I mean take a look at the achievements of the Edo Kingdom and the Oyo Empire. Take a look at how the people who constitute today's Nigeria lived and traded. The discord were mostly intraethnic venoms but look where we are today. Take a look at the hatred between the Igbos and the Yorubas. Take a look at the cold war between Fulanis and the Hausas. The TIVs and the Idomas. The Ijaws and the Urhobos. Look around you. Was such hatred in existence and where it was, was it given a warm embrace? What is wrong in going back if the current situation is full of pains? Why do we hate each other but still frown at secessionists? Isn't it a problem of the uncivilization of our minds?

Rossiki

Rossikk:


So you're ''ignorant of'' the above major Nigerian museums, including National Museum Benin City, yet you had the audacity to loudly proclaim that ''Nigerian museums are a disgrace''. Wouldn't it have been better for you to have VISITED those museums first before condemning them before the entire world as ''a disgrace''? See how some of you Nigerians are your country's worst enemies?

I have seen pictures of them on the web and think we can and should do much better. The Museo Nacional de Antropología in Mexico, for instance, puts any museum we have to shame.

1Sharon:


Interesting. But they were the first to interact with the foreigners

The Benin empire was very powerful, and its leaders saw the slave trade as a negative development capable of weakening the empire. So it was banned. At one point a few women were allowed to be sold, but even that became prohibited.

In truth, the places which fell most to the slave trade were those regions with less centralized/powerful govt and administrative structures, like the coastal villages and dispersed villages and chiefdoms of the Igbos, Efiks and so on.. Centralized empires like Benin, Oyo, and the Hausa States resisted or otherwise tightly controlled/limited the trade in their respective regions.

budaatum:

I have seen pictures of them on the web and think we can and should do much better. The Museo Nacional de Antropología in Mexico, for instance, puts any museum we have to shame.

Saying they can do better is a far cry from calling them ''a disgrace''.

Learn to choose your words better.

Rossikk:


Saying they can do better is a far cry from calling them ''a disgrace''.

Learn to choose your words better.

I do see the one's I've visited as a disgrace I'm afraid. We can do much better and should. I must admit however that the one in Benin, going by pictures of it that I have seen, is a great leap forward, compared to the ones I have visited.

budaatum:

I do see the one's I've visited as a disgrace I'm afraid. We can do much better and should. I must admit however that the one in Benin, going by pictures of it that I have seen, is a great leap forward, compared to the ones I have visited.

Here are more pics from National Museum Benin City:

Sapiosexuality:
I mean take a look at the achievements of the Edo Kingdom and the Oyo Empire. Take a look at how the people who constitute today's Nigeria lived and traded. The discord were mostly intraethnic venoms but look where we are today. Take a look at the hatred between the Igbos and the Yorubas. Take a look at the cold war between Fulanis and the Hausas. The TIVs and the Idomas. The Ijaws and the Urhobos. Look around you. Was such hatred in existence and where it was, was it given a warm embrace? What is wrong in going back if the current situation is full of pains? Why do we hate each other but still frown at secessionists? Isn't it a problem of the uncivilization of our minds?

Rossiki

I don't know where you get this ''we all hate each other'' stuff from. When I drive around any Nigerian city, I see Igbos, Yorubas, Hausas, Bini, Efik, Tiv, Igala, Itsekiri, etc all getting along just fine. In the markets, in the banks, in the nightclubs, in bukas, everywhere. I see inter-marriage on a daily basis among people of differing ethnicities.

Stop assuming that this trash talking we see on nairaland by these jobless online ethnic warlords is any sort of indication of what current relations are among Nigeria's ethnicities. Neither are incendiary media comments by the likes of Kanu, FFK, OBJ, and other attention-seeking malcontents indicative of a general malaise of inter-ethnic animosity. Sure, there is ethnic rivalry and competition at the political level, but that's to be expected.

seunmsg:



Benin Obas till date are actually Yorubas. The present Benin royalty was founded by Eweka I, a direct son of Oranmiyan. Oranmiyan founded the great Oyo empire before returning to reign as the sixth Ooni of Ile Ife.

A Benin Prince migrated to Ile-Ife and became Oduduwa ( or was Oduduwa born at Ile-Ife?) The same Prince's son returned back to Benin as Oramiyan.

Oramiyan is the grand son of Ogiso Owodo ( the last of the Ogiso's dynasty) and Oba Eweka 1 is the great-grandson of Ogiso Owodo who is also the father of Ekhaladerhan ( Oduduwa ).

seunmsg:


Because Ife is the source of mankind. Yoruba, Igbo, Edo, etc all lived in Ile Ife before they migrated to found different kingdoms. Benin was in chaos after the fall of the Ogiso dynasty. They needed a blue blood to restore normalcy and it was only logical that they asked the Ife royalty to send a prince to rule the city. In those days, there was no silly and egoistic war of tribes like we have today.

Beyond your questions though, you can’t argue against the fact that Oranmiyan was a Yoruba man. You also cannot argue against the fact that he was the father of Eweka. And you can’t deny the fact that the present Benin royalty are descendants of Eweka. We cannot change or rewrite history.

Laughable!!! Adam and Eve are from there too?

No one is also denying the fact that the present Ooni is a descendant of Ogiso.

Born2Breed:



A Benin Prince migrated to Ile-Ife and became Oduduwa ( or was Oduduwa born at Ile-Ife?) The same Prince's son returned back to Benin as Oramiyan.

Oramiyan is the grand son of Ogiso Owodo ( the last of the Ogiso's dynasty) and Oba Eweka 1 is the great-grandson of Ogiso Owodo who is also the father of Ekhaladerhan ( Oduduwa ).

Ekhaladeehan or whatever you call the banished Ogiso prince died at Ughiton. He never made it to Ile Ife not to talk of becoming Oduduwa. TAO11 already addressed this issue so, there is no point wasting time over it again. Go to page 3 of this thread and get yourself properly educated.

And yes, Oduduwa was born at Ile Ife before sojourning out of the city. He later came back to rule the city and establish the Ooni dynasty. His grandson established the Alaafin dynasty in Oyo and the Eweka dynasty is Benin. Your Oba of Benin is a Yoruba man and no amount of fake history can change that fact.

Born2Breed:


Laughable!!! Adam and Eve are from there too?

No one is also denying the fact that the present Ooni is a descendant of Ogiso.

Yorubas have been existing long before the Jews came up with their Adam and Eve mythology.

You can google IWO ELERU. The skeletal remains that were excavated from that burial site predates your Adam and Eve story by thousands of years.

You can chose to believe whatever mythology that suits your narrative though. As far as I’m concerned, Ile Ife is the source of humanity. Life started at Ile Ife.

onez:
I'm becoming more confident that yoruba Obas have their ancestry from Benin kingdom. They may be probably renegades from Benin Royal family. I wish a DNA study can be done on it.

U are seriously unserious

seunmsg:



Ekhaladeehan or whatever you call the barnished Ogiso prince died at Ughiton. He never made it to Ile Ife not to talk of becoming Oduduwa. TAO11 already addressed this issue so, there is no point wasting time over it again. Go to page 2 of this thread and get yourself properly educated.

And yes, Oduduwa was born at Ile Ife before sojourning out of the city. He later came back to rule the city and establish the Ooni dynasty. His grandson established the Alaafin dynasty in Oyo and the Eweka dynasty is Benin. Your Oba of Benin is a Yoruba man and no amount of fake history can change that fact.

You are 100% absolutely correct my brother.

It is so unfortunate that the Bini people of this age prefer fiction to fact.

Although the problem is not really in their preference of fiction to fact, but rather in their presentation of fiction as fact.

seunmsg:



Ekhaladeehan or whatever you call the barnished Ogiso prince died at Ughiton. He never made it to Ile Ife not to talk of becoming Oduduwa. TAO11 already addressed this issue so, there is no point wasting time over it again. Go to page 2 of this thread and get yourself properly educated.
prolog311 prolog
And yes, Oduduwa was born at Ile Ife before sojourning out of the city. He later came back to rule the city and establish the Ooni dynasty. His grandson established the Alaafin dynasty in Oyo and the Eweka dynasty is Benin. Your Oba of Benin is a Yoruba man and no amount of fake history can change that fact.

Banished to Ughoton and died there?

Stop spewing trash that being dished out by those who knows nothing of the origin of Oduduwa....oh he was born at Ile-Ife sojourned out and later returned.

He went to Mecca right? Keep deluding yourself!

seunmsg:


Yorubas have been existing long before the Jews came up with their Adam and Eve mythology.

You can google IWO ELERU. The skeletal remains that were excavated from that burial site outdated your Adam and Eve story.

You can chose to believe whatever mythology that suits your narrative though. As far as I’m concerned, Ile Ife is the source of humanity. Life started at Ile Ife.

Yes, you are also 100% absolutely correct about this too my brother.

Archaeological excavations at a rock shelter at Iwo Eleru near Akure produced human bones radiocarbon-dated to c. 7,000 BCE.


However, the Biblical dating of of Adam and Eve is based, on one hand, on the extremely detailed genealogical data (from Adam to Abraham) found in Chapters 4, 5, 11, 21 and 25 of Genesis.

An analysis of these extremely detailed numbers found in those chapters yields a period of 1,948 years separating Adam from Abraham.


On the other hand, the most conservative estimates of the period of time separating Abraham from the beginnings of Christianity (based on some Biblical data) is c. 1,850 years.

[see: "Abraham" in O. Odelain and R. Séguineau (Trans. M. J. O'Connell), Dictionary Of Proper Names And Places In The Bible, 1981, Robert Hale Ltd.: London, p. 7.; among other conservative sources like the Anchor Bible Dictionary, etc.]

Hence, according to Biblical information, Adam is situated at c. 3,798 BCE.


In sum, Even IF a Christian considers the Bible (and all its contents) to be absolutely reliable, there is still a problem.

The problem remains that Adam and Eve can not possibly (according to the Judeo-Christian accounts) be the earliest of human creations because the Bible numbers obviously situate them at c. 3,798 BCE; while hard indisputable archaeological evidence situates human activities in Yoruba land to at least c. 7,000 BCE.

domino4211:
The Great Benin City..
I remember those walls and fractals.
.
Those are the places benin ancestors used to gather for group masturbation.
Those good old days.
No wonder modern day Benin is cursed with cultism,rape,armed robbery and many other criminal activities.
*spits

You are lucky you are hiding behind a keyboard to say this. Can you dare go to Benin and alter this words straight out of your mouth physically?

Rossikk:


I don't know where you get this ''we all hate each other'' stuff from. When I drive around any Nigerian city, I see Igbos, Yorubas, Hausas, Bini, Efik, Tiv, Igala, Itsekiri, etc all getting along just fine. In the markets, in the banks, in the nightclubs, in bukas, everywhere. I see inter-marriage on a daily basis among people of differing ethnicities.

Stop assuming that this trash talking we see on nairaland by these jobless online ethnic warlords is any sort of indication of what current relations are among Nigeria's ethnicities. Neither are incendiary media comments by the likes of Kanu, FFK, OBJ, and other attention-seeking malcontents indicative of a general malaise of inter-ethnic animosity. Sure, there is ethnic rivalry and competition at the political level, but that's to be expected.

Do you really believe this? Do you really? I doubt you believe what you wrote up there. Not the same Nigeria I've toured. Denying a truth does not eradicate its existence. Pretending peace is a dangerous delusion. If you check your posts carefully and honestly and try to weigh your outbursts to the secessionists, you will notice this hatred not just for their deology but for their existence. I don't really believe there is any Nigerian intellectual who really believes that there is no hatred here. I can't believe that.

I'm also curious and would like to know if you follow these imported religions. If these people messed us up as you often say, which I agree, what would it make a follower of Christianity or Islam?


Rossiki

Rossikk:


The Benin empire was very powerful, and its leaders saw the slave trade as a negative development capable of weakening the empire. So it was banned. At one point a few women were allowed to be sold, but even that became prohibited.

In truth, the places which fell most to the slave trade were those regions with less centralized/powerful govt and administrative structures, like the coastal villages and dispersed villages and chiefdoms of the Igbos, Efiks and so on.. Centralized empires like Benin, Oyo, and the Hausa States resisted or otherwise tightly controlled/limited the trade in their respective regions.

Brazilians still speak Yoruba. Benin and Oyo were on the slave coast

A lot of ignorance here.

You people need to learn the difference between mythology religion and history.

For one, the Oba of Benin is not a king, he's a Priest, or conduit for God.
The story of a Benin 'king' 'coming' from Ile Ife is not backed by any evidence, but being an Oba is a craft and if someone said he went to ile ife to learn than ok.
But it's not a bloodline thing. Oba is a Benin title and none of the Yoruba priests not called monarchs because of British misunderstanding, go by the title Oba unless they were installed by the Oba

ah please not again.

Answer this question please.

Why would Benin people go to Ile Ife to ask for a king?

The relationship between the Bini people and the Yoruba people is very very ancient, although many think it begins with the 17th-century military expedition of Benin kingdom to the Lagos region when the peaceful Awori aboriginals were invaded by the Bini Navy.

In fact, the relationship between these two peoples (Edos and Yorubas) goes back even to centuries before the 12th?century expedition of Oranmiyan to Benin kingdom (known then as Igodomigodo land).

Many actually think the relationship begins with Oranmiyan. No, the relationship goes to the very foundations of Igodomigodo land.

Prior to the dynasty known as the Oba Dynasty of Benin Kingdom which was founded by Oranmiyan and his son Eweka, the Edo people had what is known as the Ogiso Dynasty of Igodomigodo Land in which the rulers obviously were called Ogisos or Sky-Kings (from the Edo words: Ogie meaning King and Iso meaning Sky).


The Ogiso Dynasty of Igodomigodo Land produced many Ogisos or Sky-kings with the last of them being an Ogiso whose name is Owodo. The Edos obviously abandoned the Ogiso Dynasty at the time of Ogiso Owodo. The reason was simple, the Dynasty experienced a natural failure and hence collapse during his reign.


The following is some of the details of the account as contained in diverse authoritative historical sources on Benin kingdom:

The last Ogiso (or Sky-King) whose name is Owodo (i.e. Ogiso Owodo ) was banished from the land because his rule witnessed excessive mis-administration, failure, cruelty, and anxiety. However, Evin-an who succeeded him as an administrator during the period of interregnum sought to perpetuate his own lineage by appointing his own son, Ogiamwen, as his successor (contrary to a prior decision by the elders and notables). The Edo elders and notables, however, resisted them and reacted against them by despatching an embassy to THEIR OLUKUMI KINDREDS AT UHE (i.e. IFE) asking that a ruler be sent to Igodomigodo to rule them instead.


[Refer to: Roger Blench and Matthew Spriggs, Archaeology and Language I: Theoretical and Methodological Orientations, 2003, p. 313. see also: J. U. Egharevba: A Short History of Benin, 1953 (2d ed.: Benin City) cited in G. A. Akinola, "The Origin of The Eweka Dynasty of Benin: A Study In the Use and Abuse Of Oral Traditions", Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria, Vol. 8, No. 3 (December 1976), pp. 22 - 23. among several other authoritative sources.]


The above citation shows clearly that there has always been a relationship of common ancestry between the Edos and the Yorubas even before Oranmiyan went to Igodomigodo. This fact is attested to in both the mythology/oral traditions of the Ife people and the Edo people. And these oral traditions are (to some extent) corroborated and augmented by more solid historical sources and documentations.



The Yorubas' mythology of origin states that every culture and civilization sprang from Ile-Ife to other places (including the Edos, the Ijaws, the Igbos, as well as every ancient culture of the world).

Now, the foregoing mythology of origin of the Yorubas sounds very grandiose, as though every culture will obviously say the same thing about itself. However, an examination of the mythology of origin of the Edos shows that it says almost precisely and exactly the same thing as the Yorubas'.

In other words, the mythology of origin of the Edos appears to agree that the Edos, the Ijaws, the Igbos, etc. have their origin in Ile-Ife as kindred with the Ife people.


A mythology of origin of the Edos found in S. B Omoreige's "Edo History" --- an unpublished typescript publicized c. 1970 --- shows with a flow chart that:

Oghene (God) created Iso (Sky), Ason (Night), and Avan (Day), and that from Iso(Sky) descended: Ame (Water) and Oto (Earth).

The flow chart continues to show that:

Uzon (i.e. the Ijaw people) descended from Ame (Water), and that from Oto (Earth) descended: Igbon (the Igbo people), Idu (the Edo people), and Olukumi (the Ile-Ife people).


This oral tradition clearly shows the common ancestry of the Igbos, the Edos, and the Yorubas according to the mythology of origin of the Edos themselves.

[Refer to: Roger Blench and Matthew Spriggs, Archaeology and Language I: Theoretical and Methodological Orientations, 2003, p. 312. ]



Another mythology of origin of the Edos (known as "Iso Norho" or the myth of the pouring sky) adds more details to the foregoing, and thus puts it more closely to that of the Ifes:


This version adds that:

Uhe (Ile-Ife) was (originally) occupied by Olukumi (Yoruba), Idu (Edo), Igbon (Igbo), and Izon (Ijaw). It stated that Oto (Earth) had committed incest and as a result Iso (Sky) issued Ame (Flood) as punishment for the act. Oghene (God) is said to have come to the rescue because he "did not want the children to suffer undue hardship."

Oghene (God) is then said to have "By means of a chain ... poured sand on the flood water to form dry land for their habitation." After Idu's death, his children (Akka, Efa, and Emehi) are all said to have "to migrate from Uhe to the present site of Benin City --- then called Ubini --- where they displaced a group of original settlers Ivbirinwineko ("dwarfs from the spirit world" )."

[Refer to: Roger Blench and Matthew Spriggs, Archaeology and Language I: Theoretical and Methodological Orientations, 2003, pp. 312 - 313. see also: Michael Crowder: The Story of Nigeria, pp 63. ]


We, therefore, see very clearly from the foregoing mythology of origin of the Edos that not only do the Edos share common ancestry (i.e. Oto ) with the Yorubas, they both originally inhabited Ile-Ife alongside the Igbos and the Ijaws before they (i.e. the Edos), the Igbos, and the Ijaws later obviously resettled. --- This is according to the mythology of origin of the Edos themselves.



The foregoing mythology of origin of the Edos and the Yorubas (which says essentially the same thing) is further corroborated and augmented by more solid historical documentation in the works of experts like Amaury Talbot, J. U. Egharevba, Dmitri M. Bondarenko among others.

Although there is some inconsequent slight discrepancy in details from one expert to the other (as well as some varying degree of details), their conclusions, however, are in the same direction.


Amaury Talbot, who is the first-ever 19th-century expert on the Ife-Benin relationship, notes that:


" According to tradition the first king of the country was Igudu ... A Yoruba Chief, named Erhe, stated to be the Awgenni of Ufe ("in Yoruba Awni of Ife" ), arrived with a small following, but did not gain much power. His son Ogiso also made little headway and later returned to Ife ... c. 1300 ."

[Refer to: P. Amaury Talbot: The Peoples of Southern Nigeria, 1926 (London), Vol. I, pp. 153. ]



In a similar vein, Chief J. U. Egharevba (who is the first and earliest indigenous compiler of a history of Benin kingdom in 1933) also writes about the Ogiso as being originally from Uhe (Ife). He notes:


" Many, many years ago, Odua ["Oduduwa"] of Uhe ["Ile-Ife"] the father and progenitor of the Yoruba kings sent his eldest son Obagodo --- who took the title of Ogiso --- with a large retinue all the way from Uhe to found a Kingdom in this part of the world."

[Refer to: J. U. Egharevba: A Short History of Benin,1936 (1st ed.: Lagos), pp. 7. ]



Likewise, Dmitri M. Bondarenko of the Institute for African Studies in the Russian Academy of Sciences notes in a more emphatic form that the first three Ogisos of Igodomigodo were emissaries, from the Ooni of Ife, on a mission to establish a monarchy in Igodomigodo.

The following are the precise words of Dmitri M. Bondarenko in the paper entitled The Benin Kingdom (13th – 19th Centuries) as a Megacommunity:


"The third Ogiso became the last in their Yoruba, Ife line. He returned to Ife but by that time the very institution of the supreme supra-chiefdom ruler had already been established firmly enough in Benin, disregarding its outside origin and correspondence to the level of sociopolitical organization, not achieved by the Bini yet ."



All these foregoing expert documentation and scholarly attestations from the leading experts in the world in the area of "Ife-Bini Relationship" (as well as the oral tradition/mythology of origin of the Edos themselves) go to establish beyond a shadow of reasonable doubt that there has always been some connection of blood between the Edos and the Ifès, which goes way beyond Oranmiyan and the Eweka dynasty, while extending all the way to the very foundations of the Ogiso dynasty.


The Edos and the Ifès are, therefore, on the basis of authoritative academic scholarship (rather than from an amateurish emotional standpoint), NOT unrelated as has been demonstrated that the Ogisos themselves (at least the first couple of them) were originally from Uhe (Ile-Ife).

TAO11:

The problem remains that Adam and Eve can not possibly (according to the Judeo-Christian accounts) be the earliest of human creations because the Bible numbers obviously situate them at c. 3,798 BCE; while hard indisputablee archaeological evidence situates human activities in Yoruba land to at least c. 7,000 BCE.

Totally agree with you.

Historians have been able to trace the Adam and Eve story to an adaptation of the Sumerian (Sumer is in modern day Iraq) tale of Ninti and Enki.

To make a long story short, Enki out of curiosity eats 8 plants in the paradise of Dilmun (cf. Eve eating the forbidden fruit), Ninhursag considers that a mortal sin, so she causes 8 of Enki's body parts (including his rib) to suffer, and he is on the brink of death. Enlil takes up Enki's cause and persuades Ninhursag to relent, and so various deities then come to heal each of Enki's body parts. The one who heals his rib is the goddess Ninti, whose name means both "lady of the rib," and "lady who makes live," which serves as a pun.

The Roman authors of the Bible wrote as though they were living thousands of years in the past, yet they were living in the first century.

They, the Romans copied and plagerised from various older religious concepts from all around the globe, and
"euhemerized" their characters (stories were created that placed their characters interacting with historical figures i.e Ceasar, King herod, Egyptian Pharaohs e.t.c) so as to seem genuine to the reader.

But they never counted on the sound minds amongst us e.g Rossikk, TAO11, seunmsg, myself and others to catch them out for their fakery and deception.

The main reason most of our ancient artefacts are in the hands of the Westerners is due to the fact that once these are dated properly and accurately, then, all these biblical stories will be blown out of the water.

Yet, even without them being accurately dated, archeology has already proven to everyone that Yoruba predates, Ancient Egypt, Sumeria and anywhere else outside of Africa but the manufactured religions are spending a fortune to try and supress these truth.

Rossikk:


I don't know where you get this ''we all hate each other'' stuff from. When I drive around any Nigerian city, I see Igbos, Yorubas, Hausas, Bini, Efik, Tiv, Igala, Itsekiri, etc all getting along just fine. In the markets, in the banks, in the nightclubs, in bukas, everywhere. I see inter-marriage on a daily basis among people of differing ethnicities.

Stop assuming that this trash talking we see on nairaland by these jobless online ethnic warlords is any sort of indication of what current relations are among Nigeria's ethnicities. Neither are incendiary media comments by the likes of Kanu, FFK, OBJ, and other attention-seeking malcontents indicative of a general malaise of inter-ethnic animosity. Sure, there is ethnic rivalry and competition at the political level, but that's to be expected.

Even in America, there were discontent between the Italians, Irish, Poles and so on and that did not stop the advancement of the American economy and it didn't lead to war. Society is never perfect.

rookidmart:


Where were these so-called "angry ancestral powers" when the Benin niggers were being killed and sold as slaves by the whites?

I don't think the Bini were captured and sold as slaves

....