Deepsight, from my understanding, there is no "universal" goal of all religions - as evidenced by the different stated purposes of the established religions. To the Confuscian it is to be a good citizen of your society, to the muslim - submit to allahs will, to the Mayan - appease the gods, to the rastafaris - african liberation and supremacy, to the christian - believe in Christ and love God.

There is no central "purpose" of religion that applies evenly to all, so sir, we cannot start there oh. If you think I have erred above, please do show how. Thanks.

InesQor:

@Deep Sight:

By the way, why are you always ready to misrepresent others?   You took my quote and CLEVERLY edited the context (outlined in red below) which I placed in a bracket.

became

To the effect that readers on the thread will assume that I am arguing that religion and politics operate under that same defining token.

Guy, this is EVIL. Stop it.  

I don't see how you presume evil. For heaven's sake you stated and still state that "actively discussing politics alone makes one a[b] politician[/b]."

That is just plain absurd. That would render virtually every person a politician. That is gross.

Saying thereafter that this is not the case with religion does nothing to dispose of the incongruity so stated.

And besides - just stop demonising me. If I have not understood you - it is just that - a failure to understand. You needn't keep up this game of imagining that I am "The Joker" with evil intentions in a batman series. You will see that what you wrote clearly conveys and still conveys teh incongruity I pointed out.

Stop tempting me. I would have loved to do some thesis on this matter to close out the many ludicruous postions being tendered. However the topic is simply far too inherently unimportant and misfooted for me to be bothered.

Now get thee behind me: POUNDED YAM AND GUINESS STOUT IT IS!

^lol. InesQor, shey you too are in the same Lagos abi? go and join him in the pounded yam and stout fanta .

Just makes me weak. I very much hate to be adopting the antics of Enigma as he has often related to me, but I really must excuse myself for now. I have no words to address the incongruities that you propound.

Perhaps  some pounded yam and guiness stout will revive me later on.

SMH >>> no links, no definition, all fuzzy and stuff >>> if there incongruities (who com dey use grammar  ) >>> point it out >>> wetin u come be Deep Sight for ? >>> u lacking ideas  

^^^ I Gat nothin to prove to you mate. Later.

"Man is a political animal"

"Man is a religious animal"

Discuss.

@Deep Sight:

*YAWN* at your last post directed at me. Go and take your beer, you may feel better afterwards.

@JeSoul:

Of all people to be the first I would decide to meet from Nairaland it would be Deep Sight? Oh please!!!  

Haba, Chessmaster.

@ Texas Pete >>> What is the goal of religion ? >>> i'm waiting in earnest

Uyi Iredia:

@ Texas Pete >>> What is the goal of religion ? >>> i'm waiting in earnest

The goal is to drink as much beer as possible and then die. I am off now to accomplish that sacred purpose.

When I am done,we fit yarn small. LATER.

Enigma:

"Man is a political animal"

"Man is a religious animal"

Discuss.

  trouble maker  

---

InesQor:

@JeSoul:

Of all people to be the first I would decide to meet from Nairaland it would be Deep Sight? Oh please!!!  

Haba, Chessmaster

Enigma:

"Man is a political animal"

"Man is a religious animal"

Discuss.

Man is men and women and children living together. Political, arguably so. Religious, not necessarily. In fact I can say religious, NO!! It's just hard for one to change a world view that is really all they know.

Imagine someone trying to convince you that what you have known and referred to as blue your whole life is actually yellow. That will make you, and every reference you have made to the color almost nonsensical. That could be somewhat traumatic. I think that's how hard it is to convince some religious that they may be missing the plot. It's not that the arguments are not compelling, it's just really difficult for people to accept that they have been living a lie the whole time. It's very very difficult. All sorts of defense mechanisms spring up and it will most likely just end up causing fight.

@ Deep Sight >>>   very disappointed >>> with your apparent ambivalence towards my post >>> you sidestep alll the points I raise >>> state your objections >>> do nothing to prove 'em >>> present in virtually all your posts is the tacit belief that this thread is useless

>>> BUT >>> b4 u leave >>> you would honour me , at least by defining what the goal of religion is >>> it may so be that mine is skewed

^^^^ aRRRGGGGHHH!

The goal of ALL religions is the the development of the spirit towards the LIGHT.

NOW I AM INDEED OFF FOR THAT BEER! DO NOT TEMPT ME: THAT MAY AMOUNT TO TREASON.

Or blasphemy. Thou shalt not tempt the lord thy god.

olojoro:

Man is men and women and children living together. Political, arguably so. Religious, not necessarily. In fact I can say religious, NO!! It's just hard for one to change a world view that is really all they know.

Imagine someone trying to convince you that what you have known and referred to as blue your whole life is actually yellow. That will make you, and every reference you have made to the color almost nonsensical. That could be somewhat traumatic. I think that's how hard it is to convince some religious that they may be missing the plot. It's not that the arguments are not compelling, it's just really difficult for people to accept that they have been living a lie the whole time. It's very very difficult. All sorts of defense mechanisms spring up and it will most likely just end up causing fight.

Where are these compelling arguments?

Dont you just love rhetorics

and the way ". . . Religion is the opium of the masses . . ." - Karl Marx gets banded out at any slightest opportunity

Karl Max wasnt even condemning religion itself but with a little more of the quotation describing:

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The opium was about dulling the people's pain, pacifying them, making them sluggish, clouding the perception of reality, robbing them will to enact change

and preventing them from rising up against the societal bad conditions and the perpetrating bourgeois capitalists

Enigma:

Where are these compelling arguments?

Scattered across the earth. I'm pretty sure you may have stumbled across some in your lifetime. Or haven't you?

olojoro:

All sorts of defense mechanisms spring up

1) Denial  

Enigma:

"Man is a political animal"

"Man is a religious animal"

Discuss.

Bonus (100 points): "Politics is only another religion".  

@ olojoro >>> your take >>> I wasn't brought up Christian >>> for the first 6 years of my life I was proudly pagan >>> till jehovah's Witnesses came knocking >>> then via their literature I was opened up to the possibility of God's existence (and science) >>> 2 years later I conclusively decided God exists and became a Christian >>> my dad became a Christian 3 years later (after I had become a Christian) >>>

He had spent 45 years castigating Christianity and >>> while worshipping Ifa >>> and YES ! Edos too worship Ifa

the  first literature that I read >>> that could be approximated to Atheism was a book on Ifiism by Osamaro Ibie ( i hope i recalled it right) >>> the guy castigated Christianity, Islam & Judaism >>> while praising dear Orunmila >>>

Atheists do similar >>> castigate religions >>> while excusing themselves from (being defined as) such >>> at the same time they dogmatically assert that reality doesn't evince God

I say >>> that's rubbish  

JeSoul:

---

Haba, Chessmaster

@JeSoul: Well I meant exactly what I said. I am not one of the political ones.  

olojoro:

Scattered across the earth. I'm pretty sure you may have stumbled across some in your lifetime. Or haven't you?

And you have not yet stumbled across the truly compelling arguments for Christianity and for the existence of God?

Enigma:

And you have not yet stumbled across the truly compelling arguments for Christianity and for the existence of God?

Secret: this is heavily dependent on the keywords and filters you have set on your search engine. lol.

@ Uyi, You were six years old, and Jehovah witness literature convinced you of God, and at 8 you became Christian and when you were ten your dad converted. . .  Interesting.

I don't think most six year olds if any at all have enough in their database to make those kinds of judgments. They're still learning how the world works and are still very gullible. I think most things we learn before our mid-teens should be re-evaluated tbh. I just think once we accept something as true and base our lives on it it is very difficult to go back. Few naturally curious people can do it, but it's generally difficult.

Deep Sight:

^^^^ aRRRGGGGHHH!

The goal of ALL religions is the the development of the spirit towards the LIGHT.

NOW I AM INDEED OFF FOR THAT BEER! DO NOT TEMPT ME: THAT MAY AMOUNT TO TREASON.

Or blasphemy. Thou shalt not tempt the lord thy god.

why does this definition reek of that Grail movement ? * been a long time since I read their book*

So what becomes of stuuf like Church of Stan and co >>>> probably they become religions that develop the spirit towards the dark

Oya !!! >>> what is tis LIGHT you talk about?

Enigma:

And you have not yet stumbled across the truly compelling arguments for Christianity and for the existence of God?

Not for the supernatural claims and the nature of God that western monotheistic religions profess.

Yet your "compelling" evidence that religious people are "missing the plot" is scattered all around "across the earth"?

Veeeeeeeeeery clever indeed.

Enigma:

Yet your "compelling" evidence that religious people are "missing the plot" is scattered all around "across the earth"?

Veeeeeeeeeery clever indeed.

Talking snakes, messiahs that do magic tricks,  human sacrifice for redemption , etc just don't do it for me. Especially when these happened thousands of years ago and I just have to believe some book that I don't even know where it came from. Why not just believe our own African folk tales if we're going to trust ancient minds with our fate?

@ olojoro >>> SMH >>> you really underestimate kids >>> probably aren't aware of the many innovations pree-teens have made    (your take)

I think most things we learn before our mid-teens should be re-evaluated tbh.

like >>> eeeemmmm >>> 1 + 1 =2 abi    >>>

I just think once we accept something as true and base our lives on it it is very difficult to go back. Few naturally curious people can do it, but it's generally difficult.

I assert that everybody and anybody is born with inherent curiousity >>> You talk like an atheist/agnostic >>> You one ?

i gave you examples from my own experience to prove that one can turn from a belief >>> when the reasons are good enough for such a person >>> you needlessly posit that people find it hard to turn from a belief >>> except some privileged curious people_i guess  

olojoro:

Talking snakes, messiahs that do magic tricks, human sacrifice for redemption , etc just don't do it for me. Especially when these happened thousands of years ago and I just have to believe some book that I don't even know where it came from. Why not just believe our own African folk tales if we're going to trust ancient minds with our fate?

Believe what you like - whether African folk tales or something else. Just don't make empty assertions like proof for one thing is scattered across the earth and there is no proof for the other thing.

Uyi Iredia:

@ olojoro >>> SMH >>> you really underestimate kids >>> probably aren't aware of the many innovations pree-teens have made    (your take)

like >>> eeeemmmm >>> 1 + 1 =2 abi    >>>

Exactly! If you can show 1+1 to be something other than two then go for it.

I've been waiting all my life to see a snake's vocal chords, or a virgin pregnancy without artificial means. I'm still waiting.

Uyi Iredia:

I assert that everybody and anybody is born with inherent curiousity >>> You talk like an atheist/agnostic >>> You one ?

Maybe we all are. That's why i wonder why many people believe things from one book when they will dismiss the same type of stories if they came from anywhere else.

I'm the holy spirit on steroids.

Uyi Iredia:

i gave you examples from my own experience to prove that one can turn from a belief >>> when the reasons are good enough for such a person >>> you needlessly posit that people find it hard to turn from a belief >>> except some privileged curious people_i guess  

I just stated that maybe you were too young to make an educated decision. I know of many adults that became religious as adults so I don't think my comment shows anything. I was just stating what I thought of your situation.

Uyi Iredia:
@ homer >>> We previously argued on faith >>> Would you concede that with respect to the possibility that there is in fact a God, atheists have faith ?

>>> put in another way >>> would you agree that atheists have faith in the fact that there is no God ?

>>> contrast the two questions and give me an answer

This is one definition of atheism that I do not agree with because to me it is incoherent.
I find it incoherent due to some of the definitions of God. Besides, faith as used with religion to me amounts to accepting things on poor or no evidence.
To put in perspective, is your non-belief in Zeus is based on faith?

thehomer:

This is one definition of atheism that I do not agree with because to me it is incoherent.
I find it incoherent due to some of the definitions of God. Besides, faith as used with religion to me amounts to accepting things on poor or no evidence.
To put in perspective, is your non-belief in Zeus is based on faith?

this is incoherent in of itself. Faith is not primarily tied to religion. For example you have "faith" that the sun will rise tomorrow . . . now on what evidence is that based? How do you know the earth wont end in the next 2 mins?

With regard to your last comment . . . yeah my non-belief in Zeus is based on faith . . . faith that he never existed.