MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s3/images/MuttleyHappyB.gif[/img]
Happy Birthday ichuka!
I pray you have a phenomenal time today.
I also pray you henceforth get all your bread and all the crumbs too.
In fact, 3 John 1:2, "Beloved, I pray you, to prosper concerning all things and to be in good health, just as your soul prospers."

Thanks bro lol.

To answer your question I will jus add to what missjo has said.she spoke about the covering of sin by animal skin in Genesis by God.but let's look at the offense itself.

God’s works issue from God’s throne, God’s throne is established upon authority. All things have been created by the authority of God, and all laws on earth are held together through authority. Hence, the Bible says that God upholds all things by the word, which is of His authority (Heb. 1:3b). It does not say that God upholds all things by His power. God’s authority represents God Himself; God’s power only represents God’s works. It is easy to be forgiven of sin against God’s power, but it is not that easy to be forgiven of sin against God’s authority, because sinning against God’s authority is sinning against God Himself. Sinning/offense against your brother you might be forgiven easily.but an offense against the Queen/Prime minister of London might result to one losing his life.and the bible says that LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD.Leviticus 17:14
Sin against God is a sin against all and what He stands for.and God said that the price for sin against Him is death.

Regarding why Jesus is both God and Man?
I thought I explain that earlier.but let's look at Galatains3:20 DEEPLY.' Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.!!
That's the Mediator,God and man ARE ONE!!
He that's offended is God,if there's a mediator He is God and the offender is also God.
GOD IS ONE!

ichuka:
Thanks bro lol.

To answer your question I will jus add to what missjo has said. she spoke about the covering of sin by animal skin in Genesis by God but let's look at the offense itself.

Just as I previously asked missjo, where in the text did you read that God killed an animal to provide raw material to make coats of skins covering, hmmm? Or that is what you learned isnt it. Right?

I laughed when kkins25 counter asked with "where in the bible did it say that God did not use animal hide?" After they lost their cloth of righteousness, the skin we currently have is what God made in Genesis 3:21 to clothe and cover them up with

ichuka:
God’s works issue from God’s throne, God’s throne is established upon authority. All things have been created by the authority of God, and all laws on earth are held together through authority. Hence, the Bible says that God upholds all things by the word, which is of His authority (Heb. 1:3b). It does not say that God upholds all things by His power. God’s authority represents God Himself; God’s power only represents God’s works. It is easy to be forgiven of sin against God’s power, but it is not that easy to be forgiven of sin against God’s authority, because sinning against God’s authority is sinning against God Himself. Sinning/offense against your brother you might be forgiven easily.but an offense against the Queen/Prime minister of London might result to one losing his life.and the bible says that LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD. Leviticus 17:14
Sin against God is a sin against all and what He stands for.and God said that the price for sin against Him is death.

Of course, you would know, I'll pull you up on this. You cant just make a passing "LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD" comment just like that, without being ready and prepared to, in details, explain what "LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD" means. Even tell why and how this can be.

ichuka:
Regarding why Jesus is both God and Man?
I thought I explain that earlier.but let's look at Galatains 3:20 DEEPLY.' Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.!!
That's the Mediator, God and man ARE ONE!!
He that's offended is God, if there's a mediator He is God and the offender is also God.
GOD IS ONE!

I am sorry, I dont see the connection and/or relevance of Galatains 3:20 to any of this.
Also how is "the offender is also God" sic

MuttleyLaff:
Just as I previously asked missjo, where in the text did you read that God killed an animal to provide raw material to make coats of skins covering, hmmm? Or that is what you learned isnt it. Right?

I laughed when kkins25 counter asked with "where in the bible did it say that God did not use animal hide?" After they lost their cloth of righteousness, the skin we currently have is what God made in Genesis 3:21 to clothe and cover them up with

Of course, you would know, I'll pull you up on this. You cant just make a paasing "LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD" comment just like, without ready and prepared to in details explain what "LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD" means. Even tell why and how this can be.

I am sorry, I dont see the connection and/or relevance of Galatains 3:20 to any of this.
Also how is "the offender is also God" sic

Lol
Bro
Have to go now
Will detail Galatains 3:20 later today hopefully

ichuka:
Why, in God’s plan of redemption, must Christ be both God and man at the same time?

There is nothing like that my dear. Whoever said so is the Antichrist. 1jhn 2:21-22.

There is a Father and a son. Trinity denies that by saying God is the father and the son is the father too. They say father and son are the same. Antichrist.

ichuka:
Why, in God’s plan of redemption, must Christ be both God and man at the same time?

JMAN05:
There is nothing like that my dear. Whoever said so is the Antichrist. 1jhn 2:21-22.

There is a Father and a son. Trinity denies that by saying God is the father and the son is the father too. They say father and son are the same. Antichrist.

JMAN05, are you saying it is hard and something impossible for God to do as in exist and being the Father and the Son at the same time, hmm?

MuttleyLaff:


I liked the post then asked a simple, straightforward direct question based on your comments above about the God fatherhood, that at what time did God start to be a Father?
Do you have a verse(s) to provide as evidence to support or prove the truth of your answer with?

Apologies for the delayed response.

The fatherhood of God has always been, continues to, and will always be. The bible talks about God's authority from the creation story in Genesis.
However before this, there was always God as a father (authority) before the beginning as we know it.


Isaiah 14:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isaiah in the previous verses before this was prophesying about the second coming right until verse 12 here and lasting till verse 14, where the writer suddenly switches to talking about his rebellion which happened long before creation. This vision is through the holy spirit from God, it is not Isaiah himself talking directly to Lucifer but the spirit ministering through him the voice of God.
In effect, God has referred to himself as the father of all things by calling Lucifer the on of the morning.
There cannot be a son without a father.

John 5:36-37 King James Version (KJV)
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Jesus has always been from before the beginning. Here he is speaking of him who sent him and called him father. Jesus did not automatically become a son when he took human form, he has always been so as is Lucifer and the angels.

The other we talked about the Nephilim. They were the offspring of the sons of God (fatherhood) breeding with the daughters of men.

missjo:
Apologies for the delayed response.

I don't know why I used to call you misssjojo instead of missjo. Anyway I've managed to correct myself on that. Hey don't worry about delayed response.

missjo:
The fatherhood of God has always been, continues to, and will always be.

You haven't answered the thrust of my question missjo and that is when, as in, at what point or moment did God start being a Father. Don't forget your backing scripture to support and validate your answer lol.

missjo:
The bible talks about God's authority from the creation story in Genesis.
However before this, there was always God as a father (authority) before the beginning as we know it.

Authority doesn't necessarily equate to fatherhood missjo. God wielded authority long before He ever became a Father now, so what are you trying to pull here with this lame and weak comment, hmm?

Is God the Father of animals, is He the Father of mountains, is He the Father of fishes? Yeah you are getting the drift

missjo:
Isaiah 14:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isaiah in the previous verses before this was prophesying about the second coming right until verse 12 here and lasting till verse 14, where the writer suddenly switches to talking about his rebellion which happened long before creation. This vision is through the holy spirit from God, it is not Isaiah himself talking directly to Lucifer but the spirit ministering through him the voice of God.

What are you driving at with "son of morning" huh? Why have you emboldened "son of morning"? What point are you making with the son and morning? Who and/or what is the morning?

missjo:
In effect, God has referred to himself as the father of all things by calling Lucifer the son of the morning.
There cannot be a son without a father.

Is the m in that morning capitalised at all, as in, is it in upper case M, hmm? I am just asking ni ooo, missjo, as it would be in your good stead if it is, don't you think, hmm? Eisegesis tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk, hmm, be careful of that.

missjo:
John 5:36-37 King James Version (KJV)
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

So? What's wrong in One sending Himself?

missjo:
Jesus has always been from before the beginning. Here he is speaking of him who sent him and called him father.

1/ What was Jesus from this very beginning, before being Jesus, hmm?
2/ Is there anything wrong in God sending Himself an errand to earth, hmm?
3/ Technically speaking who and what would you call the person who sent to earth, the one called Jesus Christ, hmm?

missjo:
Jesus did not automatically become a son when he took human form, He has always been so as is Lucifer and the angels.

I laugh out in Greek at your poor pretexting with scripture

missjo:
The other we talked about the Nephilim. They were the offspring of the sons of God (fatherhood) breeding with the daughters of men

missjo, please show me the verse(s) were the Nephilim in the Bible are outrightly mentioned to be sons of God.

If you develop the habit of correctly and properly answering questions asked you, if you do not duck and dive from my series of questioning, you'll then soon will change your tune and eat your words about the Nephilim being the sons of God. Lol

It would have gone a long way, iff you had correctly answered when God started being a Father

MuttleyLaff:
I don't know why I used to call you misssjojo instead of missjo. Anyway I've managed to correct myself on that. Hey don't worry about delayed response.

You haven't answered the thrust of my question missjo and that is when, as in, at what point or moment did God start being a Father. Don't forget your backing scripture to support and validate your answer lol.

Authority doesn't necessarily equate to fatherhood missjo. God wielded authority long before He ever became a Father now, so what are you trying to pull here with this lame and weak comment, hmm?

Is God the Father of animals, is He the Father of mountains, is He the Father of fishes? Yeah you are getting the drift

What are you driving at with "son of morning" huh? Why have you emboldened "son of morning"? What point are you making with the son and morning? Who and/or what is the morning?

Is the m in that morning capitalised at all, as in, is it in upper case M, hmm? I am just asking ni ooo, missjo, as it would be in your good stead if it is, don't you think, hmm? Eisegesis tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk, hmm, be careful of that.

So? What's wrong in One sending Himself?

1/ What was Jesus from this very beginning, before being Jesus, hmm?
2/ Is there anything wrong in God sending Himself an errand to earth, hmm?
3/ Technically speaking who and what would you call the person who sent to earth, the one called Jesus Christ, hmm?

I laugh out in Greek at your poor pretexting with scripture

missjo, please show me the verse(s) were the Nephilim in the Bible are outrightly mentioned to be sons of God.

If you develop the habit of correctly and properly answering questions asked you, if you do not duck and dive from my series of questioning, you'll then soon will change your tune and eat your words about the Nephilim being the sons of God. Lol

It would have gone a long way, iff you had correctly answered when God started being a Father

The answers you require are all there Muttley. And correction, i didn't say the Nephilim (giants) are the sons of God, i said they are the offsprings of the sons of God.

Genesis 6-1 The Message (MSG)
1 When the human race began to increase, with more and more daughters being born, the sons of God (fatherhood) noticed that the daughters of men were beautiful. They looked them over and picked out wives for themselves.

Genesis 6:4 New Living Translation
In those days, and for some time after, giant Nephilites lived on the earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with women, they gave birth to children who became the heroes and famous warriors of ancient times.


As i said before, God's fatherhood has always been from before the beginning, but since the bible begins with the Genesis account of creation, those are verses which reference his fatherhood.
This is the answer to your question in case you missed it.

missjo:
The answers you require are all there Muttley.

I only asked for one answer, not answers missjo. All I see what you call answers are you making use of many and/or too many words to hide under and bury the fact that you still havent answered the thrust of my question.

missjo:
And correction, i didn't say the Nephilim (giants) are the sons of God, i said they are the offsprings of the sons of God.

Never mind if I thought you said Nephilim (giants) are the sons of God, but hey, please indulge me, who according to your understanding or as far as you are concerned are the "sons of God". I must say, I very much would like to have the verse(s) you rely upon that categorically and specifically calls whatever your answer is the "sons of God". Thank you.

missjo:
Genesis 6-1 The Message (MSG)
1 When the human race began to increase, with more and more daughters being born, the sons of God (fatherhood) noticed that the daughters of men were beautiful. They looked them over and picked out wives for themselves.

Erh now, so why are you finding it difficult to tell me when specifically did God start being a Father missjo, hmm? Tell me when or just throw in the towel and say you dont know abi.

missjo:
Genesis 6:4 New Living Translation
In those days, and for some time after, giant Nephilites lived on the earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with women, they gave birth to children who became the heroes and famous warriors of ancient times.

1/ Who, for crying out loud are the sons of God?
2/ Where in a way that is exact and clear does the Bible call the answer you gave in #1 above sons of God please

missjo:
As i said before, God's fatherhood has always been from before the beginning,

When before the beginning did God's Fatherhood start missjo?

missjo:
but since the bible begins with the Genesis account of creation, those are verses which reference his fatherhood.

What are the verses? Provide them, let's peer review them together now and see?

missjo:
This is the answer to your question in case you missed it.

Oh, that really takes the biscuit. I think you are having a laugh at my expense, right?

missjo:

Apologies for the delayed response.

The fatherhood of God has always been, continues to, and will always be. The bible talks about God's authority from the creation story in Genesis.
However before this, there was always God as a father (authority) before the beginning as we know it.


Isaiah 14:12 King James Version (KJV)
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isaiah in the previous verses before this was prophesying about the second coming right until verse 12 here and lasting till verse 14, where the writer suddenly switches to talking about his rebellion which happened long before creation. This vision is through the holy spirit from God, it is not Isaiah himself talking directly to Lucifer but the spirit ministering through him the voice of God.
In effect, God has referred to himself as the father of all things by calling Lucifer the on of the morning.
There cannot be a son without a father.

John 5:36-37 King James Version (KJV)
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Jesus has always been from before the beginning. Here he is speaking of him who sent him and called him father. Jesus did not automatically become a son when he took human form, he has always been so as is Lucifer and the angels.

The other we talked about the Nephilim. They were the offspring of the sons of God (fatherhood) breeding with the daughters of men.

I wouldn't quite put it as you have.

The business of Fatherhood in the Deity is due to the Plan of God in Creation. In God's Plan, there are different Roles that need to be filled in order for the Plan to work. Fatherhood is one of them. Sonship is another. Yet another is the Role of Empowerer. These are only Roles, and the functions sometimes overlap. The Three Members of the Godhead each chose the Role that They would play in that Plan.

The Father is the One Who represents the Authority of God to us. He is the One Whom we easily recognize as God. He is not Father because He "begot" anybody or "generated" anybody, as some theories, creeds, and ideas have postulated. That is an unbiblical appreciation of the role. His Fatherhood is a symbol or a representation of the Authority and Majesty of God to us.

The Son is not inferior to the Father. That is another Role that a Member of the Godhead took on in order to actualize the Plan of God in Creation. On the one hand, this is a role that this Member plays in order to represent to us the Mediator, the Middle Man, the Intercessor, and also to provide an example to us how we ought to be toward God. On the other, this is a role that became actual when this Member of the Trinity took on human nature and became one of us. By this is meant that when the Lord Jesus came into the world as a human being, His acquisition of a created nature made Him a Son in an actual sense, in a sense that God is not, since God has no beginning, and is inferior and subservient to no one. His Possession of a created nature allows Him to act in every sense like an actual Son who serves His Father.

The role of the Holy Spirit is to empower the works of God.

Sometimes, the word "son" is saying something more than that something derives from another. Sometimes, it describes the nature of a thing. This is what you see in Isaiah 14:12. Although, it is most definitely true that Satan and all angels, along with all mankind, are God's offspring (Acts 17:28), this verse is saying actually that Satan was a very bright angel. That is, he exuded light that was visible enough to be compared to the morning. Compare Revelation 22:16; 2 Peter 1:19.

Finally, since Satan was created, as were all angels, his rebellion did not occur before creation. I think that you may have meant that it occurred before man was created. If you didn't mean that, you can note that that is what the Bible teaches. The Lord Jesus has only been Son in the sense that He chose that role for Himself in the Plan of God, not in the same sense that the angels, including Satan, who were all created are.

MuttleyLaff:
Just as I previously asked missjo, where in the text did you read that God killed an animal to provide raw material to make coats of skins covering, hmmm? Or that is what you learned isnt it. Right?

I laughed when kkins25 counter asked with "where in the bible did it say that God did not use animal hide?" After they lost their cloth of righteousness, the skin we currently have is what God made in Genesis 3:21 to clothe and cover them up with

Of course, you would know, I'll pull you up on this. You cant just make a passing "LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD" comment just like that, without being ready and prepared to, in details, explain what "LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD" means. Even tell why and how this can be.

I am sorry, I dont see the connection and/or relevance of Galatains 3:20 to any of this.
Also how is "the offender is also God" sic

Verse 20 explains: "But a mediator is not a mediator for one." Have you ever been an intermediary or a go-between? An intermediary acts on behalf of two parties. Why does the law have a mediator? It is because with the law there is the side of God and the side of man. Man has to do certain things for God before God will do certain things for man. When parties A and B draft a contract, the contract states what A must do and what B will do in return and vice versa. A mediator will then serve as a witness between the two parties. The law states what God's responsibility to man is and what man's responsibility to God is. If either side fails, the whole matter falls through.
What follows in verse 20 is wonderful: "But God is one." But God is one! The law implies two sides. If either side has problems, the whole matter falls through. In giving the law, God said that we should do this and that we should do that. If we fail to do them, the whole matter will fall through. But in making the promise, "God is one," regardless of how we are. In promise and in grace, there is no mention of our side, only of God's side. As long as there is no problem on God's side, there will be no problem at all.The question is not how we are. In the promise of Grace,there is nothing that involves us, nothing that depends on how we are.theres only ONE SIDE to the promise if Grace that God gave Abraham and that's Gods side.if there's a mediator He's God and if there's man side,the man is also God.
For God is One.
So Christ must be God in regard Redemption.

Ihedinobi3:

I wouldn't quite put it as you have.

The business of Fatherhood in the Deity is due to the Plan of God in Creation. In God's Plan, there are different Roles that need to be filled in order for the Plan to work. Fatherhood is one of them. Sonship is another. Yet another is the Role of Empowerer. These are only Roles, and the functions sometimes overlap. The Three Members of the Godhead each chose the Role that They would play in that Plan.

The Father is the One Who represents the Authority of God to us. He is the One Whom we easily recognize as God. He is not Father because He "begot" anybody or "generated" anybody, as some theories, creeds, and ideas have postulated. That is an unbiblical appreciation of the role. His Fatherhood is a symbol or a representation of the Authority and Majesty of God to us.

The Son is not inferior to the Father. That is another Role that a Member of the Godhead took on in order to actualize the Plan of God in Creation. On the one hand, this is a role that this Member plays in order to represent to us the Mediator, the Middle Man, the Intercessor, and also to provide an example to us how we ought to be toward God. On the other, this is a role that became actual when this Member of the Trinity took on human nature and became one of us. By this is meant that when the Lord Jesus came into the world as a human being, His acquisition of a created nature made Him a Son in an actual sense, in a sense that God is not, since God has no beginning, and is inferior and subservient to no one. His Possession of a created nature allows Him to act in every sense like an actual Son who serves His Father.

The role of the Holy Spirit is to empower the works of God.

Sometimes, the word "son" is saying something more than that something derives from another. Sometimes, it describes the nature of a thing. This is what you see in Isaiah 14:12. Although, it is most definitely true that Satan and all angels, along with all mankind, are God's offspring (Acts 17:28), this verse is saying actually that Satan was a very bright angel. That is, he exuded light that was visible enough to be compared to the morning. Compare Revelation 22:16; 2 Peter 1:19.

Finally, since Satan was created, as were all angels, his rebellion did not occur before creation. I think that you may have meant that it occurred before man was created. If you didn't mean that, you can note that that is what the Bible teaches. The Lord Jesus has only been Son in the sense that He chose that role for Himself in the Plan of God, not in the same sense that the angels, including Satan, who were all created are.

Aptly said.
Just to add most people confuses roles and the personality of the Godhead.
Elucidate on the diference between the personality of the Godhead and their roles.

From the bible, even from Genesis, a glimpse of the trinity concept is gotten, from the book of genesis "In the beginning God created" meaning a singular being or person but in verse 26, something shocking happened that is, He said "Let US create" meaning there were more than one persons there.
This might generate a bit of confusion because from vs1 down, leaves no room to think there was another being.
Again God was always talking. Talking is a form of communication used to pass message across to another person. It leaves some question, if God is the only one who created all things, as can be inferred from Genesis and other parts of the Bible, why was he talking, who was he talking to, why did he let us like a council and yet the collective action/decision is attributed to God not Gods?

When we go through to even the last book of the old testament, we get some piecemeal of answers, until we get to the new testament from where we het the big picture. That God is not one person but a muliple of persons is rather confusing to the human mind, because we humans only know ourself as one person and one being different from another human being.

Ihedinobi3:

I wouldn't quite put it as you have.

The business of Fatherhood in the Deity is due to the Plan of God in Creation. In God's Plan, there are different Roles that need to be filled in order for the Plan to work. Fatherhood is one of them. Sonship is another. Yet another is the Role of Empowerer. These are only Roles, and the functions sometimes overlap. The Three Members of the Godhead each chose the Role that They would play in that Plan.

The Father is the One Who represents the Authority of God to us. He is the One Whom we easily recognize as God. He is not Father because He "begot" anybody or "generated" anybody, as some theories, creeds, and ideas have postulated. That is an unbiblical appreciation of the role. His Fatherhood is a symbol or a representation of the Authority and Majesty of God to us.

The Son is not inferior to the Father. That is another Role that a Member of the Godhead took on in order to actualize the Plan of God in Creation. On the one hand, this is a role that this Member plays in order to represent to us the Mediator, the Middle Man, the Intercessor, and also to provide an example to us how we ought to be toward God. On the other, this is a role that became actual when this Member of the Trinity took on human nature and became one of us. By this is meant that when the Lord Jesus came into the world as a human being, His acquisition of a created nature made Him a Son in an actual sense, in a sense that God is not, since God has no beginning, and is inferior and subservient to no one. His Possession of a created nature allows Him to act in every sense like an actual Son who serves His Father.

The role of the Holy Spirit is to empower the works of God.

Sometimes, the word "son" is saying something more than that something derives from another. Sometimes, it describes the nature of a thing. This is what you see in Isaiah 14:12. Although, it is most definitely true that Satan and all angels, along with all mankind, are God's offspring (Acts 17:28), this verse is saying actually that Satan was a very bright angel. That is, he exuded light that was visible enough to be compared to the morning. Compare Revelation 22:16; 2 Peter 1:19.

Finally, since Satan was created, as were all angels, his rebellion did not occur before creation. I think that you may have meant that it occurred before man was created. If you didn't mean that, you can note that that is what the Bible teaches. The Lord Jesus has only been Son in the sense that He chose that role for Himself in the Plan of God, not in the same sense that the angels, including Satan, who were all created are.

I love reading from you, thanks for this.

I came across this verse while reading Part 1 of the link you sent the other day:

John 17:24 New International Version (NIV)
24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

The above verse surely also confirms the fatherhood of God from before the creation of the world, does it not?

solite3:
Aptly said.
Just to add most people confuses roles and the personality of the Godhead.
Elucidate on the diference between the personality of the Godhead and their roles.

From the bible, even from Genesis, a glimpse of the trinity concept is gotten, from the book of genesis "In the beginning God created" meaning a singular being or person but in verse 26, something shocking happened that is, He said "Let US create" meaning there were more than one persons there.
This might generate a bit of confusion because from vs1 down, leaves no room to think there was another being.
Again God was always talking. Talking is a form of communication used to pass message across to another person. It leaves some question, if God is the only one who created all things, as can be inferred from Genesis and other parts of the Bible, why was he talking, who was he talking to, why did he let us like a council and yet the collective action/decision is attributed to God not Gods?

When we go through to even the last book of the old testament, we get some piecemeal of answers, until we get to the new testament from where we het the big picture. That God is not one person but a muliple of persons is rather confusing to the human mind, because we humans only know ourself as one person and one being different from another human being.

That is very well said indeed. The Complexity of God's Nature is apparent in Genesis 1, just as you said, and although the Trinity is not immediately apparent throughout the Old Testament, it is abundantly perspicuous in the New Testament.

MuttleyLaff, have you got a different interpretation of the verse i posted to ihedinobi above?

missjo:

I love reading from you, thanks for this.

I came across this verse while reading Part 1 of the link you sent the other day:

John 17:24 New International Version (NIV)
24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.

The above verse surely also confirms the fatherhood of God from before the creation of the world, does it not?

And I am very happy to hear that what I write is useful and encouraging to you, believe me. I do look forward to your responses, questions, and observations.

Regarding your question, it is not quite in the sense that you may think.

The verse says that the Father loved the Son before the creation of the world. It does not quite mean that the Member of the Trinity we are given to recognize as the Father "begat" or in any sense produced the Son before the Creation of the world. Consider that if it did, then we would have to explain the Son's love for the Father and their love for the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit's love for Them the same way, if both Son and Holy Spirit are to be truly God. That the Father loved Jesus Christ before anything was created only means that the Trinity has always existed in mutual love for Each Other. It is a part of Their Divine Nature, just as 1 John 4:8 teaches.

The sense in which the Fatherhood of God is really an eternal concept is the sense in which the Trinity (all Three Persons) is the Producer, Sustainer, and Ruler of Creation from conception to eternity. This, as I said, applies to all Three Persons of the Trinity. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are together the Creator of all Creation, just as a father is the source and spring of his children. They sustain it, just as a father provides all things necessary for his children to flourish. They rule over it, just as a father guides, disciplines, protects, and delegates duties to his children. This is not something that They do to each other, in the sense that the Father has been this way to the Son outside of this Creation, no. The Son is in every sense equal to the Father as Deity. He was not produced, sustained, or ruled over by the Father in His Deity. It is only in the Son's Humanity, which only occurs in Creation, that these things apply.

So, it is best to think of the Fatherhood of God as a role that is filled by One Member of the Godhead in order to represent the Trinity's Position with respect to Creation as such (that is, as Father) to us. That is also how we should understand the Son's role and the Holy Spirit's role.

Ihedinobi3:

And I am very happy to hear that what I write is useful and encouraging to you, believe me. I do look forward to your responses, questions, and observations.

Regarding your question, it is not quite in the sense that you may think.

The verse says that the Father loved the Son before the creation of the world. It does not quite mean that the Member of the Trinity we are given to recognize as the Father "begat" or in any sense produced the Son before the Creation of the world. Consider that if it did, then we would have to explain the Son's love for the Father and their love for the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit's love for Them the same way, if both Son and Holy Spirit are to be truly God. That the Father loved Jesus Christ before anything was created only means that the Trinity has always existed in mutual love for Each Other. It is a part of Their Divine Nature, just as 1 John 4:8 teaches.

The sense in which the Fatherhood of God is really an eternal concept is the sense in which the Trinity (all Three Persons) is the Producer, Sustainer, and Ruler of Creation from conception to eternity. This, as I said, applies to all Three Persons of the Trinity. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are together the Creator of all Creation, just as a father is the source and spring of his children. They sustain it, just as a father provides all things necessary for his children to flourish. They rule over it, just as a father guides, disciplines, protects, and delegates duties to his children. This is not something that They do to each other, in the sense that the Father has been this way to the Son outside of this Creation, no. The Son is in every sense equal to the Father as Deity. He was not produced, sustained, or ruled over by the Father in His Deity. It is only in the Son's Humanity, which only occurs in Creation, that these things apply.

So, it is best to think of the Fatherhood of God as a role that is filled by One Member of the Godhead in order to represent the Trinity's Position with respect to Creation as such (that is, as Father) to us. That is also how we should understand the Son's role and the Holy Spirit's role.

Beautiful

I just wanted to be clear that the 'fatherhood' of God is not a concept that begins at the point where Jesus the Christ was begotten of God as a man, but rather something that has always and will always be (timeless in a sense).

MuttleyLaff:


JMAN05, are you saying it is hard and something impossible for God to do as in exist and being the Father and the Son at the same time, hmm?

Why does he need that? Is it that His sons are incapable of doing His will or what? Are they all imperfect? Why does he have to duplicate himself? He never did so at all.

If he did, Jesus would not pray to anyone superior, nor state that let that ones will take place and not his (ie Jesus'). How can the almighty talk about the will of Almighty which is himself also?

If you say that, you have denied the son, Jesus. You have recognised only the Father. In other words, you are saying that the one that came to the Earth is the Father. In fact, the word son is a deception. He was never son of anybody, he had always existed. He is the father. That is being Antichrist.

missjo:

Beautiful

I just wanted to be clear that the 'fatherhood' of God is not a concept that begins at the point where Jesus the Christ was begotten of God as a man, but rather something that has always and will always be (timeless in a sense).

You're right about that. It is not something restricted to the Lord Jesus in His Humanity. As Acts 17:28 (which I mentioned to you earlier) and the various references to the sonship of the angels in the Bible make quite clear, it is something that applies to Creation in general. So, God (by which we mean the Trinity) is the Father of all our spirits (Hebrews 12:9, cf. Numbers 16:22; 27:16).

missjo:
MuttleyLaff, have you got a different interpretation of the verse i posted to ihedinobi above?

1/ missjo, what verse, would that be?
2/ Also how as per your understanding, have you interpreted the verse to be? I am guessing you're referring to the latter part of John 17:24, as the verse you posted to ihedinobi3 above. Right?
3/ What is the relevance of the verse to my question about when in time, did God start being a Father?
4/ Backing up with scripture reference(s), who first, in the earliest recorded bible history, did God become Father to?
5/ Backing up with scripture reference(s), list up to five lot, close or more, who God from the beginning of being a Father to date is Father to.
6/ missjo, how was the world, creation created?
7/ missjo, with what was the world, creation, created with?
8/ missjo, what was with God before the creation of the world, even before the world began?
9/ missjo, what was Jesus from this very beginning, before being or becoming Jesus, hmm?
10/ missjo, do you think its hard for God or there's anything wrong in God sending Himself on an errand to earth, hmm?
11/ missjo, technically speaking who and what would you call the person who sent to earth, the one called Jesus Christ, hmm?

Mind you missjo, you haven't yet and at all, answered the thrust of my question missjo and that being, when, as in meaning, at what point or moment in time, did God start being a Father. Don't forget your backing scripture to support and validate your answer with. Thanks in advance for your reply missjo lol.

Ihedinobi3:

You're right about that. It is not something restricted to the Lord Jesus in His Humanity. As Acts 17:28 (which I mentioned to you earlier) and the various references to the sonship of the angels in the Bible make quite clear, it is something that applies to Creation in general. So, God (by which we mean the Trinity) is the Father of all our spirits (Hebrews 12:9, cf. Numbers 16:22; 27:16).

missjo:
Beautiful

I just wanted to be clear that the 'fatherhood' of God is not a concept that begins at the point where Jesus the Christ was begotten of God as a man, but rather something that has always and will always be (timeless in a sense).

Ihedinobi3:
You're right about that. It is not something restricted to the Lord Jesus in His Humanity. As Acts 17:28 (which I mentioned to you earlier)

"for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring. (i.e. We too are his children)"
- Acts 17:28

"Sometimes, the word "son" is saying something more than that something derives from another. Sometimes, it describes the nature of a thing. This is what you see in Isaiah 14:12. Although, it is most definitely true that Satan and all angels, along with all mankind, are God's offspring (Acts 17:28), this verse is saying actually that Satan was a very bright angel. That is, he exuded light that was visible enough to be compared to the morning. Compare Revelation 22:16; 2 Peter 1:19."
- Re: Why Is Christ Both God And Man In Gods Redemptive Plan? by Ihedinobi3: 7:23am On Oct 18

The use of the word "son" in Isaiah 14:12 is done as a form of Hebraism and is in no way associating Satan and any angel to be children of God, sons of God or God's offspring. This is part of reason why I earlier asked missjo the questions:
Is God the Father of animals, is He the Father of mountains, is He the Father of fishes?.

I also, asked missjo:
Is the "m" in that Isaiah 14:12 verse, morning, capitalised at all, as in, is it in upper case M, hmm?

I was just asking missjo then, as it would be in her good stead if the "m" was capitalised, and she would have had a strong case, don't you think, hmm? Eisegesis tsk, tsk, tsk, tsk, hmm, be careful of that.

Ihedinobi3:
... and the various references to the sonship of the angels in the Bible make quite clear, it is something that applies to Creation in general.

missjo, the Bible has nowhere, in a strong way, made any various references and/or say without any doubt, that angels are the sons of God. The sonship of angels, always advanced and as again done here by Ihedinobi3, is nothing more than just conjecture based on populist rhetoric verses like Job 1:6, Job 2:1 and Job 38:7

missjo, if you 2 Timothy 2:15 review the Job 1:6, Job 2:1 and Job 38:7 verses contextually (i.e. lets just for now park Genesis 6:2 and 6:4), you will find out that it is not correct to connect the sons of God in them verses to be angels at all, at all. missjo, this is because all evidences, in the Book of Job, points everything about the phrase "sons of God" to be human beings. This info missjo about the "sons of God" in the Book of Job and any other place in the Bible, that they are human beings and never angels, you can take to the bank.

Ihedinobi3:
So, God (by which we mean the Trinity) is the Father of all our spirits (Hebrews 12:9, cf. Numbers 16:22; 27:16).

"Our earthly fathers correct us, and we still respect them. Isn't it even better to be given true life by letting our spiritual Father correct us?"
- Hebrews 12:9

But Moses and Aaron fell facedown and said, “O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, when one man sins, will You be angry with the whole congregation?”"
- Numbers 16:22

Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation"
- Numbers 27:16

The Bible has nowhere, in a strong way, made any references and/or say without any doubt, that angels are the sons of God. The sonship of angel, advanced here by Ihedinobi3, is nothing more than just conjecture based on populist rhetoric verses like Job 1:6, Job 2:1

The context of Hebrews 12:9, Numbers 16:22 and Numbers 16:22 above are each and all talking about human beings, period.

God had never called angels sons of God nor Son of God, if missjo and Ihedinobi3 believe and think He has, then, please provide just one bible verse of angels referring themselves as sons of God, of God calling them sons of God or God the Father ever calling any of the angels "My Son"

Why are your scriptures about the sons of God of being angels has no New Testament reference of angels being called sons of God?

missjo:

What is the meaning of this self-satisfied smirk, hmm, missjo? You NEVER answered MY questions! You do such a wonderful job turning aside from the questions. How are we going to have advances if you havent the courage or confidence to answer my questions and arent ready for me to further question your answers, erhn?

missjo, you're letting Ihedinobi3 and him using rhetorics lead on to conclusions that are not correct because the phrase “sons of God” whether used in either Old Testament or New Testamen scripture always from day one refers to human beings.

missjo, I wouldn't expect you to agree to, accept and/or believe everything you read face value, that Ihedinobi3 or I type on Nairaland without questioning them. I expect you not to be satisfied with only knowing the how, but to always question, question to a void, all in the quest to know the why and the actual truth. Questioning answers, one question to another question, often leads to discoveries being made and truth ultimately getting brought to the surface.

I get that, some people who are not spiritually mature, prepared and ready to answer straightforward easy, simple and direct questions and so aren't spiritually mature and aren't ready to answer straightforward easy, simple and direct questions questions put at them.

Curiosity has its own reason for existing.

Thinking begins when you answer straightforward easy, simple and direct questions questions put at you
The important thing is not to dodge or evade answering the questions. Don't be afraid of giving answers, but be afraid of not answering the questions. Find the courage to ask yourself the same questions I am asking you that you're hesistant to give answers to. Why missjo? It's because its the only way you'll know which direction, missjo, your truth of the “sons of God” lays.

John 1:12 in a clear and detailed manner, leaving no room for confusion or doubt, tells who becomes and how one becomes a son of God. Galatians 3:26 the last verse in the New Testament with a last mention of the phrase "sons of God" says how and through whom one becomes "sons of God" Angels dont get a sniff of enjoying the privilege of being called "sons of God"

The phrase "sons of God" in all the Old Testament and the New Testament has ever being just about human beings period.

JMAN05:


There is nothing like that my dear. Whoever said so is the Antichrist. 1jhn 2:21-22.

There is a Father and a son. Trinity denies that by saying God is the father and the son is the father too. They say father and son are the same. Antichrist.

The father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God


Keep twisting trinity. As usual jw will twist and even lie to justify their non biblical beliefs.
Which time did trinity say the father is the son? Liar
Always lying

You are even the antichrist. You think all your audience are illiterates that you can deceive any how.

We didn't give our brains to any gb to think for us o. We are independent thinkers

Hairyrapunzel:

The father is God, the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God


Keep twisting trinity. As usual jw will twist and even lie to justify their non biblical beliefs.
Which time did trinity say the father is the son? Liar
Always lying

You are even the antichrist. You think all your audience are illiterates that you can deceive any how.

We didn't give our brains to any gb to think for us o. We are independent thinkers

Bro ignore him pls

MuttleyLaff:
1/ missjo, what verse, would that be?
2/ Also how as per your understanding, have you interpreted the verse to be? I am guessing you're referring to the latter part of John 17:24, as the verse you posted to ihedinobi3 above. Right?
3/ What is the relevance of the verse to my question about when in time, did God start being a Father?
4/ Backing up with scripture reference(s), who first, in the earliest recorded bible history, did God become Father to?
5/ Backing up with scripture reference(s), list up to five lot, close or more, who God from the beginning of being a Father to date is Father to.
6/ missjo, how was the world, creation created?
7/ missjo, with what was the world, creation, created with?
8/ missjo, what was with God before the creation of the world, even before the world began?
9/ missjo, what was Jesus from this very beginning, before being or becoming Jesus, hmm?
10/ missjo, do you think its hard for God or there's anything wrong in God sending Himself on an errand to earth, hmm?
11/ missjo, technically speaking who and what would you call the person who sent to earth, the one called Jesus Christ, hmm?

Mind you missjo, you haven't yet and at all, answered the thrust of my question missjo and that being, when, as in meaning, at what point or moment in time, did God start being a Father. Don't forget your backing scripture to support and validate your answer with. Thanks in advance for your reply missjo lol.

Hi Bro
Take it easy na.
We are here to edify our spirit-man right?
All these your questions pass eng/geo-502 questions oo.

ichuka:
Hi Bro
Take it easy na.
We are here to edify our spirit-man right?
All these your questions pass eng/geo-502 questions oo.

Nwanne, yeah, we're here to build up our spirit-man right to the truth of who really were and who are the sons of God.

All those questions arent necessarily pass eng/geo-502 questions but when each of them questions are answered by missjo, it will, with more questioning, develop and lead to unravel who really were and who are the sons of God.

If each of those questions are answered by missjo or anyone else brave enough to answer them, it will lead to a realisation that angels arent in the equation of the sons of God or even at all, for that matter, be equal to sons of God

JMAN05:


There is nothing like that my dear. Whoever said so is the Antichrist. 1jhn 2:21-22.

There is a Father and a son. Trinity denies that by saying God is the father and the son is the father too. They say father and son are the same. Antichrist.

No such thing as Trinity or 3 persons. The Lord God is One and not three persons.

[/b]Bible Proof[b]

Deuteronomy 6:4

“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one!"

Mark 12:29

"Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One."

*Drops Mic*

because,he made man in his image and likeness

Lol, guys it's been a hot minute.

MuttleyLaff, Hi

missjo:
Lol, guys it's been a hot minute.

MuttleyLaff, Hi

Playing MIA cos of heat, erhn?
Hi missjojo, missjo

MuttleyLaff:
Playing MIA cos of heat, erhn?
Hi missjojo, missjo

Lol Muttley.
Was just getting some things done and did not want to be distracted by your shenanigans

missjo:
Lol Muttley.
Was just getting some things done and did not want to be distracted by your shenanigans

Na for hause, sette dey wait for bumbum come siddon. When you're done getting things done, I'll still be here, around, lol. Run ooo, run as much as you like but me, I know say you nefa fit hide, lol.