nwabekeyi:
the process of proofreading is a work of years of several errors to finally get a particular protein (DNA polymerase) that has the ability to replicate DNA and check for error. DNA polymerase is not even perfect, if an intelligent designer makes such then I don’t see him to be very intelligent.

nwabekeyi:


The proofreading process of the enzyme is not 100% accurate, this little errors makes sure that genetic variation is attained hence a more diversified genetic pool. The inaccurate nature of DNA polymerase is the core basis for mutation and accumulated mutation over thousands and millions of years is the basis for evolution.

Abdulgaffar22:

Do you have any scientific evidence to prove that proofreading process in a living cell came to exist by trial and error operating for many years ?

If a living cell came to exist without the proofreading process of its DNA, then mutations would never allow such a cell to replicate before it would die and decay.

Besides, is it possible for intelligence to originate from a process of chance ? Give an example of this possibility from our physical world




Almost all animals have their corresponding males and females whose their REPRODUCTIVE STRUCTURES are complex but perfectly matched with each other

For example, while male ducks have corkscrew-shaped phalluses, female ducks have anti-corkscrew-shaped vaginal tracts.

Again, while male blue whale has the largest phallus throughout the animal kingdom, female blue whale has the largest vaginal tract.


If different sets of reproductive structures found in all these animals were created by a process of chance (i:e by accumulated random mutations), then there is no way for different set of male and female reproductive structures to be COMPATIBLE with each other in terms of ; i. SHAPE, ii. SIZE and iii. FUNCTION.


Are we to believe to that as the phallus of a male duck gradually change to become corkscrew in shape by a process of chance, then vaginal tract of a female duck also gradually change in a CORRESPONDING manner to become anti-corkscrew in shape by another process of chance ?

Again, are we to believe that as the phallus of a male blue whale increases in size gradually and gradually by a process of chance , the vaginal tract of the female blue whale also increases in size gradually and gradually in a CORRESPONDING manner by another process of chance ?

Can two independent processes of chance (random mutations) work toward the same goal over millions of years ?

nwabekeyi:
Is this intelligent designer also Responsible for cancer and about 4000+ genetic disorders?

Abdulgaffar22:




The major causes of these genetic disorders are mutations. Therefore, the fact that most mutations are DAMAGING to the organisms implies that mutations can NEVER be a source of raw materials for evolution. Of course, a process which proves itself to be DESTRUCTIVE can never be a CONSTRUCTIVE process.

That is to say with thousands example of HARMFUL mutations readily available, surely, it should be possible to describe some positive mutations if macroevolution is true.

This is exactly the fact that God wants to prove to all atheists and evolutionists for allowing such abnormalities to occur.

Abdulgaffar22:




The major causes of these genetic disorders are mutations. Therefore, the fact that most mutations are DAMAGING to the organisms implies that mutations can NEVER be a source of raw materials for evolution. Of course, a process which proves itself to be DESTRUCTIVE can never be a CONSTRUCTIVE process.

That is to say with thousands example of HARMFUL mutations readily available, surely, it should be possible to describe some positive mutations if macroevolution is true.

This is exactly the fact God wants to prove to all atheists and evolutionists for allowing such abnormalities to occur.

nwabekeyi:
who designed the disorders?
Does that seem intelligent to you?

God designed abnormalities, lol...

God of abnormalities

Abdulgaffar22:
God designed the disorders in order to prove to you that evolution by random mutations is IMPOSSIBLE

nwabekeyi:
How can we test for God?
Did he just tell you that he made it so?

If he designed those things then he must be a bad designer.

How can he make people suffer for his errors, I thought he was described to be perfect?

Abdulgaffar22:


If a bad designer design your brain for thinking, then your thinking faculty has to be badly designed. Therefore, how can you use such a thinking faculty to arrive at the truth ?

Similarly, if it is evolution by random mutations through natural selection that designed your brain for thinking, then how can you trust your thinking faculty to arrive at the truth because natural selection ONLY aims for survival and reproduction. It can never aims for the truth.

Have you now seen that you can never rely on your thinking faculty to prove that my God is TRULY a bad designer.

nwabekeyi:
How how can he design my brain in such way that I won’t believe in him?

He’s such a bad designers

Abdulgaffar22:


You choose not to believe in Him. You have seen the evidence of copying and proofreading of information in a living cell but your prejudice would never allow you to accept Him.


If your brain is a product of unguided processes of evolution, then how can you trust your thinking faculty to give you the truth ? Don't you see that everything you know would become doubtful if no intelligent being design your brain for the purpose of thinking ? This means that your faculty of thinking is just a BY PRODUCT of evolution.

nwabekeyi:
Well, I still no don’t think any intelligent designer exist

Abdulgaffar22:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flagellum_base_diagram-en.svg

nwabekeyi:
i seriously think you still don’t understand the concept of evolution

Abdulgaffar22:


See the complexity of the flagellum used by bacteria for locomotion. It is made up of over 600 protein complexes. Can all those complex parts ( which resemble mechanical parts of a complex machine designed by human engineer) be ASSEMBLE by unconscious and unintelligent natural process like evolution?

nwabekeyi:
answer this simple question.

What do you understand by evolution?

Abdulgaffar22:


This is a definition of evolution;
a gradual change in the characteristics of a population of animals or plants over successive generations:

But the MECHANISM that would allow this changes to occur is the major problem with the theory of evolution.

nwabekeyi:
wait let’s take is slowly, we are getting somewhere.

Now I know you understand the key words “population” and “successive generations”.

Have you heard of the rare HIV resistant gene CCR5 delta 32?
Do you know some people are even resistant to HIV?

Abdulgaffar22:


Yes, it is possible

nwabekeyi:
ok Good, we need to follow the definition of evolution squarely now.

If we have a “population” of 1000 humans and 2 posses the HIV resistant gene, assuming one of them gets infected with HIV and this population of humans started having sex randomly without any scientific intervention in form of prevention and treatments, I’m sure we both agree that over some time, the HIV would have successfully spread across the population accept from those two individual that are resistant to it, do we?

Abdulgaffar22:


Yes, I agree

nwabekeyi:
ok, Good
Knowing fully well that those who are infected without medical intervention will die and that will reduce their chances of passing their HIV non-resistant genes to the next generation, even if they do, that gene won’t survive and again knowing that only those who have the resistant gene will have the superior advantage to mate and pass their genes. what do you think will happen over “generations” as regard the population’s resistance to HIV?

Abdulgaffar22:


The population of those with resistant gene will increase.

nwabekeyi:
ok good.

Going by the definition of evolution you presented:
a gradual change in the characteristics (resistance to HIV) of a population (1000) of animals or plants over successive generations (of course this will happen over several generation of mating).

Note that this change in characteristics only occurred in the white blood cells gene pool in this context of HIV resistance. It’s like a micro evolution of WBC that is affecting a human population resistance to HIV.


Can we now say that this population of humans over time has evolved to acquire resistance to HIV Or not?

Abdulgaffar22:


Yes

Abdulgaffar22:


Yes

nwabekeyi:
now look at it in another perspective, what if a particular population of organism doesn’t have a gene in their gene pool thy can survive a particular changed environment?

Your guess is as good as mine, that population will be extinct.
This explains the numerous fossils analyzed by scientists. Over the years, the earth’s environmental condition has been changing, the variation of specie’s genetic makeup gives them chance to adapt to this constantly changing environment, it cannot work with just one organism in the specie. If they lack that gene within the population that will enable them adapt to certain environment at any point, the specie goes extinct, they become extinct fossils for future organisms to study.

Let me give you another scenario that will make you understand this better, a population of staphylococcus areus in a Petri dish will grow well until for example a methicillin is introduced, the growth will start reducing until all those bacteria who doesn’t have the methicillin resistant gene are all dead. Immediately they are gone, growth starts again irrespective of the amount of methicillin you introduce. You already have a methicillin resistant strain to deal with, they have simply adapted and evolution of a certain protein has occurred.


The bacteria methicillin scenario is homologous to that of the Human HIV case study.

Abdulgaffar22:


Honestly, I grasped the message you're trying to pass across.

However, all what you have explained so far is what we described as micro evolution. Intelligent design proponents do not dispute the fact of micro evolution.

What they are saying is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for this scenario of micro evolution to lead to macroevolution like ;

1. Evolution of the FIRST functional male and female

2. Evolution of completely NEW organ or system.

Abdulgaffar22:


Honestly, I grasped the message you're trying to pass across.

However, all what you have explained so far is what we described as micro evolution. Intelligent design proponents do not dispute the fact of micro evolution.

What they are saying is that it is IMPOSSIBLE for this scenario of micro evolution to lead to macroevolution like ;

1. Evolution of the FIRST functional male and female

2. Evolution of completely NEW organ or system.

nwabekeyi:
you don’t still get it, there’s actually nothing like micro or macro evolution.

Everything I have explained describes how evolution happens in both unicellular or multicellular organism. I don’t know how the word micro and macro came in.

With that explanation, it is clear that evolution is very possible in all forms of life. I can still give you various examples on how evolution can actually answer your questions but you have to build upon these explanations I have given you.

With this basics, time can make anything happen, as long as life keeps adapting and evolving, it can yield anything if you give it enough time. It has no purpose. Just try and think about constant changing environments and organisms trying to adapt to them over billions of years, the answers will come to you.

Abdulgaffar22:
please give the examples