News of a potential assault on the government of the Ivory Coast by ECOMOG forces to dislodge self-crowned President Laurent Gbagbo is eliciting many responses around the region, some very thoughtful. And for good reasons.  As one who yearns to see true democracy and open governments flourish throughout Africa, my first instinct is to applaud and support Ecowas’ resolve to speak the only language Gbagbo and his “African Strongman” clique understand – more brutal force than they possess.

Yet, as much as I’d like to see Gbagbo given a dose of his own medicine, I feel a little conflicted.

That is partly due to the fact that one has to be blind not to see that once again, Africans are being used by Western powers as proxies to fight their dirty war for them. The drumbeat for the ousting of Gbagbo has little or nothing to do with strengthening democracy in that sister country. Rather, as usual, “democracy” just happens to be a convenient cover for the real motivations behind the “international community’s” push to uproot a stubborn Strongman who wouldn’t play ball their way.

Just as Rwanda and Ugandan soldiers were sent by unnamed members of “international community” into the Democratic Republic of the Congo over ten years ago to prevent a surprisingly defiant Laurent Kabila from changing the decades-old status quo in his country, (foreign control and the mindless looting of the country’s vast mineral wealth -especially uranium,) West Africans are being prodded to go into the Ivory Coast to kill their own just so that the status quo could be maintained.

The push by the west to install Ouatara has nothing to do with his contested win at the polls, it has everything to do with his cozy relationship with the anal and manipulative French. I loved Ouattara until I started to dig in, to do more research on the gentleman. Now, I find myself qualifying my statements regarding him. You see, of all the former European colonialists, the French remain the one people who are adamant not to let go of the inhumane and corrupt system that colonialism was. In any former French colony, a good barometer of any public official’s nationalist bent is his or her relationship with the French. As simplistic as this may sound, the more the French like an African public official, the less independent or nationalistic that person normally is. Anyone willing to sell their country to them for pennies on the dollar is “mon ami,” while nationalists are quickly plotted against. That’s how they bankrolled the ousting and murder of Thomas Sankara by his erstwhile bosom buddy – now life president, Blaise Campaore.

The Portuguese might be more brutal, but the French are more manipulative and unrelenting. From the insulting and counterintuitive financial and security arrangements they imposed on their “independent” colonies, to their primary involvement with public sector Cash Cows in those countries to this day, they continue to devise devious ways of scheming Africans out of their resources – of course with collaboration from puppet leaders.
Gbagbo, whether out of cunning or opportunism, has  latched onto Ouattara’s closeness to the French high society, to tremendous benefit. Many, who would ordinarily excoriate Gbagbo pull back because his suggestion about Ouattara being a French stooge resonates with them. This is key, and other west African leaders should keep this in mind.

The current state of affairs in the Ivory Coast is that the French still rule through the back door. If  the plain truth be told, the Ivory Coast, like most of the former French colonies, remain a vast plantation designed and sustained purposely to serve as a source of cheap raw materials for multiple French industries. France is determined to continue maintaining its stranglehold on Ivory Coast. We shouldn’t let our people be the donkeys on which they hop back on their gravy train.

Gbagbo has serous issues, no doubt. In so many ways, he took over from where Henrie Conan Bedie left off in the insidious ethnic jingoism that is at the root of the civil discord that has torn the Ivory Coast apart in the last ten years. At the heart of that dirty game is the classification of mainly northern migrant workers, -many, decades-old residents of the country, and their offspring as ‘foreigners.” Somehow, “real” Ivoirians are Western or Southern Ivoirians. The usual foreign religion divisiveness is also at play.

In fairness to Gbagbo, this mentality is pervasive among Ivoirians. A friend of mine, whose paternal side is in fact Malagasy by origin, and who can only claim Ivorian citizenship through his Southerner mother, ironically holds very strong anti-Ouatara views because the man is a “foreigner.” Like I point out to him, the vast majority of professionals in very critical areas of the US economy like IT, Space Exploration, and many branches of Medical Research are all foreign-born. Using the Ivoirian yardstick, none of those people, as indeed many of us African professionals in the US, will ever qualify as US citizens.

What ought to separate a citizen from a noncitizen is the degree of passion and dedication one brings to solving national problems, not the accident of birth. Many of the people who are routinely disparaged and harangued as “foreigners” in that country happen to be among the hardest working people in the country. They do for Ivory Coast exactly what Latin American immigrants do for the US – work on agricultural farms to produce cheap food for the population, work on physically demanding construction works, and do all manner of menial work for little pay. They are the lubricants that keep the Ivorian economy kicking. Yet, they endure unspeakable abuse at the hands of self-ascribed “real Ivoirians,” the same way so many fellow Africans are now at the receiving end of the shameful xenophobia from a mostly ungrateful Black South Africa. At the very basic level, the specter of Africans denigrating each other as ‘foreigners’ in any African country in this day and age is disgraceful.

Like I made a case for before, one of our main problems in Africa is that we don’t learn much from past lessons. Neither do we imitate others’ good ideas. There’s nothing wrong with copying someone else’s good idea. When George Bush and Tony Blair conspired to remove Saddam Hussein from power, they did not confine themselves to the military aspect alone. In fact, they drew up plans regarding the country’s entire restructuring, especially as it relates to resource control. The duo of course, arrogated to themselves the power to determine who controls what in the post-Saddam era, going as far as publicly excluding nations that were resistant to be bamboozled into taking part in what was in fact a choice war for resource grab.

Substantively, we should do no different in Ivory Coast. Let me elaborate.

It’s pretty obvious that only one West African country –Nigeria, has the military resources to go in and uproot Laurent Gbagbo. However, in the best case scenario, this is likely to be very costly in both human and material resources. And if history is anything to go by, other than being lauded with meaningless diplomatic platitudes, Nigeria would not reap anything from where it actually sowed something. Liberia is a good case in point, yet is not an exception.

Instead, one can bet that the considerable reconstruction funds that are almost certain to follow the soldiers, would without any doubt all be given to “companies with experience” (note the usual euphemism.) But even worse than that, the Ivory Coast will go right back to being the French plantation run remotely by absentee le’ blue landlords and capitalists that it is.  Old wine will go right into new bottles and nothing will change.

As such, what needs to be straightened before one West African soldier’s blood is shed is the New Normal that has to be established in the Ivory Coast. The ten largest banks in Nigeria have the capital to underwrite serious infrastructural and capital investments in the Ivory Coast to mutual benefit – especially if the banks handle the nation’s finances on the terms that the French banks currently do. Nigeria especially HAS to demand this! The culture of stepping in to help a sister republic only to watch outsiders come and reap the benefits doesn’t help Africa in any way. There is adequate professional knowhow in West Africa to take over from the French in the Ivory Coast. And unlike the French, Africans under Nigerian leadership, can devise a formula under which Ivory Coast will actually benefit more from its resources than it has in the past. Obasanjo, for all his problems had it right when he kept questioning why West Africa continues to sell raw cocoa produce at give-away prices when with just a little processing, we could triple our income. Allassane Ouattara has to agree to this new arrangement before a single soldier heads his way.

The good news is, Ouattara does not have much of a choice. His French friends cannot get him into power because the French public has no stomach for any more criminal adventure by its elites under whatever guise. And Gbagbo’s posture is such that, their Ivoirian lackeys are seriously limited in what they can do under the table. This is why the French are pushing hard for the UN to egg on fellow West Africans. For once, we shouldn’t be fools. What is good for the French goose is good for the Nigerian gander!

It’s because of the calamitous leadership situation, but otherwise, this shouldn’t even be a subject of long discussion. A Nigeria properly led, would have long exerted its version of Manifest Destiny in West Africa! But we all know the situation with Nigerian national leadership.

Goodluck Jonathan is an extraordinarily lucky man (to get as far as he has on so obviously  paltry  political mettle and personal forte,) but to anyone discerning, the man is out of his league. The spate of bombings in Nigeria recently, the dismal failure on the electricity situation even as we learn that Nigeria’s once enviable foreign reserves are almost depleted, are clear indictments on Jonathan’s leadership.  It is also because of Jonathan’s lack of force of personality that a criminal cabal toyed with Nigerians a year ago. Any VP worth his or her mettle would have called off the Yar'Adua cabal’s bluff to end the charade they had going on months before the man’s death. As such, we cannot trust Jonathan to stand up to the French and their powerful allies including Barack Obama. It is noteworthy that Jonathan quickly convened the Abuja Ecowas meeting as soon as Obama gave him his marching orders.

This is where civil society comes in. We need civil groups to put pressure on Jonathan to exact concessions from Ouattara before one Nigerian soldier leaves for Abidjan. Call it quid pro quo if you will. I chose to call it The New African Brotherhood. We can spread our continent’s wealth among ourselves, instead of watching others continue to loot it, only to turn around and throw pittance at us with benign contempt as “aid.”

Criminal carnage in Nigeria

My heart goes out to the families of the innocent people who just happened to have been at the wrong place at the wrong time. May the souls of the dead rest in eternal peace, and the wounded get speedy recovery. One can only hope that the Nigerian government will rise up to its responsibility to protect ALL its citizens from criminals regardless of hue. Those responsible for killing innocent people should be brought to justice.

By Saul Saidykhan
Sahararoporters.

This is lovely, You are right with every word

If this was a Tribalism thread, hin for don reach 12 pages, na wah for Nigerians sef

@ OYINBOGOJU,

Thank you for the brilliant analysis of the Ivory Coast situation. It would be comical if Ecomog go all that way to flush out a despot only to install another despot afterwards.

Thanks for the brilliant analysis, The day we african start to take responsibility for our own deficiencies that will be the beginning of new development.

i am not supporting Gbagbo in any way but at the same time i have to be very smart on any step taken by the West.

For how long will this continue,

anyway lets wait and see what our own Politician will do,maybe Ecomog shall be invited to monitor the election proceedings.

Gbagbo looks like it will take a devine intervention a la Abacha to remove him from power. The Ecomog intervention seems almost inevitable now.

OYINBOGOJU:

News of a potential assault on the government of the Ivory Coast by ECOMOG forces to dislodge self-crowned President Laurent Gbagbo is eliciting many responses around the region, some very thoughtful. And for good reasons.  As one who yearns to see true democracy and open governments flourish throughout Africa, my first instinct is to applaud and support Ecowas’ resolve to speak the only language Gbagbo and his “African Strongman” clique understand – more brutal force than they possess.

Yet, as much as I’d like to see Gbagbo given a dose of his own medicine, I feel a little conflicted.

That is partly due to the fact that one has to be blind not to see that once again, Africans are being used by Western powers as proxies to fight their dirty war for them. The drumbeat for the ousting of Gbagbo has little or nothing to do with strengthening democracy in that sister country. Rather, as usual, “democracy” just happens to be a convenient cover for the real motivations behind the “international community’s” push to uproot a stubborn Strongman who wouldn’t play ball their way.

Just as Rwanda and Ugandan soldiers were sent by unnamed members of “international community” into the Democratic Republic of the Congo over ten years ago to prevent a surprisingly defiant Laurent Kabila from changing the decades-old status quo in his country, (foreign control and the mindless looting of the country’s vast mineral wealth -especially uranium,) West Africans are being prodded to go into the Ivory Coast to kill their own just so that the status quo could be maintained.

The push by the west to install Ouatara has nothing to do with his contested win at the polls, it has everything to do with his cozy relationship with the anal and manipulative French. I loved Ouattara until I started to dig in, to do more research on the gentleman. Now, I find myself qualifying my statements regarding him. You see, of all the former European colonialists, the French remain the one people who are adamant not to let go of the inhumane and corrupt system that colonialism was. In any former French colony, a good barometer of any public official’s nationalist bent is his or her relationship with the French. As simplistic as this may sound, the more the French like an African public official, the less independent or nationalistic that person normally is. Anyone willing to sell their country to them for pennies on the dollar is “mon ami,” while nationalists are quickly plotted against. That’s how they bankrolled the ousting and murder of Thomas Sankara by his erstwhile bosom buddy – now life president, Blaise Campaore.

The Portuguese might be more brutal, but the French are more manipulative and unrelenting. From the insulting and counterintuitive financial and security arrangements they imposed on their “independent” colonies, to their primary involvement with public sector Cash Cows in those countries to this day, they continue to devise devious ways of scheming Africans out of their resources – of course with collaboration from puppet leaders.
Gbagbo, whether out of cunning or opportunism, has  latched onto Ouattara’s closeness to the French high society, to tremendous benefit. Many, who would ordinarily excoriate Gbagbo pull back because his suggestion about Ouattara being a French stooge resonates with them. This is key, and other west African leaders should keep this in mind.

The current state of affairs in the Ivory Coast is that the French still rule through the back door. If  the plain truth be told, the Ivory Coast, like most of the former French colonies, remain a vast plantation designed and sustained purposely to serve as a source of cheap raw materials for multiple French industries. France is determined to continue maintaining its stranglehold on Ivory Coast. We shouldn’t let our people be the donkeys on which they hop back on their gravy train.

[b]Gbagbo has serous issues, no doubt. [/b]In so many ways, he took over from where Henrie Conan Bedie left off in the insidious ethnic jingoism that is at the root of the civil discord that has torn the Ivory Coast apart in the last ten years. At the heart of that dirty game is the classification of mainly northern migrant workers, -many, decades-old residents of the country, and their offspring as ‘foreigners.” Somehow, “real” Ivoirians are Western or Southern Ivoirians. The usual foreign religion divisiveness is also at play.

In fairness to Gbagbo, this mentality is pervasive among Ivoirians. A friend of mine, whose paternal side is in fact Malagasy by origin, and who can only claim Ivorian citizenship through his Southerner mother, ironically holds very strong anti-Ouatara views because the man is a “foreigner.” Like I point out to him, the vast majority of professionals in very critical areas of the US economy like IT, Space Exploration, and many branches of Medical Research are all foreign-born. Using the Ivoirian yardstick, none of those people, as indeed many of us African professionals in the US, will ever qualify as US citizens.

What ought to separate a citizen from a noncitizen is the degree of passion and dedication one brings to solving national problems, not the accident of birth. Many of the people who are routinely disparaged and harangued as “foreigners” in that country happen to be among the hardest working people in the country. They do for Ivory Coast exactly what Latin American immigrants do for the US – work on agricultural farms to produce cheap food for the population, work on physically demanding construction works, and do all manner of menial work for little pay. They are the lubricants that keep the Ivorian economy kicking. Yet, they endure unspeakable abuse at the hands of self-ascribed “real Ivoirians,” the same way so many fellow Africans are now at the receiving end of the shameful xenophobia from a mostly ungrateful Black South Africa. At the very basic level, the specter of Africans denigrating each other as ‘foreigners’ in any African country in this day and age is disgraceful.

Like I made a case for before, one of our main problems in Africa is that we don’t learn much from past lessons. Neither do we imitate others’ good ideas. There’s nothing wrong with copying someone else’s good idea. When George Bush and Tony Blair conspired to remove Saddam Hussein from power, they did not confine themselves to the military aspect alone. In fact, they drew up plans regarding the country’s entire restructuring, especially as it relates to resource control. The duo of course, arrogated to themselves the power to determine who controls what in the post-Saddam era, going as far as publicly excluding nations that were resistant to be bamboozled into taking part in what was in fact a choice war for resource grab.

Substantively, we should do no different in Ivory Coast. Let me elaborate.

It’s pretty obvious that only one West African country –Nigeria, has the military resources to go in and uproot Laurent Gbagbo. However, in the best case scenario, this is likely to be very costly in both human and material resources. And if history is anything to go by, other than being lauded with meaningless diplomatic platitudes, Nigeria would not reap anything from where it actually sowed something. Liberia is a good case in point, yet is not an exception.

Instead, one can bet that the considerable reconstruction funds that are almost certain to follow the soldiers, would without any doubt all be given to “companies with experience” (note the usual euphemism.) But even worse than that, the Ivory Coast will go right back to being the French plantation run remotely by absentee le’ blue landlords and capitalists that it is.  Old wine will go right into new bottles and nothing will change.

As such, what needs to be straightened before one West African soldier’s blood is shed is the New Normal that has to be established in the Ivory Coast. The ten largest banks in Nigeria have the capital to underwrite serious infrastructural and capital investments in the Ivory Coast to mutual benefit – especially if the banks handle the nation’s finances on the terms that the French banks currently do. Nigeria especially HAS to demand this! The culture of stepping in to help a sister republic only to watch outsiders come and reap the benefits doesn’t help Africa in any way. There is adequate professional knowhow in West Africa to take over from the French in the Ivory Coast. And unlike the French, Africans under Nigerian leadership, can devise a formula under which Ivory Coast will actually benefit more from its resources than it has in the past. Obasanjo, for all his problems had it right when he kept questioning why West Africa continues to sell raw cocoa produce at give-away prices when with just a little processing, we could triple our income. Allassane Ouattara has to agree to this new arrangement before a single soldier heads his way.

The good news is, Ouattara does not have much of a choice. His French friends cannot get him into power because the French public has no stomach for any more criminal adventure by its elites under whatever guise. And Gbagbo’s posture is such that, their Ivoirian lackeys are seriously limited in what they can do under the table. This is why the French are pushing hard for the UN to egg on fellow West Africans. For once, we shouldn’t be fools. What is good for the French goose is good for the Nigerian gander!

It’s because of the calamitous leadership situation, but otherwise, this shouldn’t even be a subject of long discussion. A Nigeria properly led, would have long exerted its version of Manifest Destiny in West Africa! But we all know the situation with Nigerian national leadership.

Goodluck Jonathan is an extraordinarily lucky man (to get as far as he has on so obviously  paltry  political mettle and personal forte,) but to anyone discerning, the man is out of his league. The spate of bombings in Nigeria recently, the dismal failure on the electricity situation even as we learn that Nigeria’s once enviable foreign reserves are almost depleted, are clear indictments on Jonathan’s leadership.  It is also because of Jonathan’s lack of force of personality that a criminal cabal toyed with Nigerians a year ago. Any VP worth his or her mettle would have called off the Yar'Adua cabal’s bluff to end the charade they had going on months before the man’s death. As such, we cannot trust Jonathan to stand up to the French and their powerful allies including Barack Obama. It is noteworthy that Jonathan quickly convened the Abuja Ecowas meeting as soon as Obama gave him his marching orders.

This is where civil society comes in. We need civil groups to put pressure on Jonathan to exact concessions from Ouattara before one Nigerian soldier leaves for Abidjan. Call it quid pro quo if you will. I chose to call it The New African Brotherhood. We can spread our continent’s wealth among ourselves, instead of watching others continue to loot it, only to turn around and throw pittance at us with benign contempt as “aid.”

Criminal carnage in Nigeria

My heart goes out to the families of the innocent people who just happened to have been at the wrong place at the wrong time. May the souls of the dead rest in eternal peace, and the wounded get speedy recovery. One can only hope that the Nigerian government will rise up to its responsibility to protect ALL its citizens from criminals regardless of hue. Those responsible for killing innocent people should be brought to justice.

By Saul Saidykhan
Sahararoporters.

this looks more like a whinning to me.you cant blame the west for the problems of the past and still blame them for present day problems

even when[b] the actual cause of such problems[/b] is coming from our greedy african head of states.Gbagbo has no authority to challenge an election he

didnt win.the legal thing he would have done was to have called for a tribunal to look into the so-called irregularities before swearing himself into power simply

because he controls the military and other security agencies.

the right thing must be done and ousting an illegitimate government imo is the right thing for ECOWAS to do.it has nothing to with the west.

shotster50:

@ OYINBOGOJU,

Thank you for the brilliant analysis of the Ivory Coast situation. It would be comical if Ecomog go all that way to flush out a despot only to install another despot afterwards.

The section in bold should also apply to us, it would be disastrous if we all go out to vote out an inefficient leader to install a viciously inefficient leader. Gbagbo was the same man the whole world had to help to get to office just some few years back now he has turned out like this, what if in a free and fair contest we allow an Atiku steal his way in only to have him rig himself in for a 2nd term when truly we are fed up with him and go ahead to install a stooge after his 8yr reign.


We should analyse the Ivory Coast scenario more closely and relate it to our own situation.

marvix:

The section in bold should also apply to us, it would be disastrous if we all go out to vote out an inefficient leader to install a viciously inefficient leader. Gbagbo was the same man the whole world had to help to get to office just some few years back now he has turned out like this, what if in a free and fair contest we allow an Atiku steal his way in only to have him rig himself in for a 2nd term when truly we are fed up with him and go ahead to install a stooge after his 8yr reign.


We should analyse the Ivory Coast scenario more closely and relate it to our own situation.

how about relating it with your signature ?

Before ECOMOG ventures into CD'I. . .the soldiers should be castrated with Okija knives.
We don't want history to repeat itself do we?

Blazay:

Before ECOMOG ventures into CDV. . .the soldiers should be castrated by an Okija knife.
We don't want history to repeat itself do we?

LWKMD, Another 300,000 fatherless kids in the making.

~Bluetooth:

how about relating it with your signature ?

How about I cahange my signature to "if u no gree go hug a transformer"

Ecomog should not go anywhere oooo.

With the things going on in Naija right now, we just might need dem troops a lot more than cote d'ivoire.

Idi Amin, Laurent-Désiré Kabila, Mobutu Sese Seko, Charles Taylor, Robert Mugabe, IBB, Muammar al-Gaddafi, Hosni Mubarak, OBJ etc.
African power hungry leaders will never learn.
Lets keep praying for CD'I, For God to avert the imminent bloodshed of african blood.

Brilliant analysis. My only fear is d collateral cost of d action, it will b unavoidably great on both sides.

homerac7:

Brilliant analysis. My only fear is d collateral cost of d action, it will b unavoidably great on both sides.

Someone has to pay the price bro.

The reality of the matter is even if ecomog wants to, it just does not have the capacity to carry out a touch and go operation. Any attempt to try and forcefully remove Gbagbo would at best end in a stalemate, chances of completely routing Gbagbo's forces within the first few months of operation is completely wishful thinking. It did not happen in Liberia it didn't happen in Sierra leone. If the case of previous intervention is to be taken into account. what we would have is a long drawn out bloody expensive campaign which would cost lots of lives and propertry not to talk of creating a huge Humanitarian Disaster unprecedented in West Africa. we should remember that we are not talking about Tiny Liberia or Sierra leone we are talking about a country with an estimated population of 20mil here. In the end of the day after many would have dead and millions of dollars wasted every one would have to agree to go back to the negotiating table. The best hope for Cote D’ivoire is sanctions. The international community should target the circle from military head to key ministers so that there see that it is not in their interest to back the gbago government. This might seem long and even frustrating. But before me compared to Military intervention it is the best approach

Will Ecowas bring ecomong troop to unseat Jonathan when Ribadu wins 2011 elections and upturn by GEJ, I dey laugh

bigrovar:

The reality of the matter is even if ecomog wants to, it just does not have the capacity to carry out a touch and go operation. Any attempt to try and forcefully remove Gbagbo would at best end in a stalemate, chances of completely routing Gbagbo's forces within the first few months of operation is completely wishful thinking. It did not happen in Liberia it didn't happen in Sierra leone. If the case of previous intervention is to be taken into account. what we would have is a long drawn out bloody expensive campaign which would cost lots of lives and propertry not to talk of creating a huge Humanitarian Disaster unprecedented in West Africa. we should remember that we are not talking about Tiny Liberia or Sierra leone we are talking about a country with an estimated population of 20mil here. In the end of the day after many would have dead and millions of dollars wasted every one would have to agree to go back to the negotiating table. The best hope for Cote D’ivoire is sanctions. The international community should target the circle from military head to key ministers so that there see that it is not in their interest to back the gbago government. This might seem long and even frustrating. But before me compared to Military intervention it is the best approach

Sanctions do nothing. They couldn't force Saddam out, they couldn't faze Mugabe. Why do you think they'd work in Ivory Coast?

Instead of us to ask if there is any difference between Gbagbo and bush. We all know bush never defeated Al gore!! Yet bush stole a mandate he never won with the help of the supreme court. We know the number of days it took them to release the result. The case in ivory coast is being misinterpreted, Gbagbo did not won the election but actually find its way to Rig it with the help of the constitutional court which is the highest court on election disputes. Ecomog and united nation should respect the Sovereignty of Ivory coast for Gods sake. Did the usa try this when Obj went for the do or die syndrome? The same thing they did in zimbabwe. Africans should not be a respecter of western media all the time. We knew what happenned in iraq even after there is no trace of the hype nuclear weapons that bush was crying wolf over. As for me i will sit down and watch you people ramble and rumble.

Its time for ECOMOG to act as a regional bloc and stamp out this useless cling to Power by these neaderthal leaders who have no concept of democratic progress of any sort. For the sake of a continuation of democratic principles Gbagbo needs to be unseated.

What has Gbagbo done in government to warrant his continous support. Nothing. A stagnated economy simply implementing IMF programs and borrowing money left, right and center to prop their economy up.

This squabble sets a bad precedence for the rest of West African leaders when they know they can get away with such devious acts. If I were still in the army I would have joined up to go take out that buffoon. How many troops does Ivory Coast have and how long will they survive if they don't recieve pay or weapons. Baring the notorious Russia who go give them weapon and with which money will they pay. Liberia and sierra leone at least had diamonds, wetin Ivory cost get

Its time for some whoop azz.  "Esprit de corp".

Very brillant analysis by Oyinbogoju!

tunnytox:

Very brillant analysis by Oyinbogoju!

Thanks bro,

Come to think of it, hope some people are learning,

texazzpete:


Sanctions do nothing. They couldn't force Saddam out, they couldn't faze Mugabe. Why do you think they'd work in Ivory Coast?

The mugabe situ is completely different because whether directly and indirectly he does have the support of SADC and AU. hence sactions from the west is unlikely to make much impact on him. The situ in Ivory Coast is different. Gbagbo has lost support of His West African Neighbours . and about Saddam, Sactions did not force him out, But it did contain him while the situation in Iraq was different from what currently obtains in Ivory Coast, the fiasco and current hellish condition of Iraq who are worse of now than they were under saddam just proves my point about the futility of armed intervention. One could argue that if the Military might of The US and Britain could not do a clean Job in Iraq. Don't expect anything different from a West African Force which much less military capability (to put it lightly).

Beside I did say that even though it was a slow process and might take time. Its still the best and most realistic way to get gbagbo out compared to military intervention.

morpheus24:

Its time for ECOMOG to act as a regional bloc and stamp out this useless cling to Power by these neaderthal leaders who have no concept of democratic progress of any sort. For the sake of a continuation of democratic principles Gbagbo needs to be unseated.

What has Gbagbo done in government to warrant his continous support. Nothing. A stagnated economy simply implementing IMF programs and borrowing money left, right and center to prop their economy up.

This squabble sets a bad precedence for the rest of West African leaders when they know they can get away with such devious acts. If I were still in the army I would have joined up to go take out that buffoon. How many troops does Ivory Coast have and how long will they survive if they don't recieve pay or weapons. Baring the notorious Russia who go give them weapon and with which money will they pay. Liberia and sierra leone at least had diamonds, wetin Ivory cost get

Its time for some whoop azz.  "Esprit de corp".

I hear comments like this alot and it makes me laugh because people just talk without even stopping to think about how realistic their proposal is.
Even if there is a will for a military intervention of Ivory Coast. Ecomog just dont have the capacity to sustain such an intervention to a reasonable conclusion. Invading a foreign country with a standing army is not a piece of cake. The best approach is a touch and go approach. Go in (within 2 weeks - a month) get the job done and be out of there. and I can assure u Ecomog just dont have the logistic, or military hardware needed for a touch and go operation how many of your troops are trained in Urban warfare? Remember that even though Gbagbo lost the Election he still had 45% of the votes, which means almost half the country is behind him and I can assure you a large part of the 45% would be ready to fight for him. The most we can get is be drawn into a long drawn out war which would last years and cause more damage and also be a drain on resources.

I just can't stand when people without a scintilla of military knowledge in terms of current capacity of Nigeria or other nations, or their current weapons procurement regimes, can come out shouting about 'we lack the capacity'.  Ask them to mention the names of just two weapons systems at our disposal and they'll stare you blank in the face, yet they just know we ''lack the capacity''. Compound buffoons.

@ a point we jus have to stop blaming d west for all our problems including our flat tires.
If this man was not sure of winning, he shouldn't have held d election in d first place. He shud have just sat tight, post poning it in d process, but he did it and lost so he has to leave. Can u jus imagine d signal this sends to other african countries going for elections?

bigrovar:

I hear comments like this alot and it makes me laugh because people just talk without even stopping to think about how realistic their proposal is.
Even if there is a will for a military intervention of Ivory Coast.[s] Ecomog just dont have the capacity to sustain such an intervention to a reasonable conclusion. Invading a foreign country with a standing army is not a piece of cake. The best approach is a touch and go approach. Go in (within 2 weeks - a month) get the job done and be out of there. and I can assure u Ecomog just dont have the logistic, or military hardware needed for a touch and go operation how many of your troops are trained in Urban warfare?[/s] Remember that even though Gbagbo lost the Election he still had 45% of the votes, which means almost half the country is behind him and I can assure you a large part of the 45% would be ready to fight for him. The most we can get is be drawn into a long drawn out war which would last years and cause more damage and also be a drain on resources.

What is all these hype about Gbagbo being militarily strong to stand ECOMOG.the pressure here is on Gbagbo and overthrowning him is the objective.
was it not the same ECOMOG that fought in Liberia and brought the war to a logical conclusion before diplomacy was re-inroduced to solve the issue politically ?

Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere

.until we Africans learn to cordinate our affairs by ourselves,then,we can defeat any interference from external aggressors.
i'm not just happy with western interference in African affairs.

Jen33:

I just can't stand when people without a scintilla of military knowledge in terms of current capacity of Nigeria or other nations, or their current weapons procurement regimes, can come out shouting about 'we lack the capacity'.  Ask them to mention the names of just two weapons systems at our disposal and they'll stare you blank in the face, yet they just know we ''lack the capacity''. Compound buffoons.

It is people who really have nothing to offer in a conversation that haul insults. I do have something to offer so I will not insult you or call u names


Under the adminstration of (OBJ) the government then ask the Military Professional Resources Initiative (M.P.R.1) to perform an audit of the Nigeria's Military. It discovered that 75 percent of the army's equipment was not in operational. with 22 MIG-21 and 15 Jaguar fighter jets grounded. and only 2 of the eight C-130 Transport planes where in operation. And although the Navy had 19 Admirals it had only 9 seaworthy ships. It also found most of the infrastructure of the armed forces was in a deplorable condition.

I have read the report released by the Nigerian Army on the mission on libraria and sierra Leone maybe if u find time to read it you would know that even though we have brave men in services, the state of our combat readiness is not as good as many of us imagined. I mean things like basic lack of battle craft expedients like maps, intelligence and communication equipments. expired bullets. The NAF lacked both attack and transport / evacuation helicopters. It lacked sufficient C-130 aircraft too which would have proved invaluable to NIGCON for the purpose of medical evacuation (Medevac), re-supply and insertion of troops to critical areas. The army’s armour and artillery units on the ground also lacked sufficient rocket propelled grenades as well as adequate trailers and lifts for the movement of heavy guns and armaments to operation areas.

We are not talking about sophisticated precision surface to air missile systems. Just the basic stuff which would be needed for a campaign like this. We should remember that even Countries like the US still find it hard to go into a country and topple the government without hell breaking loose.

Again I am not saying it is impossible. if we put our mind and resources to it we can surely remove gbagbo. but it would not be easy or straight forward. it would be very messy and in the end (like the americans ask about iraq) we would wonder if the life of the average ivorian would just have been better if we had relied on sactions instead. the most we can get out of an armed intervention giving the capability of ecomog is a pyrrhic victory

@Bluetooth brought the example of Libraria and Sierra Leone. I would like to remind him that we went into Libraria when I was in Primary 4 I was entering University when the war ended. It was a bloody war which cost the lives of Thousands of Nigerians services men and millions of civilians. In the end we can not say the battle reached a conclusion we wanted because it only ended when Charles Taylor the strongest of the war lords was made president (Charles himself was forced out through diplomatic means to take asylum in Nigeria. hence it can be argued that what ecomog could not get charles out of libraria for 10 years, what a diplomatic settlement and pressure did in within a year. The fact that charles was under threat from a new rebel force is a moot point)

The situation in Sierra Leone was not much different. Fine we were able to wrestle power from the RUF within days and restore the government. But that was just the start of the story. Read about the war in Sierra leone and u would find out Ecomog most of the time were only able to hold a small part of Freetown while the rebels ruled the rest of the country chopping off limbs in the process of spreading their reign of terror. again ecomog could not wrap up operation there. it was not untill the UK sent 1000 commandos that hostilities where brought to an end.

I am not here to talk down or ridicule our armed forces. I am always proud of your boys and have no doubt as to their bravery. Its just that we have to apply reason and not feel that we can just match into ivory coast and chase out gbagbo. If we are to learn something from history. Things like that are not always that easy. even with the most equip army.

bigrovar:

It is people who really have nothing to offer in a conversation that haul insults. I do have something to offer so I will not insult you or call u names


Under the adminstration of (OBJ) the government then ask the Military Professional Resources Initiative (M.P.R.1) to perform an audit of the Nigeria's Military. It discovered that 75 percent of the army's equipment was not in operational. with 22 MIG-21 and 15 Jaguar fighter jets grounded. and only 2 of the eight C-130 Transport planes where in operation. And although the Navy had 19 Admirals it had only 9 seaworthy ships. It also found most of the infrastructure of the armed forces was in a deplorable condition.

I have read the report released by the Nigerian Army on the mission on libraria and sierra Leone maybe if u find time to read it you would know that even though we have brave men in services, the state of our combat readiness is not as good as many of us imagined. I mean things like basic lack of battle craft expedients like maps, intelligence and communication equipments. expired bullets. The NAF lacked both attack and transport / evacuation helicopters. It lacked sufficient C-130 aircraft too which would have proved invaluable to NIGCON for the purpose of medical evacuation (Medevac), re-supply and insertion of troops to critical areas. The army’s armour and artillery units on the ground also lacked sufficient rocket propelled grenades as well as adequate trailers and lifts for the movement of heavy guns and armaments to operation areas.

We are not talking about sophisticated precision surface to air missile systems. Just the basic stuff which would be needed for a campaign like this. We should remember that even Countries like the US still find it hard to go into a country and topple the government without hell breaking loose.

Again I am not saying it is impossible. if we put our mind and resources to it we can surely remove gbagbo. but it would not be easy or straight forward. it would be very messy and in the end (like the americans ask about iraq) we would wonder if the life of the average ivorian would just have been better if we had relied on sactions instead. the most we can get out of an armed intervention giving the capability of ecomog is a pyrrhic victory

@Bluetooth brought the example of Libraria and Sierra Leone. I would like to remind him that we went into Libraria when I was in Primary 4 I was entering University when the war ended. It was a bloody war which cost the lives of Thousands of Nigerians services men and millions of civilians. In the end we can not say the battle reached a conclusion we wanted because it only ended when Charles Taylor the strongest of the war lords was made president (Charles himself was forced out through diplomatic means to take asylum in Nigeria. hence it can be argued that what ecomog could not get charles out of libraria for 10 years, what a diplomatic settlement and pressure did in within a year. The fact that charles was under threat from a new rebel force is a moot point)

The situation in Sierra Leone was not much different. Fine we were able to wrestle power from the RUF within days and restore the government. But that was just the start of the story. Read about the war in Sierra leone and u would find out Ecomog most of the time were only able to hold a small part of Freetown while the rebels ruled the rest of the country chopping off limbs in the process of spreading their reign of terror. again ecomog could not wrap up operation there. it was not untill the UK sent 1000 commandos that hostilities where brought to an end.

I am not here to talk down or ridicule our armed forces. I am always proud of your boys and have no doubt as to their bravery. Its just that we have to apply reason and not feel that we can just match into ivory coast and chase out gbagbo. If we are to learn something from history. Things like that are not always that easy. even with the most equip army.

What happened to Ministry of Defence?

I am so sure that big amount of budget was presented to NASS and also sure that the money goes to that Empire called Ministry also.

ARMY ARRANGEMENT