freshboi88:


It's awful comparing Reuben with Jesus..Please dnt ever try that again.

Bros, why you dey deceive yourself and dodge the point.

Genesis 49:3
Reuben,you are my firstborn.. the beginning of my procreative strength"
("the beginning of creation " Rev3:14, is Reuben the Originator of the Father's procreation strength?)


Rev 3:14 Jesus. " the beginning of the creation of God"

Mark 13:19 " the beginning of the creation which God made..."
Col 1:15 , Jesus "the firstborn of every creature"

What is the point here?
Revelation 3:14 " the beginning of the creation of God
Or:
Mark 13:19 " the beginning of the creation which God made...'

Rev 3:14 and Mark 13:19, both expressions MEAN the same thing= the first creation by God.
(and Genesis 49:3) "the beginning of my procreative strength" gives SOLID PROOF that
Freshboi88 claim for Revelation 3:14 "the Source the Originator is FRAUD.

I ask you again, Bros:
Based on your claim for Rev 3:14 , In Gen 49:3, (Deut 21:17) Is Reuben the Source /Originator of the Father's procreation strength?
Reply is vital to this discussion.

Rozz:
In any arguments,each side always have something to prove.Unfounded claims?smh

Please who is speaking to you in Revelation 3:5,11,12 &21. John 14:28 and John 20:17?

Do you wholeheartedly believe what he says?

Maximus69:


Jesus is a perfect teacher even if i claim he's our leader you will start arguing, but can you just point to a portion of the Bible where the followers of Christ agree to learn anything from other groups claiming worshipers of the same God?
Yet Pharisees, Saddusees, Scribes, Priests and other Jewish religionists always go after the Christians to learn from them despite claiming they're worshipers of the same God.
Well perhaps you don't understand, we are the true Christians and based on what we know, there is no friendship between light and darkness, so there is nothing to learn from Christendom Churches!

But you can convince us by producing the fruit of God's holy spirit, if Jehovah's Witnesses observe the fine works in your midst, we will consider learning from you, apart from that we don't deal with groups of no practical benefits!

What do you know about the fruit of the spirit?
You think it's by head knowledge?

One thing i can assure you is that you like the pharisees have studied the bible, but instead of it to make you humble it made you proud, made you self-righteous. Made you full of hatred for everyone that's not a JW like you.

I can imagine how years of indoctrination has done this to you. It has truly blinded you. You're no different from an extremist muslim. I guess we should thank God JW recruited you before ISIS.

freshboi88:





Who says Jesus is not the Son of God. So I ask u if John 1:3 says nothing was created without Jesus.....Do u know the meaning of Nothing. If Jesus was created. It means Created Jesus needed a Jesus to be created..... Please respond to this

If you are a child of God and you are guided by God's Spirit, you would not be insultive u would make ur points in love is God is love

So respond to question and disprove this:

Who says Jesus is the Son of God. So I ask u if John 1:3 says nothing was created without Jesus.....Do u know the meaning of Nothing. If Jesus was created. It means Created Jesus needed a Jesus to be created..... Please respond to this

Bros, I don't mean to insult you.
I apologize if you find it that way.
Please,no vex.

I will respond to your questions here.
But let me know your views on this:
In John 1:1, "the Word was with TOV Theon (the God)"

Is "the Word" a person?
Please respond,then we move forward.

Shalom

Myer:


What do you know about the fruit of the spirit?
You think it's by head knowledge?

One thing i can assure you is that you like the pharisees have studied the bible, but instead of it to make you humble it made you proud, made you self-righteous. Made you full of hatred for everyone that's not a JW like you.

I can imagine how years of indoctrination has done this to you. It has truly blinded you. You're no different from an extremist muslim. I guess we should thank God JW recruited you before ISIS.

Well perhaps it's because i'm one of the dedicated followers of the guy from Nazareth who publicly denied his own mother and brothers simply because they're not ready to accept his line of thought! Matthew 12:46-49

When Jesus was here on earth, his ideas hurt many people who aren't obedient or those who hate orderliness!

I was a Muslim and a soldier but i knew there is God, but who are his true worshipers? During a bloody battle between two armies, my colleague and i took a telescope to see what's happening in the opposing camps, we saw soldiers praying before the faceoff, both side were praying.

From that very day i couldn't stop thinking about what i saw, if both sides are praying whose side will God be?

Only Jehovah's Witnesses answered that thought provoking question for me, they claim they are soldiers of Christ but they don't make use of weapons, so i continue studying the Bible with them, that's what made me one of Jehovah's Witnesses today!

Janosky:


Bros, I don't mean to insult you.
I apologize if you find it that way.
Please,no vex.

I will respond to your questions here.
But let me know your views on this:
In John 1:1, "the Word was with TOV Theon (the God)"

Is "the Word" a person?
Please respond,then we move forward.

Shalom

The Word is a Spirit Being not a person. The source, origin and beginning of God's creation

Janosky:


Bros, why you dey deceive yourself and dodge the point.

Genesis 49:3
Reuben,you are my firstborn.. the beginning of my procreative strength"
("the beginning of creation " Rev3:14, is Reuben the Originator of the Father's procreation strength?)


Rev 3:14 Jesus. " the beginning of the creation of God"

Mark 13:19 " the beginning of the creation which God made..."
Col 1:15 , Jesus "the firstborn of every creature"

What is the point here?
Revelation 3:14 " the beginning of the creation of God
Or:
Mark 13:19 " the beginning of the creation which God made...'

Rev 3:14 and Mark 13:19, both expressions MEAN the same thing= the first creation by God.
(and Genesis 49:3) "the beginning of my procreative strength" gives SOLID PROOF that
Freshboi88 claim for Revelation 3:14 "the Source the Originator is FRAUD.

I ask you again, Bros:
Based on your claim for Rev 3:14 , In Gen 49:3, (Deut 21:17) Is Reuben the Source /Originator of the Father's procreation strength?
Reply is vital to this discussion.

I said comparing Reuben to Jesus is an insult to God.....first Reuben is born of man and not of the Holy Spirit. Secondly Jesus gave Reuben life....cos nothing was created without him so there's no basis for comparison

Y are u dodging my question, if Nothing was made with out Jesus....doesn't it mean that Jesus cannot be created without Jesus.

I have told u that the beginning of God's creation which u hold onto like slice bread is not definitive, u r only giving it Ur own interpretation.

I have told u, that he been the beginning means that he is the source and the originator. And I provide proof in John 1:3

John 1:3 Nothing was made without him.

So does it mean that Jesus was created through Jesus?.....Ansa this question

freshboi88:



I said comparing Reuben to Jesus is an insult to God.....first Reuben is born of man and not of the Holy Spirit. Secondly Jesus gave Reuben life....cos nothing was created without him so there's no basis for comparison

Y are u dodging my question, if Nothing was made with out Jesus....doesn't it mean that Jesus cannot be created without Jesus.

I have told u that the beginning of God's creation which u hold onto like slice bread is not definitive, u r only giving it Ur own interpretation.

I have told u, that he been the beginning means that he is the source and the originator. And I provide proof in John 1:3

John 1:3 Nothing was made without him.

So does it mean that Jesus was created through Jesus?.....Ansa this question

Only begotten son simply means the only creature DIRECTLY created by God! John 3:16 Proverbs 8:22

And God himself said "I will raise for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you (Moses) and i will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that i command him" Deuteronomy 18:18-19 compare to Act 3:22-23

So God compared Moses to Jesus Sir!

Maximus69:


Only begotten son simply means the only creature DIRECTLY created by God! John 3:16 Proverbs 8:22

And God himself said "I will raise for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you (Moses) and i will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that i command him" Deuteronomy 18:18-19 compare to Act 3:22-23

So God compared Moses to Jesus Sir!

John 3:16 has no correlation with what you are saying. So does proverbs 8:22. You are given those verses Ur own interpretation.

Now


John 1:3 God created [b]everything[/b]through him, and [b]nothing[/b]was created except through him.

Scripture says God created everything through Jesus and Nothing was created except through him. Ask yourself what does everything mean? What bout Nothing?.....How come u are now saying there is one thing God created alone....are u not contradicting the everything stated in scripture?


So if Jesus was created, it means Jesus was created through Jesus

freshboi88:


John 3:16 has no correlation with what you are saying. So does proverbs 8:22. You are given those verses Ur own interpretation.

Now


John 1:3 God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him.

Scripture says God created everything through Jesus and Nothing was created except through him. Ask yourself what does everything mean? What bout Nothing?.....How come u are now saying there is one thing God created alone....are u not contradicting the everything stated in scripture?


So if Jesus was created, it means Jesus was created through Jesus

I know the TRINITY doctrine will blur your senses!

The everything includes Jesus himself shey?

Well you gave your own interpretation and i gave mine, only begotten son means the one and only creature DIRECTLY created by God, apart from him nothing was made because Jesus is the first born meaning the first creature! Colossians 1:15-16

That's why God's word often separate Jehovah from everything under the control of Jesus! 1Corinthians 15:27-28

Sorry my guy, Jehovah's Witnesses are too much for common Churchgoers like you to disgrace as you think! Isaiah 54:17

Present the achievements of Trinity doctrine just as i've presented that of Jesus (Michael) after all Jesus himself said "Evil tree will not produce fine fruit, neither can good tree bear routine fruits" Matthew 7:16-18

So let's see the benefits of Trinity Jesus in the midst of trinitarians!

Maximus69:


I know the TRINITY doctrine will blur your senses!

The everything includes Jesus himself shey?

Well you gave your own interpretation and i gave mine, only begotten son means the one and only creature DIRECTLY created by God, apart from him nothing was made because Jesus is the first born meaning the first creature! Colossians 1:15-16

That's why God's word often separate Jehovah from everything under the control of Jesus! 1Corinthians 15:27-28

Sorry my guy, Jehovah's Witnesses are too much for common Churchgoers like you to disgrace as you think!

Present the achievements of Trinity doctrine just as i've presented that of Jesus (Michael) after all Jesus himself said "Evil tree will not produce fine fruit, neither can good tree bear routine fruits" Matthew 7:16-18

So let's see the benefits of Trinity Jesus in the midst of trinitarians!

I didn't give an interpretation I quoted scripture for you

John 1:3 "God created everything through Jesus, without him nothing was made." This is not my interpretation, it's scripture

Does Jesus belong to the Everything referred to in John 1:3?

Myer:


What do you know about the fruit of the spirit?
You think it's by head knowledge?

At least he is able to discern that the fruit is what Paul listed in the Bible book of Galatians 5:22-23
And he is able to apply it to what he is seeing amongst Jehovah's Witnesses!
I think that's commendable!

freshboi88:


I didn't give an interpretation I quoted scripture for you

John 1:3 "God created everything through Jesus, without him nothing was made." This is not my interpretation, it's scripture

Does Jesus belong to the Everything referred to in John 1:3?

Why not explain what (the only begotten son) means?

TATIME:


Why not explain what (the only begotten son) means?

Leave him joh!

He wants to quote the Bible in support of his religion forgetting that even Muslims, Buddhists even Traditionalists will quote a passage to support what they believe.

But what will they fail to do?

Work in harmony with what they're quoting to derive benefits for all dedicated members of their group! Isaiah 48:17-18

TATIME:


Why not explain what (the only begotten son) means?

Only begotten son simple refers to the uniqueness of Jesus, as the only one who shares the same Nature and Essence as The Father.

In a clearer term, pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind." This is the meaning that is implied in John 3:16 (see also John 1:14, 18; 3:18; 1 John 4:9).

John highlights Jesus as uniquely God’s Son—sharing the same divine nature as God—as opposed to believers who are God’s sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5). Jesus is God’s “one and only” Son.


So do you get the picture it has nothing to do with been created.


I have explained, your turm

John 1:3 God created everything through Jesus and Nothing was created without him

So according to Jehovah Witness Teaching, Jesus was created through Jesus

African Pastors That Can Raise The Dead - When Will They Start Using Their Powers on Corona Virus victims?
Everywhere you go across Africa, there always seem to be a messiah who is capable of performing some incredible miracles, from curing the blind, healing the sick to raising the dead.
When will these men start using their healing powers on Corona Virus victims?
Why is the lack of standard hospitals across Africa still a problem in the midst of these powerful men?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTFf6frgtBY

freshboi88:


Only begotten son simple refers to the uniqueness of Jesus, as the only one who shares the same Nature and Essence as The Father.

In a clearer term, pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind." This is the meaning that is implied in John 3:16 (see also John 1:14, 18; 3:18; 1 John 4:9).

John highlights Jesus as uniquely God’s Son—sharing the same divine nature as God—as opposed to believers who are God’s sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5). Jesus is God’s “one and only” Son.


So do you get the picture it has nothing to do with been created.


I have explained, your turm

John 1:3 God created everything through Jesus and Nothing was created without him

So according to Jehovah Witness Teaching, Jesus was created through Jesus

Your case is just like a student convincing himself that he's formula is excellent but not applicable anywhere, unable to solve the problems!

TATIME:


Your case is just like a student convincing himself that he's formula is excellent but not applicable anywhere, unable to solve the problems!

Not even one single problem!

Maximus69:


The problem with you people is misdirected zeal! Roman 10:2-3

How can you say someone is using scriptures in wrong context, yet it's only his application that's working out what is benefitial? Matthew 7:16-18

Why can't you prove your interpretation as the right one by applying it so as to make it work out what is benefitial in order for everyone to see? Matthew 5:14-16 compare to James 2:18-26

You now sound stupid when you say "if you're questioned"

Come on, what is the essence of carrying the Bible up and down when everything you taught people to apply in it brings no benefits in the midst of those you're teaching? 2Timothy 3:7

For your information, if only the gathering of Jehovah's Witnesses bears the FRUIT of God's holy spirit {Galatians 5:22-23} yet you're arguing against them, know today that you're fighting a lost battle, but the fearful thing is you're actually fighting against God himself! Matthew 12:31-32

When Jesus said sin against God's holy spirit will not be forgiven, go and think over it very well because God doesn't want any to perish but for all to come and repent {2Peter 3:9}, so it's because after you've witnessed the fruitage of God's holy spirit with your own eyes in a group yet you're opposing such a group, there is no other way you can be redeemed!

Mr Maximus69

Calm down and don't overwork yourself. The journey is still far, it is not a sprint race, so don't burn out early. We will both be here for long.

By the way, I said "hope you will be ready to provide answers if you are questioned" because you have showed overtime here to avoid explaining scriptures you use howbeit, out of context or application. Hence depriving the verses of its true inspiration.

I don't think I have asked for much for you to get worked up and display inherent but common wrong attitude among those who avoid being questioned on their doctrine. It will be good if you start working on such inherent outbursts. It can't help much far.

I have told you emotions can show seal but don't translate to rightness or correctness of doctrine.

And it is also sad how much you have tried to push words that aren't mine into my post context. That's lack of sincerity and honesty. You have kept mentioning your organization and I can't see anywhere I spoke against your organization irrespective of what they believe.

You are the one who is here discussing scriptures and I have consistently questioned your motives for scripture manipulation. And your response has been emotional and sentimental.

Why not face the facts of scriptures you quote or avoid quoting. It is sad that I can't ignore deliberate manipulation of verses without having to question you. I will be a bad student of the word if I do such.

So sheath your sword, and let your pen speaks as you have been using it to lift scriptures out of its inspired meaning, you should be able to use same to defend your intentions.

No personal issues, just the Word.

TATIME:


Your case is just like a student convincing himself that he's formula is excellent but not applicable anywhere, unable to solve the problems!

Y dont u answer my question oga.

If doctrine has blinded you so much, u can't understand anything nymore. Let's take it one step at a time

Is Jesus part of God's creature?

Adakintroy2:


The bible have singular interpretations but we have multi denominations with multi doctrines all claiming to be the right one.

So now what is the truth? No long text. Just sum it up in few senstences?

If the truth can be some up in few sentences, God wouldn't have written 66 books spanning over 1000 years. If God used 66 books to communicate the truth, who am I to use few sentences.

But when you start to find the inspired intention of the authors without adding personal revelation, then there lies the truth. As a text of the scriptures will not mean today, what it never meant when the author was inspired to write it.

Hence, the singular truth is to find out the inspired intent of the author not our own interpretation and the foundation of interpreting any writing put together is that it must be contextual. Even if we don't know anything, we shouldn't lose sight of context in interpretation.

Maximus69:


Not even one single problem!

Who is talking bout solving problems here. Jesus has solved all my problems already.

Now is Jesus part of God's creature?

hupernikao:


Mr Maximus69

Calm down and don't overwork yourself. The journey is still far, it is not a sprint race, so don't burn out early. We will both be here for long.

By the way, I said "hope you will be ready to provide answers if you are questioned" because you have showed overtime here to avoid explaining scriptures you use howbeit, out of context or application. Hence depriving the verses of its true inspiration.

I don't think I have asked for much for you to get worked up and display inherent but common wrong attitude among those who avoid being questioned on their doctrine. It will be good if you start working on such inherent outbursts. It can't help much far.

I have told you emotions can show seal but don't translate to rightness or correctness of doctrine.

And it is also sad how much you have tried to push words that aren't mine into my post context. That's lack of sincerity and honesty. You have kept mentioning your organization and I can't see anywhere I spoke against your organization irrespective of what they believe.

You are the one who is here discussing scriptures and I have consistently questioned your motives for scripture manipulation. And your response has been emotional and sentimental.

Why not face the facts of scriptures you quote or avoid quoting. It is sad that I can't ignore deliberate manipulation of verses without having to question you. I will be a bad student of the word if I do such.

So sheath your sword, and let your pen speaks as you have been using it to lift scriptures out of its inspired meaning, you should be able to use same to defend your intentions.

No personal issues, just the Word.

Before Christ God's people have to struggle arguing with unbelievers about who knows the truth.

But today the result is here, so God's Holy Spirit is defending the Bible!

The fruit is here now, so just present the fruit and allow observers to see for themselves!

You said i quote God's word out of context, of course that's what the Pharisees and Saddusees were saying about Jesus and his disciples.

But there is no need for arguments today, go out and make disciples the way Jehovah's Witnesses have done, let people see the result of your teachings in the way and manner adherents of your teachings comport themselves!

freshboi88:


Who is talking bout solving problems here. Jesus has solved all my problems already.

Now is Jesus part of God's creature?

Keep asking and you will receive! Matthew 7:7

Maximus69:


Read Galatians 1:13-15

Notice how Saul(Paul) was zealous for the God of Israel, but in the wrong group (Judaism) then meditate on how humble, hardworking and enthusiastic about Christ later!

Perhaps you can now answer your own question, was he a sheep or lost?

Well you are showing the same trait as his earlier life, and I am sure you will reach the later stage as he did sooner or later.

Maximus69:


Before Christ God's people have to struggle arguing with unbelievers about who knows the truth.

But today the result is here, so God's Holy Spirit is defending the Bible!

The fruit is here now, so just present the fruit and allow observers to see for themselves!

You said i quote God's word out of context, of course that's what the Pharisees and Saddusees were saying about Jesus and his disciples.

But there is no need for arguments today, go out and make disciples the way Jehovah's Witnesses have done, let people see the result of your teachings in the way and manner adherents of your teachings comport themselves!

Ensure you hold to the result and stop quoting out of context, that can safe you well.

Maximus69:


Keep asking and you will receive! Matthew 7:7

Tis dude has been decimated. I noticed u avoided me.

God created Jesus through Jesus Religion. You can't answer because u have no answer to that. I have exposed the lie in Jwit Jesus Creation story.
All u need to do now is run to Ur elder on d kingdom hall, to come and answer the question

hupernikao:


If the truth can be some up in few sentences, God wouldn't have written 66 books spanning over 1000 years. If God used 66 books to communicate the truth, who am I to use few sentences.

But when you start to find the inspired intention of the authors without adding personal revelation, then there lies the truth. As a text of the scriptures will not mean today, what it never meant when the author was inspired to write it.

Hence, the singular truth is to find out the inspired intent of the author not our own interpretation and the foundation of interpreting any writing put together is that it must be contextual. Even if we don't know anything, we shouldn't lose sight of context in interpretation.

He who loves have fulfill all the scriptures. That's what you should have said. Now abide faith hope and love but the greatest is love.

If their be knowledge they will cease. But love never fail. This are your line of thoughts. You don't need to

hupernikao:


Ensure you hold to the result and stop quoting out of context, that can safe you well.

Not even you and all your cohorts can stop us from helping honest hearted and sincere people to see how God's word is undergoing fulfilment in our time!

When the Christians received God's holy spirit, Peter boldly quoted the scriptures to help honest hearted observers! Act 2:14-21

But your ancestors the Pharisees were furious at the result of God's holy spirit, they were ordering them not to apply it to their group! Act 5:28

So not even you and all your cohorts can stop us from telling people what we've heard, seen and experienced in the midst of God's people (Jehovah's Witnesses)! Act 5:29-32

Maximus69:


Before Christ God's people have to struggle arguing with unbelievers about who knows the truth.

But today the result is here, so God's Holy Spirit is defending the Bible!

The fruit is here now, so just present the fruit and allow observers to see for themselves!

You said i quote God's word out of context, of course that's what the Pharisees and Saddusees were saying about Jesus and his disciples.

But there is no need for arguments today, go out and make disciples the way Jehovah's Witnesses have done, let people see the result of your teachings in the way and manner adherents of your teachings comport themselves!

Ensure you hold to the result and stop quoting out of context, maybe that can save you well.

Maximus69:


Not even you and all your cohorts can stop us from helping honest hearted and sincere people to see how God's word is undergoing fulfilment in our time!

When the Christians received God's holy spirit, Peter boldly quoted the scriptures to help honest hearted observers! Act 2:14-21

But your ancestors the Pharisees were furious at the result of God's holy spirit, they were ordering them not to apply it to their group! Act 5:28

So not even you and all your cohorts can stop us from telling people what we've heard, seen and experienced in the midst of God's people (Jehovah's Witnesses)! Act 5:29-32

You will have to calm down and buckle up o.

Adakintroy2:


He who loves have fulfill all the scriptures. That's what you should have said. Now abide faith hope and love but the greatest is love.

Weather they be knowledge they will cease. But love never fail. This are your line if thoughts

Bro, I have asked you and please answer now.

Does the bible teaches we ignore and embrace those who teaches wrong/false doctrine? Just show me where.

If a so called Christian rise tomorrow and say Jesus never resurrected, where will your love be defined in this. In overlooking and accepting or in rebuking him.