I read engineering, I dont deal with speculation. I deal with fact, show me the fact.

Musiwa,:

Ochi_Agha  
Where did you get that. Show us satellite pictures. The issue is the United nation envoy may have be tricked. this is africa and anything can happen.  so show me satellite pictures.

I should clarify and say that the Muslim population is higher than the Christian population. But that is due to immigration from other Muslim countries such as Mali and Burkina Faso. That Southern Christians have a problem with people who are not native to Cote D'ivoire.

Musiwa,:

I read engineering, I dont deal with speculation. I deal with fact, show me the fact.

Do you have satelite pictures to prove the south is more populous engineer?

I think we need to come together as Africans and repartition the land to people who can live peacefully with each other but the taste for natural resources will never allow that.

Ochi_Agha:

I should clarify and say that the Muslim population is higher than the Christian population. But that is due to immigration from other Muslim countries such as Mali and Burkina Faso. That Southern Christians have a problem with people who are not native to Cote D'ivoire.

True. I saw a documentary saying that the indigenous Ivorians are less than 50% of the population. It is mainly made up of Nigerians, ghanians, chadians, etc

Pharoh:

I think we need to come together as Africans and repartition the land to people who can live peacefully with each other but the taste for natural resources will never allow that.

What good will repartitioning do this particular election? Does this really have anything with the current ethnic structure of the country? We are speaking here of an election that has already been conducted and the winner already known, only that the sitting president refuses to step down and some are looking for meaningless ways to pin it, and the decisions currently being taken by the African Union, on the WHITEMAN.

Ivory coast is a democracy, and the will of the people, no matter how irrational, should be respected.

Ochi_Agha , I am an engineer, I look at satellite picture. I still have my doubt on the issue because i look at the science fact. Satellite pictures.  I dont have time to show you the pictures.

But the fact still remain. the united nation officer could have been con or trick. there is alot of fraud in africa over election. and look Youssouf Bakoyoko the ivory coast election chairman has a score to settle with gbogbo. Mr gbogbo bomb his home town. And if anybody bomb my home town. Rule or no rule. many people would not allow gbogbo to win.  do you blame him.

I still believe gbogbo has used 10 years in office and even if he won, if we have to have peace. everybody should give peace a chance.

I think we should all look at the fact. I dont know who won. I dont know the case in the south. but what I would say. 10 years is long time to be president for gbogbo. And force should not be the solution. But kindly talking to gbogbo.

Jonathan has not handle this case very well from he start. He should have personally gone to ivory coast and see gbogbo and Alassane Ouattara. and this would have not got to this stage.

the president of Nigeria should not only be president but a peace maker in africa.

I believe Jonathan should watch his statement and personally go and see Gbogbo and Alassane Ouattara. If possible bring both men to Nigeria to discuss the issue away from ivory coast.

Well I have tried to raise this thread for a long time, hmm I see Kobo is here again. I refuse to be drawn into the speculation that the west is being used to fight Gbagbo, of  course the west would have interest in that country but I doubt if it would be to destabilize her. Like Ochi has pointed out this borders on the sovereignty of the country to do its elections and choose a leader for itself, but facts right now are that gbagbo lost or at least thats how they painted it. I think he should have stepped down and seek redress in the courts, the manner in which he did it I feel is what is biting him in the ass. It would have been a lot better if he had even rigged the whole election and won, that way the west would only complain that the election was not free and fair, countries like Nigeria would not have the moral standing to say hey leave the position of president. The gymnastics which he had to take to hold on to power is what stinks here. But is that enough to interfere in the countries democracy?

I think the west african bloc has a right to step into the issue if it would bring peace, the reason is simple, if a civil war breaks out in the country as it has in the past we would be the ones to deal with the refugee influx, a lot about international politics is more than just mere speculation. Although I kind of agree that Nigeria has been used to push gbagbo out of power it might just be for the interest of all of us, I mean if we did not step into the situation in liberia where would the country be now? Its a bit dicey but I would lean towards gbagbo conceding power and seeking redress in the courts, if he has done well over the years then his judiciary should return him to power, else he should swallow the bitter pill and come back for reelection like outtara did.

Kobojunkie said:

Did it ever occur to you that the African Union may wittingly or otherwise, be playing a proxy role in this instance for western interests, since many of its presidents are themselves, fronts for those interests?

Thought not.

Like Ocha Agha said, you have an awful lot to learn about how the world operates.

If there is anything I have learnt of you, and the many others who think as you do, is that you MANUFACTURE 99% of your theories in such a way as to have them FIT SNUGGLY IN with whatever idea you peddling in the particular minute you offer it up. Again, learn to READ and the approach what you read with your mind OPEN -- I know it is hard but you need to do it at some point.

How can AU suddenly be playing a proxy role when the same AU has been known to make so take un-western moves in the same in years past? This is the same AU that allowed Sudan, Zimbabwe, Kenya etc but NO, it all should not count because suddenly the AU seems to take a stand that the west also happens to take on this particular issue?

What stand exactly did the AU hold in those instances? None that was really opposed to western interests. Mugabe is too renowned and respected in Africa due to his role in the Rhodesian war, for the AU to do anything about him. The Sudanese north has gotten away with murder after the AU's weak ''peacekeeping force'' did nothing to end the slaughter of Africans. Kenya was under no great western pressure for Kibaki to 'relinquish power immediately', after their elections, as they are pressuring Gbagbo under the threat of military action led by their local proxy enforcers, Nigeria.

The AU has done nothing to get Mubarak to step down, since Mubarak is a ''western ally''. So please spare us the claptrap. The AU, composed as it is of mostly western stooges, IS an arm of the international banking cartels presiding over our affairs from Washington, London, and Paris.

This inferiority complex many have in Africa needs to be dealt with.  AU made a decision here and if anyone does not like it, deal with AU. Not again run to inject the WHITEMAN out of some psycho obsession we are unwilling to deal with.[/b]

You are the one suffering from a terrible, tragic inferiority complex. You seem to have set yourself up here as a bodyguard for western IMPERIALISM and INTERFERENCE in African affairs.

Do you think it is just ok for France and the US to dictate who should be president of Ivory Coast?

Is Ivory Coast not an independent country?

Which African country had a say when Bush was being rigged into power?

Was Sarkozy himself not rigged into power?

Who remembers the hundreds of violent demonstrations that followed his rise to power in France, based on allegations of widespread rigging?

Which African country put its nose in that one, or did we not mind our business?

Are you aware of the role France has played in Ivory Coast, and continues to play? Do you know how many Ivoriens have been killed by French troops in the history of that country till date? Do you bother to ascertain WHY they are so insistent on Outarra, even though he clearly rigged the election? Do you care that the election was rigged in the north, with nearly a million results known to be falsified? 

Civil wars in africa will never stop until interference of West is blocked and unaccepted and also those ehtnic african groups which have things in common and respect for each other form there own nation. For the time being I don't the that a presidential structured government is feasible for most african countries.A parliamentary country would be most commendable.If that were the case for Ivory Coast none of this nonsense would be going on.

I was wondering why the US was asking ECOWAS to intervene in Ivory Coast matters because of the breakdown of law;however, earlier they were saying that nigeria should sign an agreement with them so that the US can help nigeria provided security to the nigeria people against possible breaks out of rebellion and terrorism such as North/South, Boko Haram, MEND,etc. Why then are they offering nigeria help when ECOWAS is there? Why must ECOWAS be disregarded when it comes to the security of nigerians? Obviously there a play of Western interest going on here.

Kobojunkie:

What good will repartitioning do this particular election? Does this really have anything with the current ethnic structure of the country? We are speaking here of an election that has already been conducted and the winner already known, only that the sitting president refuses to step down and some are looking for meaningless ways to pin it, and the decisions currently being taken by the African Union, on the WHITEMAN.

Ivory coast is a democracy, and the will of the people, no matter how irrational, should be respected.

But the people have refused to speak up, frankly that is where the problem lies, this has all the markings of an oppressed people, now 14000 refugees have reached liberia soon they would be pouring into Nigeria too, let both sides make concessions for peace to reign. Even if gbagbo is forced out of power it would still be difficult for outtara to bring peace to the nation.

ROSSIKE:

Kobojunkie said:


What stand exactly did the AU hold in those instances? None that was really opposed to western interests. Mugabe is too renowned and respected in Africa due to his role in the Rhodesian war, for the AU to do anything about him. The Sudanese north has gotten away with murder after the AU's weak ''peacekeeping force'' did nothing to end the slaughter of Africans. Kenya was under no great western pressure after their elections for Kibaki to 'relinquish power immediately', as they are threatening Gbagbo under the threat of military action led by their local proxy enforcers, Nigeria. The AU has done nothing to get Mubarak to step down, since Mubarak is a ''western ally''. So please spare us the claptrap. The AU, composed as it is of mostly western stooges, IS  an arm of the international banking cartels presiding over our affairs from Washington, London, and Paris.

You are the one suffering from a terrible, tragic inferiority complex. You seem to have set yourself up here as a bodyguard for western IMPERIALISM and INTERFERENCE in African affairs.

Do you think it is just ok for France and the US to dictate who should be president of Ivory Coast?

Is Ivory Coast not an independent country?

Which African country had a say when Bush was being rigged into power?

Are you aware of the role France has played in Ivory Coast, and continues to play? Do you know how many Ivoriens have been killed by French troops in the history of that country till date? Do you bother to ascertain WHY they are so insistent on Outarra, even though he clearly rigged the election? Do you care that the election was rigged in the north, with nearly a million results known to be falsified? 

Sir,
We all know that the west has interest and wield power in countries like Ivory coast but go back to history this same gbagbo has benefited from such interference which brought him to power. It is very bad politics to take the position you have now, let us assume that we are interantional envoys sent to broker the peace what would you say to outarra and gbagbo? How would you end the crisis? Spinning conspiracy theories only make you seem paranoid, people need hard facts and where are the facts supporting the election being rigged?

Chrisbenogor:

But the people have refused to speak up, frankly that is where the problem lies, this has all the markings of an oppressed people, now 14000 refugees have reached liberia soon they would be pouring into Nigeria too, let both sides make concessions for peace to reign. Even if gbagbo is forced out of power it would still be difficult for outtara to bring peace to the nation.

I don't believe it is necessarily the case here that the people have outright refused to speak. I mean we have heard of the killings, that leads me to believe that some have spoken up against the problem, only that the President, using the military, has been able to put them down. Now, I also do not believe that all those in the south are in support of Gbagbo, as that does not seem to be the case, from information that has come out of Ivory coast from various sources. Now for those afraid of the west, the sources are not simply western sources. Even Ghana, next door neighbor has joined to call for Ivory Coast president to respect rule of law. Why some insist this has to be RELIGIOUS is beyond me.

About concessions for peace, we already know it is NOT THE SOLUTION, we have seen how that went in places like Kenya, and Zimbabwe, and I don't think Ivory Coast should go the same route or attempt it. In a way I believe this is part reason why the AU is no longer sitting back to allow the nonsense continue. Only, since the AU is involved, I am not certain, if they will make the right decision.

For those calling for Ivory coast to be divided, I do have to ask if that call ought not to come instead from within, and not from without? Why should the UN go in to demand Ivory coast be divided into two when the people don't seem to be championing that move on the majority? Why should the west be to make that decision?

Chrisbenegor said:

Sir,
We all know that the west has interest and wield power in countries like Ivory coast but go back to history this same gbagbo has benefited from such interference which brought him to power. It is very bad politics to take the position you have now, let us assume that we are interantional envoys sent to broker the peace what would you say to outarra and gbagbo? How would you end the crisis? Spinning conspiracy theories only make you seem paranoid, people need hard facts and where are the facts supporting the election being rigged?

The only hard facts you need, as a non-Ivorien, are that the Constitutional Council of Ivory Coast, which is constitutionally bound to decide on the veracity of election results declared by the electoral commission, did its job, and found that thousands of votes were rigged and falsified in the north, and hence annulled the results.

That's really all you need to know. The details do NOT particularly concern you, nor the AU, Ecowas, and least of all France and the USA, who recently also had heavily rigged elections and are therefore in no position to lecture anybody on the conduct of same.

So, the election was Annulled, yet the sitting president had himself SWORN in as winner of the same election, and you don't see that something is wrong with the picture?

Not annulled per se, but the rigged results were discarded, meaning that Gbagbo won the election.

No matter what !

Nigeria SHOULD NOT send troops to IVORY COAST !

ROSSIKE:

Not annulled per se, but the rigged results were discarded.

You really believe that crock of bull you tried to shove at us there??  It is possible to annul only a part of the rigged results and then move on to fairly DECLARE oneself winner of an election? How come no one has information on the particular way this RIGGED votes were identified for elimination? WOW!! I can't believe I am even attempting to reason with you on this so as to maybe get you to see how ridiculous that manufactured fact of yours is, even by Ivorian standards

Kobojunkie:

I don't believe it is necessarily the case here that the people have outright refused to speak. I mean we have heard of the killings, that leads me to believe that some have spoken up against the problem, only that the President, using the military, has been able to put them down. Now, I also do not believe that all those in the south are in support of Gbagbo, as that does not seem to be the case, from information that has come out of Ivory coast from various sources. Now for those afraid of the west, the sources are not simply western sources. Even Ghana, next door neighbor has joined to call for Ivory Coast president to respect rule of law. Why some insist this has to be RELIGIOUS is beyond me.

About concessions for peace, we already know it is NOT THE SOLUTION, we have seen how that went in places like Kenya, and Zimbabwe, and I don't think Ivory Coast should go the same route or attempt it. In a way I believe this is part reason why the AU is no longer sitting back to allow the nonsense continue. Only, since the AU is involved, I am not certain, if they will make the right decision.

For those calling for Ivory coast to be divided, I do have to ask if that call ought not to come instead from within, and not from without? Why should the UN go in to demand Ivory coast be divided into two when the people don't seem to be championing that move on the majority? Why should the west be to make that decision?

I totally disagree with you about concessions not being a solution, Zim has had relative peace and even fought their inflation down to 4%, it is totally naive to think accelerating outarra to power would not have any backlash whatsoever, gbagbo has supporters, plenty of them at that and for all we know may be ready to do away with outarra just like they did to the former president before gbagbo took over the reigns. I am not even advocating power sharing yet I am just saying you never negotiate peacefully with a cornered man you need to give space for him to maneuver.

ROSSIKE:

Chrisbenegor said:

The only hard facts you need, as a non-Ivorien, are that the Constitutional Council of Ivory Coast, which is constitutionally bound to decide on the veracity of election results declared by the electoral commission, did its job, and found that thousands of votes were rigged and falsified in the north, and hence annulled the vote.

That's really all you need to know. The details do NOT particularly concern you, nor the AU, Ecowas, and least of all France and the USA, who recently also had heavily rigged elections and are therefore in no position to lecture anybody on the conduct of same.

What you have said above is quite true, but why annull? Why not even a re-run? I am just saying that something in the process smacks of gbagbo using his powers to force the Constitutional Council to annull the results. There were no cries of rigging during the by election, why shout foul when the results have been announced? Like I said earlier I do not totally blame gbagbo but he did not do his homework well and is reaping the results. THIS IS OF NO BUSINESS TO THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY this country should not be told how to run its affairs, but hey he already made several blunders and he is facing the music. Its a really tough call, really really tough call.

Chrisbenogor:

I totally disagree with you about concessions not being a solution, Zim has had relative peace and even fought their inflation down to 4%, it is totally naive to think accelerating outarra to power would not have any backlash whatsoever, gbagbo has supporters, plenty of them at that and for all we know may be ready to do away with outarra just like they did to the former president before gbagbo took over the reigns. I am not even advocating power sharing yet I am just saying you never negotiate peacefully with a cornered man you need to give space for him to maneuver.

Relative peace for? the people or the powers? Just this month, Mugage announced it will no longer continue with power sharing under the concession -- essentially, the people are being forced, yet again, to abide by the will of one. We can do concession for solution across all of Africa but at what point do the African people get a say? I don't think concession has ever really been the will of the people, so at what point will Africa really get a say in it's future?

Kobojunkie said:

You really believe that crock of bull you tried to shove at us there??   It is possible to annul only a part of the rigged results and then move on to fairly DECLARE oneself winner of an election? WOW!!

Results of rigged votes have always been cancelled, which CAN have the effects on who is declared winner. Gbagbo did not ''declare himself winner'' the way the western media have deceived you into thinking. He was declared winner by the Ivory Coast Constitutional Council as mandated them by the Ivory Coast Constitution.  

It was Ouatarra who declared himself winner in contravention of the laws of the land.

I don't expect you to respect the constitution of Ivory Coast.

Afterall are France and the USA not saying the constitution of Ivory Coast means nothing when set against their imperialist interests?

Are France and the USA not your masters who set the tone for what you should believe or not believe?

Have you bothered to know what exactly the Ivory Coast Constitution stipulates, or is your source of information not CNN, BBC and other imperialist disinformation outlets?

^^ Did Gbagbo get sworn in for another term, YES OR NO?

Do YOUR research.

According to you, he did not declare himself winner of the election, so it should be easy for you to answer the simple question. What is it? You are having a hard time cooking up another ramble for to explain this one?

Kobojunkie:

Relative peace for? the people or the powers? Just this month, Mugage announced it will no longer continue with power sharing under the concession -- essentially, the people are being forced, yet again, to abide by the will of one. We can do concession for solution across all of Africa but at what point do the African people get a say? I don't think concession has ever really been the will of the people, so at what point will Africa really get a say in it's future?

The people are the ones who have refused to stand up for themselves, mugabe does not rule with robots. He is crying that he does not want the pwer sharing because it has not been a free for all government laced with oppression like he was used to. The African people are cowards and would swing with whoever waves the most money in their face. If the people of Zim had a will then they would have forced out an almost 90 year old ruler. Yes concession is not the will of anyone, but it is the only way to move forward when there is a stalemate.

Its this imperialistic bumkum twist that we use as excuse everytime, Mugabe, Kibaki and now Gbagbo wants an excuse to plunge his country into chaos and now wants anyone to blame.

Oh shut up, ignoramus.

Kobojunkie said:

According to you, he did not declare himself winner of the election

Not ''according to me'', ACCORDING TO THE FACTS OF THE MATTER WHICH YOU DO NOT CARE TO KNOW.

so it should be easy for you to answer the simple question.

It should be easy for you to use your brain for once, go on Google, and LEARN about how the political system in Ivory Coast operates - something you are completely IGNORANT about, and care even LESS to know about since such knowledge is not in the interest of YOUR colonial masters, France and the USA.

Rossike, are you watching your BP, or the smell of what you have been shovelling?

Grow a brain dude.

Why don't you go and fight France's imperialist war, or is it innocent Nigerian soldiers you wish to send to lay their lives for the ex-colonial rulers' interests?

ROSSIKE , i see your point, Obama and USA, were put into a difficult position on the issue. The reason is, france had already rejected gbogbo result. So obama and the USA were confused who to support initially. That was why they kept mute.

I think if someone stays 10 years in power it is too long and you see, people may have been feed up after 10 years too with gbogbo. I dont know. I do not know the real situation on ground in the ivory coast. But what I would say is that.

It is time fr mugabe to step aside for younger generation to take over leadership.

If I was the one to solve this people, I would be very diplomatic and use the issue of where the  capital should be to solve the problem. It is the only exit plan, I can find.



Nigeria do not have money to send troope, And you already seen what had happen in Jos. It is a warning signal . I think the military is trying to tell Jonathan, they do not want to go.
And in history when you send them, they alway overthrown that govt.

Hehehehe, yours needs a repair real bad. We always like to blame others for our faults, this man has been in power for ten years, knows there are illegal alliens in his country, supposed to know how many voters to expect and set up a machinary to monitor the elections.he went to sleep till his rival is declared winner, now he found the usual culprits to blame, so he could sit tight for another ten years. Naaa.