Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,153,348 members, 7,819,236 topics. Date: Monday, 06 May 2024 at 01:10 PM

Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? - Culture (3) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? (40390 Views)

Check Out How Ondo People Are Appeasing The Gods For The Epidemic Disease / Studies Show That Black People Are Genetically Programmed To Be Slaves! / Why Do Nigerians Look At White People As Advanced Humans (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (4) (Reply) (Go Down)

Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by ladionline: 3:46pm On Dec 16, 2013
Do one man have what it takes to comprehend human intelligence?
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by kingston277(m): 6:08pm On Dec 16, 2013
KoloOyinbo:

OK. Firstly do NOT confuse intelligence with education. Forget black and white. The people in the developed world are in general better educated simply because they come from the developed world! People in the developing world however, often have not had the benefit of a full education to the standards of the developed world. NOT THEIR FAULT AND IT DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE LESS INTELLIGENT JUST LESS FORTUNATE.

Because of the lack of proper education, primitive beliefs linger and take root. When Europeans hear of many African beliefs, JUJU, Mami Waters etc they think of stupid unintelligent people. Instead they need to realise that the person is just not educated enough to see through primitive nonsense. All my Naija friends are very intelligent irrespective of their educations. To say intelligence can be equated to skin colour, tribe or even nationality is simply RACIST.
So the Dogon beliefs are primitive even though they were proven correct in the 70s? smh.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by KoloOyinbo(m): 2:37pm On Dec 17, 2013
KoloOyinbo:

OK. Firstly do NOT confuse intelligence with education. Forget black and white. The people in the developed world are in general better educated simply because they come from the developed world! People in the developing world however, often have not had the benefit of a full education to the standards of the developed world. NOT THEIR FAULT AND IT DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE LESS INTELLIGENT JUST LESS FORTUNATE.

Because of the lack of proper education, primitive beliefs linger and take root. When Europeans hear of many African beliefs, JUJU, Mami Waters etc they think of silly unintelligent people. Instead they need to realise that the person is just not educated enough to see through primitive nonsense. All my Naija friends are very intelligent irrespective of their educations. To say intelligence can be equated to skin colour, tribe or even nationality is simply RACIST.
kingston277:
So the Dogon beliefs are primitive even though they were proven correct in the 70s? smh.

OK Remember I am supporting the Black Man here and saying that he is every bit as intelligent as the white. It is just the standard of education that is different between the developed and developing world.

As to the Dofon that is all well know and the nonsense of them having correct 'arcane knowledge' was very popular in the 70's amount 'fringe pseudo-scientists' and uninformed TV shows. It was all explained in the eighties. See a few of the proper scientific papers on it but please DONT refer to any of the cheep popular paperbacks. It was all exploded along with the 'Chariots of the Gods' nonsense of Eric Von Daniken.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by ladionline: 4:21pm On Dec 17, 2013
Nice one KoloOyinbo. People seeing some parallel line that never meet in the issue of mankind are pseudo-scientist jinxed to the allures of the present materialism. They often wax cultural too. Such pseudo scientists believe that throughout history people live in splendid isolation, and so it is good to look to false chemistry that seperate humanity other than recent centuries of cultural, aesthetic as well as well-informed response to social and communal needs following 'the enlightenment'. 'The white folks', according to Yoruba diatribe 'only pay for 'intelligence' of work done (creativity), not human labour'. But the average black man buys into 'physical strength' to do things 'conservatively'. Here is the difference: 'Creativity is the father of invention, conservatism is the father of status quo.' That is the cardinal difference on which other psychological differences are rooted.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by kingston277(m): 5:58pm On Dec 17, 2013
KoloOyinbo: KoloOyinbo:

OK. Firstly do NOT confuse intelligence with education. Forget black and white. The people in the developed world are in general better educated simply because they come from the developed world! People in the developing world however, often have not had the benefit of a full education to the standards of the developed world. NOT THEIR FAULT AND IT DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE LESS INTELLIGENT JUST LESS FORTUNATE.

Because of the lack of proper education, primitive beliefs linger and take root. When Europeans hear of many African beliefs, JUJU, Mami Waters etc they think of silly unintelligent people. Instead they need to realise that the person is just not educated enough to see through primitive nonsense. All my Naija friends are very intelligent irrespective of their educations. To say intelligence can be equated to skin colour, tribe or even nationality is simply RACIST.

OK Remember I am supporting the Black Man here and saying that he is every bit as intelligent as the white. It is just the standard of education that is different between the developed and developing world.

As to the Dofon that is all well know and the nonsense of them having correct 'arcane knowledge' was very popular in the 70's amount 'fringe pseudo-scientists' and uninformed TV shows. It was all explained in the eighties. See a few of the proper scientific papers on it but please DONT refer to any of the cheep popular paperbacks. It was all exploded along with the 'Chariots of the Gods' nonsense of Eric Von Daniken.

Please link me to one of these "explainations" because as far as I know, the dogon beleifs are still fact and has been theorized that the knowlage came from nile-valley along with other people of the sahel. So the Dogon Knowlege of the Circulatory system is false? what about the Yoruba theories of a spherical universe which is still wide spread in science today? What about the Africans that can skillfully preform medical procedures? Please pay a visit to your local library, these are well documented.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by ladionline: 7:02pm On Dec 17, 2013
That's right, the Yoruba would say 'aye nyi lor' (the world spins on) 'a ntor' (we are haul along with it).
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by KoloOyinbo(m): 5:43pm On Dec 18, 2013
KoloOyinbo: KoloOyinbo:

OK. Firstly do NOT confuse intelligence with education. Forget black and white. The people in the developed world are in general better educated simply because they come from the developed world! People in the developing world however, often have not had the benefit of a full education to the standards of the developed world. NOT THEIR FAULT AND IT DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE LESS INTELLIGENT JUST LESS FORTUNATE.

Because of the lack of proper education, primitive beliefs linger and take root. When Europeans hear of many African beliefs, JUJU, Mami Waters etc they think of silly unintelligent people. Instead they need to realise that the person is just not educated enough to see through primitive nonsense. All my Naija friends are very intelligent irrespective of their educations. To say intelligence can be equated to skin colour, tribe or even nationality is simply RACIST.

OK Remember I am supporting the Black Man here and saying that he is every bit as intelligent as the white. It is just the standard of education that is different between the developed and developing world.

As to the Dofon that is all well know and the nonsense of them having correct 'arcane knowledge' was very popular in the 70's amount 'fringe pseudo-scientists' and uninformed TV shows. It was all explained in the eighties. See a few of the proper scientific papers on it but please DONT refer to any of the cheep popular paperbacks. It was all exploded along with the 'Chariots of the Gods' nonsense of Eric Von Daniken.

Please link me to one of these "explainations" because as far as I know, the dogon beleifs are still fact and has been theorized that the knowlage came from nile-valley along with other people of the sahel. So the Dogon Knowlege of the Circulatory system is false? what about the Yoruba theories of a spherical universe which is still wide spread in science today? What about the Africans that can skillfully preform medical procedures? Please pay a visit to your local library, these are well documented.

The Spherical Universe was hit upon by MANY MANY (possibly even MOST) ancient civilizations, purely by chance! So no credit to any ancient civilization (Yoruba, Dogon, Western or otherwise!). I am on many forums and if I had to quote scientific articles 'debunking' every pseudo scientific ideas I would have not time left to live my own life. So sadly I must leave your own research to you! But don't despair it will not be hard. Read Dogon and Sirius as a starting pouint. Firstly the myth and then the explanations. I hope to be working back in Lasgidi next summer (and seeing my hot Edo gal!) so happy to meet for a chat and some kai kai then and will discuss/explain anything you want.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by kingston277(m): 6:20pm On Dec 18, 2013
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by KoloOyinbo(m): 6:33pm On Dec 18, 2013
kingston277: [/i]
Of couse this knowlegde was shared by many civilizations, people including Africans were philosiphers and seeked possible ("scientific"wink explanations for things. I listed the above to show you that Africans were not consumed in superstion which from what i've read from your posts, you imply their beliefs were "primitive" even for Ancient period standards and I came to debunk that. I read Dogon and Sirius a[i]
Of couse this knowlegde was shared by many civilizations, people including Africans were philosiphers and seeked possible ("scientific"wink explanations for things. I listed the above to show you that Africans were not consumed in superstion which from what i've read from your posts, you imply their beliefs were "primitive" even for Ancient period standards and I came to debunk that. I read Dogon and Sirius a
Of couse this knowlegde was shared by many civilizations, people including Africans were philosiphers and seeked possible (scientific) explanations for things like everyone else. I listed the above to show you that Africans were not consumed in superstion which from what i've read from your posts, you imply their beliefs were "primitive" even for Ancient period standards and I came to debunk that. I read Dogon and Sirius, while it has some possible explaination to consider, it does not debunk the possiblitity of the knowlage originating from another group of Africans or The Dogons themeselves origination from a civilization of sorts. This read by Van Sertima elaborates and pushes the possibility that sirius b was indeed visible 2000 y.o. in red giant form through ancient greek accounts, so maybe the dogon (and others) must have been able to observe it even with their level of technology:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110526071036AAhzfm1


Of couse this knowlegde was shared by many civilizations, people including Africans were philosiphers and seeked possible (scientific) explanations for things like everyone else. I listed the above to show you that Africans were not consumed in superstion which from what i've read from your posts, you imply their beliefs were "primitive" even for Ancient period standards and I came to debunk that. I read Dogon and Sirius, while it has some possible explaination to consider, it does not debunk the possiblitity of the knowlage originating from another group of Africans or The Dogons themeselves origination from a civilization of sorts. This read by Van Sertima elaborates and pushes the possibility that sirius b was indeed visible 2000 y.o. in red giant form through ancient greek accounts, so maybe the dogon (and others) must have been able to observe it even with their level of technology:

The Dogon were actually quite unaware of Sirius B. (I was an Astronomer for over 20 years) and simply had some guesses misinterpreted. The had zero 'secret knowledge'. All ancient beliefs were primitive! African are otherwise. i am not attacking African culture merely supporting it as no more primitive or advanced than any other ancient culture. My point is that the DEVELOPING world (Note I did NOT say African and would reject that premise entirely) still retains non logical or scientific superstitions. I HATE this as it allows Racists to Denigrate people they have no right to. I look forward to an enlightened Developing world (including Africa) free of superstitious nonsense and when I can travel to Naija without people chattering about 'JuJu', Mami Waters and such. (Dogon Mythology is OK though) I hope i have not offended but am actually trying to be supportive.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by kingston277(m): 11:25pm On Dec 18, 2013
Of couse this knowlegde was shared by many civilizations, people including Africans were philosiphers and seeked possible (scientific) explanations for things like everyone else. I listed the above to show you that Africans were not consumed in superstion which from what i've read from your posts, you imply their beliefs were "primitive" even for Ancient period standards and I came to debunk that. I read Dogon and Sirius, while it has some possible explaination to consider, it does not debunk the possiblitity of the knowlage originating from another group of Africans or The Dogons themeselves origination from a civilization of sorts. This read by Van Sertima elaborates and pushes the possibility that sirius b was indeed visible 2000 y.o. in red giant form through ancient greek accounts, so maybe the dogon (and others) must have been able to observe it even with their level of technology:

KoloOyinbo: The Dogon were actually quite unaware of Sirius B. (I was an Astronomer for over 20 years) and simply had some guesses misinterpreted. The had zero 'secret knowledge'.

I've read a person's explanation on a website saying that It was unlikely that a person interviewing the dogons decades later would not get the same answers that the two Frenchmen got, He used an anology of one person seeing fish in a river, and another person going there and not seeing such fish, would you say there are no fish in the river at all? Plus, the Dogons also had knowlage of the rings of Saturn and preform a dance representing Sirius B's orbit around Siruis A every 50 years.

KoloOyinbo: All ancient beliefs were primitive! African are otherwise. i am not attacking African culture merely supporting it as no more primitive or advanced than any other ancient culture. My point is that the DEVELOPING world (Note I did NOT say African and would reject that premise entirely) still retains non logical or scientific superstitions. I HATE this as it allows Racists to Denigrate people they have no right to. I look forward to an enlightened Developing world (including Africa) free of superstitious nonsense and when I can travel to Naija without people chattering about 'JuJu', Mami Waters and such. (Dogon Mythology is OK though) I hope i have not offended but am actually trying to be supportive.

Yes ancient beliefs are primitive compared to 21st century knowledge which incorporates these beliefs into it's philosophy and passes it off as modern science, but in ancient times it was top notch info. Are you comparing an average African citizen to western scientists? You know not all scientific knowlage reaches the general public immediatly right? I live in the west and am having a hard time believing your statement with all these people chattering about ancient aliens, phychic mediums, ghosts, race, bigfoot, ufos, etc, Please elaborate. If you long for an enlightened developing world, starting with the developed world might be a good starting point.

To add, the average citizens do not represent complete pre-colonial knowledge as they are not of those professions. For instance I read and article that some iron working sociaties had citizens that believed blacksmiths had special powers, they thought this because the ability to blacksmith was limited knowlage. The article explained that the priests, medicinemen, etc were more scientific and logical than the rest of the population because they needed material to support their beliefs or in the case of the medicinemen, concoct something that works.
Not to mention ancient peoples all over the world mixed science with religion, that's how science was born in the first place, even catholicism pioneered advanced medicine and incorporated scince into their beliefs. Philosophy leads to logic even in the midst of religion.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by Dietrich92(m): 1:56am On Dec 19, 2013
race does not equate intelligence. Never
When oppression suppresses the mind, the spirit still shines.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by RandomAfricanAm: 11:58am On Dec 19, 2013
Quick history lesson from a previous posts (enjoy)
RandomAfricanAm

[s] osystein: Why do people take pride in being the first people, doesn't that fall into racists claims that certain people are more primitive and less evolved than others?[/s]

[s]No because that idea hinges on the notion that the "material progress" we see today is predicated on the human genetic evolution of some set of people ...which isn't true, or at least verified.

This actually plays into a discussion Physics and pleep were having a couple of months back about Jews, IQ, and genetics that I meant to insert myself into but never got around to.[/s] Todays worlds is built on the back of ideas not some random genetic leap among modern man which is largely genetically the same.

To put it simply:
1. Humans seek to meet their basic needs of food, security, shelter, etc. any method(s) they develop to meet those needs live and die within the confines of that group in the form of cultural Memes. These "methods of production" are largely based on environment.


2. If conditions force groups into close proximity and provides the ability to meet their basic needs those "methods of production" once confined to particular groups spreads replacing/coexisting with other models(for better or worse).

See: Nile valley


See: Ghana-Mali-Songhai Complex
[img]http://fpif.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/GHANA-MALI-SONGHAI-EMPIRE.jpe[/img]

See: Swahili coast
[img]http://davidderrick.files./2013/04/swahili-coast.jpg[/img]

See: Mesopotamia


See Indus valley civilization


See: Shang Dynasty


See: Olmec civilization


3. In that environment which sustains larger populations the chance, need, speed, and variety of production methods increase. Given the close quarters of people these cultural memes spread throughout the inhabitants increasing derivatives and improvements while also insuring survival.

4. Those "methods of production" are further spread by trade relation between said population centers. The extent to which you are isolated from those trade routes determines the extent to which you are isolated from the ideas of the world.
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b7/Niger_saharan_medieval_trade_routes.PNG[/img]



5. As the worlds cultural memes diversify and form ever complex configurations through increased population and means to fund more complex expressions of cultural memes you get todays world.


In conclusion:

[s] osystein: Why do people take pride in being the first people, doesn't that fall into racists claims that certain people are more primitive and less evolved than others?[/s]

No because the world is the way it is because of the accumulated population and subsequent ideas of man ...along with the massive influx of capital that went into the capitalist system that was birthed by the accumulated wealth gained off the backs of free African labor in the Americas along with the raw materials still being taken from the bowls of Africa today.

This materialized not on the back of some special strain of DNA but on the martialing of a huge subset of the accumulated ideas of man that was deposited in Europe at the fall of the Moorish occupation of Spain.[s] All you would really be saying is that the foundation of the worlds accumulated culture and genetic make up that facilitated that comes from "us"


But really everybody is a subset of "us" so what's the point <---That's the real question[/s]
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by KoloOyinbo(m): 1:47pm On Dec 19, 2013
[quote author=kingston277][/quote]
Yes ancient beliefs are primitive compared to 21st century knowledge which incorporates these beliefs into it's philosophy and passes it off as modern science, but in ancient times it was top notch info. Are you comparing an average African to western scientists? I like in the west and am having a hard time believing that statement about westerners being enlightened with all those people over here believing in ancient aliens, phycic mediums, ghosts, race, bigfoot, ufos, etc. Please explain how they are different again. If you long for an enlightened developing world, start with the developed world first plz.
To add, the average citizens do not represent complete precolonial knowledge as they are not of that profession. For instance I read and article that some iron working associates had citizens that believed blacksmiths had special powers, they though this because the ability to blacksmith was limited to certain people. The article was saying that the priests, medicinemen, etc were more scientific and logical than the rest of the population. Not to mention ancient peoples all over the world mixed science with religion, that's how science was born in the first place, philosophy leads to logic even in the midst of religion.

Yes ALL knowledge is a progression. THIS IS SELF EVIDENT FOR GOODNESS SAKE! But we have refined ancient discoveries and the developed world rejected all the nonsense primitive superstition! Now as for ancient aliens, bigfoot and UFO's etc - the people who believe in them are regarded with mild amusement bordering on pity. We respect people in the developing world more because many of them have the excuse of a poor standard of education and the burden of the moronic superstitions attached to otherwise great cultures. Modern Science acknowledges where proper where its discoveries come from. Are you a scientist? I was an astronomer for over 20 years and spent much time debunking all this nonsense.

I guess we will just have to disagree on this one but please I beg you don't judge the majority of the developed world (you say western) on a tiny minority of limited intelligence who hold such beliefs.

MY ORIGINAL STATEMENT STANDS THAT INTELLIGENCE IS NOT A FUNCTION OF SKIN PIGMENT AND ALSO THAT PRIMITIVE SUPERSTITION AND BELIEFS ARE MORE PREVALENT IN THE DEVELOPING WORLD LENDING WEIGH TO THE FALSE IDEA THAT THE PEOPLE THERE ARE LESS INTELLIGENT - THEY ARE MERELY (AS A GENERALISATION) LESS WELL EDUCATED.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by kingston277(m): 5:57pm On Dec 19, 2013
Man I hate posting on tablets :PMy last posts really got messed up grin
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by kingston277(m): 6:38pm On Dec 19, 2013
KoloOnyinbo: Yes ancient beliefs are primitive compared to 21st century knowledge which incorporates these beliefs into it's philosophy and passes it off as modern science, but in ancient times it was top notch info. Are you comparing an average African to western scientists? I like in the west and am having a hard time believing that statement about westerners being enlightened with all those people over here believing in ancient aliens, phycic mediums, ghosts, race, bigfoot, ufos, etc. Please explain how they are different again. If you long for an enlightened developing world, start with the developed world first plz.
To add, the average citizens do not represent complete precolonial knowledge as they are not of that profession. For instance I read and article that some iron working associates had citizens that believed blacksmiths had special powers, they though this because the ability to blacksmith was limited to certain people. The article was saying that the priests, medicinemen, etc were more scientific and logical than the rest of the population. Not to mention ancient peoples all over the world mixed science with religion, that's how science was born in the first place, philosophy leads to logic even in the midst of religion.

Yes ALL knowledge is a progression. THIS IS SELF EVIDENT FOR GOODNESS SAKE! But we have refined ancient discoveries and the developed world rejected all the nonsense primitive superstition! Now as for ancient aliens, bigfoot and UFO's etc - the people who believe in them are regarded with mild amusement bordering on pity. We respect people in the developing world more because many of them have the excuse of a poor standard of education and the burden of the moronic superstitions attached to otherwise great cultures. Modern Science acknowledges where proper where its discoveries come from. Are you a scientist? I was an astronomer for over 20 years and spent much time debunking all this nonsense.

I guess we will just have to disagree on this one but please I beg you don't judge the majority of the developed world (you say western) on a tiny minority of limited intelligence who hold such beliefs.

MY ORIGINAL STATEMENT STANDS THAT INTELLIGENCE IS NOT A FUNCTION OF SKIN PIGMENT AND ALSO THAT PRIMITIVE SUPERSTITION AND BELIEFS ARE MORE PREVALENT IN THE DEVELOPING WORLD LENDING WEIGH TO THE FALSE IDEA THAT THE PEOPLE THERE ARE LESS INTELLIGENT - THEY ARE MERELY (AS A GENERALISATION) LESS WELL EDUCATED.
No, I am not a scientist, I am merely here for answers.
kingston: 277http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/survey-shows-republicans-conspiracy-theories-article-1.1306229
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2165449/More-Americans-believe-aliens-2-try-attack-bumped-one.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/23/on_in_five_americans_believe_in_scientific_evolution_without_god/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/23/on_in_five_americans_believe_in_scientific_evolution_without_god/ (we canadians have lesser funded science programs than they do)
http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2013/10/on_halloween_polls_show_many_a.html

Why are these percentages so darn high then? there no exuse for this the developed world.
Yes, most of my links are about Americans, thats mostly what I could find but my point still stands.

Why does that country have a huge bible belt that believes the earth was created in 6 days? The country is not setting a good example for the rest of the world.
How many scientists came out of the woodwork to debunk said beliefs only to be met with ignorance.

Why are Chinese scientist still producing nonsense despite presumably ridding themselves of such beliefs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEbZLriuOR0

Why is Japan having sucide problems?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewmcfbrown/100063456/why-do-so-many-japanese-people-kill-themselves/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku

Yes, nations need to rid themselves of superstions mostly in their scientific coummunities (science seeds logic anyway), but with such silly beliefs running rampant in contermporary western sociaty (excluding the scientific community), what reason does the developing world have to let go? Can't a society believe what they want as long as it doesn't cloud their scientific community or learn to disprove such beliefs on their own since their so committed?
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by KoloOyinbo(m): 1:41pm On Dec 20, 2013
kingston277:
No, I am not a scientist, I am merely here for answers.


Why are these percentages so darn high then? there no exuse for this the developed world.
Yes, most of my links are about Americans, thats mostly what I could find but my point still stands.

Why does that country have a huge bible belt that believes the earth was created in 6 days? The country is not setting a good example for the rest of the world.
How many scientists came out of the woodwork to debunk said beliefs only to be met with ignorance.

Why are Chinese scientist still producing nonsense despite presumably ridding themselves of such beliefs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEbZLriuOR0

Why is Japan having sucide problems?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewmcfbrown/100063456/why-do-so-many-japanese-people-kill-themselves/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku

Yes, nations need to rid themselves of superstions mostly in their scientific coummunities (science seeds logic anyway), but with such silly beliefs running rampant in contermporary western sociaty (excluding the scientific community), what reason does the developing world have to let go? Can't a society believe what they want as long as it doesn't cloud their scientific community or learn to disprove such beliefs on their own since their so committed?

Yes it is clear you are NOT a scientist. That is OK. Please when quoting about science though it is best to quote FROM SCIENTISTS and NOT from the popular press or stupid internet articles/blogs/social media sites by uniformed non scientists. They DO NOT represent science. Science WORKS (otherwise our technological world today would not). Science is proven! And if you have travelled as widely as I have you realise that stupid superstition is present everywhere by is much more prevalent in the developing world for obvious reasons discussed at lenght before.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by kingston277(m): 6:49pm On Dec 21, 2013
KoloOyinbo:

Yes it is clear you are NOT a scientist. That is OK. Please when quoting about science though it is best to quote FROM SCIENTISTS and NOT from the popular press or stupid internet articles/blogs/social media sites by uniformed non scientists.
These polls were reliable enough to get featured on news networks (of course news networks are iffy with accurate info) and it is now common knowledge. Check around the web.

KoloOyinbo: They DO NOT represent science. Science WORKS (otherwise our technological world today would not).
Just like what many ancient African sociaties believed!

KoloOyinbo: Science is proven! And if you have travelled as widely as I have you realise that stupid superstition is present everywhere by is much more prevalent in the developing world for obvious reasons discussed at lenght before.
I have travelled around the Caribbean (were my parents are from) and can see both superstition and common sense just like any where else and in the same proportions, even with the maroons up in the mountains, Here is Jamaican herbal medicine using centuries old scientific techniques:

kingston277:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvAnizSfbho
and in uganda:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Uganda_cesarean_section.gif
http://www.reunionblackfamily.com/apps/blog/show/7509452-scientific-medicine-in-pre-colonial-uganda

How did they manage to do these things? certainly not with superstitions.

1 Like

Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by KoloOyinbo(m): 1:06pm On Dec 28, 2013
kingston277:
These polls were reliable enough to get featured on news networks (of course news networks are iffy with accurate info) and it is now common knowledge. Check around the web.


Just like what many ancient African sociaties believed!


I have travelled around the Caribbean (were my parents are from) and can see both superstition and common sense just like any where else and in the same proportions, even with the maroons up in the mountains, Here is Jamaican herbal medicine using centuries old scientific techniques:



How did they manage to do these things? certainly not superstitions.

Check around the web?? Where some people promote superstition along with science and others (often intelligent but lacking in a scientific education) cannot tell the difference between the two. Sorry I prefer to leave those in ignorance alone as long as they are not harming others. Don't believe every video on the web please.

I am really not sure what point you are trying to make by these repeated posts?

Is it that old superstitions are correct?? No scientist would believe even a fraction of the things you have quoted. Mankind progresses and nonsense gets left behind although new nonsense gets dreamed up to put in its place. 'Bush Doctors' and herbalists or the equivalent in every society often get some things correct (penicillin etc) but good modern medicine is far better and the bush docs also do a lot of damage as well.

No properly educated person will accept the nonsense of Dogon or some of the other things you mentioned. Tribal superstitions are holding Africans (and other developing societies) back from taking their rightful place in the world. Fortunately they slow the process but do not stop it.

Now I am sorry but I cannot waste either of our times disproving every stupid superstition you care to post here. I have other things to do and only entered this thread to disagree with the extremely racist idea that white people were more intelligent than black. You seem to have taken my remarks on the primitive beliefs of developing cultures as some sort of personal attack. they are not. Merely historical fact. Now I don't want to spend more time on Ghosts, Juju, Magic and that nonsense. If you believe that stuff then fine but dont blame me for what people think of you (it will not be complimentary).

I do hope I am not being offensive but really I travel often to Naija (my Fiancee is an Edo gal from Fugar) and i get so embarrassed when I am with any other Oyinbo friends and any of my Naija pals mention Juju, Mami Waters etc etc etc. I just want to wipe the condescending smiles of my friends faces and make them realise that some aspects of cultures in the developED world were in the past every bit as stupid as some aspects in the DevelopING world today. (Witches, bleeding for sickness etc etc)
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by ladionline: 2:15pm On Dec 28, 2013
It's on record how the 'doctor' of the time administered bleeding on George Washington and jeopardise the old man's life thinking they were 'curing' him. But that never stopped earl Nightingale from revamping old ways of doing things. Hipocrate did not invent medicine but he was sung. Imagine if these individuals were just all about what their ancestors 'almost' or 'actually' got right! We would still be in the woods right now. Like John occam would say 'do not invent new weird theory when a simple common sense one already exist' any procedure that can not be adaptable to industry or mas production but subsistent process is D.O.A.! The glory of Africa is what the future hold, not the 'almosts' of the past.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by oyinbogirl(f): 11:53am On Dec 29, 2013
[quote author=davidylan]Its easy to come out and bark at the OPs post but lets objectively look at this - why is it that the RICHEST, MOST INNOVATIVE and MOST POWERFUL nations are caucasian nations? Now why is it that no matter what continent the black race is . . . their nations are always the poorest and most corrupt? Haiti anyone?

I dont believe it has to do with skin color . . . i think it has a lot to do with the average black culture:

1. we are largely a people who actively shun intellectual curiousity for the lazy "comfort" of hand-made gods!

2. We raise our kids to be crammers, we destroy their self confidence by raising them in an atmosphere of oppression, stifle their natural instincts to explore their surroundings by caging them at home in the name of "protection".

3. We are largely "money oriented" . . . 99% of Nigerians in universities home and abroad are purely studying their majors of choice squarely based on the pecuniary benefits in future. How many of us are in school simply because we are genuinely interested in spending a lifetime understanding how chemistry works?

you make sense, Cheers to you wink

1 Like

Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by RandomAfricanAm: 2:07pm On Dec 29, 2013
Wooo boy!
The self hate on display here is building up I see.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by kingston277(m): 1:23am On Dec 31, 2013
KoloOyinbo:

Check around the web?? Where some people promote superstition along with science and others (often intelligent but lacking in a scientific education) cannot tell the difference between the two. Sorry I prefer to leave those in ignorance alone as long as they are not harming others. Don't believe every video on the web please.
What does statistics have to do with superstition

KoloOyinbo: I am really not sure what point you are trying to make by these repeated posts?
My point is, the west is being hypocritical. They say the developing world has outdated beliefs but proceed to fill their populations minds with UFO propaganda. Also, examine the percentages again.

KoloOyinbo: Is it that old superstitions are correct??
What superstitions of any kind is correct? When did I say any superstition was correct? Ask your fellow scientists if the Bigfoot hypothesis sounds correct.

KoloOyinbo: No scientist would believe even a fraction of the things you have quoted.
What? No scientist would believes those stats I posted? There just stats, why would that concern scientists? Or perhaps you were talking about the bush doctor? I recommend you stroll down to your local pharmacy and see just how much herbal medicine is being taken seriously by science these days, and these recipes come straight from the people you are criticizing.

KoloOyinbo: Mankind progresses and nonsense gets left behind although new nonsense gets dreamed up to put in its place. 'Bush Doctors' and herbalists or the equivalent in every society often get some things correct (penicillin etc) but good modern medicine is far better and the bush docs also do a lot of damage as well.
http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/chemical-poisoning
There seems to be an equal amount of concern about the safety of orthodox medicine aswell.
And as you can see...
https://www.nairaland.com/1324798/fg-include-herbal-medicine-medical
https://www.nairaland.com/1526308/african-traditional-priest-performs-brain-surgery
https://www.nairaland.com/1168777/nigerian-medical-students-study-traditional
Medicine men are getting a lot of attention lately, and now you have doctors running to them for cures to market to their consumers as "an ancient healer from deep in the jungle now available to you". You seem overly confident with orthodox medicine for solving all illness but others disagree with that stance...(they don't call it alternative medicine for nothing)
mimifonwon: i so agree with this, for western medicine no matter the developments -it cannot cure all the ailments in africa, for africa must learn to look inward to help itself advance to better nations, am proud of nigeria for this, if it is carried out right. The problem sometimes in naija is that we have good ideas but it is rarely carried out right. There are so many ailments that dibia's or native doctors know how to cure better. For example when am on my period, i drink 4oz onugbu( ewuro), ugba water, and nchawu boiled with 1teaspoon of salt added and i dont get cramps through my period, and it helps with stomach aches too, and if you boil mburogu with ayakata, fish head and aligator pepper and give to a woman who just gave birth it helps her heal faster. Also if you have high fever and you drink ewuro( first rinse) and oha water ( 1 full cup), your fever will go within an hour. ( crush akilu,akanwu( 1/5 tsp), palm oil(1tsp) and oji( kolanut and its fruit and orchard fruit and you drink it while studying it helps your memory and keeps you awake like hell depends on the amount you take. Its better than red bull. (my grandma-native doc makes them). It helped me through out college, and my brother who had what americans called add and my grandma was like, "rubbich, bringi him to nigeria and i will cure him" lol - my mom did as she said and my brother was definitely cured, his now a physicist and i guess it made him too focused. But what am trying to say is that most of our cures we need is in nature and our native doctors are better than most western doctors, and understands our body and nature better, its just ignorant and brainwash that makes us believe that western medicine is better than our native medicine. Yes there are things western medicine can offer that native cant, but its better if they work together. Btw my grandma is a healthy 98 year old woman, still farms and cooks her own meals and take care of herself without anyone's help. So I trust her native medical ways, and she has never been to a modern doctor or to a hospital( she hates western doctors).
Wouldn't a better plan be to fuse tradition with orthodox like other countries are doing? People around the world are dying of malaria despite an abundance of herb cures collecting dust because people are more interested in waiting patiently for whatever hocus pocus the west can come up with rather than turning what WORKS, cultures learn fro each other you know. Fortunately the Nigerian government is tuning that around by sending students to study it. Even China is said to be modernizing indigenous herbal remedies to distribute internationally, why not Africa aswell?

KoloOyinbo: No properly educated person will accept the nonsense of Dogon or some of the other things you mentioned. Tribal superstitions are holding Africans (and other developing societies) back from taking their rightful place in the world. Fortunately they slow the process but do not stop it.
The Dogon issue is till under considerable debate so it's pretty soon to jump to conclusions when no one else has. They is even evidence of Sirius C recently shocked If The Dogons got knowlage of sirius B from Griaule, why are they making claim of a third star?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogon_people#Dogon_and_Sirius

Back on the topic of medicine, it seems the drug companies, Nigerian government and many others don't agree with you as can be observed with their eagerness to promote medicine men over orthodox medicine. There are well though out plans to get these methods you call "juju" into mainstream distribution through modernization, simply slap dosage stickers on the drugs and distribute them over the counter, or take that brain surgeon in the video and put him in a hospital with a heart monitor and other modern equipment and watch tradition work wonders grin Even that bush doctor lady can become a millionaire off what she does with some funding, equipment, facilities and attention.

KoloOyinbo: Now I am sorry but I cannot waste either of our times disproving every stupid superstition you care to post here. I have other things to do and only entered this thread to disagree with the extremely racist idea that white people were more intelligent than black. You seem to have taken my remarks on the primitive beliefs of developing cultures as some sort of personal attack. they are not. Merely historical fact. Now I don't want to spend more time on Ghosts, Juju, Magic and that nonsense. If you believe that stuff then fine but dont blame me for what people think of you (it will not be complimentary).

I do hope I am not being offensive but really I travel often to Naija (my Fiancee is an Edo gal from Fugar) and i get so embarrassed when I am with any other Oyinbo friends and any of my Naija pals mention Juju, Mami Waters etc etc etc. I just want to wipe the condescending smiles of my friends faces and make them realise that some aspects of cultures in the developED world were in the past every bit as stupid as some aspects in the DevelopING world today. (Witches, bleeding for sickness etc etc)

Now I'm not going to dig too much into the strawman arguments and misinterpretations in the remainder of your post but I will ,however, leave you with more proof that African society have always been moving foreword. This article for example discusses "sage philosophy" (wise men) and how they basically worked as the scientists, philosophers, and cultural organizers for their community before colonization. This research by Henry Odera Oruka works to dispel myths that Africans were tied to religious practices and were able to discern what was practical and what was not. Even some wide spread practices such as juju was not endorsed by many wise sages whom seeked logical explanations for occurances. Sound familiar? (scientific community principles vs. hyper-religious citizens, anyone?)
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/african-sage/
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by kingston277(m): 2:14am On Dec 31, 2013
ladionline: It's on record how the 'doctor' of the time administered bleeding on George Washington and jeopardise the old man's life thinking they were 'curing' him. But that never stopped earl Nightingale from revamping old ways of doing things. Hipocrate did not invent medicine but he was sung. Imagine if these individuals were just all about what their ancestors 'almost' or 'actually' got right! We would still be in the woods right now. Like John occam would say 'do not invent new weird theory when a simple common sense one already exist' any procedure that can not be adaptable to industry or mas production but subsistent process is D.O.A.! The glory of Africa is what the future hold, not the 'almosts' of the past.
So you would prefer orthodox doctors to jeopardize his life instead like Ronald Reagan?

b.t.w, how has chemotherapy survival rate been going for cancer patients lately?
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by KoloOyinbo(m): 12:30pm On Dec 31, 2013
kingston277:
What does statistics have to do with superstition


My point is, the west is being hypocritical. They say the developing world has outdated beliefs but proceed to fill their populations minds with UFO propaganda. Also, examine the percentages again.


What superstitions of any kind is correct? When did I say any superstition was correct? Ask your fellow scientists if the Bigfoot hypothesis sounds correct.


What? No scientist would believes those stats I posted? There just stats, why would that concern scientists? Or perhaps you were talking about the bush doctor? I recommend you stroll down to your local pharmacy and see just how much herbal medicine is being taken seriously by science these days, and these recipes come straight from the people you are criticizing.


http://www.healthline.com/galecontent/chemical-poisoning
There seems to be an equal amount of concern about the safety of orthodox medicine aswell.
And as you can see...
https://www.nairaland.com/1324798/fg-include-herbal-medicine-medical
https://www.nairaland.com/1526308/african-traditional-priest-performs-brain-surgery
https://www.nairaland.com/1168777/nigerian-medical-students-study-traditional
Medicine men are getting a lot of attention lately, and now you have doctors running to them for cures to market to their consumers as "an ancient healer from deep in the jungle now available to you". You seem overly confident with orthodox medicine for solving all illness but others disagree with that stance...(they don't call it alternative medicine for nothing)

Wouldn't a better plan be to fuse tradition with orthodox like other countries are doing? People around the world are dying of malaria despite an abundance of herb cures collecting dust because people are more interested in waiting patiently for whatever hocus pocus the west can come up with rather than turning what WORKS, cultures learn fro each other you know. Fortunately the Nigerian government is tuning that around by sending students to study it. Even China is said to be modernizing indigenous herbal remedies to distribute internationally, why not Africa aswell?


The Dogon issue is till under considerable debate so it's pretty soon to jump to conclusions when no one else has. They is even evidence of Sirius C recently shocked If The Dogons got knowlage of sirius B from Griaule, why are they making claim of a third star?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogon_people#Dogon_and_Sirius [b]

Back on the topic of medicine, it seems the drug companies, Nigerian government and many others don't agree with you as can be observed with their eagerness to promote medicine men over orthodox medicine. There are well though out plans to get these methods you call "juju" into mainstream distribution through modernization, simply slap dosage stickers on the drugs and distribute them over the counter, or take that brain surgeon in the video and put him in a hospital with a heart monitor and other modern equipment and watch tradition work wonders grin Even that bush doctor lady can become a millionaire off what she does with some funding, equipment, facilities and attention.



Now I'm not going to dig too much into the strawman arguments and misinterpretations in the remainder of your post but I will ,however, leave you with more proof that African society have always been moving foreword. This article for example discusses "sage philosophy" (wise men) and how they basically worked as the scientists, philosophers, and cultural organizers for their community before colonization. This research by Henry Odera Oruka works to dispel myths that Africans were tied to religious practices and were able to discern what was practical and what was not. Even some wide spread practices such as juju was not endorsed by many wise sages whom seeked logical explanations for occurances. Sound familiar? (scientific community principles vs. hyper-religious citizens, anyone?)
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/african-sage/

OK it looks like you want the last word on this nonsense. I know I will not convince you as you have not even attempted to address the point of this thread and only attempted to spout illogical superstition about juju etc which no rational argument will ever convince a silly believer that it is rubbish.

THE DOGON BULL**** IS NOT UNDER DEBATE BY ANY SCIENTIST JUST A FRINGE OF SEMI EDUCATED PSEUDO SCIENTISTS.

To say the West (I presume you mean the DEVELOPED World) is hypocritical, is offence and just plain wrong! The beliefs of long ago have been put to the test. Those passing are incorporated as science, those failing get relegated to superstition. That is how society and science works.

As for Bigfoot and UFO's (lol)... please... again you take some uneducated non scientists as representative of our societies!

Instead ask if a belief that JUJU can make a human bullet proof - often in the papers in Naija and even included in a recent Police Report - is helpful to Naija in its attempt to develop.

Instead of trying to argue that Developing world societies are no more superstitious than developed you would be better addressing your efforts to debunking and eradicating those stupid superstitions that exist in your local.

I don't want to clutter this thread any more so please reply direct. However please don't bother to quote newspaper clippings and utube nonsense to include in a scientific argument. To even quote the Dogon rubbish (resolved MANY years ago) show the false information and lack of scientific training that you are arguing from.

As for all other readers please lets return this thread to its original premise and not be distracted by any justification of primitive beliefs that are just plain wrong and diminish the society they are in and those uneducated enough to believe them.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by kingston277(m): 3:45am On Jan 03, 2014
KoloOyinbo:

OK it looks like you want the last word on this nonsense.
Or, it seems you seek to spread falsehood on this thread through your uneducated, ignorant posts.

KoloOyinbo: I know I will not convince you as you have not even attempted to address the point of this thread and only attempted to spout illogical superstition about juju etc which no rational argument will ever convince a silly believer that it is rubbish.
I don't care about the topic so much as I do about your nonsensical preaching getting through without evaluation. You come on here bantering about some correlation between the religious beliefs of some Africans and how they are negatively viewed from the outside. Then when I drop in with my 2 cents offering up proof to the contrary, the discussion suddenly gets derailed(anyway) into an argument about which culture is more advanced than the other based on level of reliance on science vs. religion which is DOA since all cultures had some level of scientific foundation as researched by Henry Odera Oruka in Sage Philosophy article which you clearly didn't bother to read. I tried to explain to you that the Op’s views are owed to mismanagement and neo-colonialism and that the west seeks the scientific view of life no more than developing. I also presented proof of this by statistics and centuries old techniques to show that many pre-colonial African societies were structured just as many contemporary western or Asian societies all through history with qualified people like sage, medicinemen or blacksmith working as scientists, doctors and engineers and average society holding superstitious views. But instead of reading any of my posts and responding to the links, you just skip over everything and regurgitate the same irrelevant B.S. over and over again. Now you think you and your shaky points can succeed by propping up deliberate misinterpretations and pointless strawman arguments about juju to avoid answering my questions and refuting my evidence directly Try again plz.

KoloOyinbo: THE DOGON BULL**** IS NOT UNDER DEBATE BY ANY SCIENTIST JUST A FRINGE OF SEMI EDUCATED PSEUDO SCIENTISTS.
Until you can supply peer reviewed sources that have deemed the Dogon debate dead as of the late 20th century/early 21st century, it’s a moot point. The new argument is weather Sirius C exists or not in which I have provided a Wikipedia link that gives both sides to the debate, but since you do not click on links but prefer to shout and swear to get your opinions across, you cannot correctly address my questions as you have demonstrated above.

KoloOyinbo: To say the West (I presume you mean the DEVELOPED World) is hypocritical, is offence and just plain wrong!
Learn to read links and check the sources plz.

KoloOyinbo: The beliefs of long ago have been put to the test. Those passing are incorporated as science, those failing get relegated to superstition. That is how society and science works.

Congratulations, we are finally on the same page now. Simply let the third world debunk their own myths and organize a testing ground for them like your recent ancestors did with yours. Ancient traditional hypothesis, philosophical and engineering tactics that pass get incorporated into modern science while unnecessary religious practices get relegated to superstition, simple, just a cultural reevaluation like the wise sages have done for centuries. Your error was that you discredited indigenous science and engineering by lumping it with juju but really, the argument should just end here.

KoloOyinbo: As for Bigfoot and UFO's (lol)... please... again you take some uneducated non scientists as representative of our societies!

If you try clicking on the links for once, you will see fully qualified sources issuing these surveys. Even if they were non-scientists, that still doesn't change the fact that the issued surveys that went around the country specifically asked if they believed in UFO’s and 80 million checked YES! In some schools they used to issue surveys about physical health to students, did they need fully qualified scientists to calculate those results? What's the need to inflate the results?

KoloOyinbo: Instead ask if a belief that JUJU can make a human bullet proof - often in the papers in Naija and even included in a recent Police Report - is helpful to Naija in its attempt to develop.
Ask your police department if the mediums they employ are helpful in finding kidnap victims-often in papers AND media here in Canada and in the US.
And please don’t sidetrack this into another “Trying to justify juju” argument because I'm not clarifying my opinions again.

KoloOyinbo: Instead of trying to argue that Developing world societies are no more superstitious than developed you would be better addressing your efforts to debunking and eradicating those stupid superstitions that exist in your local.
Didn't I recommend this to you in an earlier post with your local area? That was the time when I called westerners hypocrites?

KoloOyinbo: I don't want to clutter this thread any more so please reply direct.
I got your first message but it said something about not being connected. New to PMing on nairaland tongue

KoloOyinbo: However please don't bother to quote newspaper clippings and utube nonsense to include in a scientific argument.
Again, look at the articles and videos BEFORE calling them non-sense. Most of what you said is irrelevant to my point and my sources.

KoloOyinbo: To even quote the Dogon rubbish (resolved MANY years ago) show the false information and lack of scientific training that you are arguing from.
Seriously, when was this resolved? You say it was "resolved" MANY years ago but the latest results NASA released were inconclusive:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1995A%26A...299..621B (were you even in astronomy during the time this was written?)
Please, how can the Dogon issue be "resolved" when many astronomers claim they don’t have telescopes powerful enough to get a clear shot of Sirius B let alone detect Sirius C, not to mention THEY CLAIM both stars have irregular orbits? Again, moot point.

KoloOyinbo: As for all other readers please lets return this thread to its original premise and not be distracted by any justification of primitive beliefs that are just plain wrong and diminish the society they are in and those uneducated enough to believe them.
Yes, please. This whole argument is moot until someone provides some rock solid evidence that answers any remaining questions. Especially since it is clear you do not have full grasp my stance well enough to notice that nothing I have posted since joining this discussion fits your accusations nor do any of my sources. Please go back and review before replying.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by KoloOyinbo(m): 12:59pm On Jan 03, 2014
kingston277:
Or, it seems you seek to spread falsehood on this thread through your uneducated, ignorant posts.

[b][/b]Now you are being offensive! I have restrained myself from sinking to this level and will continue to do so. It is however very frustrating to hear unscientific illogical rubbish spouted by non scientists![font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font]


I don't care about the topic so much as I do about your nonsensical preaching getting through without evaluation. You come on here bantering about some correlation between the religious beliefs of some Africans and how they are negatively viewed from the outside. Then when I drop in with my 2 cents offering up proof to the contrary, the discussion suddenly gets derailed(anyway) into an argument about which culture is more advanced than the other based on level of reliance on science vs. religion which is DOA since all cultures had some level of scientific foundation as researched by Henry Odera Oruka in Sage Philosophy article which you clearly didn't bother to read. I tried to explain to you that the Op’s views are owed to mismanagement and neo-colonialism and that the west seeks the scientific view of life no more than developing. I also presented proof of this by statistics and centuries old techniques to show that many pre-colonial African societies were structured just as many contemporary western or Asian societies all through history with qualified people like sage, medicinemen or blacksmith working as scientists, doctors and engineers and average society holding superstitious views. But instead of reading any of my posts and responding to the links, you just skip over everything and regurgitate the same irrelevant B.S. over and over again. Now you think you and your shaky points can succeed by propping up deliberate misinterpretations and pointless strawman arguments about juju to avoid answering my questions and refuting my evidence directly Try again plz.

What nonsensical preaching? I supported the contention that Black people and White people are of equal intelligence but cultures and beliefs (I don't think I put in religion unless it was animism or other ideas like that, certainly no brand of Christianity or Islam) have held the developing world back. If not then what has? Please read what I actually said rather than get offended about what you THINK I said.


Until you can supply peer reviewed sources that have deemed the Dogon debate dead as of the late 20th century/early 21st century, it’s a moot point. The new argument is weather Sirius C exists or not in which I have provided a Wikipedia link that gives both sides to the debate, but since you do not click on links but prefer to shout and swear to get your opinions across, you cannot correctly address my questions as you have demonstrated above.

OH WIKIPEDIA the font of all knowledge!!! haha.

Learn to read links and check the sources plz.

I would not waste time on links to NON SCIENCE sites otherwise all you get is rubbish spouted by people with little knowledge of science.



Congratulations, we are finally on the same page now. Simply let the third world debunk their own myths and organize a testing ground for them like your recent ancestors did with yours. Ancient traditional hypothesis, philosophical and engineering tactics that pass get incorporated into modern science while unnecessary religious practices get relegated to superstition, simple, just a cultural reevaluation like the wise sages have done for centuries. Your error was that you discredited indigenous science and engineering by lumping it with juju but really, the argument should just end here.

OF COURSE WE LET YOU DEBUNK YOU OWN MYTHS!!! How many Nigerians still believe in Mami Waters? I just smile quietly and leave you guys to it. But don't blame us if when going for a job requiring logical thinking and a scientific/technological background that job goes to someone who rejects similar nonsense (see how PRIMITIVE SUPERSTITION inhibits all developing countries). Naturally the developing world will advance and it will do so quicker in thoses countries (like Naija) where they have good contact with the DEVELOPED world. Also where they have a good education system rejecting primitive superstition.



If you try clicking on the links for once, you will see fully qualified sources issuing these surveys. Even if they were non-scientists, that still doesn't change the fact that the issued surveys that went around the country specifically asked if they believed in UFO’s and 80 million checked YES! In some schools they used to issue surveys about physical health to students, did they need fully qualified scientists to calculate those results? What's the need to inflate the results?


Ask your police department if the mediums they employ are helpful in finding kidnap victims-often in papers AND media here in Canada and in the US.
And please don’t sidetrack this into another “Trying to justify juju” argument because I'm not clarifying my opinions again.

Don't believe everything you read in the media. National Naija newspepers told in 2010 or 2010 of a robber turning himself into a goat to escape Mopol.

Police departments don't really use Mediums (Be more discerning on the fictional TV you watch please.)


Didn't I recommend this to you in an earlier post with your local area? That was the time when I called westerners hypocrites?


I got your first message but it said something about not being connected. New to PMing on nairaland tongue
IRRELEVANT.


Again, look at the articles and videos BEFORE calling them non-sense. Most of what you said is irrelevant to my point and my sources.

Why waste my time? Are you seriously trying to say that a 57 year old educated scientist who has travelled the world is going to waste time on posts of magic healing etc etc.


Seriously, when was this resolved? You say it was "resolved" MANY years ago but the latest results NASA released were inconclusive:
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1995A%26A...299..621B (were you even in astronomy during the time this was written?)
Please, how can the Dogon issue be "resolved" when many astronomers claim they don’t have telescopes powerful enough to get a clear shot of Sirius B let alone detect Sirius C, not to mention THEY CLAIM both stars have irregular orbits? Again, moot point.

If you have sufficient interest in this dead issue then please continue your 'research'(?) on it. The scientific community has closed the book decades ago - tip proper scientific research on this is likely to be 10-30 years old. Of course the pseudo scientists will continue to circulate nonsense about it so that will be easy to find.

Yes, please. This whole argument is moot until someone provides some rock solid evidence that answers any remaining questions. Especially since it is clear you do not have full grasp my stance well enough to notice that nothing I have posted since joining this discussion fits your accusations nor do any of my sources. Please go back and review before replying.

WHAT REMAINING QUESTIONS? I have not asked any questions. The only question was the thread which I have answered.

I am not castigating any culture or country or belief set. Merely saying that the exist, that they exist more in the developing world and that they are an inhibitor to development.

How many DOGON are astronomers? How many people who believe in Mami Waters become Marine Biologists.

I hope to be in Lagos or Pitawaka later this year and am happy to have a chat if you are close. Perhaps then you would realise that I am not attacking or denigrating anyone. Merely encouraging everyone (of all cultures) to move forward!
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by RandomAfricanAm: 5:31pm On Jan 03, 2014
@kingston277
Thumbs up to you. That said you are going to run into the same problems with the self haters over and over. Typical broad issues are...
1. The attempt of translating African ideas/institutions into incompatible European intellectual containers.
2. A poor(lopsided) grasp of the general history of Humans and their activity through time.
3. A poor ability to process historical knowledge of Human activity through time to make insightful descriptions of todays society.
4. Misguided rationalizations exacerbated by issues #1-3 above.
5. Dogged stubbornness brought on by the idea that "I didn't come to this conclusion by an emotional fit, I came to a rational well thought-out conclusion". This being done under the more fundamental issue noted in #4
6. A poor "spiritual/emotional" relationship with the topic under discussion brought on by personal observation(school/real world) of that topic. While the rationalization serves as justification for the stated position; the spiritual relationship mediates which rationalization was stated in the first place.




I feel a need to repost this...

RandomAfricanAm:
Two major vectors of foreign cultural attack...

1. Media(music, movies, TV shows, websites, sports)
2. Returnees from the Diaspora(People associate the status of these people not merely with application of education; but also with hairstyles, speech, clothing, etc)
**I should also add the vestiges of the old colonial education system that's still in place**

Note: number 2 is the vector I have the most issue with concerning these self hating people. The most ironic display being the ones who complain about "backward superstitious people" who then basically attempt to devour other peoples culture in a bid to be like (insert perceived quality here). what makes that ironic is they are employing the same logic as a person killing a lion and devouring it's flesh in a bid to be like (insert perceived quality here). It's the same line of logic except concerning a different entity.

Note 2: Colonization provides the gapping hole for those cultural mores to take a stronger hold then they normally would otherwise. The self haters also seem to believe that the fact that the colonial period(that only lasted 50ish years ...spain was occupied for 800) occurred is a rationalization for their cultural "betrayal".
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by kingston277(m): 1:56am On Jan 04, 2014
@KoloOyinbo

You seriously have a lot of research to do because you have failed to demonstrate adequate understanding of this conversation or any of my points.
I have called you ignorant because you choose not to even react to my clarifications and continue on arguing about juju which I have demonstrated time and time again I do not support nor did I even defend. It seems I have to spell it out loud and clear for you since you either are having comprehension problems or you are choosing to be ignorant to African culture. No, a juju or mami waters-centric is not going to be taken seriously in general except among like minded people let alone in a high intellectual career, a traditional medicine-man, philosopher, engineer or surgeon however, can easily get a job and even build a business due to their years of experience in their fields, not even these people would take a juju priest that seriously because that is against their principles. You are beginning to sound like a culture thief who attributes any developments or achievements Africa has made for thousands of years beyond hunting and gathering to the work of foreign intervention, this mentality is typical of non-Africans and "Afropeans" alike who have failed to open a book, look at a documentary or surf the web for creditable sources and it is the main reason why the world is such as mess today; ignorance, bigotry and ethnocentrism.
Magic healing? For the third time, WHAT DOES ANYTHING I HAVE POSTED SO FAR HAVE TO DO WITH MAGIC, JUJU OR SUPERSTITION? Seriously, show me?
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by kingston277(m): 2:34am On Jan 04, 2014
RandomAfricanAm: @kingston277
Thumbs up to you. That said you are going to run into the same problems with the self haters over and over. Typical broad issues are...
1. The attempt of translating African ideas/institutions into incompatible European intellectual containers.
2. A poor(lopsided) grasp of the general history of Humans and their activity through time.
3. A poor ability to process historical knowledge of Human activity through time to make insightful descriptions of todays society.
4. Misguided rationalizations exacerbated by issues #1-3 above.
5. Dogged stubbornness brought on by the idea that "I didn't come to this conclusion by an emotional fit, I came to a rational well thought-out conclusion". This being done under the more fundamental issue noted in #4
6. A poor "spiritual/emotional" relationship with the topic under discussion brought on by personal observation(school/real world) of that topic. While the rationalization serves as justification for the stated position; the spiritual relationship mediates which rationalization was stated in the first place.




I feel a need to repost this...

Thank you. This is the problem with self-haters and non-Africans for that matter. Not only do they form opinions off pure ignorance and think they can preach it to others like qualified experts(All the anti-African threads on here), but they ALWAYS fail to use consistent logic when studying human history and connecting it with today's issues. For example, they will gladly explain that Greece and Rome fell from dominance to economically shaky republics over time but equate the problems of Africa today with ancient indigenous cultures to justify their ignorant views.
They won't even question how Mesopotamia is now part of modern day Iraq, and these people never get questioned for their logic! Self-haters will happily lap up any "information" about themselves by their foreign colonial/slave masters without question and view them as role models while shun their own culture no matter how insignificant. Have you seen the thread about the funeral practice which had the corpse sitting-in-state instead of lying-in-state? According to Nigerians, it's a barbaric practice. Look at this thread, they want equate the pre-colonial leaders with modern day leaders, ones that housed and fed their citizens with ones that have to go abroad for health care:
https://www.nairaland.com/1365502/why-blacks-destroy-every-neighborhood
smh.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by KoloOyinbo(m): 2:39pm On Jan 04, 2014
kingston277: @KoloOyinbo

You seriously have a lot of research to do because you have failed to demonstrate adequate understanding of this conversation or any of my points.
I have called you ignorant because you choose not to even react to my clarifications and continue on arguing about juju which I have demonstrated time and time again I do not support nor did I even defend. It seems I have to spell it out loud and clear for you since you either are having comprehension problems or you are choosing to be ignorant to African culture. No, a juju or mami waters-centric is not going to be taken seriously in general except among like minded people let alone in a high intellectual career, a traditional medicine-man, philosopher, engineer or surgeon however, can easily get a job and even build a business due to their years of experience in their fields, not even these people would take a juju priest that seriously because that is against their principles. You are beginning to sound like a culture thief who attributes any developments or achievements Africa has made for thousands of years beyond hunting and gathering to the work of foreign intervention, this mentality is typical of non-Africans and "Afropeans" alike who have failed to open a book, look at a documentary or surf the web for creditable sources and it is the main reason why the world is such as mess today; ignorance, bigotry and ethnocentrism.
Magic healing? For the third time, WHAT DOES ANYTHING I HAVE POSTED SO FAR HAVE TO DO WITH MAGIC, JUJU OR SUPERSTITION? Seriously, show me?

I dont have ANY research to do! Would I waste that time on your illogical ramblings?

Developing world culture contains much more superstitions than developed world. This is almost axiomatic. You call me ignorant etc and are beginning to to move towards personal attack because of your own issues. i will not dignify them with a response. Yes I am an oyinbo and have great respect for Irish culture (not so much for British but hey I am not perfect and have my own historical issues). I have been travelling all over the world for many decades and to various parts of Africa (Nigeria, Kenya, Angola etc) for over 13 years spending sometimes up to 50% of the year 'in country'. I avoid Oyinbo compounds and bars/restaurants and mix freely with locals everywhere. I also have great respect for African cultures and will the encourage the children I hope to have with my Edo fiancée to love respect and follow their own culture. BUT ONLY the parts of it that do not contain stupid primitive superstition.

Many Nigerians reject those primitive superstitions and I fully support them and their efforts to improve their country/culture etc. It is the other I have issue with.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by KoloOyinbo(m): 2:45pm On Jan 04, 2014
To Kingston

Remember my original post (In defence of the peoples of the developing world!

"OK. Firstly do NOT confuse intelligence with education. Forget black and white. The people in the developed world are in general better educated simply because they come from the developed world! People in the developing world however, often have not had the benefit of a full education to the standards of the developed world. NOT THEIR FAULT AND IT DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE LESS INTELLIGENT JUST LESS FORTUNATE.

Because of the lack of proper education, primitive beliefs linger and take root. When Europeans hear of many African beliefs, JUJU, Mami Waters etc they think of silly unintelligent people. Instead they need to realise that the person is just not educated enough to see through primitive nonsense. All my Naija friends are very intelligent irrespective of their educations. To say intelligence can be equated to skin colour, tribe or even nationality is simply RACIST."

IT WAS YOU WHO JUMPED IN TO ATTACK ME, TAKING EXCEPTION TO SOMETHING HERE! Everything I said above is correct and I stand by it.
Re: Do You Seriously Think Black People Are Equal To White People In Intelligence? by RandomAfricanAm: 6:49pm On Jan 04, 2014
kingston277:
...Look at this thread, they want equate the pre-colonial leaders with modern day leaders, ones that housed and fed their citizens with ones that have to go abroad for health care:
https://www.nairaland.com/1365502/why-blacks-destroy-every-neighborhood
smh.

That sh*t is sad man. sad
The worse part is that they feel like they are being "realistic" "responsible" "progressive" or my personal favorite "civilized"(even though they completely miss the keyword *civil*) Automation & mechanization does not equal civilization; Automized & mechanized barbarians are still practicing barbarism. Simply put mechanized barbarism is still barbarism.

Neutral Example: When the tent dwelling, spear chucking, horse riding Mongolians sacked and overran china they were barbarians being barbarous. When the mansion/castle dwelling, rifle/cannon shooting, galleon/wagon riding Europeans sacked and overran china they were also barbarians being barbarous.

Self haters conveniently skip that and other episodes in world history nor do they dare say they the fact that china was overrun by a pack of tent dwellers on horse back means that they should stop city planning, administrative practices, civil engineering projects, etc. and accept the superior tent dwelling "civilization" that was obviously justified by chinas round defeat and occupation by Mongolians. Nor do they say that the Japanese should give up their Shinto tree, rock, etc spirits and become "civilized"(or in self hater language "industrialized", "mechanized", & "automized" ...which is what they really mean when they say "civilized"wink

As concerns my ideas surrounding African spirituality I suggest you checkout my reply on the second page of...
https://www.nairaland.com/1554976/whats-literal-translation-north-south/1


As I like to say...
1. Freedom is a necessity but not enough. Choices are predicated on what you know at the time of calculating a decision. If I control what you know I control the range of your possible choices.
2. Knowledge is a necessity but not enough. Knowledge derives it's usefulness from being processed when calculating a decision. The smaller the range of process you are capable of carrying out the less you can do with what you know.
3. Processing(intelligence) is a necessity but not enough. There are a series of Processes done in executing a plan. If you have no plan your interests are subject to those who do have a plan. Be that in using your ability to process knowledge to further their plans(not yours) or simply by your interests being displaced in the execution of their plans.
4. Plans are a necessity but not enough. Plans are simply a means to accomplishing a goal. If you have no goals in life your interests are subject to those who do have a goal. Be that in using your ability to plan and/or process knowledge to further their goals(not yours) or simply by your interests being displaced in the execution of their goals.
5. There are more but I can successfully reply without stating the rest


While I commend the Self haters for wanting better for themselves and Africa as a whole.

I question...
1.The range of knowledge they have at there disposal when coming to their stated positions
2.The range of processes they were able to employ on that knowledge.(Which led to their inability to make historically consistent positions)
3.The extent to which their self hate surrounding colonization impedes absorption, development, & execution of new knowledge and processes.

2 Likes

(1) (2) (3) (4) (Reply)

The Ooni Of Ife Wearing The Aare Crown As He Parades The Ancient Ife Town / King Onwa 'Eze Awo' Disgraced For Insulting Imo King Online. Photos/Videos / Common Yoruba Traditional Wedding Engagement List

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 285
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.