is a TRUTH that has existed in the scriptures that.....BEFORE LIVED BEFORE THE LAW AND HAD MORALS WITHOUT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS. E.g, Joseph, Enoch, Abraham etc.....What's their 10 commandments that they lived by? A Christian DO NOT NEED the 10 commandments to be moral. People who are not even Christians can be moral without the 10 commandments.

OLAADEGBU:
Why wouldn't you commit incest or bestiality today (assuming you do not), is it because you are under the law?

MuttleyLaff:


Aside the fact that God actually did and emphatically did talk against incest and bestiality, I wouldn't commit incest and bestiality because mutual consent will be absent.

MuttleyLaff:


I wouldn't consent to incest and no animal can consciously give me consent.

MuttleyLaff:


Also having carnal knowledge with animals is coveting strange and different flesh.

MuttleyLaff:


Now being operating under a superior, stronger and higher law, I wouldn't be interested in either incest or bestiality too.

xproducer:


"And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." - Jude 1: 6-8

OLAADEGBU:


Are you saying going after strange flesh is equal to homosexuality?

xproducer:


Read Genesis Chapter 19, among others in the New testament referencing it, for context!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Bodydialect57:
Kill them you say?

Aaronsrod:


Yes.

With fire!

Bodydialect57:
God does not want them dead but that they all should come to repentance.

.

Aaronsrod:


Lies from the pit of Hell!

He has commanded us to kill them! Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Do you know better than God??

OLAADEGBU:
Where and when did God 'emphatically talks' against incest and bestiality?

OLAADEGBU:
Where and when did God 'emphatically talks' against incest and bestiality?

OLAADEGBU:
What then would stop you from having sex with your daughter (if you have one) if she consents?

OLAADEGBU:
What stops you from bestiality if your domesticated dog is on the heat and in the mood for you to hump it?

OLAADEGBU:
Where does the scripture forbid that?

OLAADEGBU:
What is the basis of that superior, stronger and higher law?

OLAADEGBU:
Does this law demand lesser requirements from you than the one we are talking about on this thread?

Bodydialect57:
If any of them choose to believe in the atoning work of Jesus Christ and repent from their sins, they will be saved. God does not delight in their perishing in hell.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter:3:9

Aaronsrod:


Folly!

How can they repent if they have been put to death as He commands??

MuttleyLaff:


"⁶Never have sexual intercourse with anyone related to you by blood I am the LORD.
⁷Never have sexual intercourse with your mother. She is your own mother. Never have sexual intercourse with her.
⁸Never have sexual intercourse with your stepmother. She is related to you through your father.
⁹Never have sexual intercourse with your stepsister, whether she is your father's daughter or your mother's daughter. It makes no difference whether or not she was born in your house.
¹⁰Never have sexual intercourse with your granddaughter, whether she is your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter, because she is related to you.
¹¹Never have sexual intercourse with a daughter of your father and his wife. She is your own sister.
¹²Never have sexual intercourse with your father's sister. She is your paternal aunt.
¹³Never have sexual intercourse with your mother's sister. She is your maternal aunt.
¹⁴Never have sexual intercourse with the wife of your father's brother. She, too, is your aunt.
¹⁵Never have sexual intercourse with your daughter-in-law. She is your son's wife. Never have sexual intercourse with her.
¹⁶Never have sexual intercourse with your sister-in-law. She is your brother's wife.
¹⁷Never have sexual intercourse with a woman and her daughter or a woman and her granddaughter. They are related. Doing this is perverted.
¹⁸While your wife is living, never marry her sister as a rival wife and have sexual intercourse with her."
- Leviticus 18:6-18

"You are not to have sexual intercourse with any animal, defiling yourself with it; a woman is not to present herself to an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion.""
- Leviticus 18:23

MuttleyLaff:


What the heck kind of question is that, hmm? What kind of person asks a question like this? Asking such a pervese question like this, sure does reveal the personality and the inner workings of the questioner's mind.

MuttleyLaff:


Fyi, the answer to your perverted question is, asides instructive Leviticus 18:6, the understanding it is a confusing and/or perverse act stops me.

MuttleyLaff:


Smh. Aside instructive Leviticus 18:23, self-discipline, self-control, self-regard and the understanding that this is a confusing and/or perverse act stops me, the fact is, any domesticated dog is not in any position to give a human informed consent to sex

MuttleyLaff:


"For not all flesh is the same, but there is one kind for humans, another for animals, another for birds, and another for fish"
- 1 Corinthians 15:39

MuttleyLaff:


Leviticus 18:23 earlier above given, is where the scripture forbids that. Now, as noted from 1 Corinthians 15:39 above about the difference in flesh, then having sexual intercorse or carnal knowledge with animals, means such person is consumed with desire for different flesh. Some even go beyond animals, by lusting for strange flesh, something further and more different

MuttleyLaff:


It helps you with your life as regards, forming normative rules of conduct, as in, moral standards that regulate right and wrong conduct

MuttleyLaff:


"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another"
- John 13:34

"In the same way, when working with Gentiles, I live like a Gentile, outside the Jewish Law, in order to win Gentiles.
This does not mean that I don't obey God's law; I am really under Christ's law"
- 1 Corinthians 9:21

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."
- Galatians 5:14

MuttleyLaff:


OLAADEGBU, please respond to the following three easy, simple, straightforward and direct questions:
1/ Please tell, what then is/are the law(s), you're talking about on this thread?

MuttleyLaff:


2/ What to your understanding, originally, contextually, truthfully to the fullest degree and really all about, is/are the law(s) you hopefully on the thread, are n point of fact(s) deliberating?

MuttleyLaff:


3/ The law by virtue of being superior, stronger and higher does not demand any lesser requirement. Does the law of aerodynamics, in face of the law of gravity, demand lesser requirements from you?

OLAADEGBU:
You supported Goshen by saying that we are no longer under the law, why are you now quoting the law as a reason why you will not commit such acts?

OLAADEGBU:
Don't give me that sanctimonious response as if you are holier than the inspired word of God written in the OT! Are you also accusing God for describing those acts into details in the OT? Come off it and just answer the question!

OLAADEGBU:
Your emotional blackmail will not work. Are you saying that the OT law prevents you from committing such acts or not? Please make yourself clear. On what basis are the acts confusing and/or perverse?

OLAADEGBU:
If you say the law is only instructive are you insisting that there are no eternal consequences for committing such acts?

OLAADEGBU:
Animals can have different kinds. I saw a dog and a cat today locked in a sexual position. Why should they be able to do that when humans cannot if you say we are not under the law?

OLAADEGBU:
If the law forbids you from having sex with animals why are you then saying that you are no longer bound by the same law for doing the same? Don't you think you are shooting yourself in the foot?

OLAADEGBU:
Does it have eternal consequences if that moral standard is broken?

OLAADEGBU:
"For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:20).

If that is the case then more responsibility is on you than those under the OT law.

OLAADEGBU:
If you had read the OP you would know the particular OT chapter that this topic is based on.

OLAADEGBU:
This is why folks need to read the OP before jumping into arguments, your answer is all over the OP.

OLAADEGBU:
That is my point. If homosexuality is forbidden in the OT then under a superior law it is double forbidden, if you permit me to say it like that.

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s3/images/FakeNewsBaboon.jpg[/img]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/did-baboon-terrorize-village/

"... but stuff about gay baboons, stuff about pastors saying they went to heaven, that goes viral", he said

OLAADEGBU:


Can you also fact check the video clip below is not as a result of bestiality?

h ttps://youtu.be/JdwYE-bTYsg

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/weird-news/mutant-calf-born-human-face-19912138

MuttleyLaff:


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/half-human-half-lamb-born-south-africa/

I don't know what's stopping you check yourself, anyway that is the result about it being false up there

OLAADEGBU:


Lev. 18:22

"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." (NASB)
"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination." (ESV, NKJV)

Clearly, the Old Testament condemns homosexuality. What else does it mean when it says "you shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female"? The term "lie with" here refers to sexual intercourse in the phrase "lie with a male as one lies with a female." It is an abomination. The word here is תֹּועֵבָה towʿebah, toʿebah.

117 occurrences; AV translates as "abomination" 113 times, "abominable thing" twice, and "abominable" twice. 1 a disgusting thing, abomination, abominable. 1a in ritual sense (of unclean food, idols, mixed marriages). 1b in ethical sense (of wickedness etc. ).1

Lev. 20:13

"If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them." (NASB)
"If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them." (ESV)

TBC

OLAADEGBU:
The usual fake snope 'fact checker' of course. The link and videoclip I posted was about a calf and not a lamb, it also happened in Argentina and not in South Africa, do you know the difference between lamb and calf, South Africa and South America respectively? Ask your dodgy fact checker again.

MuttleyLaff:


If I personally didn't know you and spoken with you, I would have said you're illiterate for calling the site fake and you're scared stiff of getting your grubby fingers dirty with fact checking.

OLAADEGBU:
Where and when did I know you or speak with you?

OLAADEGBU:
The site is still fake if it is giving you false information.

MuttleyLaff:


You must be suffering from a bout of amnesia, if you dont remember its you asking me where and when did God "emphatically talks" against incest and bestiality that prompted me giving you, what you by yourself asked me for.

MuttleyLaff:


God didnt ask me perverse questions. It is you who has. I already said, the answer to your perverted question is, asides instructive Leviticus 18:6, the understanding it is a confusing and/or perverse act stops me.

MuttleyLaff:


Human parents dont have sexual intercourse with their children. Whoever that does hasnt been thinking clearly, this is part basis of the act being confusing. Another important thing, that seemed to elapse you is, mutual consent and there's no chance of ice in hell, I'll consent even if she does. Can you now see how warped your mind works in conjuring up such a monstrous question like this, hmm?

MuttleyLaff:


Misquoting people must be a hobby of yours. I never and at all said "... the law is only instructive ..." Please either get your facts right or correct the vision by visiting SpecSavers

MuttleyLaff:


Even if animals can have different kinds, a truth that you now are introducing in here, it doesnt change the fact that animal flesh is animal flesh. Animals are able to have sex with another animal, even a different kind because they are still animals, but humans cant have sex with animals because aside the law prohibiting this, their flesh, as earlier said, is different and strange to that of animals.

MuttleyLaff:


Please correct yourself, I never said we are not under the law, but said, being operating under a superior, stronger and higher law, I wouldn't be interested in either incest or bestiality too, as the law by virtue of being superior, stronger and higher does not demand any lesser requirement.

MuttleyLaff:


There is a principle that says, what goes up must come, however there is another principle, superior, stronger and more powerful, that enables me go up and stay up in air thus ignoring the principle that says what goes up must come, making me no longer bound by that limiting principle

MuttleyLaff:


It is the mother of all laws, all the laws hinge on it, so of course, yes, there is eternal consequences if broken

MuttleyLaff:


Part of the Gospel, part of the good news, is that grace gets us through

MuttleyLaff:


You can play your hide and seek game with yourself, if thats how you want to

This is always the cop out, the free get out of jail card for you to use, hmm abi?

MuttleyLaff:


You had no point. To have a point, you successfully need to, consider together with the preceding background and surrounding words of the verse(s) you quoted, as in, consider the entire chapter upon which this topic is based on, then tell, clearly defined and/or identified, what kind of homosexuality is forbidden and also the reason specifically why that kind of homosexuality is forbidden

MuttleyLaff:


I hope you appreciate the huge risks I am taking by skating on thin ice which is broaching this subject with you. I did out of courtesy continuing with you because this discourse started before I got relieved from talking about it, so my dear brother, I trust you'll understand, if I should at any moment, suddenly clam up and refuse to respond to probing(s) that I know would get me into very hot unsavoury soup with God.

MuttleyLaff:


I am not making it up. You can argue, if you want and argue with yourself until your face turns blue, asking where and when did I know you or speak with you, but I know and God knows, I have spoken with you over the phone. The phonecall was made, over 10 years ago, during period when JeSoul was still on, and active as that here. I miss JeSoul, very much, not being here anymore.

MuttleyLaff:


[img]https://s3/images/calfFake.jpg[/img]

What false information is Snopes giving? That is slander OLAADEGBU and you seem to take pride in it.

MuttleyLaff:


Fyi OLAADEGBU, Snopes, is a reputable debunker of fake news sites. Snopes does not give false information rather for more than two decades, it reliably has been reporting facts and fakes at no charge to readers. If the site is not the leading, then it is one of the leading fact-checking agencies out there. It is a rumor detective site, that debunks or confirms widely spread urban legends. The site has been positively referenced by moi, news media and other sites, like for example CNN, MSNBC, Fortune, Forbes, The New York Times, BBC etcetera, so stop behaving like a plonker by saying the site is fake.

MuttleyLaff:


Now OLAADEGBU, what you saw in the video and story is something called holoprosencephaly. What you saw has nothing to do with bestiality and is not as a result of bestiality, so please stop spreading rumours and circulating fake news. Engaging in gossip, like this one you tried peddling, maybe, in desperation to score a point or get a leg up, is unbecoming for somebody, someone of your stature.

MuttleyLaff:


"You arent illiterate nau, you go school nah, shebi o kawe, shebi o mọ iwe ka," so if you've ever being within the four walls of a school's classroom, then why couldnt you read up whats on the above screen grab and stop yourself from behaving ignorantly, erhn?

OLAADEGBU:
I asked you that question since you gave me the impression that you are not bound by the Moral law of God as given in Leviticus and I wonder why you had to quote the same laws you dismissed as not being applicable to us.

OLAADEGBU:
It is God who commanded not asked that man should not lie with a man. Are you saying those commandments are perverse?

OLAADEGBU:
Why then did God forbid those abominations if it could not happen?

OLAADEGBU:
Where did God say that there has to be mutual consent?

OLAADEGBU:
SpecSavers ko, VisionExpress ni.

OLAADEGBU:
Who said that is bestiality is not possible. If God forbids it that meant that it was a thing that was practised by humans and animals.

OLAADEGBU:
Why were you defending and supporting Goshen who believes that the Moral law no longer applies to us?

OLAADEGBU:
Whoever breaks God's Moral Law will pay the eternal consequence if they don't repent and believe the gospel.

OLAADEGBU:
Good to know you believe this

OLAADEGBU:
Can we continue in sin and expect grace to abound? God forbid

OLAADEGBU:
Do your homework

OLAADEGBU:
According to the topic: 'Man who lies with a man' whichever way you want to paint it is an abomination and therefore forbidden by God's Moral Law.

OLAADEGBU:
It will be better for you to come out straight and tell us the kind of homosexuality that you feel is permitted by God.