Agboriotejoye:

Lemme ask you something. As a muslim, are you expected to pay tax?

tax evasion is a criminal offence in Nigeria.

RisenPhoenix:


Commercial banks pay money to CBN? Money for what? Where did you hear that?

MONEY DEPOSIT WITH CBN

osuofia2:

MONEY DEPOSIT WITH CBN

Is that what you call payment? Let us take it one step at a time; how do muslims benefit from money deposited with CBN by commercial banks?

RisenPhoenix:


Yes. That is the justification. In fact, the cost of borrowing is almost all due to interest. Interest is used for money creation by the banks. This is vital for the perpetuation of fiat currencies used in all world economies. But in the end, it has cause much more harm than good because it is fundamentally exploitative.

I don't know what you mean by money creation. But the idea that it is fundamentally exploitative is an opinion and does not mean interest on loans is based on an intent to exploit the borrower.
Even the Bible is against collecting interest on loans. But you have to realize that Banking like other fields of expertise is not a religious creation. It is based on logical initiatives.
Most religious pronouncements on interest on loans talk about person to person loans not corporate loans as we have in banks.
That said, inflation can only be accounted for by interest. That's how it is.

Ykc2:
answer my questions how can organisation rent whole building furnish employ workers without profit?, so how are they making money to pay their workers and their offices ?or you want to tell that if lagos government go to Islamic banking to borrow 200 million dollars after 2 years or more they will still pay the same 200 million dollars without intrest?

They do partnership and Profit/loss sharing!

Google Musharakah and Mudarabah!

rowrowland:
tax evasion is a criminal offence in Nigeria.

Forget Nigeria. I'm asking you if you are expected to pay tax as a muslim.

Ykc2:
at end of the day they are there to make profit

I don't think that they prohibit profit. What I learned in school, and from the op; is that interest, gambling, speculation and high uncertainty is what is prohibited. Of course a muslim would know better. I could be wrong.

Rashduct4luv:


They do partnership and Profit/loss sharing!

Google Musharakah and Mudarabah!

Profit sharing in that regard can be seen as another form of interest on the loan. I hope you can agree with that.

May almighty Allah be please with you. Very good point

Slickest:
This is very interesting, may ALLAH grand us wisdom.
Few questions, how many non interest banks do you know in Nigeria?
There is an opening for a driving job at a bank and a father of 3 has to cater for his family?
We live in a country where most of the policy makers are Muslims but this seems directed to that citizen who is only striving to pay his bills

We live in a country where you try to live right but the Society won't let you.
Please when you talk about a topic you should be more in-depth about it not just stroll through the surface, there are always exceptions

May Allah make it easy for us and forgive our sins

Agboriotejoye:

Profit sharing in that regard can be seen as another form of interest on the loan. I hope you can agree with that.

No!
Profit has a separate meaning from interest. Islam permits trading which brings profit/loss.
Islam on the other hand forbids interest.

Mikecold:
When you get to that slaughter house you call mosque, you terrorists can masturbate on your uncircumsised opinions as a jihad cult.

But this is a public forum where everyone has a right to air their views again thanks to the same "westernazation" that creates this platform

Thanks...


Your church is an holy place for Christians.

I would rather attack your personality than your religion.

So get the f∆ck off my mention you this intolerant dimwit

Agboriotejoye:

I don't know what you mean by money creation. But the idea that it is fundamentally exploitative is an opinion and does not mean interest on loans is based on an intent to exploit the borrower.
Even the Bible is against collecting interest on loans. But you have to realize that Banking like other fields of expertise is not a religious creation. It is based on logical initiatives.
Most religious pronouncements on interest on loans talk about person to person loans not corporate loans as we have in banks.
That said, inflation can only be accounted for by interest. That's how it is.

You are speaking on an issue that is outside your field of knowledge, and basing your views on mere guesswork. Go and find out first about money creation and come back and tell me about exploitation. For beginners who have no idea of finance, there are videos on youtube by men like Mike Maloney (not sure of the spelling). I think he made a series to explain the principle to the layman.

.

Mikecold:
When you get to that slaughter house you call mosque, you terrorists can masturbate on your uncircumsised opinions as a jihad cult.

But this is a public forum where everyone has a right to air their views again thanks to the same "westernazation" that creates this platform

Just imagine the nonsense you posted...

Does this really make sense to you...

Grace001:
As much as it’s important to be tolerant to each other its important to remind you Muslim guys that country like Nigeria is a secular state where you can’t practice your Islam 100% except you guys want to form a caliphate just like your Muslim brothers are doing up north. It’s only countries like Saudi, Qatar, Kuwait, Dubai etc you can practice Islam 100% to the fullness. Where everything is being done according to Islam faith, Islamic banking system,women don’t board the same car with men, Women don’t use the same hospital with men “i.e a male doctor don’t attend to a female patient” etc with these settings you have the privilege to practice Islam fully without going into sin as you claim

Nigeria being a secular state don’t have an Islamic arrangement. Transportation system allow both male and female to board the same car, male doctor attend to female patient Non Islamic banking is everywhere in the country. So these makes it difficult to practice Islam 100% because at a point you’d have no choice than to board a cab with a male, to work in a non Islamic banking sector except you want to remain jobless if such offer comes.

So please our Muslim brothers and sisters always remember and have it a the back of your mind. Nigeria is not Saudi or Kuwait Oman Qatar or Dubai so don’t pressure the government with unnecessary protest to do certain things for you guys in Islamic arrangement . Because that MURIC organization sometimes forget Nigeria is not Saudi.

Same goes to our Christian brothers and sisters. Nigeria is not Jerusalem, Bethlehem or territory of the Israelite tribe. So enough of this nuisance all in the name of planting churches in every corner of the street.

Thank you for that, I don't know why we put religion ahead of other things, a religion that is just being practice here in Nigeria, Nigeria is not mother born of this two religion but we want to practice it more than those that owns it, Nigeria have the most religion houses than Saudi or Israel

Dtoolz:


Let us stop spreading informations that are not true as a result of our misinterpretation of what the holy book says.

Thank you! A reasonable submission instead of all these outdated rulings they keep posting here without any context

Am a Muslim, but all i see all over this post is Hypocrisy... It's okay to deposit my money in those banks but it is bad for me to work in them..

This is Nigeria and not Saudi, Kuwait or Iran. How many non-interest banks do we have.. All of you have your money deposited in all these banks, you don't see it as Haram, but you see working there as Haram. Fear Allah before you start pushing posts like this to the general public. This is so so misleading. If you want to talk about issues like this, be ready to spell out all the clauses included in them.

May Allah guide us right. Salaam Aleikun!

Lukgaf:
Alhamdulillaah wasalaatu wasalaam ‘ala rasuulillaah

It is not allowed because it helping one another in sin and transgression. Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: It is not permissible to work in a riba-based institution even if a person is working as a driver or guard, because that means that he is working for the riba-based institution, which implies that he approves of it. For whoever disapproves of a thing would not work to support it, so if he is working for it that implies that he approves of it, and the one who approves of something that is haraam is also guilty of sin. But if he is directly involved in recording transactions, writing, sending and depositing etc, then he is undoubtedly dealing directly with something haraam. It was proven in the hadeeth of Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed the one who consumes riba, the one who pays it, the two who witness it and the one who writes it down. He said: “They are all the same.” Fataawa Islamiyyah. 2/401

The Standing Committee was asked about a man who worked as a night guard for one of the banks, and he had nothing to do with the bank’s transactions – should he continue with this job or leave?

They replied: It is not permissible for a Muslim to work as a guard for banks that deal with riba, because this is a kind of cooperating in sin and transgression, and Allaah has forbidden that as He says (interpretation of the meaning): “but do not help one another in sin and transgression” [al-Maa'idah 5:2] Most of the banks deal with riba, so you have to look for a halaal means of earning a living, not this way. And Allaah is the Source of strength. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions. Fataawa Islamiyyah, 2/401, 402

May Allah grant us understanding of His religion

Source: Fish class foundations

Agboriotejoye:

Religious itself is based on philosophy. It's an obvious truth that religion came forth from philosophy which is, the science of reasoning. Without reasoning, there can be no question. Without question, there can be no answer. Religion is the answer to man's questions about the relationship between himself and God.

I dont really understand your comment, sorry.

What does it have to do with what I wrote?

rowrowland:

Our interest free bank may be empty for now, it won't be forever. A lot of people aren't drawn in yet but it'll get better. Having an interest free account is a religious obligation (except when unavailable)

Anyhow you like it is okay, but what I have observed with my eyes is that most Muslims don't bother with Islamic banks and will rush the so-called "Haram" institutions

The answer is simple my brother. Islamic banking is a transparent system that is based on sharing profit and loss

Ykc2:
answer my questions how can organisation rent whole building furnish employ workers without profit?, so how are they making money to pay their workers and their offices ?or you want to tell that if lagos government go to Islamic banking to borrow 200 million dollars after 2 years or more they will still pay the same 200 million dollars without intrest?

RisenPhoenix:


How far down the line do muslim jurists go when forbidding interest? For example, I guess that other direct interest based institutions like discount houses, mutual fund managers, , cooperative societies etc are all forbidden to muslims as well, since they all involve interest based transactions; but we can still go on further to institutions that not directly involved with interest, but deal with them
; eg external auditors of banks, stockbrokers who buy and sell bank shares, insurance companies, pension fund administrators, investment banks. Is it forbidden for muslims to work there as well?

Muslims may be forbidden to use-as a customer- or control an interest based institution in a state which has its Constitution sourced from the provision of Shariah.

But with reference with a state like Nigeria which her existence is being governed by devoid-of-Islam colonial law, it's not an obligation to shun, or refuse to work with some interest based organisation like bank but not the likes of LAPO etc.

The rationale behind this is that Islam give room to consider or break some rules in kind of extenuating circumstance and in absence of what is rightful, hardly can one see a non-interest oriented bank in Nigeria and considering the state of the economy it is not advisable and Islamic for a Nigerian to reject job offer in a bank, but the opportunity is terminated and become illegitimate upon getting a best alternative.
For instance, eating of porn is permissible with conditions but the permission ends upon sighting a beef.
but if one is such a devout Muslim to interpret and live by the attribute of Allah-The Provider he can reject the offer and Almighty Allah will surely provide.

Talking of co-operative societies, we have much of it (Islamic Cooperative Societies), where you can borrow without interest, even Christians seek admittance and they were offered, and that is indicative of Islam tolerance. had it been in Christianity, the reverse would be the case, unless you want to trade your Islam with the intended money.

osuofia2:
MONEY DEPOSIT WITH CBN

that is cash reserve or liquidity ratio

That is their problem fa. You can not force people to follow the religion. You only can advise and remind them to do what the religion teaches.

midnighter:


Anyhow you like it is okay, but what I have observed with my eyes is that most Muslims don't bother with Islamic banks and will rush the so-called "Haram" institutions

Agboriotejoye:

I don't know what you mean by money creation. But the idea that it is fundamentally exploitative is an opinion and does not mean interest on loans is based on an intent to exploit the borrower.
Even the Bible is against collecting interest on loans. But you have to realize that Banking like other fields of expertise is not a religious creation. It is based on logical initiatives.
Most religious pronouncements on interest on loans talk about person to person loans not corporate loans as we have in banks.
That said, inflation can only be accounted for by interest. That's how it is.

pardon me for the intrusion.


Interest might not meant to exploit the borrower but unfortunately it does and that is the difference Islamic Banking System is trying to make and menace it strives to deplore.

As you also wrote up there that Bible discourages taking interest but not implemented and individualistic (why is that Christians' God command is for individual transaction instead of encompassing all Christian), Islam ensures it is not only on paper but implemented and enveloped all Muslims.
you are supposed to know what is right and more beneficial now.

Hussein01:


Muslims may be forbidden to use-as a customer- or control an interest based institution in a state which has its Constitution sourced from the provision of Shariah.

But with reference with a state like Nigeria which her existence is being governed by devoid-of-Islam colonial law, it's not an obligation to shun, or refuse to work with some interest based organisation like bank but not the likes of LAPO etc.

The rationale behind this is that[b] Islam give room to consider or break some rules in kind of extenuating circumstance and in absence of what is rightful[/b], hardly can one see a non-interest oriented bank in Nigeria and considering the state of the economy[b] it is not advisable and Islamic for a Nigerian to reject job offer in a bank[/b], but the opportunity is terminated and become illegitimate upon getting a best alternative.
For instance, eating of porn is permissible with conditions but the permission ends upon sighting a beef.
but if one is such a devout Muslim to interpret and live by the attribute of Allah-The Provider he can reject the offer and Almighty Allah will surely provide.

Talking of co-operative societies, we have much of it (Islamic Cooperative Societies), where you can borrow without interest, even Christians seek admittance and they were offered, and that is indicative of Islam tolerance. had it been in Christianity, the reverse would be the case, unless you want to trade your Islam with the intended money.

Thank you.

@bolded. I do not understand this. What are the fundamental conditions for these extenuating circumstances? For example, you said that if one cannot get work at an Islamic bank, then one can work in a conventional bank. But wouldn't that imply that the only option that a muslim has to work is in a bank? My point is; he does not have to work in any bank at all if he cannot get an Islamic bank, or where is my guess going wrong? Also, refusing to work at an interest based bank becomes unislamic? Confusing.

@second bolded. What do you mean by sighted? If a muslim goes to a buka where only pork is sold, he can eat it just because the next buka is across the street out of sight? What of if he uses a curtain to shut off his view or faces the wall, does it become ok? This is getting stranger. Looks like Islamic rules are useless and only there nominally if they are that simple to break.

Or are you getting something wrong? The op does not seem to follow your opinion.

Rashduct4luv:


No!
Profit has a separate meaning from interest. Islam permits trading which brings profit/loss.
Islam on the other hand forbids interest.

Profit sharing by the bank? Is the bank a shareholder in the business to share in the business' profit?

RisenPhoenix:


I would think that financial decisions or career choices are personal. I do not see why interest free banking is detrimental to secularism. Even the bastions of secularism like the UK and the EU are advancing fast in the field of Islamic banking. I can tell you frankly that the field of finance and economics are not based on perfect, inviolate theories. They are mostly based on the thoughts and ideas of people; and some of those theories are very highly flawed. For example, the principle of interest was only introduced and developed to such a high level for the purpose of money creation and exploitation. This is a widely known fact to economic historians. In my opinion, eliminating interest from the economic model would be a step in the right direction; and would probably have been proposed by leading thinkers much earlier had it not been so openly affiliated to Islam.

I couldn’t agree with you more, when it comes to banking system Islamic banking is one of the best. But I don’t base my comment on the Islamic banking system alone. Like I pointed out, practicing Islam to the fullness isn’t achievable in Nigeria that’s my point. There many instances we could talk about.

RisenPhoenix:


You are speaking on an issue that is outside your field of knowledge, and basing your views on mere guesswork. Go and find out first about money creation and come back and tell me about exploitation. For beginners who have no idea of finance, there are videos on youtube by men like Mike Maloney (not sure of the spelling). I think he made a series to explain the principle to the layman.

What do you mean outside my field of knowledge? Do you know me? You brought up a false theory on interest and I educated you and you're accusing me of not being in my field of knowledge?

midnighter:


I dont really understand your comment, sorry.

What does it have to do with what I wrote?

What i'm trying to say is that religion itself is a product of philosophy

Grace001:



I couldn’t agree with you more, when it comes to banking system Islamic banking is one of the best. But I don’t base my comment on the Islamic banking system alone. Like I pointed out, practicing Islam to the fullness isn’t achievable in Nigeria that’s my point. There many instances we could talk about.

@bolded. Lol That remains to be seen, thouhh I can understand why a muslim would say so. Proving it is a different issue entirely.

Why do you think that practising Islam is not achievable in Nigeria? So as a muslim you don't practise Islam? Or do you mean that one can just nitpick whatever laws he wishes and look for justification for leaving the rest?

Funny enough, I have always thought that the beauty of Islam lay in the aspect of its disciplined regulations. Now you are telling me that these are all a pretence and not meant to be followed; just as in Christianity?

Agboriotejoye:

What do you mean outside my field of knowledge? Do you know me? You brought up a false theory on interest and I educated you and you're accusing me of not being in my field of knowledge?

From the way you speak, it is obvious. The principle of money creation is one of the most fundamental topics in economics at tertiary level. Impossible that anyone with exposure to finance, economics or banking theories would not know what it is or how it works. Interest is also at the basis of money creation; practically the first formula you learn in any semi advanced banking class would be how much money can be created from deposits. So if interest is not used in exploitative practises, I would like a re definition of 'exploitative'.

Hussein01:


pardon me for the intrusion.


Interest might not meant to exploit the borrower but unfortunately it does and that is the difference Islamic Banking System is trying to make and menace it strives to deplore.

As you also wrote up there that Bible discourages taking interest but not implemented and individualistic (why is that Christians' God command is for individual transaction instead of encompassing all Christian), Islam ensures it is not only on paper but implemented and enveloped all Muslims.
you are supposed to know what is right and more beneficial now.

Like your brothers said, the Islamic banks share in your profit. How does that differ from interest bearing in mind they are not shareholders.
As for your second question, that is the basis why islam has become a prime religion of conflict out of the thousands of religions in the world.
Religion is supposed to be a personal thing, a yardstick of your relationship with God based on your personal convictions and belief. Of course, if an homogeneous set of people come together and agree to be ruled by a religion, all the better.
But the moment you allow religion to become a yardstick in your relationship with fellow humans and even your environment, especially those who may not subscribe to your beliefs, conflicts will arise.
That is why you see that Christianity focuses more on your personal relationship with God instead of governmental ideals which islam inadvertently delves into. That is why you see so much conflict being bred by islamists