Nihilist:
Actually City and Liverpool are amongst the teams that have conceded the fewest chances and fewest shots in their box this season. Unfortunately they just have 'imbecides' in their defence and goal so that any chance they do concede turns into a goal...just like what happened to Bayern when azmoun got a chance.

This is basic logic I am surprised you missed it

When you play possesion, In most cases you have to play a high line, when you play a high line, you get fewer players in defence, when you get fewer players in defence means opponent get higher quality chances.

six 90% chances vs thirteen 50% chances

E.g Chelsea vs City, Chelsea had about 4 chances on goal and all 3 goals were defenders isolated with a chelsea attacker which makes it a higher quality chance than shooting in the midst of community defence and stats will record that as a shot/chance conceded


WHy counter attacking is effective is that you are able to go one vs one on the defender and it offers you more higher quality chances

If you take those Liverpool or City defenders, put them in Chelsea today they will start keeping clean sheet because of community work

Before Chelsea started community defence, Was it not these same players caught in defence and were conceding?

This is David Luiz and the Chelsea defence without community defence. This is to show that community defenders are mostly hiding under joint effort. when isolated they are useless like Luiz and Terry

[img]http:///media/12-26-2016/1RjD1Y.gif[/img]

raumdeuter:


This is basic logic I am surprised you missed it

When you play possesion, In most cases you have to play a high line, when you play a high line, you get fewer players in defence, when you get fewer players in defence means opponent get higher quality chances.

six 90% chances vs thirteen 50% chances

E.g Chelsea vs City, Chelsea had about 4 chances on goal and all 3 goals were defenders isolated with a chelsea attacker which makes it a higher quality chance than shooting in the midst of community defence and stats will record that as a shot/chance conceded


WHy counter attacking is effective is that you are able to go one vs one on the defender and it offers you more higher quality chances

If you take those Liverpool or City defenders, put them in Chelsea today they will start keeping clean sheet because of community work

Before Chelsea started community defence, Was it not these same players caught in defence and were conceding?

Liverpool and Mancity Defence have the best underlying defensive statsitics in the league

Not only are they conceding the fewest shots, shots in the box, and overall chances, they are also amongst the teams conceding the fewest BIG CHANCES(what you called the quality chances) in the league.

See stats below.

What they just have is a bunch of imbecides(similar to Boateng at Bayern) that are ensuring that these few chances are converted into goals by the sheer incompetence of the likes of John Stones and Claudio Bravo

Chelsea, Spurs, United and Arsenal are conceding either more shots, chances, or big chances etc but have chopped less goals because they have competent defenders to deal with the chances and prevent them from becoming goals

Nihilist:


Liverpool and Mancity Defence have the best underlying defensive statsitics in the league

Not only are they conceding the fewest shots, shots in the box, and overall chances, they are also amongst the teams conceding the fewest BIG CHANCES(what you called the quality chances) in the league.

See stats below.

What they just have is a bunch of imbecides(similar to Boateng at Bayern) that are ensuring that these few chances are converted into goals by the sheer incompetence of the likes of John Stones and Claudio Bravo

Chelsea, Spurs, United and Arsenal are conceding either more shots, chances, or big chances etc but have chopped less goals because they have competent defenders to deal with the chances and prevent them from becoming goals

You brought the stats . BC is big Chances right? Who has the highest number of BC in this screenshot you posted. Shows they are conceding more big chances than the other top sides.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/4659537_bigchances_png3ddb004d89213de7eb28ef539df1795e

raumdeuter:


You brought the stats . BC is big Chances right? Who has the highest number of BC in this screenshot you posted

www.nairaland.com/attachments/4659537_bigchances_png3ddb004d89213de7eb28ef539df1795e

Where is Arsenal on that List?

Nihilist:
Where is Arsenal on that List?

You just brough stats to validate my point. I doubt I will ever get any person to give me better stats to buttress my points

City conceded 20 Liverpool conceded 20 Arsenal conceded 19

All 3 play possesion and stats you just showed here shows they concede more Big Chances than other big sides

Of all the Big teams, Chelsea has the least possesion and least big chance conceded, I am sure if we normalize and remove the games before community defence Chelseas big chance conceded will even be lower.

Chelsea conceded 11 goals all season, Only 2 since community defence and one of those 2 was a own goal

Do you still say you cant see the relation between possesion, goals conceded and Big chances conceded?

I should dub this session the miseducation and re-education of Nihilist

raumdeuter:


You just brough stats to validate my point.

City conceded 20 Liverpool conceded 20 Arsenal conceded 19

All 3 play possesion and stats you just showed here shows they concede a more Big Chances than other big sides

Do you still say you cant see the relation between possesion, goals conceded and Big chances conceded?

My friend, there is no correlation.

Arsenal has conceded more big chances than Liverpool or City, yet fewer goals. Ditto Middlesbrough.

Everton and WestBrom have conceded far more Big Chances than both Liverpool and City, yet have conceded roughly the same number of goals.

The current top 7 are also the top 7 for possession, so if your theory was true, then there wouldn't be such a disparity with regards to Big Chances conceded

Imbecides in defence are the ones that decide what happens to a chance. It's no coincidence that Liverpool and City are joint 4th in the league for Defensive mistakes, and Liverpool 2nd for Defensive errors leading to goals, with City in joint 4th

Nihilist:
My friend, there is no correlation.
Arsenal has conceded more big chances than Liverpool or City, yet fewer goals. Ditto Middlesbrough.

Yet fewer goals means 1 goal fewer? 19 goals instead of 20?

Everton and WestBrom have conceded far more Big Chances than both Liverpool and City, yet have conceded roughly the same number of goals.

Logically we can only discuss teams within the same level of quality, Makes no sense comparing Atletico to West Brom or Barcelona to Bournemouth since they arent in the same level

The current top 7 are also the top 7 for possession, so if your theory was true, then there wouldn't be such a disparity with regards to Big Chances conceded
Imbecides in defence are the ones that decide what happens to a chance. It's no coincidence that Liverpool and City are joint 4th in the league for Defensive mistakes, and Liverpool 2nd for Defensive errors leading to goals, with City in joint 4th

Defensive errors leading to goals is because there are fewer players to cover those errors. While for community defending we have more players who are available to cover the mistake. e.g the one below here. A mistake was made it should have led to a goal but the only reason this mistake wont register on the stat sheet was because there was a community member to clear it

[img]http:///media/12-26-2016/N-nPAv.gif[/img]

raumdeuter:




Logically we can only discuss teams within the same level of quality, Makes no sense comparing Atletico to West Brom or Barcelona to Bournemouth since they arent in the same level

The current top 7 are also the top 7 for possession, so if your theory was true, then there wouldn't be such a disparity with regards to Big Chances conceded

Defensive errors leading to goals is because there are fewer players to cover those errors. While for community defending we have more players who are available to cover the mistake. e.g the one below here. A mistake was made it should have led to a goal but the only reason this mistake wont register on the stat sheet was because there was a community member to clear it

Defensive errors are also logged and like I showed you earlier, City and Liverpool are joint 4th fourth for defensive errors

Nihilist:

The current top 7 are also the top 7 for possession, so if your theory was true, then there wouldn't be such a disparity with regards to Big Chances conceded

Yes because those top 7 are the only comparable sides below that their is a gulf in quality to make any reasonable comparison

Among big clubs the difference in possesion of 6 points which is the difference bettwen City/Liverpool and Chelsea is significant. E.g In current La Liga the difference in possesion between Barcelona the greatest possesion side (Among the elite clubs) and Atletico (One of the most defensive sides among elite clubs) is just 11 points

Defensive errors are also logged and like I showed you earlier, City and Liverpool are joint 4th fourth for defensive errors

When City makes an error in the halfway line the opponent gets a free run at goal and scores, when Chelsea loses the big at the half way line, there are 3-4 other players to cover and that even doesnt get registered as an error

raumdeuter:


Yes because those top 7 are the only comparable sides below that their is a gulf in quality to make any reasonable comparison

Among big clubs the difference in possesion of 6 points which is the difference bettwen City/Liverpool and Chelsea is significant

Rephrase this. I'm not quite sure I follow

When City makes an error in the halfway line the opponent gets a free run at goal and scores, when Chelsea loses the big at the half way line, there are 3-4 other players to cover and that even doesnt get registered as an error

Says who?

Nihilist:
Rephrase this. I'm not quite sure I follow
Says who?

Chelsea has benefitted from the community defence and has made their defenders look better than they actually are. We saw earlier in the season when they were in sixes and sevens until the same players are now keeping clean sheets

Chelsea has the lowest possesion of the top teams, they concede less big chances and they make less errors leading to goals and less error in particular because there is always someone behind to cover

If you bring those same Chelsea defenders to City to play in that high line I am certain they will be back to their early season uselessness

I remember when some months ago when some were trying to compare Neuer and DDG when we tell them to show us crucial performance they said because IFFHS named DDG as 2nd

Now IFFHS don come this yr again and DDG barely made top 5

RANKING 2016
1- Manuel Neuer (Germany/FC Bayern München) 156 points
2- Gianluigi Buffon (Italy/Juventus Torino FC) 91 points
3- Rui Patricio (Portugal/Sporting Portugal) 50 points
4- Claudio Bravo (Chile/FC Barcelona/Manchester City FC) 45 points
5- David De Gea (Spain/Manchester United FC) 37 points
6- Jan Oblak (Slovenia/Club Atletico de Madrid) 31 points
7- Hugo Lloris (France/Tottenham Hotspur FC) 29 points
8- Keylor Navas (Costa Rica/Real Madrid CF) 18 points
9- Thibaut Courtois (Belgium/Chelsea FC) 13 points
10-Denis Onyango (Uganda/Mamelodi Sundowns) 5 points
11-Petr Cech (Cech Republic/Arsenal London FC) 4 points
12-Samir Handanovic (Slovenia/FC Inter Milano) 2 points
13-Marc André Ter Stegen (Germany/FC Barcelona) 1 point

pkasso:
Have you actually taken time out to watch Luiz this season rather than relying on what some people say? He has been the best CB in the EPL by a mile. Even Ramuzaki sef no fit talk.

You know a player is shyte when the CEO of his club decides to criticize him in the public.

http://in.mobile.reuters.com/article/idINKBN0DJ0G420140503

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3967538/Bayern-Munich-chief-Karl-Heinz-Rummenigge-says-good-Jerome-Boateng-came-earth-bit-poor-display.html


That's why I like Kalle, the guy no dey send.

I have actually watched Luiz quite a few times this season. He has been pretty decent this season I admit but I am still not buying the hype. It's no coincidence his game improved as soon as chelsea switched from a back two to a back three. It will take more than a few games to convince me calamity luiz is a better defender.

Ibime:


The contribution of the others is more than the contribution of Boateng.

Boatengs contribution has been 5-0 hammerings every UCL semifinal and turning into headless chicken that can't organise one iota of defence. He is a field nigga, not a House nigga to use colourful analogy. Field nigga is the one who does all the running and physical work eg Kolo Toure while house nigga is the one who organises where his teammates should position themselves eg Sol Campbell.

BoaDUMB is a field nigga. A real stupid modaphucka.

Whether the contribution of others was more than Jerome's is not being disputed here. However we can not deny that He played Key roles in winning titles for two of the biggest institutions in world footy. Lucky? I think not.

5-0 hammering you say. How about Him being part of the defence that got to back to back CL Finals? Does that not count? Tbh i'd happily take a Field Ni@$a that puts up good peformances over a house N@$a that does not.

chic2pimp:


Whether the contribution of others was more than Jerome's is not being disputed here. However we can not deny that He played Key roles in winning titles for two of the biggest institutions in world footy. Lucky? I think not.

5-0 hammering you say. How about Him being part of the defence that got to back to back CL Finals? Does that not count? Tbh i'd happily take a Field Ni@$a that puts up good peformances over a house N@$a that does not.

The team had a well-oiled attack, comprising of ribery, muller and robben killing opposition for free upfront. Neuer was there to save boathand azz everytime. I had posted many videos where Neuer saved boathands own goals and penalties he caused. Those ones neuer didnt find answers to, their attackers rose to the occasion and erase any memory of boathand's effect. Now ribery and robben are not as effective like they were in the past. Thats why rostov got away with that win off boathand's stvpid defending.

airmark:


Yes burnthisleaguedown is full of epl loanees/tired legs. There's a reason hector lamented few days ago, that in germany, players fall easily like boneless beings. Can you name one world class defender from that burnthisleaguedown, apart from those in bayern and dortmund that you can buy into your team? We fell for baba rahman, we quickly offloaded him back to the league on loan. Why wont they celebrate boathand , a mediocre as the best thing from that clime? Was boathand not fully fit when he raised his two hands to stop an up ball at euros? Was he not fit when hazard froze him like mavros, when oscar massacred him, when messi buried him, when martinez undressed him? Earlier this season ajakaja40 and his master were bragging that the mumu was back to his best, not knowing the likes of griezzman and azzmoun were lurking around the corner to put the final nail on his coffin. He defends like an amateur, carrying all his body to defend without plan b and gets smacked down by juveniles and vets. Luiz so far has been doing well and has improved unless you haven't been following him this term. 9 out of 10 big coaches will prefer luiz to a crashing boathand. Bayern's exploit in europe has been helpful to the league's high rating. While mou and wenger are crying, cos of tight end of the year schedule, the german league is on a month break. Tell me why wont bayern be refreshed for ucl when it resumes? Ancelotti didn't make below comment for fun. His problem is ucl, where the likes of messi, neymar, griezmann are waiting to feast on boathand.

Worldclass is a strong word. Tbh there are nowhere near enough quality central defenders in league football these days. Let's use the EPL for example, you can count on one hand the number of worldclass defenders there.
Chelsea- Zilch
Liverpool- Nada
City- Odo
Arsenal- For where.

As you can see it's not just the Nazi's League alone that lacks strength in depth in that department. As I said already,no defender is immune from making mistakes. The same Euros He made that mistake was the same one He was voted into the Team of the tournament. I too can also make gifs of Thuram or Baresi making mistakes and say hey look at these atrocious defenders. It's not that hard hence why youtube can make even the worse of actors look like oscar worthy winners.

Think I and dayo already had that argument about the
EPL being the most physically demanding league in the world and I stand by that but let's not pretend Hitler's League is the only one with a winter break. All the top leagues have it. Which UCL? The one that He played back to back finals in?

airmark:


The team had a well-oiled attack, comprising of ribery, muller and robben killing opposition for free upfront. Neuer was there to save boathand azz everytime. I had posted many videos where Neuer saved boathands own goals and penalties he caused. Those ones neuer didnt find answers to, their attackers rose to the occasion and erase any memory of boathand's effect. Now ribery and robben are not as effective like they were in the past. Thats why rostov got away with that win off boathand's stvpid defending.

Let me remind you that we are talking about Jupp's Bayern here not Pep's. These dudes had more defending to do as opposed to Pep's who simply dominated possesion. If Boateng is half as bad as you say He is why does the Bayern management still insist on playing Him? It's not like filthy rich Bayern are suddenly broke is it?I'm sure they can get 3 or so above average defenders to replace it, No?. I'd also put the blame of 4-0, 5-0 thrashing on Pep. If a coach sends his team out with the wrong formation, you are simply asking for trouble. I, as a Milan Fan knows that first hand. I remember vividly getting absolutely spanked at the riazor with Nesta and Maldini at the heart of defence. And no one in their right mind will call those 2 aforementioned players mediocre.

chic2pimp:


Let me remind you that we are talking about Jupp's Bayern here not Pep's. These dudes had more defending to do as opposed to Pep's who simply dominated possesion. If Boateng is half as bad as you say He is why does the Bayern management still insist on playing Him? It's not like filthy rich Bayern are suddenly broke is it?I'm sure they can get 3 or so above average defenders to replace it, No?. I'd also put the blame of 4-0, 5-0 thrashing on Pep. If a coach sends his team out with the wrong formation, you are simply asking for trouble. I, as a Milan Fan knows that first hand. I remember vividly getting absolutely spanked at the riazor with Nesta and Maldini at the heart of defence. And no one in their right mind will call those 2 aforementioned players mediocre.

They tried in the past, but only God knows what always made anyone who could upstage the alagolo fell off. Badstuber was a better defender, he used almost all his career years treating injuries. Benatia was bought as dependable defender, only to have all different types of injuries affecting all parts of his body. So efforts were made. Meanwhile, Boathand can be managed to win burnthisleaguedown as the league is full of moribund strikers, thats easy. UCL is where his errors are mostly highlighted. Meanwhile , as regards jupp era, where were you when his coach made the statement below? If the calamitous defender doesn't possess german p, he would have been sent to kumasi since.

raumdeuter:
The closest of pkasso allies are the rabid anti Bayern. We know what your intentions are here. Its to sabotage from within we can clearly see through you

I have had many disagreements with even A40 here ranging from our opinion on Pep, Gotze etc. But pkasso goes from Barca to Milan to Bayern

So tell us how many other clubs do you actively support

When rival fans always see an ally in a so called Bayern fan against his own club no one needs to tell us he is an enemy agent

Go back to supporting Barca, Milan or any other club that catches your fancy this week

If an anti Bayern poster his coming here, the first internal support they look for is pkasso and in most cases he agrees with them because their intentions are similar

No mind that Brutus a.k.a Alabosi pkasso. Na confirmed informant. I no know why he dey drag me into argument despite me maintaining my distance

raumdeuter:
This is David Luiz and the Chelsea defence without community defence. This is to show that community defenders are mostly hiding under joint effort. when isolated they are useless like Luiz and Terry

[img]http:///media/12-26-2016/1RjD1Y.gif[/img]

No be the same David Lulz led a Defense on his home soil to leak 7 goals. Abeg na holidays I dey make man rest.

chic2pimp:

Whether the contribution of others was more than Jerome's is not being disputed here. However we can not deny that He played Key roles in winning titles for two of the biggest institutions in world footy. Lucky? I think not.

5-0 hammering you say. How about Him being part of the defence that got to back to back CL Finals? Does that not count? Tbh i'd happily take a Field Ni@$a that puts up good peformances over a house N@$a that does not.

"5-0 hammering every CL semis" shey you can see Ibime and him burukutu analysis. Didn't Barca lose 7-0? Didn't his Chelsea get sodomized 6-0 last season by City

No defender currently employed at that useless club Chelsea have a World Cup and CL Title to their name. Since 2012 they have not sniffed Boateng's minimum which is a CL Semi. At International level we all know say that one na no-go area. Let them keep hating Boateng who only needs a Euro to complete his trophy list

Aja 40 don show face. .

chic2pimp:

Worldclass is a strong word. Tbh there are nowhere near enough quality central defenders in league football these days. Let's use the EPL for example, you can count on one hand the number of worldclass defenders there.
Chelsea- Zilch
Liverpool- Nada
City- Odo
Arsenal- For where.

As you can see it's not just the Nazi's League alone that lacks strength in depth in that department. As I said already,no defender is immune from making mistakes. The same Euros He made that mistake was the same one He was voted into the Team of the tournament. I too can also make gifs of Thuram or Baresi making mistakes and say hey look at these atrocious defenders. It's not that hard hence why youtube can make even the worse of actors look like oscar worthy winners.

Think I and dayo already had that argument about the
EPL being the most physically demanding league in the world and I stand by that but let's not pretend Hitler's League is the only one with a winter break. All the top leagues have it. Which UCL? The one that He played back to back finals in?

Apoche cra cra is suffering from Apollo of the brain. In a 3 year span from 2012-2014 Boateng played 3 major Finals and won 2. His team conceding just 2 goals in 330 mins of football (one of them a Pk). What is even more amusing is none of the defenders he swears are better than Boateng can boast of such a feat. If you even want to diss Boateng at least bring up better defenders not clowns like John Racist, David Lulz ati be be lo

mm

Alabosi moRATA pkasso. Nobody got time for your Brutus moves. Stay in your lane

airmark:


They tried in the past, but only God knows what always made anyone who could upstage the alagolo fell off. Badstuber was a better defender, he used almost all his career years treating injuries. Benatia was bought as dependable defender, only to have all different types of injuries affecting all parts of his body. So efforts were made. Meanwhile, Boathand can be managed to win burnthisleaguedown as the league is full of moribund strikers, thats easy. UCL is where his errors are mostly highlighted. Meanwhile , as regards jupp era, where were you when his coach made the statement below? If the calamitous defender doesn't possess german p, he would have been sent to kumasi since.

Thisis why you are known as the most ignorant cum stupid poster of this section

Juup bought Boateng and planned used Boateng and Badstuber as his main defence pairing

Later he bought Dante and the main defensive pairing became Boateng and Dante. After Dante started messing up we bought Benatia.

This season Benatia was loaned out and we bought Hummels.

All our defensive purchases were to find a partner for Boateng never to replace him

raumdeuter:
I remember some months ago when some used to compare Neuer and DDG using some fake awards

Now lets see how DDG is faring
RANKING 2016
1- Manuel Neuer (Germany/FC Bayern München) 156 points
2- Gianluigi Buffon (Italy/Juventus Torino FC) 91 points
3- Rui Patricio (Portugal/Sporting Portugal) 50 points
4- Claudio Bravo (Chile/FC Barcelona/Manchester City FC) 45 points
5- David De Gea (Spain/Manchester United FC) 37 points
6- Jan Oblak (Slovenia/Club Atletico de Madrid) 31 points
7- Hugo Lloris (France/Tottenham Hotspur FC) 29 points
8- Keylor Navas (Costa Rica/Real Madrid CF) 18 points
9- Thibaut Courtois (Belgium/Chelsea FC) 13 points
10-Denis Onyango (Uganda/Mamelodi Sundowns) 5 points
11-Petr Cech (Cech Republic/Arsenal London FC) 4 points
12-Samir Handanovic (Slovenia/FC Inter Milano) 2 points
13-Marc André Ter Stegen (Germany/FC Barcelona) 1 point
_ "0

To be fair only Man u fans actively compare DDG to Neuer even other EPL fans know wassup

pkasso:
Tell the agbaya to drop any of my posts on the Milan thread. That was how he and his boy-boy claimed I used to be a Gunner.

The Barca bit is clear. I was once a Cule and I have never denied it. I stopped supporting Barca, the best team in the world for reasons best known to me. Bayern weren't even this dominant, at least in Europe when I became a fan. Show me another fan who would swap the best team in the world for a sleeping giant.

Dayo is a hypocrite. The same man said he used to support Ajax and Juventus in the 90's. Obviously, you outsiders don't know much about what goes on here. History plenty. Most people here don't know me and A40 used to be cool back in the day. Raumdeuter makes enemies with those who have opinions contrary to his. Toba is a classic example. They both were the only Bayern fans on the forum when I joined. The details are a bit fuzzy now but I think it was after that painful Cl final loss to Chelsea. They had different opinions. Things changed between them.Raumdeuter antagonized the guy right until he deactivated.

Lmao. Alabosi! No one knew you as a Cule till I exposed you. Opuro oshi

You didn't become a regular here till after the treble so turn the dodo to the other side. We don't believe you you need more people. You stopped supporting Barca after the 7-0 game. Nobody got time for your unverifiable story for the gods.

Keep ma name out your mouth brah.

A40:

To be fair only Man u fans actively compare DDG to Neuer even other EPL fans know wassup

Soon they will turn to cortouis as their better than Neuer option

Like they started with Boateng comapring him to Cahill after that one cast they started with Luiz, that one cast dey went to Terry that one caught fire when he was exposed to scrutiny

raumdeuter:


Thisis why you are known as the most ignorant cum stupid poster of this section

Juup bought Boateng and planned used Boateng and Badstuber as his main defence pairing

Later he bought Dante and the main defensive pairing became Boateng and Dante. After Dante started messing up we bought Benatia.

This season Benatia was loaned out and we bought Hummels.

All our defensive purchases were to find a partner for Boateng never to replace him

You must be outta ya mind if you think boathand was the main thing. The same boathand pushed as rb during rotation, when the likes of van buyten held sway those days, before injuries and sickness affected them. Why do you think juup bought dante, after complaining boathand was making stvpid errors and should stop? Continue deceiving yourself. The club president had given him the last warning, next time he will land in china to join oscar.