ceaser:


First it was, there is no sexual immorality but sex. Now it's there is no genuine Christian, but Christian.

Your choice of complicating simple concepts na wa o.

U are the one aggressively complicating ur life unnecessarily...Show me in the bible where God said there are true Christian's and Christians, if u cant then just keep mute.



""First it was, there is no sexual immorality but sex""

This is daft

Bahddo:
it's not about the number, but the nature. If you sleep with someone without the intention of marriage, it becomes something casual like visiting a prostitute just to satisfy your urges. That is what marriage was setup to achieve - provide a secure environment for raising kids, making it possible for everyone to have a clear line of descent and for men to take responsibility for their children as they can more easily tell which is thiers.

you seem not to understand the simplest stances. Fornication (porneia) according to the bible is all outlawed sexual activity. It is the same as sexual immorality, and even includes adultery in its broadest sense.

I said:
In other words when does a young unmarried man or woman become guilty of fornication sleeping with someone who ends up not not his/her marriage spouse? (How many people must he/she have slept with?)?
Clarification of the above:
The OT rule was that if you seduce a person (who is not bretroted to any one,) to have sex with her, then you MUST marry her for the rest of her life.

Let's assume that Mr Man later found something wrong with Miss Girl's character (or she later found to have epilepsy) and he broke up with her.

1. Is Mr Man guilty of "fornication"?
2. Is Miss Girl guilty of Fornication?
3. If Miss Girl later was to marry another man, is the other man not defrauded?
4. By the OT rule, since this girl is not a virgin anymore is she not treated as a _whore?

Bahddo:

Jewish custom is borne from the Mosaic law that states how issues of accusation of not being a virgin (when he had relations with her) should be handled (Deut 22: 13 - 19). The Mosaic law does not make it compulsory, but provides it as a basis for settling such disputes - if you are sleeping with your wife for the first time, better put cloth so if she isn't a virgin AS YOU THOUGHT, you have proof. Do you think people who performed brother-in-law marriages to bear child for a diseased relative did this 'proof of virginity' too? It's simply a case of ensuring you got what you paid for, and even if it became a Jewish custom, the law did not mandate every newly wedded to 'gift' the woman's parents that cloth. Those verses didn't even say when the parents gain possession of it (before the accusation or after? Was it given to them by their son in-law or their daughter?)

Custom is custom and law, law. It's the laws God gave that show us how he viewed matters, not what others do as a result.

Culturally, the token of virginity is presented on the wedding night to the Father of the Bride. He is the one who keeps it in case of eventualities.

Deu 22:15:
"Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity to the elders of the city in the gate:"

It is never even in the possession of the Husband or the Groom's father so that they can't say "they can't find it" or replace it with another cloth.

So, this deflates your theory that "an engaged couple could have sex as long as they will marry each other". The question then is where would they find the token of her virginity?

Summary:
By the Old Testament, the Bride is expected to be a VIRGIN on the wedding night!

Bahddo:

Funny you should quote this. This can be easily rephrased as "to avoid sleeping around, have your own legal partner."

you think the Israelite men got engaged to the Moabite women with plans to marry them? Also can you say for sure that all the men were single men? They simply had casual sex with no strings attached.

Note that it is not even sex that made God's anger blaze against them. Numbers 25: 1 - 9 clearly shows that God was angry because they bowed down to other gods (eg Ba'al) and the instruction was to kill everyone who committed idolatory (not every one who had sex) - Numbers 25: 5.

No! no!! no!!?
I quoted:
"
1Cor 7:2:
"Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."
And said:

The solution to fornication seems to be marriage and NOT to have a person you'll be having an exclusive dating relationship. "

If it means to avoid sleeping around, Paul would have written

Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own woman and let every woman have her own man" .

But no!
It says have your own legally married spouse!

There were two offences of the Israeli with the Moabites.
1. Sexual Immorality:
Jewish girls don't sleep around because they know they have to present a token of their virginity on their wedding night but the Moabite girls have no such rules hence a Jewish man can pick a girlfriend from amongst them AND be having sex with them
2. Idolatry:
Participation in idol related activities like dancing, eating and praying to the Moabites idols.

Don't forget that God's anger was doused when
Num 25:7-8:
"And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel."

Bahddo:

you don't have a marriage bed before marriage. That part only talks about married persons. It is both fornication (unlawful sex) and adultery (sex with someone else while married).

Heb 13:4:
"Marriage is honorable[b] in all[/b] , and the bed undefiled: but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."

Is the marriage bed not defiled when an unmarried couple play daddy and mummy?

Please run your theology through this scripture and tell me your theology still holds

Phil 4:8:
"Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure , whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

Can I boldly stand before your intending Father in-law and Pastor and say.

"I hope to marry your daughter and I have been faithfully performing my sexual duty to her...."

Can you repeat the same thing as a legal married man and say

"I thank you for giving me your daughter and I have been faithfully performing my sexual duty to her...."

Bahddo:

Quick questions for you.
1) What was the punishment under the Mosaic law for a man having relations with the woman engaged to him?
2) Why is it that consensual sex with a woman married or engaged to another man was punishable by death, but forcing an unmarried and unengaged woman into sex (rape) wasn't?

Answered your questions!
1) What was the [b]punishment under the Mosaic law for a man having relations with the woman engaged to him?[/b]

If there is a punishment, then it cannot be right or allowed as you have been presenting it.
IF THE WOMAN IS NOT ENGAGED
Deu 22:28-29:
"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give to the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he has humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."

Compulsory permanent marriage even if he discovers she's an Ogbanje and has Epilepsy on top! LOL!
IF THE WOMAN IS ENGAGED TO ANOTHER
Deu 22:25-26:
"But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. But to the damsel you shall do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man rises against his neighbor, and slays him, even so is this matter:"

This case is Rape!If it is NOT a Rape case (within the CITY)

Deu 22:23-24:
"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed to an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he has humbled his neighbor's wife: so you shall put away evil from among you."

Both are killed.

2) Why is it that consensual sex with a woman married or engaged to another man was punishable by death, but forcing an unmarried and unengaged woman into sex (rape) wasn't?

The fact that in BOTH cases there were punishment meant that they were both WRONG. The only difference is the GRAVITY of the offence against the state of Israel and the groom to be!

If sleeping with your "spouse" was not wrong and correct, why should it attract even the tiniest bit of punishment?

mrkings84:


Thanks my brother for sharing your wealth of experience. This will go a long way in helping those who truly want to learn.

I appreciate you too sir

BERNIMOORE:


I appreciate you been very positive,,,,But i want to tell you that you were just Lucky and dont use your situation as a yardstick to measure others..you are a virgin and your mate too was a virgin....that is like 10% if not less, like i said you are Not qualified to handle complex marrital issues or matters because you had yours very easy ...Some women will deny your questions and their family too will help them cover up, i nearly have a heartbreak, the Next lady i dated again was from Imo state and she pretend to be too Nice and she actually told me that No sex bebore marriage and also assured me that she was intanct, After i had already spent monies for her and her younger sisters in 2006 a Guy just called me and introduced himself as Uche, he just advised me to keep away from that girl, i was asking him how he got my number he said that i should ask her that uche said she had done abortion for him, and i should ask her youger sister Schooling in benin which i have the Number, i just shove it aside that night and thought it was one of these jealous guys because she told me that she is not in any relationship again, i called her sister in Benin and ask who is Uche to her sister my Girlfriend, Her sister just switched off the phone and i called her severaly that day she didnt pick, i called my Girlfriend severally she didnt pick, well i cant imagine how disorganised i was throughout that day finally she called me around 11 pm i was already sleeping because food wasnt even sweet in my mouth that day, She now told me that Uche was one of her ex but they dont see each other again i now ask how he Got my Nunber she denied that, ok is it truth you had abortion for him, she kept quiet because she never told me...i now put it to her that she still sees uche, infact from information uche copied my number from her phone..anyway the relationship ended like that i was soo confused that time and my parents were also searching for me but i vehemently told them to stop, i was 34 that time and my youger ones are married ..i told my parent that i will be the one to chose what suites me because i will be the one to live with the wife not them....so in all the road to my own marriage wasnt smooth, some are lucky and some are Not ...i have 3 kids now...my older cousine that married a virgin 12 years Ago had no issues till date..My final point is just show people what is right, But let them chose how to make or determine their choice, i dont suggest that people should follow my example relating it too does not mean that i am advising anybody, anyway we want to please God first and he will guide us and also forgive us where we erred thanks

So sorry for your experience and it is enough to make one begin to doubt if any one exist even in our churches that are truthful.

You may want to call mine "luck " of you like but I wouldn't call it luck but grace.

You think my courtship was easy?

Far from it. We were both operating under the same rule of God and even then, we didn't appreciate each other because we were both not pretending. Let me tell you the things we got right
1. We got our Foundations right
a. We both had some non-negotiable traits we wanted
i. Must be Born Again
ii. Must love God (evidenced by one who values purity)
iii. Must have reasonable future prospects
iv. Must be respected by both old and young
b. We actually designed how our marriage will be like during our courtship.
We had differences o, bit we learnt to accommodate each other.
c. We set our limits as per expression of emotional love to each other.

2. I think we did our homework of finding out about each other. Trust me, there were many things we didn't like about each other or things we'll like to change.

3. Would it have mattered if she wasn't a virgin? No! Not at all, I wouldn't still contemplate sleeping with her even if I discovered that. I believe in what is termed "secondary virginity".

The battle to sleep with someone is fought and won several months/years before the final event take place.

Now, on sexual compatibility,
I'm sure you have heard of women who become frigid after their first child. That cannot be detected before marriage. Should the man find a new wife?

Some men suddenly or gradually become sexually impotent along the path of their marriage. Should the wife pack out?

Some women's libido seem to increase after childbirth or even menopause.

Just like a woman getting pregnant is no guarantee she'll ever have a baby. And a lady being a virgin does not guarantee that she'll have children. So is the issue of marriage.

It's called for better for worse because of this. A woman who married because the the man is working in Chevron may be disappointed after marriage that he looses his job and can get at best a classroom teacher job.

Sexual compatibility is a fallacy: every thing can change within a marriage. As humans, we look at the external, but many things that will affect us are internal or not visible in the physical. A beautiful girl may be internally a crippled dame (crippled liver, blind kidney, ugly intestine etc). Would you also ask your girl for a checkup of each of her internal organs before you certify her fit for marriage?

That's why at the end of the day, we let God be the ultimate final for our marriage choices.

That was why I said:

As a married man, I am sure that you know that there is a difference between a once-a-week/occasional sex with a girlfriend AND an almost daily sex with a wife? A girl you used to sleep with once or twice a month will act differently when she sees that sex is and average of 4-5 a week endlessly, year after year.

In other words, a girlfriend's sexual disposition does not guarantee any continuity during marriage.

Is the above quote correct?
You'll also agree with me that virginity promote trust pertaining to some sexual problems that may arise in marriage.

Your deviation is noticeable when you introduced sexual pervertions to the discourse. The op was not addressing issues of sexual perverts. Rather he was talking about normal sexual behaviour. Normal sexual behaviour should not be tied down by religion inhibitions.

shadeyinka:

I didn't deviate one bit. Your post was:


What is sex devoid of religious inhibitions?

And I gave you a few example of sex without any religious inhibitions and with reasons to justify such acts

1. Sleeping with another person's wife with her consent
2. Having sex with a dog, donkey or pig (as I am not hurting anyone)
3. Having sex with a corpse as long as the corpse wasn't killed by me and the corpse is beautiful.
4. Having sex with a fellow man or fellow woman with their consent

The list can go on and on: I perceive this is what you mean?

cerpvad:
Your deviation is noticeable when you introduced sexual pervertions to the discourse. The op was not addressing issues of sexual perverts. Rather he was talking about normal sexual behaviour. Normal sexual behaviour should not be tied down by religion inhibitions.

Which of this is a SIN when you remove religious colouration/inhibitions?

1. Sleeping with another person's wife with her consent
2. Having sex with a dog, donkey or pig (as I am not hurting anyone)
3. Having sex with a corpse as long as the corpse wasn't killed by me and the corpse is beautiful.
4. Having sex with a fellow man or fellow woman with their consent

NONE!

But this is what you get when God is thrown out of the window.
It is impossible to throw out religious inhibitions and still arrive at normal sexual relationship

Hope rapist Dy read dis sha

shadeyinka:

So sorry for your experience and it is enough to make one begin to doubt if any one exist even in our churches that are truthful.

You may want to call mine "luck " of you like but I wouldn't call it luck but grace.

You think my courtship was easy?

Far from it. We were both operating under the same rule of God and even then, we didn't appreciate each other because we were both not pretending. Let me tell you the things we got right
1. We got our Foundations right
a. We both had some non-negotiable traits we wanted
i. Must be Born Again
ii. Must love God (evidenced by one who values purity)
iii. Must have reasonable future prospects
iv. Must be respected by both old and young
b. We actually designed how our marriage will be like during our courtship.
We had differences o, bit we learnt to accommodate each other.
c. We set our limits as per expression of emotional love to each other.

2. I think we did our homework of finding out about each other. Trust me, there were many things we didn't like about each other or things we'll like to change.

3. Would it have mattered if she wasn't a virgin? No! Not at all, I wouldn't still contemplate sleeping with her even if I discovered that. I believe in what is termed "secondary virginity".

The battle to sleep with someone is fought and won several months/years before the final event take place.

Now, on sexual compatibility,
I'm sure you have heard of women who become frigid after their first child. That cannot be detected before marriage. Should the man find a new wife?

Some men suddenly or gradually become sexually impotent along the path of their marriage. Should the wife pack out?

Some women's libido seem to increase after childbirth or even menopause.

Just like a woman getting pregnant is no guarantee she'll ever have a baby. And a lady being a virgin does not guarantee that she'll have children. So is the issue of marriage.

It's called for better for worse because of this. A woman who married because the the man is working in Chevron may be disappointed after marriage that he looses his job and can get at best a classroom teacher job.

Sexual compatibility is a fallacy: every thing can change within a marriage. As humans, we look at the external, but many things that will affect us are internal or not visible in the physical. A beautiful girl may be internally a crippled dame (crippled liver, blind kidney, ugly intestine etc). Would you also ask your girl for a checkup of each of her internal organs before you certify her fit for marriage?

That's why at the end of the day, we let God be the ultimate final for our marriage choices.

That was why I said:


Is the above quote correct?
You'll also agree with me that virginity promote trust pertaining to some sexual problems that may arise in marriage.

Again I thank you for all the honest conversation what I gained here is more of our relationship with God, although life's road seems to be rough..we need Gods guidance more... Thanks for your time.. I rest my case here

shadeyinka:


I said:
In other words when does a young unmarried man or woman become guilty of fornication sleeping with someone who ends up not not his/her marriage spouse? (How many people must he/she have slept with?)?
Clarification of the above:
The OT rule was that if you seduce a person (who is not bretroted to any one,) to have sex with her, then you MUST marry her for the rest of her life.

Let's assume that Mr Man later found something wrong with Miss Girl's character (or she later found to have epilepsy) and he broke up with her.

1. Is Mr Man guilty of "fornication"?
2. Is Miss Girl guilty of Fornication?
3. If Miss Girl later was to marry another man, is the other man not defrauded?
4. By the OT rule, since this girl is not a virgin anymore is she not treated as a _whore?

even with your assumption, it is clear that an issue arises only when she marries another man. The issue was always getting deflowered by another man and then getting married as a virgin to an unsuspecting man.

Culturally, the token of virginity is presented on the wedding night to the Father of the Bride. He is the one who keeps it in case of eventualities.

Deu 22:15:
"Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity to the elders of the city in the gate:"

It is never even in the possession of the Husband or the Groom's father so that they can't say "they can't find it" or replace it with another cloth.

So, this deflates your theory that "an engaged couple could have sex as long as they will marry each other". The question then is where would they find the token of her virginity?

Summary:
By the Old Testament, the Bride is expected to be a VIRGIN on the wedding night!

the bride is expected to be a virgin when she first has relations with the man who becomes her husband.

The Jewish culture is not the exact same thing as what the law stipulates. The culture is influenced by the law but there are always bits of addition. In Jesus day, come people ceremonially washed their hands up to the elbow, was that what the law stipulated?

From the verses in the Bible, the cloth thing only comes up when after having relations with her, the man is upset and says she wasn't a virgin. Read those verses carefully, they entertain the possibility that the man is saying the truth or that he is lying. If a man just has sex with his new bride and blood spilled but he still wants to lie about it, would he first go present the bloodied cloth to her parents and then go lie to the elders of the community?

The law itself never talked about how the parents get the cloth. If the man was bent on lying against her, he wouldn't willingly present them with evidence against him first. They would evidently have to get it from their daughter. So your claim only makes sense in the light of later Jewish custom and not the law. It's the law that define God's views.

If it was mandatory as you claim, where did Joseph (who married an already pregnant Mary and didn't have relations with her until she gave birth) find blood stained sheets that he presented to his father-in-law? You don't seem to get it, if the husband is fine with the condition in which he met her, no one has an issue.

No! no!! no!!?
I quoted:
"
1Cor 7:2:
"Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband."
And said:

The solution to fornication seems to be marriage and NOT to have a person you'll be having an exclusive dating relationship. "

If it means to avoid sleeping around, Paul would have written

Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own woman and let every woman have her own man" .

But no!
It says have your own legally married spouse!

you are assuming what fornication means, which is what churches have assumed for centuries while their pastors and leaders commit the vilest of sex sins in secret.

Paul was simply saying, if you have your own wife/husband, you are less likely to engage in sexual acts that are wrong (fornication) because of your urges. That includes the temptation to sleep with another man's wife/fiancee, with relatives (incest), and so on. You people only assume that fornication means you are single and sleep with someone. The Bible never said so.

There were two offences of the Israeli with the Moabites.
1. Sexual Immorality:
Jewish girls don't sleep around because they know they have to present a token of their virginity on their wedding night but the Moabite girls have no such rules hence a Jewish man can pick a girlfriend from amongst them AND be having sex with them
2. Idolatry:
Participation in idol related activities like dancing, eating and praying to the Moabites idols.

Don't forget that God's anger was doused when
Num 25:7-8:
"And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand; And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel."

unless you are just being dishonest, the Bible clearly states why people were killed - they had bowed down to Baal of peor. The man who brought a woman into the camp wasn't killed because he had sex, but because he had been one of the idolaters and still dared to bring one of the women into the camp while the scorge/plague was on.

This is how you people add to what the Bible says until no one knows what it truly says anymore.

Heb 13:4:
"Marriage is honorable[b] in all[/b] , and the bed undefiled: but fornicators and adulterers God will judge."

Is the marriage bed not defiled when an unmarried couple play daddy and mummy?

you don't have a marriage bed if you aren't married. I don't know why it's hard for you to grasp. Those verses are for the married - stay faithful to your spouse.

Please run your theology through this scripture and tell me your theology still holds


Phil 4:8:
"Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure , whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

Can I boldly stand before your intending Father in-law and Pastor and say.

"I hope to marry your daughter and I have been faithfully performing my sexual duty to her...."

Can you repeat the same thing as a legal married man and say

"I thank you for giving me your daughter and I have been faithfully performing my sexual duty to her...."

this is stupid talk. Do you discuss with your father-in-law about having sex with your wife (his daughter)? When a man is engaged to a woman in Bible times, he can divorce her. Engagement was taken as serious as marriage, as if they were already married.

African culture is different, but then we didn't set out to discuss African culture, did we? We are discussing the Bible and what it reveals about God's thoughts on sex despite widely held beliefs.

Answered your questions!
1) What was the [b]punishment under the Mosaic law for a man having relations with the woman engaged to him?[/b]

If there is a punishment, then it cannot be right or allowed as you have been presenting it.
IF THE WOMAN IS NOT ENGAGED
Deu 22:28-29:
"If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give to the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he has humbled her, he may not put her away all his days."

Compulsory permanent marriage even if he discovers she's an Ogbanje and has Epilepsy on top! LOL!
IF THE WOMAN IS ENGAGED TO ANOTHER
Deu 22:25-26:
"But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die. But to the damsel you shall do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man rises against his neighbor, and slays him, even so is this matter:"

This case is Rape!If it is NOT a Rape case (within the CITY)

Deu 22:23-24:
"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed to an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he has humbled his neighbor's wife: so you shall put away evil from among you."

Both are killed.

I asked about consensual sex between two persons engaged to each other (ie, the man lays down with the woman betrothed to him) and you quote those verses about rape? Are you kidding or you don't know that those verses are about rape?

When a man lays hold on or grabs and has sex with (this is referring to rape, if you aren't aware) a woman who isn't married or engaged he has to pay a fixed sum of money, marry her (non-negotiable), and not be allowed to divorce her (because he had humiliated her). Take note that the same term is also used when Amnon (son of David) raped his sister Tamar. He had humiliated or humbled her.

He is only killed if she was engaged or married. In fact if she's a slave girl, he wouldn't be killed even if she was engaged.

That's totally different from consensual sex with an unengaged woman - Exodus 22: 16, 17

16. And if a man entice a maid that is not betrothed, and lie with her, he shall surely endow her to be his wife.
17. If her father utterly refuse to give her unto him, he shall pay money according to the dowry of virgins.

There was no punishment for consensual sex with an unengaged woman. He only had to pay dowry and marry her if her father agrees. Regardless of whether he marries her or not, he had to pay dowry (any amount the girl's fathers asks), because then no man would marry his daughter as a virgin anymore and he cannot cash out from her wedding like he would have from a virgin daughter.

2) Why is it that consensual sex with a woman married or engaged to another man was punishable by death, but forcing an unmarried and unengaged woman into sex (rape) wasn't?

The fact that in BOTH cases there were punishment meant that they were both WRONG. The only difference is the GRAVITY of the offence against the state of Israel and the groom to be!

If sleeping with your "spouse" was not wrong and correct, why should it attract even the tiniest bit of punishment?

of course they are both wrong - sleeping with a woman belonging to another man, and rape of a woman that is unengaged/unbethrothed. How does either of them equate to sleeping with someone you are engaged to? You haven't answered the question. Why was CONSENSUAL sex with an engaged woman considered WORSE than RAPING an unengaged one, under the Mosaic law?

When you understand that, you'd get the point. It was never about the act of sex in itself, but the fact that you are taking what already belonged to someone else or planning to give someone else a 'used' wife. The punishment prescribed in the case of the rape of an unengaged woman, was simply because it was rape - she had been humiliated (forced against her consent).

In the case of consensual sex with an unengaged woman, they simply had to get married with her father's consent (if it's rape, he must marry her, consent or not). That way, you don't pass the buck of your actions to another man.

This is likely my last post on this issue, as it is evident you don't know enough about the Bible's laws to tell the difference between consensual sex and rape. Also, you keep answering questions like you don't understand it. I asked what was the punishment when a man lies down with the woman bethrothed to him, and you brought up verses about rape. I don't get.

You need to understand the Bible you are arguing about.

Aderewah:


Don't fo yourself. You questioned my assertion. Come up with facts to debunk it.

Rest. I asked you a simple question but you failed to answer. What fact are you expecting from me when you cannot provide simple answers to buttress what you posted, ab initio. You are the one who turned it into a questioning contest.

So long.

BERNIMOORE:
Again I thank you for all the honest conversation what I gained here is more of our relationship with God, although life's road seems to be rough..we need Gods guidance more... Thanks for your time.. I rest my case here

I love you Bro! I can feel the sincerity behind your conversations with me. None of us is perfect and we all have our scars. But we don't let that stop us from focusing on the Author and finisher of or Faith.

I pray the Lord perfects all that pertain to you and your wife.

Shalom

Daguccizgreat:
Leave that guy. He knows not what he's talking about

You are right bro

PrecisionFx:


U are the deceived one.

U are either a christian or u are not.

There are no middle grounds

It's ok, no qualms shall,, let's not quarrel over this. Thanks to God He knows those that are His!

Ghenisean:

But it isn't sexual intercourse naa , I date with sexual intercourse far from the two of us,but,kissing maybe once once or occasionally,that is quite hard to let go ooo,it'll be like a normal friendship between a boy and a girl when there's no kissing. There'll be nothing special about the relationship,no ties at all,is like an everyday friend who you call or text sweet words every time,only you check am naa

No matter how u look at it, what's not permitted by God is sin when indulge in

shadeyinka:

Thanks my brother for the encouraging words

You welcome man!

mrkings84:


No matter how u look at it, what's not permitted by God is sin when indulge in

The Bible didn't talk against kissing,it even have a portion were it talked about kissing between two love partners,visit the Songs of Solomon,the first and second chapters,you'll see What I mean.

Ghenisean:



The Bible didn't talk against kissing,it even have a portion were it talked about kissing between two love partners,visit the Songs of Solomon,the first and second chapters,you'll see What I mean.

But King Solomon was married, That his book talks about love doesn't mean both unmarried lovers are encouraged by the Bible to start having sexual immoralities.

mrkings84:


But King Solomon was married, That his book talks about love doesn't mean both unmarried lovers are encouraged by the Bible to start having sexual immoralities.

I didn't know kissing is another word for sexual intercourse ,no one mentioned that until you did. Anyways its OK.
Besides,the book wasn't referring or describing
married couples Sir,it was about a young man and woman whom he cherishes . I guess you didn't read it,I wasn't expecting you to read it though

Ghenisean:

I didn't know kissing is another word for sexual intercourse ,no one mentioned that until you did. Anyways its OK.
Besides,the book wasn't referring or describing
married couples Sir,it was about a young man and woman whom he cherishes . I guess you didn't read it,I wasn't expecting you to read it though

Ok, I see, so before you think kissing na a way of washing mouth abi?

mrkings84:


Ok, I see, so before you think kissing na a way of washing mouth abi?

Eehhenn na.

Mr OP
Everybody knows Premarital-Sex is a Sin... but on the Issues of Transference of Spirits, i don't totally subscribe to that , Can you give a bible Quotation or explain, if you have a first hand experience.. I have heard a message from. Dr D.k Olukoya on that ,Em still not satisfied.. Does it mean if someone have spirit of Wisdom and U can get it through Sex(God forbid)..
Some people claim you get the curse someone is carrying through sex, what about the blessings..
Please back it up with Scriptural Quotation.. I want to learn

"Anyone you have sex with automatically transfers to you every spirit he or she has."

is it from the scripture?