THIRTEEN logical reasons why Atonement of sin through Jesus crucifixion cannot be true;


1. It is an act of great INJUSTICE and CRUELTY to punish an innocent and righteous person for the sins he did not commit.
The case of a soldier risking his live on the battle field in order to save the lives of others from THE ENEMY is TOTALLY DIFFERENT from the case of an omnipotent father who accept that his only righteous and beloved son MUST BE PUNISHED before he can forgive and ultimately save his adopted children from his OWN punishment ( NOT from the punishment of the ENEMY like the case of a soldier ).

2. Atonement of Sin through Jesus crucifixion leaves no room for REAL divine forgiveness . If God must compulsorily punish someone for our sins, then has He really and truly forgiven anyone ?

3. The finite suffering and temporary death of one soul (for three days and three nights) is DISPROPORTIONATE to the infinite suffering and permanent death of many in the fire of hell. A sacrifice means losing something PERMANENTLY. Of course, all the animals used for atonement sacrifice in the Old testament did not come back to life. However, Jesus lost NOTHING at the end. He came back to life three days later good as new. So, in effect, there was no any sacrifice.

4. The grace of perfect satisfaction of sin through Jesus crucifixion would appear to confer on the Christians a FREEDOM to commit sin without any consequence.

5. It makes God to be an author of contradiction in the sense that God Almighty who says: "An innocent and righteous human being MUST NOT be deliberately killed (Exodus 20:13, Matthew 19:18)" LATER CONTRADICT HIMSELF by saying again: "An innocent and righteous human being ( Jesus) MUST be deliberately killed on the cross of Calvary" before the humanity can be entitled to His salvation.

6. Atonement of sin through Jesus crucifixion is tantamount to washing away one sinful act with ANOTHER SINFUL act that is much more greater . After all, if Adam's eating the forbidden fruit was enough to condemn all the future generations of human being, then would not the brutal killing of the innocent and righteous son of God on the cross by the Children of Adam do the same and even much, much more?
One sinful act ( which itself also need atonement) can never atone for another sinful act. Here is the analogy;
Can the act of theft committed by a Servant against the King be ERASED by the raping of the only King's daughter by the Children of the same Servant ?
It is only an act of pure righteousness ( which itself does not need any atonement) that can atone for sinful acts.

7. NOTHING SEEMS TO HAVE CHANGED since the Crucifixion, both in the Christian and non-Christian worlds. If, according to Christianity, Jesus crucifixion really atoned for the sins of the sinful humanity originated from the disobedience of Adam and his wife then, after the crucifixion; Did tendency to commit sin stop to pass on to the children being born by Christian parents ? Was the punishment prescribed for the Sin abolished ? Did those who believed in Jesus Christ as the ‘Son of God’, if they were women, stop to have painful childbirth (Genesis 3:16) ? Did the believing men start earning their livelihood without exerting manual labour (Genesis 3:17-19) ? If the answer to all of these questions were to be ‘yes,’ then of course there would be some justification in seriously contemplating the Christian philosophy of Sin and Atonement. But Alas, the answer to all these questions are no, no, no and no.
Therefore, If nothing seems to have changed since the Crucifixion, both in the Christian and non-Christian worlds, then what would now be the effect or benefit of sin atonement ?

8. If it is true that Jesus has volunteered himself to die for our sins, then why did he pray so FERVENTLY asking for the crucifixion to be TAKEN AWAY from him not in one time but in THREE different consecutive times (see Matthew 26:36-44) ? If Jesus had truly and willingly laid down his life in heaven to die for our sin, then he must have been prepared by God both physically and spiritually for this great task. In that case, there would be no need for that blood- sweating prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane (Luke 22:44). Even if we assume that Jesus must pray because of the FLESH that is WEAK, then that prayer should definitely be for the "STRENGTH" that will enable him to bear the task. It should NOT be for the cup of crucifixion to be TAKEN AWAY from him.
Furthermore, if Jesus had VOLUNTEERED to laid down his life in heaven, then why did he have to LAMENT on the cross by saying allegedly;
"My God, my God, why have you FORSAKEN me? (Matthew 27:46)".
Does this sound like the voice of a someone who has VOLUNTEERED himself to die for our sins? Certainly not !

9. It is impossible for the righteous to bear the sins of the sinners. Each sinner has to bear and then atone for his own sin through SINCERE REPENTANCE from his sinful ways and then embarking on the acts of RIGHTEOUSNESS. See the evidence directly from God's mouth;
"The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. But if a wicked man TURNS (i:e REPENTS) from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die. NONE OF THE TRANSGRESSIONS which he has committed shall be remembered against him; Because of the RIGHTEOUSNESS which he has done, HE SHALL LIVE. Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should TURN FROM HIS WAYS AND LIVE ? (Ezekiel 18:20-23)".

10. It is totally IRRATIONAL for an innocent, righteous and beloved SON of a merciful and omnipotent FATHER to be under the CURSE of the same father !!!
A good Father is naturally known to always BLESS and never to CURSE his own righteous and beloved son for any reason whatsoever;
Even Paul knew very well that it is IRRATIONAL to believe that Jesus was ACCURSED by God. This is the reason why he contradicts himself by saying as follows;
"Therefore, I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus ACCURSED !” (1st Corinthians 12:3).
Yet the ONLY WAY for Jesus not to become "accursed" was for him NOT to die on the cross since it is clearly written in the the same Bible that ANYONE that is crucified is accursed by God (Deuteronomy 21:23, Galatians 3:13)

11. Jesus was not sent to the entire world to die for our sins. By his own admission: I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel (Matthew 15:24 NIV ).
Why did Jesus have to say such a statement if he was truly sent for the benefit of both the Jews and the Gentiles ? Even if we assume that there was a certain factor at that very moment RESTRICTING his mission to the Jews, then Jesus should have simply told that Canaanite woman; IT IS NOT YET TIME FOR THE GENTILES or something similar in meaning rather than “I WAS SENT ONLY TO THE LOST SHEEP OF ISRAEL (Matthew 15:22-24).

12. No matter how numerous the spiritual benefits that can be derived from Jesus crucifixion, there is no way for such benefits to be ACTUALIZED in the life of the Old Testament believers (like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob,Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah etc) because they have lived and died before Jesus arrival . Yet these people manage to earn their salvation and reconcilation back to God (because there is no any biblical verse that says these Old Testament Saints were in a certain state of condemnation after their death until the time of Jesus crucifixion). So if these old testament believers, who happened to be among the children of Adam, were able to gain their salvation without Jesus crucifixion, then there is alternative way also for the other children of Adam to gain their salvation WITHOUT Jesus crucifixion. Hence there is no need for atonement of sin through Jesus crucifixion.



13. If atonement of sin through Jesus crucifixion is the ONLY WAY to our salvation, then without any doubt, the people who made the crucifixion to be possible (like Judas Iscariot who betrayed Jesus Christ and those who allegedly crucified him) did a very good job and they really deserve our KUDOS and HONOUR. But does it make any iota of sense to give kudos and honour to BETRAYER and MURDERER of an innocent and righteous soul ? See the contradiction!


The atoning work of Christ on the cross of Calvary is one of the FOUNDATIONAL PILLARS upon which the edifice of Christianity is erected . Even when the whole of Christendom disagree on some certain issues like Trinity and Jesus' divinty, they still all agree on the atonement of sin through Jesus crucifixion. Therefore, if atonement of sin through Jesus crucifixion can be shown to be wrong as we have just done, then Christianity as a whole is not true.

instead of you to be bothered about convincing your brothers and sisters killing millions of people in the name of religion, you're here embarrassing yourself better get a life, pls get a purpose for your life...don't be a confident ignorant fellow

@ 2special

Thanks! We have been doing that on another platform

1 Corinthians 1:18, 21, 23, 25
1 Corinthians 2:14,
1 Corinthians 3:19
Absolutely wrong by all human standards but the God of the Bible doesn't think like man. God is God, He glorifies Himself through the most foolish and weakest things of this world.

@ UceeGod


But if Paul's assertion is really true, why would God of reason ( see Isaiah 1:18) ask a natural man to believe and accept a fundamental spiritual doctrine that cannot be understood by him ( 1st Corinthians 2:14 ) and completely foolish to his logical reasoning especially when that reasoning is the ONLY INSTRUMENT at his disposal to recognize that true spirituality in the midst of many fake spiritualities?

If there is only one spirituality in the entire world of human being, then Paul may be right in his claim. But there are many spiritualities like Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Confucianism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism, Baha’ism, Taoism and Sikhism. Since each of these spiritualities is claiming to be on the right path, it is now left for any natural man to use the only instrument ( i:e his logical reasoning) given to him by God to recognize the true spirituality in the midst of many fake spiritualities. This is exactly the reason why God must design the true spirituality in such a way that all its basic and fundamental doctrines would not be in conflict with the basic logical reasoning He bestowed upon a natural man. A fundamental true spiritual doctrine may support or be neutral to basic logical reasoning bestowed upon natural man; but they will never be in conflict with each other. How could true spirituality designed by God and basic logical reasoning originated from the same God be in conflict with each other? If they can be in conflict with each other, then how can a natural man decide whether to accept or reject a true spiritual faith in the midst of many fake spiritual faiths?

Have you now seen how Paul got it wrong by asserting that “the natural man does not receive the things of the spirit, for they are foolishness to him”? Is true spirituality not meant to be accepted and embraced by natural man? Now that it is foolishness to him; how is he going to accept and embrace it?

To see further that Paul is wrong in his claim; suppose you are invited by a friend to accept a religious faith that is very rich in spirituality. But one of its unique and fundamental doctrines you must embrace wholeheartedly is that you have to believe that God MUST commit an act of LYING ( i:e to deliberately say something that is false ) for a short period of time in order for God to achieve a particular target (May God be Exalted and glorified above such behavior). Now consider the following questions;
1. Would you just accept such faith because of its spiritual richness or reject it because of its foolishness to your logical reasoning?
2. Would you not ask about the actual connections that exist between tha particular target and the act of lying that must be committed by God before the target can be achieved?
3. Would you not ask why All- knowing and Omnipotent God decided, at first instance, to give preference for such irrational way of LYING over many rational ways He can design and create from His infinite knowledge and unlimited power to achieve that particular target?
4. Would you just accept that the way of such a LYING God is higher and complex than your way ?
5. Would you just fold your arms and accept that the foolishness of such a LYING God is wiser than the wisdom of all men ( 1st Corinthians 1:25 )?

Now ponder over the five questions cited above and then tell me the difference between this imaginary faith which proclaim that God MUST commit an act of LYING for a short period of time in order for God to achieve a particular target and the Christian faith which also proclaim that God MUST CURSE (see Galatians 3:13, Deuteronomy 21:23 ) an innocent and righteous soul (like Jesus Christ) for a short period of time on the cross of Calvary in order for God to achieve a particular target (like solving the problem of sin with humanity or rescuing the humanity from bondage of Satan).

Therefore, if you reject this imaginary faith because of its foolishness to your logical reasoning, then you must also reject Christianity since the two faiths are telling us to believe the exact opposite of what we naturally know about God through our logical reasoning. As God is naturally known to ALWAYS TELL THE TRUTH AND NEVER TO COMMIT AN ACT OF LYING for any particular target; He is also naturally known to ALWAYS BLESS AND NEVER TO CURSE AN INNOCENT AND RIGHTEOUS SOUL for any particular target.
God may allow an innocent and righteous soul to SUFFER (I:e to be physically condemned) for one reason or the other. But God would never CURSE( i:e to spiritually condemn) an innocent and righteous soul (like Jesus Christ) for any reason whatsoever; even for a shortest period of time.
In fact, Paul himself knew very well that it is totally IRRATIONAL to believe that Jesus was ACCURSED by God. This is the reason why he contradicts his original submission ( Galatians 3:13 ) by saying again in another place ; "Therefore, I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus ACCURSED !” (1st Corinthians 12:3).
Yet the ONLY WAY for Jesus not to become "accursed" was for him NOT to die on the cross since it is clearly written in the the same Bible that EVERYONE that is crucified is accursed by God (Deuteronomy 21:23, Galatians 3:13 ).

Of what use is the Christians folks brains? The answer is passing Exam only. They freeze their brains on issues that matter the most to their soul. These are people that will be in serious regret before the Lord of the Throne of Authority.

Put simply, atonement is pagan idea put forward by the Roman and packaged as Christianity.

Advice them but advice is only useful to those that believe.

Just leave them . They will soon come to know.
If the God of the Bible does not think like men, then why the Bible says God created man in his own image ? If the God of the Bible can glorify Himself through the most foolish things of the world, then why did God give us brain which tends to reject the foolish things of the world?

Abdulgaffar22:
@ UceeGod


But if Paul's assertion is really true, why would God of reason ( see Isaiah 1:18) ask a natural man to believe and accept a fundamental spiritual doctrine that cannot be understood by him ( 1st Corinthians 2:14 ) and completely foolish to his logical reasoning especially when that reasoning is the ONLY INSTRUMENT at his disposal to recognize that true spirituality in the midst of many fake spiritualities?

If there is only one spirituality in the entire world of human being, then Paul may be right in his claim. But there are many spiritualities like Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Confucianism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism, Baha’ism, Taoism and Sikhism. Since each of these spiritualities is claiming to be on the right path, it is now left for any natural man to use the only instrument ( i:e his logical reasoning) given to him by God to recognize the true spirituality in the midst of many fake spiritualities. This is exactly the reason why God must design the true spirituality in such a way that all its basic and fundamental doctrines would not be in conflict with the basic logical reasoning He bestowed upon a natural man. A fundamental true spiritual doctrine may support or be neutral to basic logical reasoning bestowed upon natural man; but they will never be in conflict with each other. How could true spirituality designed by God and basic logical reasoning originated from the same God be in conflict with each other? If they can be in conflict with each other, then how can a natural man decide whether to accept or reject a true spiritual faith in the midst of many fake spiritual faiths?

Have you now seen how Paul got it wrong by asserting that “the natural man does not receive the things of the spirit, for they are foolishness to him”? Is true spirituality not meant to be accepted and embraced by natural man? Now that it is foolishness to him; how is he going to accept and embrace it?

God created man to relate with Him through his spirit only (intuition, communion and conscience). The FALLen nature of man caused a disconnect between him and his Creator because the spirit has become dead to God so that the natural man can only resort to his own mind(part of the soul) to connect to God through religion, hence the need for redemption through Christ. A regenerated man can connect with his Father through his reborn spirit because Christ has made the way for him. The mind of a regenerated and redeemed man conforms to the discernment in his spirit, that's why he understands spiritual realities the natural mind can't.
Our God is an Omniscient Being who created us to be like Him, yet He is never like us because our mind is finite. God requires the full cooperation of our soul (mind, emotions and volition) to relate with us - the soul must be subject to the spirit in order to understand and experience spiritual realities from God, that's the kind of relationship He wants, not a religious one.

The natural man only needs a relationship based on FAITH with God through CHRIST to comprehend spiritual stuffs.

@ UceeGod


You wrote;


"The FALLen nature of man caused a disconnect between him and his Creator because the spirit has become dead to God so that the natural man can only resort to his own mind(part of the soul) to connect to God through religion, hence the need for redemption through Christ.".


My reply;

If the spirit of a natural man has become dead to God due to fallen nature of man and hence there is need for redemption through Christ, then how exactly did Old Testament saints (like Moses, Abraham and others)who have lived and died BEFORE the arrival of Christ make their reconciliation back to God during their life time ? If these Children of Adam were able to make their reconciliation back to God during their life time WITHOUT redemption through Christ, then Christ is not the only way. Do you agree ?

Abdulgaffar22:
@ UceeGod


You wrote;


"The FALLen nature of man caused a disconnect between him and his Creator because the spirit has become dead to God so that the natural man can only resort to his own mind(part of the soul) to connect to God through religion, hence the need for redemption through Christ.".


My reply;

If the spirit of a natural man has become dead to God due to fallen nature of man and hence there is need for redemption through Christ, then how exactly did Old Testament saints (like Moses, Abraham and others)who have lived and died BEFORE the arrival of Christ make their reconciliation back to God during their life time ? If these Children of Adam were able to make their reconciliation back to God during their life time WITHOUT redemption through Christ, then Christ is not the only way. Do you agree ?

No one was able to reconcile himself back to God before Christ. God's plan from the beginning has been to govern the earth through his regents (humans) by residing in their spirits. The Old Testament saints looked forward to the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus Christ, that's why they made continuous sacrifices for atonement which pointed towards the final and ultimate atonement made by God Himself in the Person of Jesus Christ. God could only communicate and work through the Old Testament saints by physical manifestations and revelations because His Spirit couldn't yet live in them. The Spirit of God is now available to anyone who believes in Christ as the Lord and Saviour - Ezekiel 36:26,27

@ UceeGod
What do you mean by "No one was able to reconcile himself back to God before Christ" ? Do you even know the meaning of 'reconciliation' ? Reconciliation means ; the reestablishment of FRIENDLY relations.
Now see how God called Abraham His friend;
"But you, Israel, are My servant,Jacob whom I have chosen,The descendants of Abraham My FRIEND (Isaiah 41:7-9)

What actually made Abraham to enjoy such a cordial relationship with God ? Was it because of redemption through Christ ? Was it because of GRACE through his FAITH in Christ ? Was it because of his belief in the atoning work of Christ on the Cross? No, no and no!

It was because of his constancy in obeying and keeping the law and commandments of God;

"I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws." (Genesis 26:4-5)

Abdulgaffar22:
@ UceeGod
What do you mean by "No one was able to reconcile himself back to God before Christ" ? Do you even know the meaning of 'reconciliation' ? Reconciliation means ; the reestablishment of FRIENDLY relations.
Now see how God called Abraham His friend;
"But you, Israel, are My servant,Jacob whom I have chosen,The descendants of Abraham My FRIEND (Isaiah 41:7-9)

What actually made Abraham to enjoy such a cordial relationship with God ? Was it because of redemption through Christ ? Was it because of GRACE through his FAITH in Christ ? Was it because of his belief in the atoning work of Christ on the Cross? No, no and no!

It was because of his constancy in obeying and keeping the law and commandments of God;

"I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws." (Genesis 26:4-5)

Reconciliation in Christianity isn't the same with the world. Only Jesus Christ brought back what humanity lost after the FALL - God's Kingdom (Spiritual and Personal relationship).
I told you Abraham and other old testament saints looked forward to Christ's sacrifice and the cordial relationship Abraham had with God was because of his FAITH in God which resulted in obedience. The covenant God had with Abraham and his descendants from Isaac was a type and pointer to the covenant He now has with genuine Christians - both based on FAITH (through OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW in the former and through GRACE in the latter).

@ UceeGod


Based on your submission written above, I want to ask you the following questions;

1. Can you show us any biblical verse to prove that Abraham did not have such spiritual and personal relationship with God- the relationship that you believe to be possible ONLY through Christ- ?

2. Can you show us a single verse from the Old Testament to prove that Abraham, Moses and the likes were looking forward to Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross ?


3. If the latter covenant brought by Jesus was based on faith through GRACE and not through OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW as you think, then what do you have to say about Jesus' statement quoted below ?

"The TEACHERS OF THE LAW and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to DO EVERYTHING they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach (Matthew 23:1-3 NIV)" .

Abdulgaffar22:
@ UceeGod


Based on your submission written above, I want to ask you the following questions;

1. Can you show us any biblical verse to prove that Abraham did not have such spiritual and personal relationship with God- the relationship that you believe to be possible ONLY through Christ- ?

2. Can you show us a single verse from the Old Testament to prove that Abraham, Moses and the likes were looking forward to Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross ?


3. If the covenant brought by Jesus was based on faith through GRACE and not through OBEDIENCE TO THE LAW as you think, then what do you have to say about Jesus' statement quoted below ?

"The TEACHERS OF THE LAW and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to DO EVERYTHING they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach (Matthew 23:1-3 NIV)" .

1. The personal and spiritual relationship with God is only possible through FAITH in Christ the Son of God, when the Spirit of God comes in, regenerates and starts living in the spirit of man. No one (including Abraham) had this kind of relationship with God until Christ ascended - John 7:9, 14:26.

2. Genesis 22:14. Abraham named the place knowing God would provide the ultimate sacrifice for salvation on that hill someday. Abraham, and later Moses(writer of the book of Genesis), recognized that God did provide a ram as a replacement for Isaac, and it pointed to the ultimate sacrifice when God would provide Himself(Christ), not an angel or a mere man but God Himself to save and redeem us.

3. The new covenant of GRACE doesn't cancel obedience to the law but it's the goal of the old covenant of law - Matthew 5:17. The covenant God made with Abraham and his descendants was based on FAITH not obedience. Afterall no one was able to fulfill the law(complete OBEDIENCE) until Christ. God declared Abraham righteous not because of his obedience but based on his FAITH in God which yields obedience. Likewise FAITH in Christ is the basis of righteousness in Christians; the free gift of Christ's righteousness inputted in Christians is the GRACE of God not earned by OBEDIENCE but only by FAITH. In Matthew 23:1-3, Christ expected that the Jews had FAITH in God (of course they were still under the old covenant). The old covenant ended after the death of Christ - Matthew 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 23:45, 2 Corinthians 3:14,15. The new covenant took effect after the Christ's acension - Acts 2:4, Acts 4:8.

@UceeGod


1. John7:9 you cited is irrelevant to topic of discussion.

John 14:26 says; But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.


Now tell us the difference between the "Holy spirit" mentioned above and the "Spirit of the LORD" made mentioned in the following verses of Old Testament;


The SPIRIT of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war. The LORD gave Cushan-Rishathaim king of Aram into the hands of Othniel, who overpowered him. Judges 3:10


When they arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the SPIRIT of God came upon him in power, and he joined in their prophesying. 1st Samuel 10:10


Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke to him, and He took some of the SPIRIT that was on Moses and placed that Spirit on the seventy elders. As the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied Numbers 11:25


Then the SPIRIT of the LORD came on Gideon, and he blew a trumpet, summoning the Abiezrites to follow him.Judges 6:34



And the SPIRIT of the LORD came upon him, and he went down to Ashkelon, and slew thirty men of them, and took their spoil, and gave change of garments unto them which expounded the riddle. And his anger was kindled, and he went up to his father's house. Judges 14:19



2. Genesis 22:14 says; So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided."
So where is the hint in this verse that Abraham was looking forward to ultimate sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross for salvation of humanity ?
Again you wrote ;
"and it pointed to the ultimate sacrifice when God would provide Himself(Christ), not an angel or a mere man but God Himself to save and redeem us"
Are you saying Jesus is God?
This is another problem in Christianity.
In John 20:17, Jesus was reported to have said “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God”. If Jesus is God Almighty, then which God was he referring to when he said ; "my God and your God" ? Can God Almighty have another God?
Also Luke 6:12 says "He (Jesus) went out to the mountain side to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God" .
If Jesus is God, who was he praying to? Was he praying to himself ?
Mark 10:17-18 says as follows ; "Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.”.
If Jesus is God, why did he reject being called “good” and then submit that all goodness belongs only to God?
Again, in Matthew 24:36, Jesus said; “But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the son, but ONLY THE FATHER”.
If Jesus is God, why did he confess his lack of knowledge about the Day of Judgment and then submit that the knowledge of that day belongs only to the Father? Can God be lacking anything as regard to knowledge ?


3. If the tearing of temple curtain implies the abrogation of Old Testament Laws, then Jesus has CONTRADICTED his original sayings for He said;
17. DO NOT THINK I CAME TO DESTROY THE LAW or the (way of the) PROPHETS. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18. For assuredly, I say to you,TILL HEAVEN AND THE EARTH PASS AWAY, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19. WHOSEVER THEREFORE shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19)
(Please see how the phrase "WHOSOEVER THEREFORE " connects the three verses together. This implies that the "law or ( the way of) the prophets " talking about in verse 17 is the same thing with the "commandments " made mention in verse 19.
Hence, from these very verses , we learnt that any person that UPHOLD the law (i:e the commandments) and ask people to do the same shall be called GREAT in the kingdom of heaven. And any person that SET ASIDE the law and ask people to do the same shall be called the LEAST in the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, it is totally a WRONG interpretation to proclaim that Jesus came to fulfil the law by his sacrificial death on the cross .


In another place,it is written as follows;
It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the LAW (Luke 16:17 NIV).


In fact, when Jesus commanded the disciples to do everything preached by the teachers of the law, he did not say this command will be for a short period of time. He said
"The TEACHERS OF THE LAW and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to DO EVERYTHING they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach (Matthew 23:1-3 NIV)" .
Is there any indication in this verse that this command will end after Jesus ascension to heaven ? Certainly not!

Abdulgaffar22:
@UceeGod


1. John7:9 you cited is irrelevant to topic of discussion.

John 14:26 says; But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.


Now tell us the difference between the "Holy spirit" mentioned above and the "Spirit of the LORD" made mentioned in the following verses of Old Testament;


The SPIRIT of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war. The LORD gave Cushan-Rishathaim king of Aram into the hands of Othniel, who overpowered him. Judges 3:10


When they arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the SPIRIT of God came upon him in power, and he joined in their prophesying. 1st Samuel 10:10


Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke to him, and He took some of the SPIRIT that was on Moses and placed that Spirit on the seventy elders. As the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied Numbers 11:25


Then the SPIRIT of the LORD came on Gideon, and he blew a trumpet, summoning the Abiezrites to follow him.Judges 6:34



And the SPIRIT of the LORD came upon him, and he went down to Ashkelon, and slew thirty men of them, and took their spoil, and gave change of garments unto them which expounded the riddle. And his anger was kindled, and he went up to his father's house. Judges 14:19



2. Genesis 22:14 says; So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, "On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided."
So where is the hint in this verse that Abraham was looking forward to ultimate sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross for salvation of humanity ?
Again you wrote ;
"and it pointed to the ultimate sacrifice when God would provide Himself(Christ), not an angel or a mere man but God Himself to save and redeem us"
Are you saying Jesus is God?
This is another problem in Christianity.
In John 20:17, Jesus was reported to have said “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God”. If Jesus is God Almighty, then which God was he referring to when he said ; "my God and your God" ? Can God Almighty have another God?
Also Luke 6:12 says "He (Jesus) went out to the mountain side to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God" .
If Jesus is God, who was he praying to? Was he praying to himself ?
Mark 10:17-18 says as follows ; "Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.”.
If Jesus is God, why did he reject being called “good” and then submit that all goodness belongs only to God?
Again, in Matthew 24:36, Jesus said; “But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the son, but ONLY THE FATHER”.
If Jesus is God, why did he confess his lack of knowledge about the Day of Judgment and then submit that the knowledge of that day belongs only to the Father? Can God be lacking anything as regard to knowledge ?


3. If the tearing of temple curtain implies the abrogation of Old Testament Laws, then Jesus has CONTRADICTED his original sayings for He said;
17. DO NOT THINK I CAME TO DESTROY THE LAW or the (way of the) PROPHETS. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18. For assuredly, I say to you,TILL HEAVEN AND THE EARTH PASS AWAY, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19. WHOSEVER THEREFORE shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19)
(Please see how the phrase "WHOSOEVER THEREFORE " connects the three verses together. This implies that the "law or ( the way of) the prophets " talking about in verse 17 is the same thing with the "commandments " made mention in verse 19.
Hence, from these very verses , we learnt that any person that UPHOLD the law (i:e the commandments) and ask people to do the same shall be called GREAT in the kingdom of heaven. And any person that SET ASIDE the law and ask people to do the same shall be called the LEAST in the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, it is totally a WRONG interpretation to proclaim that Jesus came to fulfil the law by his sacrificial death on the cross .


In another place,it is written as follows;
It is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for the least stroke of a pen to drop out of the LAW (Luke 16:17 NIV).


In fact, when Jesus commanded the disciples to do everything preached by the teachers of the law, he did not say this command will be for a short period of time. He said
"The TEACHERS OF THE LAW and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to DO EVERYTHING they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach (Matthew 23:1-3 NIV)" .
Is there any indication in this verse that this command will end after Jesus ascension to heaven ? Certainly not!

Every interpretation you gave to your Bible quotations are diabolically wrong and out of context.

1. The modus operandi of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament was to come upon (manifest presence of God) His people but in the new testament, He comes in (indwelling presence) to His people. The Holy Spirit never dwelt in anyone before Christ.

2. Genesis 22:14 was no HINT but CONFIRMATION that Abraham, Moses and other Jews of his day looked forward to an ultimate sacrifice by God Himself. Abraham didn’t name the place in reference to what he experienced, but he named it in view of what will happen in the future. He named it Mount Provision - Jehova Jireh and Moses confirmed by saying even in his own day, men looked at that hill and said, “In the Mount of the LORD it shall be provided.” it was on this same hill(Mount Moriah) that Solomon built the temple( 2 Chronicles 3:1) and on the same set of hills Jesus would later die on the cross. What other evidence are looking for unless you're going to turn a blind eye and cold heart to a glaring truth.
I know I have given you a plethora of evidence on another thread that Jesus Christ the Son of God is God Almighty in human form, a Self-revelation of God in human form and I'll not waste my time going back there because you have a penchant for turning your back on the truth no matter how glaring it is.

3. Jesus came, walked on this earth for 33yrs and fulfilled the whole law in its entirety, something no other human before and after Him had ever or would ever do. God gave the Jews the law He knows they'll never be able to keep, that's why provision for atonement was made available. Now, Jesus has fulfilled all the requirements of the law so that anyone who believes ( has FAITH) in Him will have His righteousness inputted in him - that's justification by GRACE. The law was the ABC of God's Principles, anyone who has the Spirit of God in his spirit doesn't need to look the law to be right with God; the Spirit behind the Precepts(law) is already in him guiding all his conducts according to God's Principles. So rendering the temple veil is a very significant event that all Christians(starting from the original apostles) know to be the end of God's covenant of law. Genuine Christians naturally keep to the PRINCIPLES behind PRECEPTS (law) which pointed towarda the PERSON (CHRIST) as they constantly follow the leading of the indwelling Holy Spirit who guides into all truth concerning the PERSON of Christ.

Why did God create humans here on earth?
Are we to live here or play games of thrones?
Why are people dying?
What is God going to do about death?

The Bible tells how we got here, how evil began, who are involved, why innocent millions now are affected by what happened back then and what God has done to rescue the situation.
Little children die everyday, accidents, natural disaster, pestilence, hunger, sickness and so on is claiming innocent lives by the second and God explains that it's the result of what Adam and Eve brought upon mankind.
Arabs makes sacrifices yearly killing millions of rams and you're still here arguing over an ultimate sacrifice that could solve all these miseries once and for all!

Well know today that Muhammad is dead and all his false teachings after over 1,500 years is not working even amongst his own people.

My friend, the Arabs can fool you and many of your people but they can't fool everyone!

Salvation of the earth belongs to just one single race JEWS, so Arabians can continue with all their ranting tactics, everyone can see today that it's all based on falsehood EVEN AMONGST THEIR OWN RACE!

These are Iraqis, who fled their homeland to America for safety due to the incessant troubles of Islam, the religion you're now advocating for!
Trump vows to protect them from no other people but their own Iraqi families who are Muslims!

@UceeGod and Maximus69


Truly, those upon whom the word of God has been justified will not believe even if ALL THE SIGNS should come to them- until they see a painful torment (Qur'an 10:96-97)



However, let me just to try for the last time to help you see how Christianity get it wrong based on its doctrine of sin atonement through Jesus crucifixion ;


Premise 1; Atonement of sin through Jesus crucifixion is the ONLY SALVATION PLAN that God has designed for humanity .


Premise 2; Hence, the people who made this divine plan (i:e Jesus crucifixion) to be POSSIBLE (like Judas Iscariot who betrayed Jesus Christ and those who allegedly crucified him) has done a VERY GOOD JOB in the eyes of God who initiated the salvation plan and in the eyes of humanity who would benefit from this plan


Premise 3; Therefore, these people (i:e Judas Iscariot and his colleagues) really deserve THANKS and KUDOS from God and humanity ;

Of course a commissioner of police, who secretly release some armed robbers from their life imprisonment, deserve thanks and kudos from the robbers. Even if the robbers knew that what the commissioner has done is against the law, they will still give kudos and thanks to him. This is because their release from life imprisonment is far more important in the eyes of the robbers; just like salvation of humanity is far more important in the eyes of God and humanity.


Premise 4; But we know for sure that BETRAYERS and MURDERERS of an innocent and righteous soul (like Judas Iscariot and his colleagues) do not deserve any thanks and kudos from God and humanity .

Since there is inevitable CONTRADICTION between the Premise 3 and Premise 4, therefore, it follows that if Premise 4 is true then Premise 3 must not be true .

And if Premise 3 is not true then Premise 2 is also not true (this is because if Premise 2 is true, then Premise 3 must also be true).

Similarly, if Premise 2 is not true, then Premise 1 is also not true (this is because if Premise 1 is true, then Premise 2 must also be true ) .

And if Premise 1 is not true, then Christianity is also not true( this is because Christianity ASSUME Premise 1 to be true) .


Now tell us what is wrong with this analysis. In other word, which of the FOUR PREMISES explained above is logically not correct ?


If both of you are very sure that Christianity is true, then point out, with LOGICAL REASON, the premise that is not correct among the four premises cited above

Abdulgaffar22:
@UceeGod and Maximus69


Truly, those upon whom the word of God has been justified will not believe even if ALL THE SIGNS should come to them- until they see a painful torment (Qur'an 10:96-97)



However, let me just to try for the last time to help you see how Christianity get it wrong based on its doctrine of sin atonement through Jesus crucifixion ;


Premise 1; Atonement of sin through Jesus crucifixion is the ONLY SALVATION PLAN that God has designed for humanity .


Premise 2; Hence, the people who made this divine plan (i:e Jesus crucifixion) to be POSSIBLE (like Judas Iscariot who betrayed Jesus Christ and those who allegedly crucified him) has done a VERY GOOD JOB in the eyes of God who initiated the salvation plan and in the eyes of humanity who would benefit from this plan


Premise 3; Therefore, these people (i:e Judas Iscariot and his colleagues) really deserve THANKS and KUDOS from God and humanity ;

Of course a commissioner of police, who secretly release some armed robbers from their life imprisonment, deserve thanks and kudos from the robbers. Even if the robbers knew that what the commissioner has done is against the law, they will still give kudos and thanks to him. This is because their release from life imprisonment is far more important in the eyes of the robbers; just like salvation of humanity is far more important in the eyes of God and humanity.


Premise 4; But we know for sure that BETRAYERS and MURDERERS of an innocent and righteous soul (like Judas Iscariot and his colleagues) do not deserve any thanks and kudos from God and humanity .

Since there is inevitable CONTRADICTION between the Premise 3 and Premise 4, therefore, it follows that if Premise 4 is true then Premise 3 must not be true .

And if Premise 3 is not true then Premise 2 is also not true (this is because if Premise 2 is true, then Premise 3 must also be true).

Similarly, if Premise 2 is not true, then Premise 1 is also not true (this is because if Premise 1 is true, then Premise 2 must also be true ) .

And if Premise 1 is not true, then Christianity is also not true( this is because Christianity ASSUME Premise 1 to be true) .


Now tell us what is wrong with this analysis. In other word, which of the FOUR PREMISES explained above is logically not correct ?


If both of you are very sure that Christianity is true, then point out, with LOGICAL REASON, the premise that is not correct among the four premises cited above

Your logical reasonings are all based on philosophical assumptions. Christian logical reasoning is based on spiritual realities - that's what makes it TRUE FAITH. I can't go on explaining spiritual concepts to you because you'll never understand and your mind is already made up on your own prejudice.

TWELVE logical reasons why Atonement of sin through Jesus crucifixion is the only way to salvation:


1. It is not an act of great INJUSTICE and CRUELTY for a person other than the OFFENDERS to pay for the BAIL of the offenders.

2. If bail is offered, the offender may choose to accept it or reject it. The cross makes possible  God's forgiveness. Where the cross is rejected such a one cannot available himself the forgiveness that results from the cross.

3. The sin of FINITE Adam was transferred to all humanity. The willingness of Jesus to pay for the BAIL of all humanity became acceptable to God. He died a physical death and much more. He lost his life. God's acceptance of that was DEMONSTRATED by his being restored back to life.

4. No SINGLE verse of the Bible advocates that because of grace sin should continue. Rather the Scripture says "shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? May it never be!"

5. God did not just pick at random an INNOCENT and UNWILLING man and sacrificed him. Jesus CHOSE to pay for the BAIL of humanity.

6. Jesus was sinless. He was the Pure Lamb of God. His decision to pay for the BAIL of the offenders cannot in any law court be considered as a SINFUL ACT.

7. God has a plan to let human history run its course. He has a predetermined time to do so. Till then "creation waits eargerly for the redemption" (Romans 8 ).

8. A man may feel pained that he has to use his life savings of millions of Naira to save his child's life. That pain is real. But the overriding LOVE for his child will still make him give up that much savings. Jesus said "NEVERTHELESS, not my will but your will" (Matthew 26:39). In other words: "I know and feel the enormity of this sacrifice BUT I still CHOOSE to do it in conformity to your will".

9. It is possible for a person who is not the OFFENDER  (i.e. he is righteous) to pay for the BAIL of the offenders.

10. It will be IRRATIONAL for a Judge not to accept the BAIL payment of his son on behalf of an OFFENDER simply on the basis of LOVE for his son.

11. Jesus started his ministry with the Jews. At the end when his mission for his first coming was fulfilled he said: "God therefore and make disciples OF ALL NATIONS....." (Matthew 28:19). Also: "You will be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and EVEN TO THE REMOTEST PART OF THE EARTH" (Acts 1:8 ).

12. God's means of salvation is NOT WORKS but FAITH. Faith expressed ahead (looking forward) or faith expressed retrospectively is equally efficacious.

The atoning work of Christ on the cross of Calvary makes salvation sure. Basing salvation on works makes for uncertainty. Because it is IMPOSSIBLE to determine how much works will qualify a person for salvation or how much works will OVERRIDE a person's sins to qualify such a one for salvation. This is why ISLAM stands on a very shaky ground and why NO MOSLEM is promised or is assured of salvation or paradise.

Abdulgaffar22:
@UceeGod and Maximus69


Truly, those upon whom the word of God has been justified WILL NOT BELIEVE even if ALL THE SIGNS should come to them- until they see a PAINFUL TORMENT (Qur'an 10:96-97)

This is what exposed your unquestionable folly!

If 'the word of God has been JUSTIFIED upon some people so that they WILL NOT BELIEVE'

Please how come your senses couldn't help you to know you can't undo God's justice?

Can you do better than God?

My friend, there's no reasonable logic in what Arabians are teaching you!

And that's why they're terrorising the whole earth because they feel it's by forced that people can accept their illogical reasoning!

2special:
[s]instead of you to be bothered about convincing your brothers and sisters killing millions of people in the name of religion, you're here embarrassing yourself better get a life, pls get a purpose for your life...don't be a confident ignorant fellow[/s]

How does this address the topic
Every one of those attacks combined can never be up to a million,its your xtian brothers like george bush that have murdered millions.

tartar9:

How does this address the topic
Every one of those attacks combined can never be up to a million,its your xtian brothers like {{{George Bush}}} that have murdered millions.

Most people defines religionists with what they claim to believe, but intellectuals defines them by the rules their leader set as in the person whose example they're following!

Jesus never raise weapons against anyone, he never encourage anyone to carry weapons, he even died in the hands of those who wish him dead when he possessed the power to destroy them!

Please how can any reasonable intellectual think that someone who issues orders to go and kill people is a follower of such a peacemaker like Jesus?

Can a Muslim intentionally ignores the standard set by Muhammad, and still be regarded as a Muslim?
I know this may be difficult for you to resolve because there is no definite answer in Islam, but know that whoever ignores any other or instruction from Muhammad is no more a Muslim. Why?
Because if he truthfully believes that Muhammad is a messenger from God, surely he should know that believing in Muhammad will not just be a mere say, but wholeheartedly submitting to whatever God's prophet teaches since such teaching is from God who send the messenger not from the messenger's ideas!

Maximus69:
[s]

Most people defines religionists with what they claim to believe, but intellectuals defines them by the rules their leader set as in the person whose example they're following!

Jesus never raise weapons against anyone, he never encourage anyone to carry weapons, he even died in the hands of those who wish him dead when he possessed the power to destroy them!

Please how can any reasonable intellectual think that someone who issues orders to go and kill people is a follower of such a peacemaker like Jesus?

Can a Muslim intentionally ignores the standard set by Muhammad, and still be regarded as a Muslim?
I know this may be difficult for you to resolve because there is no definite answer in Islam, but know that whoever ignores any other or instruction from Muhammad is no more a Muslim. Why?
Because if he truthfully believes that Muhammad is a messenger from God, surely he should know that believing in Muhammad will not just be a mere say, but wholeheartedly submitting to whatever God's prophet teaches since such teaching is from God who send the messenger not from the messenger's ideas!
[/s]

But you believe his second coming as a what?
He also never married does that mean he was against marriage.
Of course,if he dared raised a weapon against anyone he would have been crucified much earlier.He seemed to have a different intention:
"But as for these enemies of mine who didn't want me to be their king-bring them here and slaughter them in my presence!" luke 19:27

tartar9:

But you believe his second coming as a what?
He also never married does that mean he was against marriage.
Of course,if he dared raised a weapon against anyone he would have been crucified much earlier.He seemed to have a different intention:
"But as for these enemies of mine who didn't want me to be their king-bring them here and slaughter them in my presence!" luke 19:27

The truth can't be hidden Sir!

Did the Quran mention Jesus?
According to the Quran was Jesus a warrior?

It's easy to resolve this with just two questions because the Quran talks extensively about Jesus, so there's no need forcing you to accept him as a messenger of God!
It's Muhammad that wasn't mentioned in the Bible at all, therefore your antagonism regarding Jesus' words is a sign that your Quran is FAKE, because it's only a fake messenger that speaks disrespectfully of another messenger whom he claims has come from the same God!

@ Maximus69
If it is an act of INJUSTICE for God to FREELY forgive the sinners that He Himself has created in such manner, then is it not a GREATER ACT OF INJUSTICE for the same God to physically and spiritually condemn(Galatians 3:13) an innocent and righteous soul for the sins he did not commit ?
When you take off the BLINDERS that are blocķing your view, you will realize that the present-day Christianity does not make any sense!

@Sagenaija


1. The two concepts are not comparable because on the issue of paying the bail for the offenders, NO DIRECT PHYSICAL PAIN OR SPIRITUAL PAIN ( CURSE; Deut 21:23) is inflicted on the philanthropist who decided to pay the bail for the offenders.


2. But God has been forgiving His people BEFORE the Cross and WITHOUT any slightest hint of the Cross ( see Ezekiel 18:20-22, Isaiah 55:7, Jeremiah 36:3 Ezekiel 33:10-16, 1st Kings 8:46-50, 2nd Chronicles 7:14, Jonah 3:5-10, Exodus 30:15-16, Numbers 31:50, Daniel 4:27, Psalms 78:36-39, Isaiah 43:23-25).
So cross does not make any divine forgiveness to be possible.


3. But Bible make it clear that sin of the FINITE Adam cannot be transferred upon his Children (Deuteronomy 24:16, Ezekiel 18:18-19). So your argument crumbles from beginning.


4. The devil is very wise; If he were to tell you directly that sin should continue, then his plot would be exposed immediately. But there is no way for the devil to "cover up" the logical implication of atonement of sin through Jesus crucifixion I:e the FREEDOM to commit sin. Of course, if Jesus has already punished for all the sins of the Christians, then they should utilize this opportunity to indulge in more sins since they would not be punished again.


5. Even if Jesus volunteered himself to die for our sins, it was still God that STARTED the whole plan. Therefore, this does not remove the logical contradiction inherent in the way of God who says "a righteous soul MUST NOT BE KILLED" and later contradict Himself by saying again " a righteous soul (Jesus) MUST BE KILLED" before the humanity can be saved.


6. Taking the decision to pay the bail of the offenders is not a sinful act. But deliberate killing of innocent and righteous soul (like Jesus) on the cross is a SINFUL ACT; otherwise God would not have forbidden it( Exodus 20:13). The only way for atonement of sin in Christianity to be saved from being called a SINFUL ACT was for Jesus to die NATURALLY on a sick bed without being killed by anyone.


7. If God let human history to run its course, then in what way has humanity benefited from atonement of sin through Jesus crucifixion ?



8. But why not Jesus prayed for the STRENGTH that would enable him to bear the task instead of praying for the cup to be taken away ? Again, If Jesus has chosen to do it in conformity with the Father' will, then why the lamentation on the cross(Matthew 27:46) after the task has already been done?



9. But it is going to be a WASTE OF RESOURCES for the payment of the bail to be made if the Person whom the offenders offended has already declared that he would be satisfied by the act of REPENTANCE displayed by the offenders (see Ezekiel 18:21-23).


10. But is it RATIONAL for the Judge to inflict a CURSE (Galatians 3:13) upon his OWN innocent and righteous son simply because he wanted to accept the bail payment of the offenders ?



11. But if Jesus already knew that he would later asked the apostles to make disciples of ALL NATIONS (Matthew 28:19), then why did he tell the woman that he was SENT ONLY to the Jews( Matthew 15:24) ? Suppose you are being asked to distribute a packet of sweet to some children in your vicinity WITH AN INSTRUCTION TO START WITH THE MALE CHILDREN BEFORE THE FEMALE. Now one of the female children approaches you for the collection of her own sweet. Please before God and man would you say; " I WAS ONLY ASKED TO GIVE THE MALE" ? Of course, you would not utter such kind of statement. You would definitely say "IT IS NOT YET TIME FOR THE FEMALE" or "WAIT FOR YOU TURN".
Similarly, if it was already in the divine plan that JESUS AND HIS APOSTLES WOULD PREACH TO THE JEWS FIRST AND THEN TO ALL THE GENTILES, then Jesus' statement directed to that Canaanite woman in Matthew 15:24 should have been: IT IS NOT YET TIME FOR THE GENTILES or something similar in meaning rather than “I WAS SENT ONLY TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL”.



12. If God's means of salvation is NOT WORKS but FAITH, then what do you have to say about the biblical verses below?
James 2:14-17: "What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no WORKS ? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no WORKS, is dead, being by itself".





This is why CHRISTIANITY stands on a very shaky ground and why NO CHRISTIAN cannot be sure of his salvation if he continued to believe in atonement of sin through Jesus crucifixion!







.

@ UceeGod
At least you must agree that Premise 1 and Premise 4 are true. Therefore, in the same manner, Premise 2 and Premise 3 must either be true or false whether they are philosophical assumptions or not.
You should be able tell us your position (with reason) regarding these two premesis unless you want to run away from reality.
What you fail to understand is that when you have different FAITHS each claiming to be on the right spiritual path, then there is no way for a NEUTRAL MAN to decide which one to embrace unless he employed his " ONLY INSTRUMENT" (i:e his logical reasoning) given to him by God. This is exactly the reason why God must design the true spirituality in such a way that it would not be in conflict with the basic logical reasoning He bestowed upon a NEUTRAL MAN. In other words, a "true spirituality" must AGREE with "basic logical reasoning" since they both originate from the same source ( i:e God).
So in the light of what is written above, there is no need for you to go into the spiritual concept before you can defend your faith. If your faith is really from God then You must be able to defend it using a basic logical reasoning that God has given to a NEUTRAL MAN.
But let it be clear to you that there is no way you can defend Christianity with basic logical reasoning that God has bestowed upon a NEUTRAL MAN. This is because Christianity is totally in conflict with our basic logical reasoning.
For example; Through our logical reasoning, God is naturally known to ALWAYS BLESS AND NEVER TO CURSE AN INNOCENT AND RIGHTEOUS SOUL for any particular target; just like God is naturally known to ALWAYS TELL THE TRUTH AND NEVER TO COMMIT AN ACT OF LYING for any particular target
But Christianity want us to believe that it is possible for God to CURSE an innocent and righteous soul (see Deuteronomy 21:23 and Galatians 3:13) in order to achieve a particular target (like solving the problem of sin with humanity)
See the contradiction between Christianity and human logical reasoning! This simply shows that Christianity is not true. This is because a "true spirituality" MUST AGREE with "basic logical reasoning" given to all human being as we have established above.

Abdulgaffar22:
@ Maximus69
If it is an act of INJUSTICE for God to FREELY forgive the sinners that He Himself has created in such manner, then is it not a GREATER ACT OF INJUSTICE for the same God to physically and spiritually condemn(Galatians 3:13) an innocent and righteous soul for the sins he did not commit ?
When you take off the BLINDERS that are blocķing your view, you will realize that the present-day Christianity does not make any sense!

It's your Quran that makes you sound stupid!

You quoted it saying
God has destined those that will never agree with your stories, and you're here trying to convince yourself that you can change WHAT GOD HAS DESTINED TO HAPPEN!

Abdulgaffar, do you know what it means to believe what your Quran says here?
Because if you actually believe i'm sure you won't come on social media giving yourself a headache when you know what God has JUSTIFIED!

Abdulgaffar22:
@UceeGod and Maximus69


Truly, those upon whom the word of God has been justified will not believe even if ALL THE SIGNS should come to them- until they see a painful torment (Qur'an 10:96-97)