Chosen1984:
All these long epistles will not give salvation to any soul.

Arguments and counter arguments will not give salvation to any soul..

There are just Destination in life for All of us, irrespective of Whatever we claim we believe .

Heaven or Hell! We all Must end up in one of them.

We didn't create ourselves! We have a Creator, GOD ALMIGHTY! He has given us the way to life and Death.

The way to Heaven is to Accept JESUS CHRIST
The way to Hell is to Refuse to Accept JESUS CHRIST.

You can choose to argue all you want. But once you drop dead, you will face it squarely!

There is a Way that seemeth right to a man, the End is Destruction.

1000WaysToLive:
Lol!


You just proved her point. See the way you just shot off your own foot!!

Chosen1984:


Let me shoot my foot but get what Matters!

What Matters is the Truth that you and I and Everyone needs!

What Matters is having JESUS Christ before you leave this Earth..

1000WaysToLive:
Not interested bro. I'll pass

Chosen1984:
Safe Journey bro!

1000WaysToLive:
I wish you same bro!

Remember to have fun in Heaven while some of your family and friends languish in hell because they did not believe in your hiding, elusive but loving God.

Chosen1984:
All these long epistles will not give salvation to any soul.

Arguments and counter arguments will not give salvation to any soul..

There are just Destination in life for All of us, irrespective of Whatever we claim we believe .

Heaven or Hell! We all Must end up in one of them.

We didn't create ourselves! We have a Creator, GOD ALMIGHTY! He has given us the way to life and Death.

The way to Heaven is to Accept JESUS CHRIST
The way to Hell is to Refuse to Accept JESUS CHRIST.

You can choose to argue all you want. But once you drop dead, you will face it squarely!

There is a Way that seemeth right to a man, the End is Destruction.

Chosen1984:
All these long epistles will not give salvation to any soul.

Arguments and counter arguments will not give salvation to any soul..

There are just Destination in life for All of us, irrespective of Whatever we claim we believe .

Heaven or Hell! We all Must end up in one of them.

We didn't create ourselves! We have a Creator, GOD ALMIGHTY! He has given us the way to life and Death.

The way to Heaven is to Accept JESUS CHRIST
The way to Hell is to Refuse to Accept JESUS CHRIST.

You can choose to argue all you want. But once you drop dead, you will face it squarely!

There is a Way that seemeth right to a man, the End is Destruction.

1000WaysToLive:
I wish you same bro!

Remember to have fun in Heaven while some of your family and friends languish in hell because they did not believe in your hiding, elusive but loving God.

Chosen1984:

Everyone has an opportunity just like u have now..

It's a Personal Race

Salvation is a free gift for all..

Humble yourself and Make use of the privilege of being alive that you have now..

If you don't.. ... when you cross over , you will wish you did bro..

Chosen1984:
All these long epistles will not give salvation to any soul.

Arguments and counter arguments will not give salvation to any soul..

There are just Destination in life for All of us, irrespective of Whatever we claim we believe .

Heaven or Hell! We all Must end up in one of them.

We didn't create ourselves! We have a Creator, GOD ALMIGHTY! He has given us the way to life and Death.

The way to Heaven is to Accept JESUS CHRIST
The way to Hell is to Refuse to Accept JESUS CHRIST.

You can choose to argue all you want. But once you drop dead, you will face it squarely!

There is a Way that seemeth right to a man, the End is Destruction.

Chosen1984:


Let me shoot my foot but get what Matters!

What Matters is the Truth that you and I and Everyone needs!

What Matters is having JESUS Christ before you leave this Earth..

XXXXTENTACION:
take am easy with the guy naw

Sabr1na:
Dear OP, you forgot -- "AtHEiSm iS a ReLIgiON" -- Hands down the most retarded claim they love to make. They think the whole world revolves around their myopic views. In a way it ties in with your first point though.

DaughterOfAllah:
Hello,

[Disclaimer] I intend this message to be for the people who feel compelled to win souls to their respective faiths i.e online evangelists, online apologists etc. However, I honestly recommend that every believer of every faith read this piece. Before I continue with my post, I want to start by declaring that I am, as a matter of fact, an atheist. As an atheist, I have no belief in the existence of any supernatural being(s). My lack of belief stems from the lack of credible evidence for the existence of all such alleged cosmic beings. However, I do not claim to know there are no gods. There is a fundamental difference. Therefore, I'd deeply appreciate an honest understanding of my position, rather than a strawman caricature thereof. I apologise, however, for the length in advance

DaughterOfAllah:
[color=#770077]
When abandoning any prominent religious faith, I've discovered that attempts to correct any such departure increases exponentially the longer you remain detached from any said faith. As such, I've had few close acquaintances who, aware of my stance on religion, constantly try to argue me right back into it. And believe me, no matter how hard I express myself or justify my position, they remain undeterred!

When making a case for their gods, theists love to employ lots of strategies and gimmicks just to win you over. From desperate apologetics, to self-righteous sanctimonious piety, to attempting to reverse the burden of proof, to emotional appeal, manipulation and outright threatening the unbeliever with eternal damnation in HELL! Sometimes, they assume you were never a true believer, even though you've practiced said religion all your life. They pretend that they have it all figured out. Listening to unbelievers before conversion attempts is completely unimportant in their book.

DaughterOfAllah:
[color=#770077]
There is a common flaw I've noticed when these people try to convert me. This flaw is noticeably prominent in believers of all faiths: They never listen. Things would be a lot more easier for religious followers if they just stopped a second to hear the unbelievers out!. The moment you begin to make assumptions about your co-discussant(s) in any rational discourse, you've already lost - especially if your sole purpose is to get them to change their minds.

I was watching a Christian movie last night titled God's Not Dead. I've heard a lot about it, but I only came accross it last night while surfing the web looking for stuff to download. Judging from the title, I had assumed that some filmmakers wanted to share incontrovertible, undisputed, empirical evidence for the Christian god. Oh, how wrong was I! What I got instead was nearly two hours of atheist strawmen caricatures, Christian propaganda all enmeshed in false persecution complex. I mean, even by religious standards the film was a mess. It did nothing but reinforce the fact that Christians usually don't give a damn about anyone but themselves! They portray their religion as a selfish one. As long as they can take the W over anyone with disputing views, they don't mind if they peddle lies and falsehood or even outright contradict themselves. I could go on another rant slamming God's Not Dead and exposing it's fallacies and lies, but that's a whole other issue entirely.

DaughterOfAllah:
[color=#770077]
Religious believers make a lot of unjustified assumptions when talking about atheists. I'm going to table out a list of these assumptions. (Mind you, this list is based on the observation derived from conversations with believers for a significant time period. There will obviously be a tiny few exceptions.)

UNJUSTIFIED ASSUMPTIONS AND LIES MOST RELIGIOUS BELIEVERS MAKE ABOUT ATHEISTS
1) Atheists reason like all other religionists. To demonstrate this, ask any Christian or Muslim if they think atheists view people like Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens as infallible authorities of knowledge. I can bet an overwhelming majority would say yes! This is the problem: without any justification, religious believers think atheists reason the way they do, but in reverse! They view the Bible and Quran as the infallible words of Yahweh and Allah respectively; of course atheists feel the same about Neil DeGrasse Tyson and other prominent atheists right? Wrong! Our epistemology differs! Atheists rely solely on reason and logic to decipher truths. Most of us became atheists before we even heard of Richard Dawkins or concepts like evolution and the big bang. Ideas like evolution only serve as occasional reinforcement. Even if evolution was disproved today, we'll still have no beliefs in god(s). This is the reason why people trash talking evolution always amuse me: I don't care about evolution! All I care about is the existence of god(s) - for which no incontrovertible evidence has yet been demonstrated under reliable and/or controlled settings.

2) Atheists do not have spiritual or religious experiences. This is a pure lie. Atheists DO have "spiritual" experiences - they just interprete it differently than you do. Most believers are quick to shut down atheists when they assert that they've had strange things happen to them, this denying them their experiences. Some gloat and rub it in the atheists face that such experience proves their god really exists. But this is not true in the slightest. The truth is this: people have a habit of interpreting significant events in their lives through their respective worldviews. A Christian who experiences an NDE will see Jesus just the way an Indian will see Vishnu, or a Muslim will see Allah. Another fact is that most fantastical events we have experienced in life can sometimes be explained through natural laws and physics, from eerie sounds or moving objects to even crazier things like hallucinations, mass hysteria, NDEs etc. Things like thunder, rain and even alchemy we're mysteries in the ancient times. Today, we know much better. When you're a believer, it is often convenient to view everything that happens around you through the lens of your religion. However, you still have no right to deny people their own legitimate experiences or label them as lies just because they are not of your religion.

3) Oh this one really ticks me off: Atheists behave the way theologians describe them. First of all, it should be noted that religious theologians and apologists like William Lane Craig and Ravi Zacharias are not authorities on atheism! These people mostly carry out NO research to corroborate their "facts". They come from institutes which are founded on the belief - which most still uphold - that atheists are morally bankrupt and worthy of damnation. These institutes differ from other educational institutions who arrive at their conclusions, only after sufficient data has been collected and processed.
These theologians are informed solely by their faith. They presuppose who atheists are and this is very evident when you watch their debates. An academic scholar with background(s) in counter-apologetics is a good source but majority of the time, the only true authorities on atheism are atheists themselves! If you are bent on converting a specific atheist, the worst mistake you can make is confront them with baseless accusations like claiming "you know deep down you believe! you are just lying to yourself". You've already made up your mind about this individual, why do you suppose s/he will open up to you any further?...Hasn't the discussion been terminated prematurely? As I have stated countless times already, the fastest way to enstrange somebody in a discussion is to presume how they reason. It not only denies them a voice, it also destroys the purpose of the discussion in the first place. Speaking of false accusations....


4) Atheists secretly believe in God. The bible has pretty much destroyed the atheist's chance of having a voice to speak for his or herself. Romans 19:18-20 asserts that god has made the knowledge of his existence "plain" to the atheists. It's hard to argue in this context, given that Christians believe their holy book to be inspired by god - and he can't have been lying! Or can he? Generally, this makes Christians think than no true unbeliever exists. To them the knowledge of who god is evident to ALL. It also doesnt help that religious texts paint a sinister picture of unbelievers as "fools" or "enemies of an all-loving god". Thus, the hearts of believers is even more hardened towards non-believers. To put this in perspective and demonstrate how problematic this is, consider this: As a Christian, imagine if I told you, you don't believe in God. You can argue with me all day that you believe and that you obey his words, but I just shut you down and assert that your emotions are creating illusions of righteousness and loyalty, getting the best of you. You are actually just a lying sinner. Of course you'll feel helpless because I've denied you your feelings! That's exactly how you make atheists feel. It's always best to try the shoe on the other foot sometimes. Most of us atheists, really do not see any evidence for god. If you fail to understand this, any discussion with an unbeliever is pointless.

5) There are no atheists in foxholes. This is a tired canard that unfortunately, still gets trotted out in this day and age. The idea that atheists discover faith when faced with severe tribulations is as false as it is hilarious. Religionists truly believe that atheists are "agents" of the devil. They believe that when an atheist is suffering untold pain, it is due to unbelief, and that such pain will be removed when they accept their god(s). This assumption is not only irritating but highly irrelevant. People change worldviews all the time. Muslims can become Christians. Atheists can become Buddhists and so forth. There is no universal reason for this change. It is a non-argument. Just to add, some theists see successful atheists as people backed by the devil. Basically, if you're a rich atheist, Satan is behind your success. If you're a struggling atheist, your unbelief and blasphemy against god is catching up with you. There's no winning with this people!

DaughterOfAllah:
[color=#770077]
Ultimately, it is important for religious followers who seek to speak to atheists to understand where they are coming from first. I know it sounds like a heavy task, but that's the only way to achieve mutual beneficial discussions of this nature. Honestly, if you're not willing to find out what makes an atheist tick, I wonder what you stand to gain other than being a bullying, self-righteous, opinionated arse when engaging any atheist in a discussion.

---

This rant has probably triggered lots of believers who may feel the impulse to scroll right down and comment to pass judgements about me. I expect that. However, the fact that this post lacks transcience would justify me should any baseless accusations arise. Therefore I'd recommend that if you must put down a comment, endeavour to read (and understand!) the OP before jumping headlong into unfounded conclusions.
Thanks

Sabr1na:
Dear OP, you forgot -- "AtHEiSm iS a ReLIgiON" -- Hands down the most retarded claim they love to make. They think the whole world revolves around their myopic views. In a way it ties in with your first point though.

Dtruthspeaker:
Same as making Contradictory statements, it is Useless to everyone, except of course Liars!

You are either inside the office or outside it. So I choose for you and knock you to one side, which is it is Your clear stand that there is no God and I am not going to allow you to change it.

This is not right everyone is free to make and unmake their minds, so count me out.

Did you not hear that you can not believe what is on television this days not to talk about Recorded Theatre Art Performances called movies? Your mistake!

I do not know much about atheist but one thing I know is that They can never stand on anything not to talk about Naturally Established Truth Seen in Nature.

But they must run all over the world trying to escape their fall While Truth Only Chooses One House or Castle to Live and either stands with his castle or falls with it, Like a devoted Captain of a Ship!

If Atheist can stand on One Ground, they would have some respects whether they stand or they fall, like soldiers, rather than Running around Li like children playing "catcher"!

Well I did not scroll down to comment, I commented while scrolling down

So what say you?

Dtruthspeaker:

Hey Sab, Ready for Round 2, with the Rules of Fair Play and Good Reasons, No insults?

Dtruthspeaker:
Hey Sab, Ready for Round 2, with the Rules of Fair Play and Good Reasons, No insults?

Could Concession to the victor also be included?

And no after-thoughts and Repetitions, which means forfeit to the other side.

Arguments on points and points alone, breach of which is forfeit to the other side?

Sabr1na:


I say you are an unimportant douche with delusions of grandeur. You think you know everything and are not humble to learn. You want to bully people to buy your opinion but I'm sorry mate. It doesn't always work like that. I think meeting atheists online was like a culture shock to you, I understand. But sometimes you just have to let it go.

If you're going to sit there and point accusing fingers, what do you hope to achieve from this excuse of a response.


You are hands down the most insufferable apologist I've had the displeasure of quoting. You're clearly not intelligent (honestly you're one of the dumbest Christians I've met on here), but you're also so full of yourself when you address atheists. You're not ready to learn. You make rash judgements often exposing how uninformed you really are. Look how quick you were to imply she was contracting herself without understanding the basics of taking philosophical stances. You went ahead to commit an outrageous fallacy that not even an undergraduate logic student would commit.

You're so trash really. I'm not ready to pass through untold pain spoon-feeding you. I only wanted to respond to your rebuttal just so viewers of the thread won't be deceived, thinking you're making sense. Well I expect your type to support you tho.

Why are you so brutal?

Dtruthspeaker:


Hey Sab, Ready for Round 2, with the Rules of Fair Play and Good Reasons, No insults?

Could Concession to the victor also be included?

And no after-thoughts and Repetitions, which means forfeit to the other side.

Arguments on points and points alone, breach of which is forfeit to the other side?

Dtruthspeaker:


1. Sorry Al's Daughter, if someone drives in the middle of the road on both lanes we would love to knock the person out of the Road, for being a nuisance.

Same as making Contradictory statements, it is Useless to everyone, except of course Liars!

You are either inside the office or outside it. So I choose for you and knock you to one side, which is it is Your clear stand that there is no God and I am not going to allow you to change it.

Therefore you must always reflect this belief. Let me stop here and see the other parts of your post.



2. This is not right everyone is free to make and unmake their minds, so count me out.



3. Did you not hear that you can not believe what is on television this days not to talk about Recorded Theatre Art Performances called movies? Your mistake!



4. I do not know much about atheist but one thing I know is that They can never stand on anything not to talk about Naturally Established Truth Seen in Nature.

But they must run all over the world trying to escape their fall While Truth Only Chooses One House or Castle to Live and either stands with his castle or falls with it, Like a devoted Captain of a Ship!

If Atheist can stand on One Ground, they would have some respects whether they stand or they fall, like soldiers, rather than Running around Li like children playing "catcher"!



5. Well I did not scroll down to comment, I commented while scrolling down

So what say you?

GodHead85:

1. You are using a False Analogy in your response. Your "Car in the middle" premise does not rhyme with the concept of religious beliefs. There are countless positions that exist when it comes to the existence of Gods. Even among Christians, there are many kinds of christians. Among atheists, there are many types of Atheists. I hope you know that there are Atheists who believe in spirits. They don't believe in the Jewish god among others, but they believe that there are forces unknown to man.
You are making it seem like it's either A or B, but that's not always the case. Even within atheism, you have Strong Atheism and Weak Atheism. The OP reads me as a weak atheist. You have Apatheists who don't believe in God and don't care if he exists or not.
Since you believe in God, that means you're a Theist. Did you know there are many kinds of Theists? You have the Weak Theists, and the Strong Theists. You can check all these worldviews up. They are littered all over the internet. Your analogy is very very wrong.

2. You said everyone is free to make up his mind. Should I take , from that statement, that you have no interest trying to convert people ? Because if that's the case I don't see why you deemed it necessary to respond to this thread. This thread isn't meant for you if you do not seek out to convert people to your religion.

3. I'm afraid I don't really see your point here. Are you saying just because it's a movie , the screenwriters can make up any nonsense they feel like because they are recorded theatre art performances? LOL . I understand films are meant to be fictional but they are often intended to mirror the real society. To do this, they try to communicate real and relatable messages to viewers. Not mislead viewers or spew propaganda. Have you watched the movie before? Do you agree it is flawed?

4. You see, like I said, there are many kinds of atheists. The only thing common to atheists is that they don't believe in gods. Some atheists claim positively that there is no god (Strong atheists). Some are not so sure but they withhold belief because of lack of evidence (weak atheists). Stop generalizing too much. I think that's your problem. You have other kinds of atheists like the satanists, pastafarians, etc. However the common theme among them is their lack of belief. If you are confused, your goal should be to clarify the kind of Atheist the individual is. Based on experience, most atheists I know fall into the "weak atheist" category. It's hard to find a strong atheist. Not impossible, but hard. Those are the people I think you'll have an issue with

5. You misunderstood a lot in her post. You should not be to quick to assume. Ask questions first. Don't let your bias get the better of you.

Sabr1na:

Contradictory statements? Wow. Let us examine this grave accusation, shall we?


This is a false dichotomy fallacy. You're creating a false black and white scenario. Any honest individual would look up what a false dichotomy fallacy means but it's not like you care anyway, because your understanding of logic is so incredibly skewed. You're perfectly satisfied demonstrating how uninformed and dishonest you are. Basically, you've proved her point. You don't care what she believes. She's told you her stance but you feel satisfied misrepresenting her due to cognitive dissonance. To you it is impossible for someone to take the middle ground. Let me ask you: do you KNOW god exists or do you BELIEVE god exists.

Anyways, lack of belief =/= belief. No, she did NOT contradict herself.


Well, we now know how untrue this is for you....


I think you had no point here. You just felt like saying something you thought will be smart. Well you FAILED.



Another own goal. Let me clue you in because it seems you're the only fellow who missed the point of the op: If you don't know much about someone, find out directly from them. You don't know what they know. Don't be an assumptive dickhead.


Your faux sense of superiority plus your overwhelming ego will be death of you


It's cognitive dissonance that's dealing with you sir! You want to redefine atheism to suit your selfish purpose because you have no legitimate rebuttals to their position.

Stop being such a wuss. Gosh!



I say you are an unimportant douche with delusions of grandeur. You think you know everything and are not humble to learn. You want to bully people to buy your opinion but I'm sorry mate. It doesn't always work like that. I think meeting atheists online was like a culture shock to you, I understand. But sometimes you just have to let it go.

If you're going to sit there and point accusing fingers, what do you hope to achieve from this excuse of a response.


Ugh please save it.

If it were my XxSabrinaxX days, I'd have brought you to your knees . I was seldom active last year on NL, but you could ask around and the few who knew me would tell you.

You are hands down the most insufferable apologist I've had the displeasure of quoting. You're clearly not intelligent (honestly you're one of the dumbest Christians I've met on here), but you're also so full of yourself when you address atheists. You're not ready to learn. You make rash judgements often exposing how uninformed you really are. Look how quick you were to imply she was contracting herself without understanding the basics of taking philosophical stances. You went ahead to commit an outrageous fallacy that not even an undergraduate logic student would commit.

You're so trash really. I'm not ready to pass through untold pain spoon-feeding you. I only wanted to respond to your rebuttal just so viewers of the thread won't be deceived, thinking you're making sense. Well I expect your type to support you tho.

This is my last response to you. You're not qualified to have any logical discussion for now. Maybe if your reply to this impressed me, I'll indulge you

Cc. DaughterOfAllah, Martinez39s, Vic2Ree, LordReed

Sabr1na:

Contradictory statements? Wow. Let us examine this grave accusation, shall we?

This is a false dichotomy fallacy. You're creating a false black and white scenario. Any honest individual would look up what a false dichotomy fallacy means but it's not like you care anyway, because your understanding of logic is so incredibly skewed

LordReed:


The guy is full on delusional or at the very least fully dishonest.

GodHead85:

1. You are using a False Analogy in your response. Your "Car in the middle" premise does not rhyme with the concept of religious beliefs

GodHead85:

There are countless positions that exist when it comes to the existence of Gods. Even among Christians, there are many kinds of christians. Among atheists, there are many types of Atheists. I hope you know that there are Atheists who believe in spirits. They don't believe in the Jewish god among others, but they believe that there are forces unknown to man.
You are making it seem like it's either A or B, but that's not always the case. Even within atheism, you have Strong Atheism and Weak Atheism. The OP reads me as a weak atheist. You have Apatheists who don't believe in God and don't care if he exists or not.
Since you believe in God, that means you're a Theist. Did you know there are many kinds of Theists? You have the Weak Theists, and the Strong Theists. You can check all these worldviews up. They are littered all over the internet. Your analogy is very very wrong.

GodHead85:

2. You said everyone is free to make up his mind. Should I take , from that statement, that you have no interest trying to convert people ? Because if that's the case I don't see why you deemed it necessary to respond to this thread. This thread isn't meant for you if you do not seek out to convert people to your religion.

GodHead85:

3. I'm afraid I don't really see your point here. Are you saying just because it's a movie , the screenwriters can make up any nonsense they feel like because they are recorded theatre art performances? LOL . I understand films are meant to be fictional but they are often intended to mirror the real society. To do this, they try to communicate real and relatable messages to viewers. Not mislead viewers or spew propaganda. Have you watched the movie before? Do you agree it is flawed?

GodHead85:

4. You see, like I said, there are many kinds of atheists. The only thing common to atheists is that they don't believe in gods. Some atheists claim positively that there is no god (Strong atheists). Some are not so sure but they withhold belief because of lack of evidence (weak atheists). Stop generalizing too much. I think that's your problem. You have other kinds of atheists like the satanists, pastafarians, etc. However the common theme among them is their lack of belief. If you are confused, your goal should be to clarify the kind of Atheist the individual is. Based on experience, most atheists I know fall into the "weak atheist" category. It's hard to find a strong atheist. Not impossible, but hard. Those are the people I think you'll have an issue with