Myer:


Lol you want to start another argument altogether.

This only goes back to prove that the bible is full of contradictions and inconsistencies.

Guess we'll never know which is true between Acts 9:7 and Acts 22:9.

The Act of Apostle was recorded by a disciple named Luke!

His style of writing is peculiar to that of a pharmacist, always particular with medications and specific when talking about illnesses.

Here Luke wasn't writing this story as an eyewitness of the event but as one penning down what he heard from Paul who was directly involved in the incident.

So in a nutshell, Luke is saying those with Paul were just observers of the event but they can't say specifically what happened to Paul.

They saw the light but since the one speaking from the light had nothing to do with them it never affected their sight the way it did to Paul.

They heard a voice but can't specifically say what transpired between the one speaking and Paul with whom Jesus spoke!

It's good you brought this up and i must confess that it's God's holy spirit that spur you to bring up the issue on this particular thread! John 11:49-51

The voice Jesus used in speaking with Paul was that of an angel who spoke in tongues only for the one concerned to grasp but if not Paul himself none of those traveling with him could interpret what Jesus said to Paul! 1Corinthians 14:13

God bless you!

Myer:


Why is it difficult for you and hoopernikao to accept that there were 2 different forms of tongues manifested in the scriptures? Distinctly mentioned in 1 Corinthians 13:1.

One which was human language (tongues of men) that could be understood by bystanders in their various dialects. Acts 2:6-12

And the second (tongues of angels) which no one understands except by the inspiration of the gift of interpretation? 1 Corinthians 14:2

It looks like we might have to slow down and ask ourselves some questions in order to learn or unlearn....depending what angle we're looking at.

So the question I was asking myself is, what's exactly is this unknown tongues or language of angel.

2. What or why do I need to speak language of Angels for if I'm not praying or speaking to Angels?

3. I think there's a misconception or misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the word "unknown" in 1 cor 14v2.

4. I think MuttleyLaff explained it and I also did some extraction and insertion into the whole of 1 cor 14 and its clearer to me now....

5. I did my study insertion AND ALSO extract that word "unknown" and asked questions while studying and that made the whole 1 cor 14 clearer...You might want to do same.

Cc: hoopernikao

Maximus69:
The Act of Apostle was recorded by a disciple named Luke!

His style of writing is peculiar to that of a pharmacist, always particular with medications and specific when talking about illnesses.

Here Luke wasn't writing this story as an eyewitness of the event but as one penning down what he heard from Paul who was directly involved in the incident.

So in a nutshell, Luke is saying those with Paul were just observers of the event but they can't say specifically what happened to Paul.

They saw the light but since the one speaking from the light had nothing to do with them it never affected their sight the way it did to Paul.

They heard a voice but can't specifically say what transpired between the one speaking and Paul with whom Jesus spoke!
It's good you brought this up and i must confess that it's God's holy spirit that spur you to bring up the issue on this particular thread because the voice Jesus used in speaking with Paul was that of an angel who spoke in tongues only for the one concerned to grasp but if not Paul himself none of those traveling with him could interpret what Jesus said to Paul! 1 Corinthians 14:13

God bless you!

MuttleyLaff:
"¹Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the disciples of the Lord. He approached the high priest
²and requested letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any men or women belonging to the Way, he could bring them as prisoners to Jerusalem.
³As Saul drew near to Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him.
⁴He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?”
⁵“Who are You, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” He replied.
⁶“Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
⁷The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless. They heard the voice but did not see anyone"
- Acts 9:1-7

"¹Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
²(And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)
³I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
⁴And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.
⁵As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.
⁶And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me.
⁷And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
⁸And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest.
⁹And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of Him that spake to me."
- Acts 22:1-9

Let's jazz up the conversation a little with Acts 9:7 and Acts 22:9

T'was me who brought the verses up.

You are absolutely right that it's God's holy spirit that spurred me to bring up the issue on this particular thread and have it interestingly jazzed up

Maximus69:
... the voice Jesus used in speaking with Paul was that of an angel who spoke in tongues only for the one concerned to grasp but if not Paul himself none of those traveling with him could interpret what Jesus said to Paul! 1 Corinthians 14:13

God bless you!

"²⁷Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say?
‘Father, save Me from this hour’? No, it is for this purpose that I have come to this hour.
²⁸Father, glorify Your name!” Then a voice came from heaven:
“I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.”
²⁹The crowd standing there heard it and said that it had thundered.
Others said that an angel had spoken to Him"
- John 12:27-29

Of course only Apostle Paul would have understood the voice, and this because or from the fact that, he speaks tongues/languages more than any of his contemporaries do. Often times, people like to put unfounded mysticism spin(s) on things they don't seem to understand or what puzzles them

Anyone could be an angel, we have celestial/extra-terrestrial beings as angels and we have a terrestrial/earth based being aka human beings as angels. Angels are messengers, are anyone sent out do do the bidding of God or to deliver message(s), announcement(s), proclamation(s) et cetera. The Angel of the Lord, wrestling with Jacob, was God. The Angel of the Lord with accompanied two other angels, was God visiting Abraham. Angel of the Lord is an Avatar of God.

I expect Jesus to have communicated to Apostle Paul, in a language or spoken in tongue, possibly only him alone would understand

1/ What sort of angel voice would this be that Jesus allegedly spoke with?
2/ Why couldn't it be just a simple, nondescript, ordinary and normal Jesus voice?
3/ Was the voice at John 12:28, that said: "“I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.”" spoken IN AN ANGEL VOICE?
4/ What tongue/language does God use when personally communicating with you?

MuttleyLaff:


1/ What sort of angel voice would this be that Jesus allegedly spoke with?
2/ Why couldn't it be just a simple, nondescript, ordinary and normal Jesus voice?
3/ Was the voice at John 12:28, that said: "“I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again.”" spoken
4/ What tongue/language does God use when personally communicating with you?

(1) God is the one who gave intelligent creatures (angels or humans) the gift of speech, while angels had their own (higher than man's) humans were also given. Angels could easily grasp our own since they're superior when talking about the likeness of God because they're also spirits. Humans can't grasp their own because we are lesser beings, so Jesus spoke their language but granted only Paul the ability to discern what he said!

(2) Because those traveling along with Paul were sent on a mission 'to arrest Christians', Jesus need to communicate with Paul (his main target) in a strange language so that none of them might know Paul's next move, note that Paul was only leading the team, so after Jesus had taken Paul away from the team, the Pharisees were highly disappointed and provoked as their best trained scholar now embraced Christianity (the group they wanted dead).

(3)Of course but the understanding was only granted to his closest confidants while others just noticed that a strange voice probably that of an angel (as they reasoned) spoke with him!

(4)JW language!

MuttleyLaff:
The reason why apocrypha and pseudepigrapha books, like BoE, Jubilees, BoJ, Book of A&E, Book of Noah etcetera never and didnt make it into the 66 canon was because they were fake news. In fact, these first century, soon after Jesus' death, books started being authored and never were God inspired. The Book of Enoch,which there are three versions of it, is a perfected work and good art, of reverse engineering. The Book of Jasher, lmao, the other half of the BoE, twins spawn of Satan, that's paraded about, is not the original one mentioned in the Bible, in verses like Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18. The original BoJ (i.e. the Book of Jasher) is lost, missing AWOL. The paraded one, is a hoax, it along with the other apocrypha and pseudepigrapha books, are inflated works of the imagination. They are literary works of fantasy with not likely to be true or to have happened improbable things. It is because the books are not in fact, what they write to be, is why they aren't in the 66 books that make up the Protestant Bible. There are no authenticities, in any of the apocrypha and pseudepigrapha books.

Now, I expect some heavyweight person, like you to read the apocrypha and pseudepigrapha books, but have the good sense of able to separate the wheat from the chaff, when reading them books and not as some gullible person normally wouldn't do but rather be taken in by the books, hook, line, sinker and all.

It is true Apostle Peter, and even Jude too sef, referred to the Book of Enoch. They both did when drawing attention to false teachings and slanders permeating the body of the early believers, from the developing craze then of reading those apocrypha and pseudepigrapha books.

Apostle Peter, in his letter, first warned, then Jude in his letter, wrote saying what Apostle Peter earlier wrote about and warned against, has just happened.

Fyi Acehart, celestial beings aka extra-terrestrial aka angelic hosts of heaven are incorporeal beings. They are not composed of matter, they have no physical or material existence, so don't have physical tongues.

Let me ask you a question(s) Acehart, when God communicates with you, what language does He use? In what tongue does God communicate with you?

Of course you know my answer. Even in my dreams, God communicates with me in symbols I understand and tongues I understand.

I spoke of the angelic tongues because the Jews were really religious people and anything to make them stand out religiously, they’ll hip hop into it. The writer of Hebrews wrote extensively to them that Christ isn’t an angel. So you see how they held angels in high esteem. If it comes to angels, anything and everything will suffice.

Goshen360:


It looks like we might have to slow down and ask ourselves some questions in order to learn or unlearn....depending what angle we're looking at.

So the question I was asking myself is, what's exactly is this unknown tongues or language of angel.

2. What or why do I need to speak language of Angels for if I'm not praying or speaking to Angels?

3. I think there's a misconception or misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the word "unknown" in 1 cor 14v2.

4. I think MuttleyLaff explained it and I also did some extraction and insertion into the whole of 1 cor 14 and its clearer to me now....

5. I did my study insertion AND ALSO extract that word "unknown" and asked questions while studying and that made the whole 1 cor 14 clearer...You might want to do same.

Cc: hoopernikao

Please tell us about your study na. If you used to speak in tongues before the study, did your study solidify your belief in glossolalia or it made you do a 180 degrees turn away from it?

MuttleyLaff:
Judah and Jedidiah weren't ever MVPs to me. Its the meaning of the two names that I am drawn to, not that they are MVPs.

Do you know that the main character in the story about Joseph and his brothers was Judah. If those events were made into a movie, the title would be “Redemption”. Only a trained eye would see that Joseph wasn’t the main character.

Goshen360:


It looks like we might have to slow down and ask ourselves some questions in order to learn or unlearn....depending what angle we're looking at.

So the question I was asking myself is, what's exactly is this unknown tongues or language of angel.

2. What or why do I need to speak language of Angels for if I'm not praying or speaking to Angels?

3. I think there's a misconception or misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the word "unknown" in 1 cor 14v2.

4. I think MuttleyLaff explained it and I also did some extraction and insertion into the whole of 1 cor 14 and its clearer to me now....

5. I did my study insertion AND ALSO extract that word "unknown" and asked questions while studying and that made the whole 1 cor 14 clearer...You might want to do same.

Cc: hoopernikao

Mind sharing your new epiphany?

Maximus69:


The Act of Apostle was recorded by a disciple named Luke!

His style of writing is peculiar to that of a pharmacist, always particular with medications and specific when talking about illnesses.

Here Luke wasn't writing this story as an eyewitness of the event but as one penning down what he heard from Paul who was directly involved in the incident.

So in a nutshell, Luke is saying those with Paul were just observers of the event but they can't say specifically what happened to Paul.

They saw the light but since the one speaking from the light had nothing to do with them it never affected their sight the way it did to Paul.

They heard a voice but can't specifically say what transpired between the one speaking and Paul with whom Jesus spoke!

It's good you brought this up and i must confess that it's God's holy spirit that spur you to bring up the issue on this particular thread! John 11:49-51

The voice Jesus used in speaking with Paul was that of an angel who spoke in tongues only for the one concerned to grasp but if not Paul himself none of those traveling with him could interpret what Jesus said to Paul! 1Corinthians 14:13

God bless you!

Maybe we need to juxtapose both verses for you to know that your interpretation is flawed.

Acts 9:7
And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

Acts 22:9
And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

The contradiction is inexcusable sir.
He was not speaking of understanding here.
As you rightly said, Luke was a medical expert. Makes you question his attention to details though.

He said they heard a voice in Acts 9:7 but then said they did not hear a voice in Acts 22:9

He was not in any of these verses referring to their comprehension of the voice but that they did not hear the voice at all in Acts 22:9.

This brings to mind the baptism of Christ, where he saw the heaven open and the voice of God saying he is truly the Son in whom he is pleased. Yet only Christ heard it and no one else, maybe only John the baptist. And several other divine communication between God and Christ.

Although I'm still trying to understand why you decided to compare me to Caiaphas.lol come on, am I that bad?
They say God can speak through any vessel. He even spoke through a donkey right?

Acehart:


I’d like to speak about the “tongues of angels”. I had written that the synagogue in Corinth essentially read the Tanakh - the Pentateuch, the Prophets and the Writings. These Hebrew texts weren’t written in Gentiles languages; they were exclusively written in Jewish tongues. Some of the books didn’t make it to our Bible but we see someone like Peter referring to the Book of Enoch, one of the apocrypha.

Just for information: Angelic tongues referred to sung praise in Second Temple period Jewish books. Songs of the Sabbath Sacrifice is the principal source for angelic tongues. The Songs describe worship around the throne of God in the heavenly realms. Reference is made to angelic tongues. Throughout the thirteen songs there is everything ranging from accounts of how the angels lead their prayer service in the temple on high to detailed descriptions of the inner throne room where the presence of God and the other god-like beings reside.

In 1 Corinthians 14:7, Paul speaks of a “stringed” instrument - the harp. In one of the sources of angelic tongues hymn books, The pseudepigraphical Testament of Job, Job gives one of his daughters a stringed instrument. In verse 15, he speaks of “singing with the spirit, and singing with the mind”; and giving thanks in verse 17. (Psalms of singing and thanksgiving tongues are sections of the Songs of the Sabbath Sacrifice)

If there was a deep yearning by the Gentiles to display the “spiritual gift“ of knowing the angelic tongue or the Hebrew tongue illustration of how Angels speak rather, would not the meaning verse 1 Corinthians 14:23 be clearer as all the citizens of Corinth who were members in the church at Corinth all speak in Jewish tongue and a fellow citizen (an unbeliever) enters the assembly and see such a manifestation and declare his fellow citizens mad?

You're taking this too deep.

One thing we need to understand here is that the gift of tongues and interpretation being referred to here are not learnt or studied from what we see in the scriptures.

In fact the vessels used have no idea, their own understanding of the tongues they speak or interprete is unfruitful.

It is meant to be a gift and an utterance inspired by the Holyspirit. That is what makes it a spiritual gift in the first place.

Acehart:


I agree with you with regards to the bolden. What Paul was differentiating in the tongues of Chapter 12:1-3, and that of chapter 12:10 is the former was not a tool for proclaiming Christ’s gospel; the latter was a tool for the ministers to declare the gospel.

I’d like to ask this:

1. Are the unbelievers in Chapter 14 the Jews who were in the synagogues in Gentile territories (as the book of Acts show that those who weren’t open to believing the gospel were the Jews)?

2. If Paul had in mind the unbelieving Gentiles, what sort of tongues would the believing Gentiles manifest for the perplexity of the unbelieving Gentiles?

These are questions we can only speculate to. We were not told the demographic of those who believed but it is understandable that a sizeable number would be both the Jews and the Gentiles.

2. Tongues as a sign to unbelievers is meant to be in the language they understand, otherwise it makes no sense to them and they call it madness. Both 1 Corinthians 14 and Acts 2 corroborate this.

Myer:


These are questions we can only speculate to. We were not told the demographic of those who believed but it is understandable that a sizeable number would be both the Jews and the Gentiles.

2. Tongues as a sign to unbelievers is meant to be in the language they understand, otherwise it makes no sense to them and they call it madness. Both 1 Corinthians 14 and Acts 2 corroborate this.

Good morning. Trust you had a nice rest. Your summary is perfect.

Acehart:


Good morning. Trust you had a nice rest. Your summary is perfect.

Good morning sire, yes I did. Woke up to a cool rainy morning. Still glued to the bed as I am typing.

Happy Holidays.

Myer:


Maybe we need to juxtapose both verses for you to know that your interpretation is flawed.

Acts 9:7
And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

Acts 22:9
And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.

The contradiction is inexcusable sir.
He was not speaking of understanding here.
As you rightly said, Luke was a medical expert. Makes you question his attention to details though.

He said they heard a voice in Acts 9:7 but then said they did not hear a voice in Acts 22:9

He was not in any of these verses referring to their comprehension of the voice but that they did not hear the voice at all in Acts 22:9.

This brings to mind the baptism of Christ, where he saw the heaven open and the voice of God saying he is truly the Son in whom he is pleased. Yet only Christ heard it and no one else, maybe only John the baptist. And several other divine communication between God and Christ.

Although I'm still trying to understand why you decided to compare me to Caiaphas.lol come on, am I that bad?
They say God can speak through any vessel. He even spoke through a donkey right?

Please how do you comprehend this when a Yoruba man say~

Mi o gbo nkan to nso

loosely translated

I don't hear what he's saying

Of course what this means

I don't UNDERSTAND what he is saying
That doesn't mean he never heard anything!

I could recollect back in school when one of my mates asked our English teacher (Briton) "do you hear Yoruba?"

Mr Franz responded enthusiastically "Yes"

The girl spoke Yoruba and asked Mr Franz to translate, surprisingly he said "i heard what you said but you never asked if i understand the language!

So don't forget that the writers only had information to pass across to us, we are to bring it home by meditating on similar occurences in our own environment to grasp what exactly they meant by those writings!

Maximus69:


Please how do you comprehend this when a Yoruba man say~

Mi o gbo nkan to nso

loosely translated

I don't hear what he's saying

Of course what this means

I don't UNDERSTAND what he is saying
That doesn't mean he never heard anything!

I could recollect back in school when one of my mates asked our English teacher (Briton) "do you hear Yoruba?"

Mr Franz responded enthusiastically "Yes"

The girl spoke Yoruba and asked Mr Franz to translate, surprisingly he said "i heard what you said but you never asked if i understand the language!

So don't forget that the writers only had information to pass across to us, we are to bring it home by meditating on similar occurences in our own environment to grasp what exactly they meant by those writings!

Actually in yoruba there is a difference.

Mi o gbo could be interpreted as I didnt hear you or I didn't understand you.

But I heard a voice but I did not understand in Yoruba is;

Mo gbo ohun sugbon ko ye mi.

You see how these are 2 distinct scenarios?

Don't try to interprete the scriptures to suit your meaning.
Interprete what the scripture itself means.

It is obviously an inexcusable contradiction.

There's more if you care to see.

MuttleyLaff:


Let's jazz up the conversation a little with Acts 9:7 and Acts 22:9

Acts 22:9 And those who were with me saw the light, to be sure, but did not understand the voice of the One who was speaking to me.

Acts 9:7 The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

These are what I observed:

1. Paul and his escorts heard the voice.
2. Only Paul understood the voice.
3. Paul conversed with the One with the voice in a language Paul understood.

Points 1 and 2, would be the points you would want us to speak about. Firstly, Paul and his escorts were not saved men. Secondly, Paul’s understanding only came as a privilege so that he would not say, ‘my righteousness bought the privilege’. This privilege to let one in and cast the others out is a mystery. It seems to me that the escorts heard the language of the voice but didn’t understand the message; I say this because the same destination the voice ordered Paul to go to, is the same destination the escorts led Paul to without hesitation.

1 Corinthians 1:18: For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

I have quoted this verse because the misunderstanding of the escorts may not have arisen because the speech of the One with the voice was rendered in a foreign tongue but because the message didn’t sound reasonable to them. The only part they could fathom was the part when Paul spoke and the voice said, “Get up and go on into Damascus, and there you will be told of all that has been appointed for you to do.” I’m almost sure that the privilege of understanding came to them when instruction was given to Paul in plain language - which they also heard.

Goshen360:


It looks like we might have to slow down and ask ourselves some questions in order to learn or unlearn....depending what angle we're looking at.

So the question I was asking myself is, what's exactly is this unknown tongues or language of angel.

2. What or why do I need to speak language of Angels for if I'm not praying or speaking to Angels?

3. I think there's a misconception or misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the word "unknown" in 1 cor 14v2.

4. I think MuttleyLaff explained it and I also did some extraction and insertion into the whole of 1 cor 14 and its clearer to me now....

5. I did my study insertion AND ALSO extract that word "unknown" and asked questions while studying and that made the whole 1 cor 14 clearer...You might want to do same.

Cc: hoopernikao

2.) The first thing we should ask is what language did angels speak before the creation of humans. Certainly not human language which came to be in this recent Adamic age. Does this mean we can't hear them in our own language? No. But it does mean after coming down to our level to communicate, they would return to their standard language in heaven in keeping with their nativity.
Now, understand that we have been made sharers in the Holy Spirit hence tasting(because it's only a small measure, more like an imperfect idea) of powers of the age to come(Heb6:5) or of the divine nature(2Pet1:4). Our spirits are the dimension of our being currently carrying this Divine Image/Character as his own nature while our souls retain our corrupt human nature(the flesh). Gal5:17
The concept of the gifts in 1Cor12 is that they are MANIFESTATIONS of the spirit(1Cor12:7), hence a physical expression of your spirit's nature- things that can never be done by your human nature. Everytime your spirit manifests, its like getting freedom from your flesh which is always in expression and subduing it. It's a victory/liberation for it.
The word of knowledge is like the hearing or seeing (if in visions) of your spirit. The word of wisdom similar but with the understanding hence also expressing it's brain power. Gifts of healing are the expression of divine power in your spirit, also resident in angels to restore creation. So also tongues is the speaking of your spirit in its own native divine language while translation of tongues and prophecy is going further than that to speak God's divine words, not in the spirit's native divine language but like we would hear angels, in our human language for others' sake, in the spirit of true love.
All these are a win for your spirit over the flesh.

3.)We seem to be back-pedalling. All these questions were already treated in my previous posts on here.
I said from the onset(https://www.nairaland.com/5860057/should-speak-tongues-right/4#89700832?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C9147324460), there's nothing like unknown tongues. It's either known to God(and angels) or men. The word unknown was added by the translators. But removing it wouldn't change any point I've already made on this thread.

4. I don't think Muttleylaff has explained anything that addresses the real problems on ground. What he clearly did though, like he's done to me in another thread, was evade two simple questions I asked that if answered will help clear up 1Cor14. I was then hoping Acehart would answer it when he also quoted me but well, he got stuck trying to pick whose soprano is better between MC and Satan, lol. Apart from cricket, they seem to be learning a lot from each other, lol. (Easy, easy, Mutt, that's with an "innocent" snarky chuckle, like from Muttley the dastardly dog o, to lighten up the atmosphere, lol)
These were the harmless questions.

You said so much while avoiding my clear questions.
1.) If were all gathered like as now in person, discussing this issue in fellowship in English. What does God gain in giving Acehart a Korean tongue if no one here including Ace understands it. Couldn't He have received the prayer/praise in Acehart's native(English) language. Why change from native to Korean if none understands Korean.
2.) If at least any e.g. hooper alone understands Korean, then we have scenario A, where God gave the Korean tongue because He was sending a message to hooper.Tell me then, why in scenario A above, Paul would advise thatif none can interpret from Korean-English, Acehart should keep silence and no longer speak the word for hooper who understands Korean and would have been blessed as Paul advised in 1Cor14:28 and all through, to keep silence?

So if you answer 1 and 2, you would see that they both can't be the situation Paul was addressing, hence with all other indication in 1Cor14, like that even the speaker's mind is unfruitful (v14) and all, Paul was speaking of non-human tongues which profits NONE except the speaker's spirit( and not mind btw)

You also ignored what I said about the sign of tongues to unbelievers which clearly shows that it is not to be understood by humans. Don't skip these.

Btw, Mutt, that was a really funny meme as usual with you, laughed hard. But I'm yet to know what "shalaye" means. You must be a Yoruba, I guess cos that's definitely Yoruba language.

Hoopernikao, you pointed out that Myer, (in the spirit of humility) has changed his initial stance on 1Cor14 being understandable tongues for gentiles and now calls them non-human tongues but you are yourself yet to accept that there are also human tongues as in Acts2 and several believers' experience today.
How do you ever plan to reconcile the scriptures without accepting? Just do it already, nobody is holding you down. Show us your whole theology on tongues and then maybe we will agree with you. We're not going to all agree with you before you can do this. Having established that 1Cor14 is non-human language, kindly show us what you wanna do with 1Cor13:1, since I've already shown that Paul listed ONLY gifts from 1Cor12 in 1Cor13:1-3 without a single hyperbole, like Mutt would believe.

Myer:


Actually in yoruba there is a difference.

Mi o gbo could be interpreted as I didnt hear you or I didn't understand you.

But I heard a voice but I did not understand in Yoruba is;

Mo gbo ohun sugbon ko ye mi.

You see how these are 2 distinct scenarios?

Don't try to interprete the scriptures to suit your meaning.
Interprete what the scripture itself means.

It is obviously an inexcusable contradiction.

There's more if you care to see.

Of course you need such thorough clarification when relating an event before a stranger who might scrutinize your report!

Imagine if you're asked to relate an incident before your close friends, how do you compare such with when you're asked to do the same before a laws court where whatever you say could be used as evidence against you!

So you're reading with a totally different mindset from that of those who love to gain insight as to it's practical application.

The writers penned down those records for their fellow believers, of course a critic will continue to look for flaws just as the policeman asked to interrogate you is not interested in the lesson you're trying to pass across to your family and friends, but to finds things for which to nail you!

So the book of Act (Bible) was written by our first century Christian brother, we fully understand the message and we know how to apply it appropriately that's why we could speak the same language/tongue globally to make LOVE, JOY and PEACE reign within our global family!

God bless you!

Maximus69:


Of course you need such thorough clarification when relating an event before a stranger who might scrutinize your report!

Imagine if you're asked to relate an incident before your close friends, how do you compare such with when you're asked to do the same before a laws court where whatever you say could be used as evidence against you!

So you're reading with a totally different mindset from that of those who love to gain insight as to it's practical application.

The writers penned down those records for their fellow believers, of course a critic will continue to look for flaws just as the policeman asked to interrogate you is not interested in the lesson you're trying to pass across to your family and friends, but to finds things for which to nail you!

So the book of Act (Bible) was written by our first century Christian brother, we fully understand the message and we know how to apply it appropriately that's why we could speak the same language/tongue globally to make LOVE, JOY and PEACE reign within our global family!

God bless you!

How can I did not here any voice mean I did not understand?

That means they did not even hear the sound talkless of understanding it.

Any way, I can't impose my interpretation on you. Everyone has their choice.

Finallydead:
.

So also tongues is the speaking of your spirit in its own native divine language while translation of tongues and prophecy is going further than that to speak God's divine words, not in the spirit's native divine language but like we would hear angels, in our human language for others' sake, in the spirit of true love.
All these are a win for your spirit over the flesh.

I was then hoping Acehart would answer it when he also quoted me but well, he got stuck trying to pick whose soprano is better between MC and Satan, lol.

.

Hmmm. Life is complex o. How Paul changed from a natural born killer to a preacher is the eight wonder of world. What we know today and stand for, is changed in a thinking of an eye the next day; so rigidity isn’t a condition in “multiple degrees of freedom” problems.

Anyway, you said: “So also tongues is the speaking of your spirit in its own native divine language“. I want to imagine that the witch at Endor didn’t play a fast one on King Saul; what language did disembodied Samuel speak in again? I heard someone next door shout, “TONGUES!”

“If“ condition: Few hours ago, I tried to show that “angelic tongues” or “tongues of angels” was a mode (method) of prayer, praise and thanksgiving in Books that detailed how angels did their things in heaven and how many Jews craved for this model of prayers in the quest to communicate with God. (Today, we have many prayer books (Say-after-me books) that many people cherish above the scriptures, books that give orders to angels and nature, and also binds demons).

In my cricket exposition, I stated that as long as the object of discussion is “unknown” whether in known or unknown tongues, it doesn’t profit anyone apart from the person speaking. This was Paul’s emphasis of the non-evangelistic tongue practiced in c12:1-3 in contrast to the one that aid the ministers in the propagation of the gospel (c12:10-30). These angelic tongues books were in essence Say-after-me books; so as the angels spoke, this church wanted to do the same. Of course the books were written in human language. So, as against interpretation or prophecy concerning the mysteries of Christ, this church were interested in “non-scriptural prayers” alone. (Don’t we see that in many churches today?)

Paul’s main objective was this: “For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified”. If the gift of tongues, whether angelic tongue or earthly tongue, doesn’t minister Christ’s atonement to both the saved and the unsaved, it should cease.

Cc: Myer

Acehart:


Hmmm. Life is complex o. How Paul changed from a natural born killer to a preacher is the eight wonder of world. What we know today and stand for, is changed in a thinking of an eye the next day; so rigidity isn’t a condition in “multiple degrees of freedom” problems.

Anyway, you said: “So also tongues is the speaking of your spirit in its own native divine language“. I want to imagine that the witch at Endor didn’t play a fast one on King Saul; what language did disembodied Samuel speak in again? I heard someone next door shout, “TONGUES!”

“If“ condition: Few hours ago, I tried to show that “angelic tongues” or “tongues of angels” was a mode (method) of prayer, praise and thanksgiving in Books that detailed how angels did their things in heaven and how many Jews craved for this model of prayers in the quest to communicate with God. (Today, we have many prayer books (Say-after-me books) that many people cherish above the scriptures, books that give orders to angels and nature, and also binds demons).

In my cricket exposition, I stated that as long as the object of discussion is “unknown” whether in known or unknown tongues, it doesn’t profit anyone apart from the person speaking. This was Paul’s emphasis of the non-evangelistic tongue practiced in c12:1-3 in contrast to the one that aid the ministers in the propagation of the gospel (c12:10-30). These angelic tongues books were in essence Say-after-me books; so as the angels spoke, this church wanted to do the same. Of course the books were written in human language. So, as against interpretation or prophecy concerning the mysteries of Christ, this church were interested in “non-scriptural prayers” alone. (Don’t we see that in many churches today?)

Paul’s main objective was this: “For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified”. If the gift of tongues, whether angelic tongue or earthly tongue, doesn’t minister Christ’s atonement to both the saved and the unsaved, it should cease.

Cc: Myer

Acehart, just try answering my two previous questions. And while you're at it, try to ponder why the speaker's mind is unfruitful while his spirit is speaking(1Cor14:14). It'll really help you.
I'm guessing you think that in John's revelation, the angels he heard at the throne all spoke in native hebrew, right? But when english-speaking people today hear them, these angels suddenly switch to English, huh, Acey?
Try to think about that. Why do we all hear the proceedings IN HEAVEN in our native human language? Does it mean they keep switching from one human language to another in heaven?

Finallydead:

Acehart, please answer my two questions. And while you're at it, try to explain why the speaker's mind is unfruitful while his spirit is speaking(1Cor14:14).
I'm guessing you think that in John's revelation, the angels he heard at the throne all spoke in native hebrew, right?
But when english-speaking people today hear them, they suddenly switch to English, huh, Acey?
Try to think about that.

I have answered this question before.

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

May I list all the spiritual gifts; they are:

1. Word of wisdom.
2. Word of knowledge.
3. Faith.
4. Gifts of healings.
5. Miracles.
6. Prophecy.
7. Distinguishing between spirits.
8. Tongues.

All these work together as 1 Corinthians 12:12-15 says, right? Not one of them is head knowledge or learned. Would I be right to say, ‘if I pray in tongues, miracles would occur?’ When miracles occurred, was my mind fruitful or did my mind understand how it came to be? Surely, I may not understand that what Paul meant by “my spirit” was indeed “my spiritual gift”; but if I prophesied (Interpret), and unknowingly I started speaking in the native tongue, was my mind fruitful or perceive that I spoke in the native tongue? Therefore, whatever gift I manifest, whether gift of healings or word of wisdom, my mind is unfruitful because the mind works with memory and pattern of thought, and these gifts don’t need these activation nerves in my brain to bring them forth. However, whatever prayer or speech one makes and an Amen should be elicited, it must be done in intelligible language even if I need to heal to the man bound in an infirmity for 38 years.

Revelation 7:9-10:

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."

Concerning John and his revelation, Revelation 7 would put into perspective what this spectator heard. The psalmist said: “The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge” What language of the heavens and the sky did David learn? Definitely not Hebrew, but his “step-down transformer“ delivered the message to him in the language (voice) of his mind - Hebrew. John heard all the tribes and tongues of the earth say in unison, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb“. How did he understand Jukun tongue? How did he understand Calabari? He wouldn’t have understood if there wasn’t a translator or in the spirit, all languages are the same (no difference between angelic tongues and human languages). If there was a translator, it would be one who would translate in the language of his mind; and he had to switch on his step-down transformer so that he could translate to the tongues of the seven churches.

Acehart:


I have answered this question before.

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

May I list all the spiritual gifts; they are:

1. Word of wisdom.
2. Word of knowledge.
3. Faith.
4. Gifts of healings.
5. Miracles.
6. Prophecy.
7. Distinguishing between spirits.
8. Tongues.

All these work together as 1 Corinthians 12:12-15 says, right? Not one of them is head knowledge or learned. Would I be right to say, ‘if I pray in tongues, miracles would occur?’ When miracles occurred, was my mind fruitful or did my mind understand how it came to be? Surely, I may not understand that what Paul meant by “my spirit” was indeed “my spiritual gift”; but if I prophesied (Interpret), and unknowingly I started speaking in the native tongue, was my mind fruitful or perceive that I spoke in the native tongue? Therefore, whatever gift I manifest, whether gift of healings or word of wisdom, my mind is unfruitful because the mind works with memory and pattern of thought, and these gifts don’t need these activation nerves in my brain to bring them forth. However, whatever prayer or speech one makes and an Amen should be elicited, it must be done in intelligible language even if I need to heal to the man bound in an infirmity for 38 years.

Revelation 7:9-10:

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."

Concerning John and his revelation, Revelation 7 would put into perspective what this spectator heard. The psalmist said: “The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge” What language of the heavens and the sky did David learn? Definitely not Hebrew, but his “step-down transformer“ delivered the message to him in the language (voice) of his mind - Hebrew. John heard all the tribes and tongues of the earth say in unison, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb“. How did he understand Jukun tongue? How did he understand Calabari? He wouldn’t have understood if there wasn’t a translator or in the spirit, all languages are the same (no difference between angelic tongues and human languages). If there was a translator, it would be one who would translate in the language of his mind; and he had to switch on his step-down transformer so that he could translate to the tongues of the seven churches.

Fair answer @ the tongues of angels in heavenly proceedings that John heard. Now this should answer how Paul, King Saul and almost everyone else with such encounters must have heard.

But don't change Paul's context in 1Cor14, if you wanna see the whole fact. He was comparing two gifts in isolation, tongues( both with/without its partner, translation) and prophecy. Not the dynamics of all the different gifts working together. And the "spirit" doesn't mean spiritual gift, be careful to not mince words here. That's how errors fly. It means the intangible animate spirit of the prophesier(1Cor14:32)
So in that context, when the spirit of the speaker speaks this tongues(in isolation of other gifts, he meant). The only reason the understanding of the speaker is unfruitful is because the words were not human as also could not be understood by the congregation without translation.

Now if you go back to answering the two questions I asked Mutt up this page, and the sign of tongues I earlier spoke of, you should get it all clearly. But if you won't, then I'll wait till the Lord opens your eyes. These things are easier to understand when demonstrated practically by His Spirit rather than by words.

Myer:


How can I did not here any voice mean I did not understand?

That means they did not even hear the sound talkless of understanding it.

Any way, I can't impose my interpretation on you. Everyone has their choice.

You forgot that this reports weren't made with comparison as you're doing now!

@ Act 9:7 it was the report that Luke heard probably from third party who might have narrated what happened to Paul when he was led about.

@ Act 22:9 it was Paul himself relating his personal experience as been directly involved.

For instance, how do you expect soldiers to explain such when their commander is with them?
OK you expect me to say

"oga i heard the voice but i can't see the person who attacked you, shey?"

My friend, we'll rather say we never heard anything to save our heads because if the commander should report what happened to him in our company, we are in hot as in HOT soup!

So to save ourselves we will all deny hearing anyone but the light which nobody could question us for because it happened during daylight!

That's what those with Paul will continue saying, but during a friendly chat they will disclose that they actually heard but can't explain what the voice meant!

Maximus69:


You forgot that this reports weren't made with comparison as you're doing now!

@ Act 9:7 it was the report that Luke heard probably from third party who might have narrated what happened to Paul when he was led about.

@ Act 22:9 it was Paul himself relating his personal experience as been directly involved.

For instance, how do you expect soldiers to explain such when their commander is with them?
OK you expect me to say

"oga i heard the voice but i can't see the person who attacked you, shey?"

My friend, we'll rather say we never heard anything to save our heads because if the commander should report what happened to him in our company, we are in hot as in HOT soup!

So to save ourselves we will all deny hearing anyone but the light which nobody could question us for because it happened during daylight!

That's what those with Paul will continue saying, but during a friendly chat they will disclose that they actually heard but can't explain what the voice meant!

Once again, that's simply your own explanation.

Your explanation is flawed again because it was not the soldiers who were recounting the event but Paul himself in both scenarios.
Why will he say the soldiers heard the voice and later say they did not hear the voice?

The bible unarguably literally contradicted itself.

Myer:


Once again, that's simply your own explanation.

The bible unarguably literally contradicted itself.

Your own opinion Sir!

Maximus69:


Your own opinion Sir!

I just edited my response.

Your explanation is flawed because it was not the soldiers who were recounting the event here but the same Paul who stated that they heard a voice in Acts 9:7 also stating that they did not hear the voice in Acts 22:9.

But I understand you will go to any length to try to defend the bible. But would do the same for other religious books such as the Quran if they made they same goof?

Goshen360:
It looks like we might have to slow down and ask ourselves some questions in order to learn or unlearn....depending what angle we're looking at.

So the question I was asking myself is, what's exactly is this unknown tongues or language of angel.

2. What or why do I need to speak language of Angels for if I'm not praying or speaking to Angels?

3. I think there's a misconception or misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the word "unknown" in 1 cor 14v2.

4. I think MuttleyLaff explained it and I also did some extraction and insertion into the whole of 1 cor 14 and its clearer to me now....

5. I did my study insertion AND ALSO extract that word "unknown" and asked questions while studying and that made the whole 1 cor 14 clearer...You might want to do same.

Cc: hoopernikao

Finallydead:
2.) The first thing we should ask is what language did angels speak before the creation of humans. Certainly not human language which came to be in this recent Adamic age.

The first thing you need to realise, come to terms with and truthfully understand, is that speaking in tongues/languages, of course implying in an audible or vocalised manner is a function or dependence of the physical organ, the tongue.

Now, fyi, I'll proceed to try and give some explanation on the relationship between language and tongue, so you get the perspective on them correctly.

Language, a noun, is body of words and set of methods of combining the words to make sentences using grammar in such a way they are easily understood by hear(s) It of course is a form of communication.

About tongue, it too, is a noun, but however, it is usually is a small red flexible muscular organ in the mouth, that is used to move food around in the mouth, for tasting food with, for swallowing food, for spitting out sputum, phlegm et cetera. Finallydead, the description of the tongue and its function doesnt end there because interestingly, this same tongue is a wind instrument, and it is used to move around inside the mouth, into various positions to modify the flow of air coming out from the lungs, and in this way, it is able to produce different sounds in speech to articulate a word(s) note by starting the air in the mouth, with a tap of the tongue.

Let's now bring this home with explaining what "speaking in tongues/languages" is all about. "Speaking in tongues/languages" in the context of the thread topic heading and in a simple easy, direct and straightforward manner, is using the small red flexible muscular organ in the mouth, tongue, to speak with.

When used as verbs, language means the action of communicating with the use of words in a structured, capable of being understood and conventional way, whereas tongue, when equally used as a verb means the action of using the small red flexible muscular organ in the mouth, tongue, to speak with.

Are we now clear on, the distinctions and relationships between the nouns language and tongue also "speaking in tongues" and "speaking in languages"?

Finallydead:
Does this mean we can't hear them in our own language? No. But it does mean after coming down to our level to communicate, they would return to their standard language in heaven in keeping with their nativity.

Celestial being/extra-terrestrial beings aka angels are corporeal, meaning there is no physical material existence to them, implying that they have no small red flexible muscular organ tongue in no mouth, to speak with and most importantly means that their standard means of communication in heaven in keeping with their nativity is thought transference. They have faculty of perceiving things by means other than our own physical known senses

Finallydead:
[s]Now, understand that we have been made sharers in the Holy Spirit hence tasting (because it's only a small measure, more like an imperfect idea) of powers of the age to come (Heb 6:5) or of the divine nature(2 Pet 1:4). Our spirits are the dimension of our being currently carrying this Divine Image/Character as his own nature while our souls retain our corrupt human nature(the flesh). Gal 5:17

The concept of the gifts in 1 Cor 12 is that they are MANIFESTATIONS of the spirit(1 Cor12:7), hence a physical expression of your spirit's nature- things that can never be done by your human nature. Everytime your spirit manifests, its like getting freedom from your flesh which is always in expression and subduing it. It's a victory/liberation for it.

The word of knowledge is like the hearing or seeing (if in visions) of your spirit. The word of wisdom similar but with the understanding hence also expressing it's brain power. Gifts of healing are the expression of divine power in your spirit, also resident in angels to restore creation. So also tongues is the speaking of your spirit in its own native divine language while translation of tongues and prophecy is going further than that to speak God's divine words, not in the spirit's native divine language but like we would hear angels, in our human language for others' sake, in the spirit of true love.

All these are a win for your spirit over the flesh.[/s]

What a total waste of time and space for a gift of speaking in tongues, that is the lowest of the lowest there is on the hierarchy ladder of spiritual gifts.

Finallydead:
3.)We seem to be back-pedalling. All these questions were already treated in my previous posts on here.
I said from the onset(https://www.nairaland.com/5860057/should-speak-tongues-right/4#89700832?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C9147324460), there's nothing like unknown tongues. It's either known to God (and angels) or men. The word unknown was added by the translators. But removing it wouldn't change any point I've already made on this thread.

Launching on the insertion of the word "unknown" is just a diversionary tactic, used trying to draw attention away from the principal concern, that if you speak to me in a tongue/language to me, that though I might hear you but I don't understand a thing you're saying then it means its foreign and unknown to me

I did stress that the insertion of "unknown" for added for the benefit of easily understanding the verse. This is why on Page 8, I gave instances and asked hoopernikao, to paste here Genesis 1:7, 9-12, 16, 18, 20-21, 25, 27 and 29-31 in the original text form with the insertions/additions/italics, so to see whether anyone will be able to make sense of them with the benefit of the insertions.

Will you Finallydead do the honours to pasting Genesis 1:7, 9-12, 16, 18, 20-21, 25, 27 and 29-31 to see whether removing their insertions wouldn't change any point with them.

Finallydead:
4. I don't think Muttleylaff has explained anything that addresses the real problems on ground.

I have in excessive details and using various scenarios, explained everything and the explanations addressed the real problems on ground.

Finallydead:
What he clearly did though, like he's done to me in another thread, was evade two simple questions I asked that if answered will help clear up 1 Cor 14.

I operate an open door policy. My door is 24/7/365 days, all time "t" always wide ajar open. You know that, even without knocking, you can walk straight in. I am sure that I've at least once told you that I know what I bring to the table, so to trust me, when/if I say, I am not afraid to eat alone, meaning that I don't mind eating alone. It's better to walk alone, than with a crowd going in the wrong direction.

The two questions were that simple, I even literally responded to them with one closed

Finallydead:
I was then hoping Acehart would answer it when he also quoted me but well, he got stuck trying to pick whose soprano is better between MC and Satan, lol. Apart from cricket, they seem to be learning a lot from each other, lol. (Easy, easy, Mutt, that's with an "innocent" snarky chuckle, like from Muttley the dastardly dog o, to lighten up the atmosphere, lol)

Didn't know you're closest MC Satan fan

Finallydead:
These were the harmless questions.

You said so much while avoiding my clear questions.
1.) If were all gathered like as now in person, discussing this issue in fellowship in English. What does God gain in giving Acehart a Korean tongue if no one here including Ace understands it. Couldn't He have received the prayer/praise in Acehart's native (English) language. Why change from native to Korean if none understands Korean.

God is not a God of confusion. God is a purposeful God. God doesn't do things on the spur of the moment. Nothing God does is on impulse or without planning in advance.

Now with those factual stamped into your mind, do you now see that your scenario is non started because God in the first place, wouldn't have let it happen that Acehart speak in a Korean tongue where the speaker Acehart and none of the gathered hearers understand Korean. Besides that, God targets are the gathered attendees, and so if at all Acehart is going to speak in a foreign/unknown/different tongue, it is going to be individually or collectively one after the other in the native tongues of the attendees

Finallydead:
2.) If at least any e.g. hooper alone understands Korean, then we have scenario A, where God gave the Korean tongue because He was sending a message to hooper. Tell me then, why in scenario A above, Paul would advise that if none can interpret from Korean-English, Acehart should keep silence and no longer speak the word for hooper who understands Korean and would have been blessed as Paul advised in 1 Cor 14:28 and all through, to keep silence?

"But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God."
- 1 Corinthians 14:28

You see what the problem is here, hmm? Its your blinkers, if you remove the blinkers and read the entire chapters of 1 Corinthians, you would realise that Apostle Paul wrote the letter replying to many questions affecting the orderliness of the young emerging cosmopolitan church at Corinth. Now remember that the New Testament wasn't originally segmented into chapters and verses, meaning the exegesis and hermeneutic done on speaking in tongues and the manifestation of the spiritual via the gift of speaking in diverse tongues didn't start at 1 Corinthians 14:28

Corinth was a seaport city and because of that included people from many different countries. There was a fad, call it fashion of people trying to show off by "speaking with the tongues". Such generated a followership

The eloquence in speech, was so much admired at Corinth, that it generated admiration and/or a somewhat cult following. Go check Apollos, in Acts 18:24 and compare with 1 Corinthians 1:12 and 1 Corinthians 3:21-22 to read about this. The thing was the command of various languages, by some at Corinth was being misused and abused solely for the purposes merely designed to carnally impress. Look up 1 Corinthians 14:2, to confirm this.

It was a combination of all these teething problem of abuse and misuse that prompted Apostle Paul to issue instructions to the Corinthians in such an authoritative or dogmatic way.

Finallydead:
So if you answer 1 and 2, you would see that they both can't be the situation Paul was addressing, hence with all other indication in 1Cor14, like that even the speaker's mind is unfruitful (v14) and all, Paul was speaking of non-human tongues which profits NONE except the speaker's spirit( and not mind btw)

You also ignored what I said about the sign of tongues to unbelievers which clearly shows that it is not to be understood by humans. Don't skip these.

You are more confused than a fart let lose and caught up in the air on the production floor of a fan making factory. Smh.

Finallydead:
Btw, Mutt, that was a really funny meme as usual with you, laughed hard. But I'm yet to know what "shalaye" means. You must be a Yoruba, I guess cos that's definitely Yoruba language.

If you insist to know, in that respect, it means quit being a jerk, lmao.

Finallydead:
Hoopernikao, you pointed out that Myer, (in the spirit of humility) has changed his initial stance on 1 Cor 14 being understandable tongues for gentiles and now calls them non-human tongues but you are yourself yet to accept that there are also human tongues as in Acts 2 and several believers' experience today.
How do you ever plan to reconcile the scriptures without accepting? Just do it already, nobody is holding you down. Show us your whole theology on tongues and then maybe we will agree with you. We're not going to all agree with you before you can do this. Having established that 1 Cor 14 is non-human language, kindly show us what you wanna do with 1 Cor 13:1, since I've already shown that Paul listed ONLY gifts from 1 Cor 12 in 1 Cor 13:1-3 without a single hyperbole, like Mutt would believe.

Acehart and I, have used different means to explain how, "if" or "if" used as Conditional Particle Or Conjunction are used in grammar to make exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally

You have made me repeat myself all over again, please don't make me do it again. I dislike unnecessarily repeating myself, especially when when I have already earlier had made myself extensively clear. This has encroached on other more worthwhile things I could have done instead of going all over this again. Whatever floats your boat. If you dig in your heels that there are two languages and/or celestial speaking in tongues, please enjoy the least out of the 9 manifestations of the spiritual gift.

Acehart:
Of course you know my answer. Even in my dreams, God communicates with me in symbols I understand and tongues I understand.

It is a phenomenon known as thought transference.

It is a form of direct communication from the mind of God to your mind. It is the ability to receive thought transference from God without the use of recognised senses. Case in point, in your dreams, you were hearing anything with your ears, though you talked you weren't using that your small red flexible muscular organ in the mouth, the tongue, to speak with, lmao

Acehart:
I spoke of the angelic tongues because the Jews were really religious people and anything to make them stand out religiously, they’ll hip hop into it. The writer of Hebrews wrote extensively to them that Christ isn’t an angel. So you see how they held angels in high esteem. If it comes to angels, anything and everything will suffice.

People are known to quickly read meanings into things they don't yet understand

There are so many things the Hebrew had no concept of until when Jesus arrived and began to reveal and explains mysteries using parables

Acehart:
Acts 22:9 And those who were with me saw the light, to be sure, but did not understand the voice of the One who was speaking to me.

Acts 9:7 The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

These are what I observed:

1. Paul and his escorts heard the voice.
2. Only Paul understood the voice.
3. Paul conversed with the One with the voice in a language Paul understood.

Points 1 and 2, would be the points you would want us to speak about.

Points 1 and 2 with point #3 too will do nicely spoken about actually, lmao

Acehart:
Firstly, Paul and his escorts were not saved men

"Jesus answered,
"I tell you that if they keep quiet, the stones themselves will start shouting.""
- Luke 19:40

The Balaam's speaking donkey was not saved. The stones that Jesus said, themselves will start shouting to praise Him weren't saved, so this remark, is beside the point, so please put it aside.

Acehart:
Secondly, Paul’s understanding only came as a privilege so that he would not say, ‘my righteousness bought the privilege’. This privilege to let one in and cast the others out is a mystery. It seems to me that the escorts heard the language of the voice but didn’t understand the message; I say this because the same destination the voice ordered Paul to go to, is the same destination the escorts led Paul to without hesitation.

1 Corinthians 1:18: For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

I have quoted this verse because the misunderstanding of the escorts may not have arisen because the speech of the One with the voice was rendered in a foreign tongue but because the message didn’t sound reasonable to them.

[quote author=Acehart post=89934617]The only part they could fathom was the part when Paul spoke and the voice said, “Get up and go on into Damascus, and there you will be told of all that has been appointed for you to do.” I’m almost sure that the privilege of understanding came to them when instruction was given to Paul in plain language - which they also heard.

Apostle Paul was multi-lingual, as a Pharisee, he was learned, scholarly, well travelled and so thereby well versed in speaking in diverse tongues already

was the leader of the men. They didn't understand nada, they understood no part of all the voice. They actually were afraid, from hearing but not understanding and then from witnessing the bright light shined on Apostle Paul, see him suddenly turned into a shivering and whimpering jelly of a person, who just a few minutes before formerly was bold and audacious become blinded et cetera. They were following the lead of Apostle Paul. It was Apostle Paul who would have relayed to them the instructions he received and where he was diverted to go to

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Acehart:
Do you know that the main character in the story about Joseph and his brothers was Judah. If those events were made into a movie, the title would be “Redemption”. Only a trained eye would see that Joseph wasn’t the main character.

The main character is Yahushua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ. The give away clue, is the coats of many colours. It all started from the promise and/prophecy at Genesis 3:15. It kept getting truncated first with Abel getting murdered by his brother Cain, then God painstakingly and patiently endured until he moved from Noah to getting to Abram/Abraham.

It took around 2000 years from Abraham to the birth of the MESSIAH, then another 2000 years to date from the death of the MESSIAH. Praise God Alleluia.

Acehart:
You still haven’t told me your (new) MVPs

Judah, actually is what is right and what is wrong of Israel. Some of the qualities about Judah I like are:
His name glorifies God, He owned up to being in the wrong. He saved Joseph from being agreed and planned to be killed. Good qualities but not enough to make a MVP. Like as if my mind was read, he didn't even make it into the Faith Hall of Fame

Jedidah, the admiralty was again just sheer meaning of the name. It means "Beloved", thats how I see myself before God. Like Judah, Jedididiah doesnt to me justify classed MVP, she too, never made it into the Hebrews chapter 11 Faith Hall of Fame

Acehart:
Acts 22:9 And those who were with me saw the light, to be sure, but did not understand the voice of the One who was speaking to me.

Acts 9:7 The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one.

These are what I observed:

1. Paul and his escorts heard the voice.
2. Only Paul understood the voice.
3. Paul conversed with the One with the voice in a language Paul understood.

Points 1 and 2, would be the points you would want us to speak about.

Points 1 and 2 with point #3 too will do nicely spoken about actually, lmao

Acehart:
Firstly, Paul and his escorts were not saved men

"Jesus answered,
"I tell you that if they keep quiet, the stones themselves will start shouting.""
- Luke 19:40

The Balaam's speaking donkey was not saved. The stones that Jesus said, themselves will start shouting to praise Him weren't saved, so this remark, is beside the point, so please put it aside.

Acehart:
Secondly, Paul’s understanding only came as a privilege so that he would not say, ‘my righteousness bought the privilege’. This privilege to let one in and cast the others out is a mystery. It seems to me that the escorts heard the language of the voice but didn’t understand the message; I say this because the same destination the voice ordered Paul to go to, is the same destination the escorts led Paul to without hesitation.

1 Corinthians 1:18: For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

I have quoted this verse because the misunderstanding of the escorts may not have arisen because the speech of the One with the voice was rendered in a foreign tongue but because the message didn’t sound reasonable to them

.

Acehart:
The only part they could fathom was the part when Paul spoke and the voice said, “Get up and go on into Damascus, and there you will be told of all that has been appointed for you to do.” I’m almost sure that the privilege of understanding came to them when instruction was given to Paul in plain language - which they also heard.

Apostle Paul was multi-lingual, as a Pharisee, he was learned, scholarly, well travelled and so thereby well versed in speaking in diverse tongues already

was the leader of the men. They didn't understand nada, they understood no part of all the voice. They actually were afraid, from hearing but not understanding and then from witnessing the bright light shined on Apostle Paul, see him suddenly turned into a shivering and whimpering jelly of a person, who just a few minutes before formerly was bold and audacious become blinded et cetera. They were following the lead of Apostle Paul. It was Apostle Paul who would have relayed to them the instructions he received and where he was diverted to go to

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Acehart:
Do you know that the main character in the story about Joseph and his brothers was Judah. If those events were made into a movie, the title would be “Redemption”. Only a trained eye would see that Joseph wasn’t the main character.

The main character is Yahushua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ. The give away clue, is the coats of many colours. It all started from the promise and/prophecy at Genesis 3:15. It kept getting truncated first with Abel getting murdered by his brother Cain, then God painstakingly and patiently endured until he moved from Noah to getting to Abram/Abraham.

It took around 2000 years from Abraham to the birth of the MESSIAH, then another 2000 years to date from the death of the MESSIAH. Praise God Alleluia.

Acehart:
You still haven’t told me your (new) MVPs

Judah, actually is what is right and what is wrong of Israel. Some of the qualities about Judah I like are:
His name glorifies God, He owned up to being in the wrong. He saved Joseph from being agreed and planned to be killed. Good qualities but not enough to make a MVP. Like as if my mind was read, he didn't even make it into the Faith Hall of Fame

Jedidah, the admiralty was again just sheer meaning of the name. It means "Beloved", thats how I see myself before God. Like Judah, Jedididiah doesnt to me justify classed MVP, she too, never made it into the Hebrews chapter 11 Faith Hall of Fame