Alexandro15:


You can't even read. No where did I see worship. All I saw was honor. So what's your point again?

You are really delluded, how is the Pope praying and asking Mary to save him an honour?

sonmvayina:


Jesus is useless to both God and man...it is just a story that does not benefit us or God, it only makes you to disobey God's commandment... Commandment number 1,2,3 and 4

This is crap.

How did you know that Jesus is not part of God's plan and was not in the Bible?

Give a source of your information.

sonmvayina:


Jesus is useless to both God and man...it is just a story that does not benefit us or God, it only makes you to disobey God's commandment... Commandment number 1,2,3 and 4

Bible verse to ponder on.

Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the
government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall
be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The
everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Ubenedictus, Yale9, Leis, Horlufemi, Aizenosa, Jidykejay, Kamxin,MuttleyLaff,vaxx,Bruno3000,Hundredfold4lif, Gggg102, UbiPetrus, KENFERDYOORI, budaatum, Syncan, HumbledbYGrace, UjSizzle, pastormustwacc, johnw47

blueAgent:



You are really delluded, how is the Pope praying and asking Mary to save him an honour?

I can understand if you spent 6 weeks in Bible School; but I can't understand that you don't even know the difference between prayer and worship!

OP, you really need help. Prayer is not worship. Prayer is a petition or request made to someone.
Thus, I might say, "Give me my keys, I pray you". I am not worshiping you by those, am I?

Be reasonable at times.

blueAgent:



The Biblical Mary was a horrible sinner (James 2:10), who
needed a Savior (Luke 1:47), and told others to do what
Jesus commanded (John 2:5). The Biblical Mary was not
a Perpetual Virgin (Matthew 13:55-56), was not
Immaculately Conceived (Romans 3:23), wasn't Bodily
Assumed into Heaven (Hebrews 9:27), and she doesn't
intercede on our behalf (1st Timothy 2:5... "For there is
one God, and one mediator between God and men, the
man Christ Jesus". The Blessed Virgin Mary of the
Catholic religion is straight from

RESPONSE TO THIS:

In the first place; the first objection is Protestants’ chief reason for objecting to the Immaculate Conception and Mary’s consequent sinlessness; according to them “all (including Mary )have sinned” (Rom. 3:23). Besides, they say, Mary said her “spirit rejoices in God my Savior” (Luke 1:47), for only a sinner needs a Savior.

Taking the second citation first, it is established that Mary, too, required a Savior. Like all other descendants of Adam, she was subject to the necessity of contracting original sin. Although by a special intervention of God, at the instant she was conceived, she was preserved from the stain of original sin and its consequences. Thus, She was redeemed by the grace of Christ, but in a special way— the way of anticipation.

Analogically this can be illustrated in this way; Suppose a woman falls into a deep dirty water with lots of mud, and someone reaches down to pull her out. The woman has been “saved” from the pit. Now imagine a another woman walking along, and she too is about to topple into the pit, but at the very moment that she is to fall in, someone holds her back and prevents her. She too has been saved from the pit, but in an even better way: She was not simply taken out of the pit, she was prevented from getting stained by the dirty water and the mud in the first place. This is the illustration Catholic Christians have used for a thousand years to explain how Mary was saved by Christ. Through her reception of Christ’s grace at her conception, she had his grace applied to her before she was able to become contaminated in original sin and its stain.

In the Catechism of the Catholic Church it is stated that Mary was “redeemed in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son” (CCC 492). She has more reason to call God her Savior than we do, because he saved her in an even more glorious manner!

In responding to Romans 3:23, “all have sinned”? One should ask the question have all people committed actual sins? Of course not. A Child below the age of reason for instance cannot sin actually because in sinning the ability to reason and the intention to sin is needed.

Scripture scholars have asserted that Paul’s comment seems to have one of two meanings. Thus, It might be that it refers not to absolutely everyone, but just to the mass of mankind (which means young children and other special cases, like Jesus and Mary, would be excluded without having to be singled out). If not that, then it would mean that everyone, without exception, is subject to original sin, which is true for a young child, for the unborn, even for Mary—but she, though due to be subject to it, was preserved by God from it and its stain.

The second objection was also raised that if Mary were without sin, she would be equal to God. In this case it is observed that in the beginning, God created Adam, Eve, and the angels without sin, but none were equal to God. Most of the angels never sinned, and all souls in heaven are without sin. Resting on this argument means tieing humanity to iniquity; but Sinning does not make one human.

Officially defined by Pope Pius IX in 1854 the Doctrine and teaching about the immaculate conception like other doctrines was formally defined when a controversy to be cleared up or when the magisterium (the Church in its office as teacher; see Matt. 28:18–20; 1 Tim. 3:15, 4:11) thought the faithful could be helped by particular emphasis being drawn to the already-existing belief.

The definition of the Immaculate Conception was prompted by Pope Pius IX devotion to Mary and his hope of inspiring others in their devotion to Mother of God

As a Christian and then a Catholic, I can rightly say that you blueagent, the logs in your eyes are still very present.
You don't go quoting scriptures blindly to force your ideas and thought on others thinking it as truth, remember even the devil knows scriptures and if you call yourself a Christian which by our actions and words have not portrayed that, then you should know that you are wrong. I do believe a lot of person's here have given you the basis of veneration to Mary.

Also, your long epistle is not necessary, no Catholic will listen to you because they know the truth no matter how much you try your best to call it what it is not.

Also, if you had really wanted to learn you would have immersed yourself in the scriptures people have furnished you with over and over again.

No true Christian who knows the truth, has time to do back and forth with you, the Bible is not a story book, don't read it like one accepting some parts and rejecting some parts.

Peace.

blueAgent:




Yes lawyers bow to judges.

But first a court is not a religious ground.

2. They don't pray to Judges neither do they praise judges and exalt them to godlike status.

On The issue of intention, the Bible says from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Secondly the Bible also teaches that as a man thinketh His heart so he is.

Angels in the Bible refused worship or been bowed to, so why did they not accept it, since the persons didn't have intentions to equate them with God?


Only in your small mind is Catholics all the nonsense you claim.

Christaintity and church has been existing long before your church was formed and hijacked it.

Am sure you don't know the history of your church.
You are only contempt with the little information your handlers give you sheepie's for you to parraot like you really know anything.

Go and read books by ex- Catholics who have seen the truth and have come out to denounced the mystery Babylon called the Catholic Church.

Since you are a call yourself a Christian and you are sincere with your self please plug your denomination here and then the Catholic Church and see who tells the truth.


Acts 5:30-39

"We are witnesses to these things — we and the Holy Spirit, who is God's gift to those who obey him.” When the members of the Council heard this, they were so furious that they wanted to have the apostles put to death. But one of them, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, who was a teacher of the Law and was highly respected by all the people, stood up in the Council. He ordered the apostles to be taken out for a while, and then he said to the Council, “Fellow-Israelites, be careful what you do to these men. You remember that Theudas appeared some time ago, claiming to be somebody great, and about 400 men joined him. But he was killed, all his followers were scattered, and his movement died out. After that, Judas the Galilean appeared during the time of the census; he drew a crowd after him, but he also was killed, and all his followers were scattered. And so in this case, I tell you, do not take any action against these men. Leave them alone! If what they have planned and done is of human origin, it will disappear, but if it comes from God, you cannot possibly defeat them. You could find yourselves fighting against God!” The Council followed Gamaliel's advice.
"

Alexandro15:



I can understand if you spent 6 weeks in Bible School; but I can't understand that you don't even know the difference between prayer and worship!

OP, you really need help. Prayer is not worship. Prayer is a petition or request made to someone.
Thus, I might say, "Give me my keys, I pray you". I am not worshiping you by those, am I?

Be reasonable at times.

Brother don't waste your precious time with blueagent, in many topics we have tried our best to teach using scriptures and real life situations but it all fell on deaf ears. if only he humbles himself and at least pray for direction and read those passages with an open mind and the Holy Spirit. This topic would not be here.

Mary must be honoured in my life every day.... Mother Mary, queen of heaven, mother of my savour, mother of the church, queen of peace...I love you with all my heart. All generation shall call you blessed. Continue to pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death, Amen.

blueAgent:
Ubenedictus, Yale9, Leis, Horlufemi, Aizenosa, Jidykejay, Kamxin,MuttleyLaff,vaxx,Bruno3000,Hundredfold4lif, Gggg102, UbiPetrus, KENFERDYOORI, budaatum, Syncan, HumbledbYGrace, UjSizzle, pastormustwacc, johnw47

fool, i am neither rc or worship mary
and as i have told you before, if i wanted to discuss any matter at all
it wouldn't be with you a mor-on

johnw47:

fool, i am neither rc or worship mary and as i have told you before, if i wanted to discuss any matter at all it wouldn't be with you a mor-on

You are a big fool.

Aizenosa:


Brother don't waste your precious time with blueagent, in many topics we have tried our best to teach using scriptures and real life situations but it all fell on deaf ears. if only he humbles himself and at least pray for direction and read those passages with an open mind and the Holy Spirit. This topic would not be here.

You are lieing against God and you are claiming Holyspirit. When you are directly opposing the Holyspirit.

Aizenosa:




Since you are a call yourself a Christian and you are sincere with your self please plug your denomination here and then the Catholic Church and see who tells the truth.


Acts 5:30-39

"We are witnesses to these things — we and the Holy Spirit, who is God's gift to those who obey him.” When the members of the Council heard this, they were so furious that they wanted to have the apostles put to death. But one of them, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, who was a teacher of the Law and was highly respected by all the people, stood up in the Council. He ordered the apostles to be taken out for a while, and then he said to the Council, “Fellow-Israelites, be careful what you do to these men. You remember that Theudas appeared some time ago, claiming to be somebody great, and about 400 men joined him. But he was killed, all his followers were scattered, and his movement died out. After that, Judas the Galilean appeared during the time of the census; he drew a crowd after him, but he also was killed, and all his followers were scattered. And so in this case, I tell you, do not take any action against these men. Leave them alone! If what they have planned and done is of human origin, it will disappear, but if it comes from God, you cannot possibly defeat them. You could find yourselves fighting against God!” The Council followed Gamaliel's advice.
"

What you wrote here is irrelevant to the matter at hand.

Your Church doctrine is totally alien to the word of God and the teachings of Jesus and the early apostles.

Aizenosa:
As a Christian and then a Catholic, I can rightly say that you blueagent, the logs in your eyes are still very present.
You don't go quoting scriptures blindly to force your ideas and thought on others thinking it as truth, remember even the devil knows scriptures and if you call yourself a Christian which by our actions and words have not portrayed that, then you should know that you are wrong. I do believe a lot of person's here have given you the basis of veneration to Mary.

Also, your long epistle is not necessary, no Catholic will listen to you because they know the truth no matter how much you try your best to call it what it is not.

Also, if you had really wanted to learn you would have immersed yourself in the scriptures people have furnished you with over and over again.

No true Christian who knows the truth, has time to do back and forth with you, the Bible is not a story book, don't read it like one accepting some parts and rejecting some parts.

Peace.

It's shameful that none of you Catholic could refute my argument.

You claim that veneration is different from worship and I asked you to show me examples or ways in which you venerate Mary, that is different from what you offer to God, simple.

Alexandro15:



RESPONSE TO THIS:

In the first place; the first objection is Protestants’ chief reason for objecting to the Immaculate Conception and Mary’s consequent sinlessness; according to them “all (including Mary )have sinned” (Rom. 3:23). Besides, they say, Mary said her “spirit rejoices in God my Savior” (Luke 1:47), for only a sinner needs a Savior.

Taking the second citation first, it is established that Mary, too, required a Savior. Like all other descendants of Adam, she was subject to the necessity of contracting original sin. Although by a special intervention of God, at the instant she was conceived, she was preserved from the stain of original sin and its consequences. Thus, She was redeemed by the grace of Christ, but in a special way— the way of anticipation.

Analogically this can be illustrated in this way; Suppose a woman falls into a deep dirty water with lots of mud, and someone reaches down to pull her out. The woman has been “saved” from the pit. Now imagine a another woman walking along, and she too is about to topple into the pit, but at the very moment that she is to fall in, someone holds her back and prevents her. She too has been saved from the pit, but in an even better way: She was not simply taken out of the pit, she was prevented from getting stained by the dirty water and the mud in the first place. This is the illustration Catholic Christians have used for a thousand years to explain how Mary was saved by Christ. Through her reception of Christ’s grace at her conception, she had his grace applied to her before she was able to become contaminated in original sin and its stain.

In the Catechism of the Catholic Church it is stated that Mary was “redeemed in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son” (CCC 492). She has more reason to call God her Savior than we do, because he saved her in an even more glorious manner!

In responding to Romans 3:23, “all have sinned”? One should ask the question have all people committed actual sins? Of course not. A Child below the age of reason for instance cannot sin actually because in sinning the ability to reason and the intention to sin is needed.

Scripture scholars have asserted that Paul’s comment seems to have one of two meanings. Thus, It might be that it refers not to absolutely everyone, but just to the mass of mankind (which means young children and other special cases, like Jesus and Mary, would be excluded without having to be singled out). If not that, then it would mean that everyone, without exception, is subject to original sin, which is true for a young child, for the unborn, even for Mary—but she, though due to be subject to it, was preserved by God from it and its stain.

The second objection was also raised that if Mary were without sin, she would be equal to God. In this case it is observed that in the beginning, God created Adam, Eve, and the angels without sin, but none were equal to God. Most of the angels never sinned, and all souls in heaven are without sin. Resting on this argument means tieing humanity to iniquity; but Sinning does not make one human.

Officially defined by Pope Pius IX in 1854 the Doctrine and teaching about the immaculate conception like other doctrines was formally defined when a controversy to be cleared up or when the magisterium (the Church in its office as teacher; see Matt. 28:18–20; 1 Tim. 3:15, 4:11) thought the faithful could be helped by particular emphasis being drawn to the already-existing belief.

The definition of the Immaculate Conception was prompted by Pope Pius IX devotion to Mary and his hope of inspiring others in their devotion to Mother of God

All you wrote here is Catholics dogma, not Bible teachings.

No where in the Bible is it written that Mary was without sin rather she was shown to be a sinner who needed a saviour.

You cannot compare Adam and Mary, Mary as well as every other person, inherited Man's sinful nature from Adam.
While Adam never had such nature except after he fell.

Stop teaching lies and falsehood, there is no evidence in the Bible for such.

Alexandro15:



I can understand if you spent 6 weeks in Bible School; but I can't understand that you don't even know the difference between prayer and worship!

OP, you really need help. Prayer is not worship. Prayer is a petition or request made to someone.
Thus, I might say, "Give me my keys, I pray you". I am not worshiping you by those, am I?

Be reasonable at times.

For your information prayer is a form of worship.

Why would you pray to Mary, when only God can answer prayers and provide all our needs?

When Jesus taught his disciples how to pray he never mentioned that they should pray to Mary or him(Jesus) rather he told them to pray to the father through him Jesus the son.

Luke 11:1 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples. 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. 11:3 Give us day by day our daily bread. 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. 11:5 And he said unto them, Which of you shall have a friend, and shall go unto him at midnight, and say unto him, Friend, lend me three loaves; 11:6 For a friend of mine in his journey is come to me, and I have nothing to set before him? 11:7 And he from within shall answer and say, Trouble me not: the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give thee. 11:8 I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth. 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 11:10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

sonmvayina:


Jesus is useless to both God and man...it is just a story that does not benefit us or God, it only makes you to disobey God's commandment... Commandment number 1,2,3 and 4

You are talking trash.

I have asked you to proof your source and you cannot .

This shows that you are ignorant of what you are saying.

Alexandro15:



I can understand if you spent 6 weeks in Bible School; but I can't understand that you don't even know the difference between prayer and worship!

OP, you really need help. Prayer is not worship. Prayer is a petition or request made to someone.
Thus, I might say, "Give me my keys, I pray you". I am not worshiping you by those, am I?

Be reasonable at times.

You are comparing 2 unrelated things. Lawyers use the word Lord,pray in there career but we all know that it means something different from when it is used in a religious context.

All through the Bible Prayer is demonstrated as a form of worship and allegiance to God.
E.g is the case if Elijah and the prophets of Baal.

both parties were asked to pray to their God and the one that responds will be the true God.

We all know how that played out.

No where are we asked to pray to Mary or any other person except God.
Even Jesus did not say we should pray to him(Jesus) but rather he said we should pray to the father through his name Jesus

Alexandro15:


You can't even read. No where did I see worship. All I saw was honor. So what's your point again?

More lies as always.

blueAgent:



It's shameful that none of you Catholic could refute my argument.

You claim that veneration is different from worship and I asked you to show me examples or ways in which you venerate Mary, that is different from what you offer to God, simple.

One only refutes argument when the other party wants to learn, not when they want to blow empty barrel. After all empty barrel makes the loudest noise.

Aizenosa:


One only refutes argument when the other party wants to learn, not when they want to blow empty barrel. After all empty barrel makes the loudest noise.

Typical sheepie.

It's obvious you cannot speak from your own understanding, you can only speak as you are told weather it makes logical sense or not.

You are programmed to fellow orders.

So far you have not made any genuine or serious answer or argument against my OP.

Lionqueen:
Mary must be honoured in my life every day.... Mother Mary, queen of heaven, mother of my savour, mother of the church, queen of peace...I love you with all my heart. All generation shall call you blessed. Continue to pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death, Amen.

Sheepie.

Alexandro15:



I can understand if you spent 6 weeks in Bible School; but I can't understand that you don't even know the difference between prayer and worship!

OP, you really need help. Prayer is not worship. Prayer is a petition or request made to someone.
Thus, I might say, "Give me my keys, I pray you". I am not worshiping you by those, am I?

Be reasonable at times.

One popular prayer in Mary’s honor is the Hail Holy Queen ,
which is known in Latin as the Salve Regina. It is traditionally
included as part of praying the rosary.
For Catholics who are reading this, please try to overcome
your familiarity with this text and really look at the words.
Doesn’t this sound like worship?
“Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our
sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor
banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our
sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn,
then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward
us; and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit
of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin
Mary.”

Aizenosa:


Brother don't waste your precious time with blueagent, in many topics we have tried our best to teach using scriptures and real life situations but it all fell on deaf ears. if only he humbles himself and at least pray for direction and read those passages with an open mind and the Holy Spirit. This topic would not be here.

Pope Benedict XV said of Mary that “[O]ne can justly say that
with Christ, she herself redeemed mankind.” [10] Pope Pius IX
said, “Our salvation is based upon the holy Virgin... so that if
there is any hope and spiritual healing for us we receive it
solely and uniquely from her.” [11]
A lay movement called “Vox Populi” (“Voice of the People”)
gathers signed petitions to send to the Pope, seeking to have
him officially declare that Mary is Co‑Redemptrix. Over six
million signatures have been sent to him, representing 138
countries and all seven continents. This doctrine is supported
by over 40 cardinals and 600 bishops worldwide. [12]
The Catholic Church exalts Mary as an idealized, larger-than-
life, perfect mother. However, the Bible shows that at one point
Mary misunderstood Jesus’ calling to the point that she
thought He was insane and she tried to prevent Him from
doing what God wanted Him to do. Look at Mark 3:20-34.
“And the multitude cometh together again, so that they
could not so much as eat bread. And when his friends
heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said,
He is beside himself .’” (Mark 3:20-21, emphasis added)
The New International Version says “His family." The New
King James Version says “His own people.” The King James
Version says “his friends." According to Strong’s Greek/
Hebrew Dictionary the Greek word has a variety of meanings,
including “kinsmen." However, we don’t have to depend on the
exact meaning of the word here because it will be made clear
in verse 31. Strong’s defines “lay hold on” as “to use
strength, i.e. seize or retain." It defines “beside himself” as
“become astounded, insane."
Verses 22 through 30 describe a confrontation between Jesus
and the scribes. Then we get back to what is happening with
the people who thought that Jesus was out of His mind and
were so concerned that they were coming to “lay hold on
him” (seize him).
“There came then his brethren and his mother, and,
standing without, sent unto him calling him. And the
multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold,
thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. And he
answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my
brethren? And he looked round about on them which sat
about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my
brother, and my sister, and mother.” (Mark 3:31-35,
emphasis added)

Aizenosa:




Since you are a call yourself a Christian and you are sincere with your self please plug your denomination here and then the Catholic Church and see who tells the truth.


Acts 5:30-39

"We are witnesses to these things — we and the Holy Spirit, who is God's gift to those who obey him.” When the members of the Council heard this, they were so furious that they wanted to have the apostles put to death. But one of them, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, who was a teacher of the Law and was highly respected by all the people, stood up in the Council. He ordered the apostles to be taken out for a while, and then he said to the Council, “Fellow-Israelites, be careful what you do to these men. You remember that Theudas appeared some time ago, claiming to be somebody great, and about 400 men joined him. But he was killed, all his followers were scattered, and his movement died out. After that, Judas the Galilean appeared during the time of the census; he drew a crowd after him, but he also was killed, and all his followers were scattered. And so in this case, I tell you, do not take any action against these men. Leave them alone! If what they have planned and done is of human origin, it will disappear, but if it comes from God, you cannot possibly defeat them. You could find yourselves fighting against God!” The Council followed Gamaliel's advice.
"

IMMACULATE CONCEPTION -- Mary was preserved from all
stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception.
(Catechism 490-492).
In Luke 1:46-47, Mary said: “My soul doth magnify the
Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour ."
Mary knew that she needed a savior.
The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was first
introduced by a heretic (a man whose teachings were officially
declared to be contrary to Church doctrine). For centuries this
doctrine was unanimously rejected by popes, Fathers and
theologians of the Catholic Church. [13]
ALL HOLY - Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life.
(Catechism 411, 493)
Romans 3:23 says “For all have sinned, and come short of
the glory of God." Revelation 15:4 says, “Who shall not
fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? For thou only art
holy ." Romans 3:10 says, “There is none righteous, no,
not one."
Jesus is the only person who is referred to in Scripture as
sinless. Hebrews 4:15 says, “For we have not an high priest
which cannot be touched with the feelings of our infirmities;
but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin .”
2 Corinthians 5:21 says, “For he hath made him to be sin for
us, who knew no sin ; that we might be made the
righteousness of God in him.” 1 Peter 2:22 says, "Who did no
sin , neither was guile found in his mouth."
In contrast, Mary said that God is her Savior. (Luke 1:47) If
God was her Savior, then Mary was not sinless. Sinless
people do not need a Savior.
In the Book of Revelation, when they were searching for
someone who was worthy to break the seals and open the
scroll, the only person who was found to be worthy was
Jesus. Nobody else in Heaven or on earth (including Mary)
was worthy to open the scroll or even look inside it.
(Revelation 5:1-5)

Alexandro15:



I can understand if you spent 6 weeks in Bible School; but I can't understand that you don't even know the difference between prayer and worship!

OP, you really need help. Prayer is not worship. Prayer is a petition or request made to someone.
Thus, I might say, "Give me my keys, I pray you". I am not worshiping you by those, am I?

Be reasonable at times.

CO-MEDIATOR - Mary is the Co-Mediator to whom we can
entrust all our cares and petitions. (Catechism 968-970, 2677)
There is only one mediator and that is Jesus. 1 Timothy
2:5-6 says, “For there is one God, and one mediator
between God and men, the man Christ Jesus: Who gave
himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
Hebrews 7:25 says,Wherefore he [Jesus] is able to save
them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing
he ever liveth to make intercession for them.” Ephesians
3:12 says, “In whom [Jesus} we have boldness and
access with confidence by the faith of him.”
If Jesus is constantly interceding for us and He is able to save
us “to the uttermost,” (utterly, completely) then He doesn’t
need Mary’s help. If we can approach God with “boldness”
and “confidence” because of our faith in Jesus, then we don't
need Mary’s help either.

Aizenosa:
As a Christian and then a Catholic, I can rightly say that you blueagent, the logs in your eyes are still very present.
You don't go quoting scriptures blindly to force your ideas and thought on others thinking it as truth, remember even the devil knows scriptures and if you call yourself a Christian which by our actions and words have not portrayed that, then you should know that you are wrong. I do believe a lot of person's here have given you the basis of veneration to Mary.

Also, your long epistle is not necessary, no Catholic will listen to you because they know the truth no matter how much you try your best to call it what it is not.

Also, if you had really wanted to learn you would have immersed yourself in the scriptures people have furnished you with over and over again.

No true Christian who knows the truth, has time to do back and forth with you, the Bible is not a story book, don't read it like one accepting some parts and rejecting some parts.

Peace.

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for
doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the
commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men , as the
washing of pots and cups: and many other such like
things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject
the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own
tradition . For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy
mother; and Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die
the death: But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or
mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever
thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. And ye
suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his
mother; Making the word of God of none effect through
your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such
like things do ye .” (Mark 7:1-13, emphasis added.)

Aizenosa:


Brother don't waste your precious time with blueagent, in many topics we have tried our best to teach using scriptures and real life situations but it all fell on deaf ears. if only he humbles himself and at least pray for direction and read those passages with an open mind and the Holy Spirit. This topic would not be here.

Proverbs 14:12 says, “There is a way which seemeth right
unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.”
Our minds can be deceived and so can the minds of
bishops and popes. Only the Bible is totally trustworthy.
When religious traditions conflict with the plain meaning
of Scripture then we need to discard those traditions. We
cannot afford to do otherwise, because our eternal destiny
is at stake.

blueAgent:


CO-MEDIATOR - Mary is the Co-Mediator to whom we can
entrust all our cares and petitions. (Catechism 968-970, 2677)
There is only one mediator and that is Jesus. 1 Timothy
2:5-6 says, “For there is one God, and one mediator
between God and men, the man Christ Jesus: Who gave
himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
Hebrews 7:25 says,Wherefore he [Jesus] is able to save
them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing
he ever liveth to make intercession for them.” Ephesians
3:12 says, “In whom [Jesus} we have boldness and
access with confidence by the faith of him.”
If Jesus is constantly interceding for us and He is able to save
us “to the uttermost,” (utterly, completely) then He doesn’t
need Mary’s help. If we can approach God with “boldness”
and “confidence” because of our faith in Jesus, then we don't
need Mary’s help either.

I need her help. Deal with it!

blueAgent:


You are a big fool.

laugh, poor copy cat pussy cat

blueAgent:


CO-MEDIATOR - Mary is the Co-Mediator to whom we can
entrust all our cares and petitions. (Catechism 968-970, 2677)
There is only one mediator and that is Jesus. 1 Timothy
2:5-6 says, “For there is one God, and one mediator
between God and men, the man Christ Jesus: Who gave
himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.”
Hebrews 7:25 says,Wherefore he [Jesus] is able to save
them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing
he ever liveth to make intercession for them.” Ephesians
3:12 says, “In whom [Jesus} we have boldness and
access with confidence by the faith of him.”
If Jesus is constantly interceding for us and He is able to save
us “to the uttermost,” (utterly, completely) then He doesn’t
need Mary’s help. If we can approach God with “boldness”
and “confidence” because of our faith in Jesus, then we don't
need Mary’s help either.

The book of James says this:

“The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.” – James 5:16

Now, who is more righteous than those perfected in heaven? Thus, we ask the Saints to pray for us, because the Bible tells us they have powerful prayers. The next question is then – “can they hear us?” The answer is yes. Jesus says:

“And concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God, `I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” -Matthew 22:31-32

Since we are all made members of Christ’s mystical body, we are all connected to one another and even death cannot separate us from Christ. Christ could have told us that praying for one another didn’t matter, but he did the opposite. He told us (as did Paul and many others in Scripture) to pray for one another, because God acts through his Church on earth, and in heaven, to give us grace through the prayers of others.

What I believe is the most amazing evidence from the Bible of the Saints in heaven hearing our prayers is from the book of Revelation.

“When he took it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each of the elders held a harp and gold bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the holy ones.” -Revelations 5:8

–We see that the elders and four living creatures (who represent the Saints and Angels in heaven) are offering the prayers of those on earth before Jesus. I don’t think it could get much clearer. In Revelation 8 there is another incident of heavenly intercession.

“Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne. The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel. Then the angel took the censer, filled it with burning coals from the altar, and hurled it down to the earth. There were peals of thunder, rumblings, flashes of lightning, and an earthquake.” -Revelations 8:3-5
Based on the overwhelming evidence from Scripture, the constant Tradition of the Church as well as the fact that it is theologically acceptable, we can be assured that the Saints in heaven can hear our prayers and are praying for us.

This is why we pray to Saints.

Remember that prayer to Saints is not the same idea as prayer to God. There is no worship or adoration of the Saints. Rather, just like we would ask someone on earth to pray for us, we do the same with our heavenly friends.

In John 2, at the Wedding in Cana, we see Mary ask Jesus to help after the hosts run out of wine. He performs His first miracle at her behest, even though he tells her it “is not my time.” This is remarkable, because Jesus still does what his mother asks, even though it wasn’t time to reveal his divine powers. This shows us the powerful intercession she has with Jesus.

To ask her to pray for us is therefore biblical, logical, and good.

Mary pray for us!