Emusan:

I've done that and I see where you're trying to prove that having sex with your wife when fasting is OK as Apostle Paul teaching of "except during fasting that a couple can deprive themselves of their body" is irrelevant as to what God said about fasting in Isaiah 58 that's why the lady can also said if that's your main target you can fire on.....

Oh but you are wrong! When you fast the way God wants, you abandon the need to "discipline" your flesh and instead actually do that which God stipulates.

Emusan:

So I'm here to point it out to you that the statement of Apostle Paul was right that is during fasting there should be no sex and that statement compliments the statement of God in Isaiah 58.

Go back and read.

Kobojunkie:
Oh but you are wrong! When you fast the way God wants, you abandon the need to "discipline" your flesh and instead actually do that which God stipulates.

And I'm telling you that discipline your flesh was part of what God wants during fasting as Isaiah 58:3 supported it.

Go back and read.

I've done that and it's boldly written that you must discipline your flesh!

Emusan:


And I'm telling you that discipline your flesh was part of what God wants during fasting as Isaiah 58:3 supported it.

read the entire chapter to understand what God is in fact saying

Kobojunkie:
read the entire chapter to understand what God is in fact saying

I've done that many times not even started today and what the chapter says is that during fasting our body must be disciplined.

Emusan:


I've done that many times not even started today and what the chapter says is that during fasting our body must be disciplined.

so you read up to verse 5 and you conclude still that God wants a day for you to starve yourself in the name of disciplining your body?
Ok!

Kobojunkie:
so you read up to verse 5 and you conclude still that God wants a day for you to starve yourself in the name of disciplining your body?
Ok!

I've pointed it out earlier that even verse 6-7 you quoted were well in support of Apostle Paul statement.

I'm still waiting for you to list ALL THOSE THINGS God wants us to do during fasting from the said Isaiah 58 and let's compare it with what Apostle Paul said.

Emusan:


I've pointed it out earlier that even verse 6-7 you quoted were well in support of Apostle Paul statement.

I'm still waiting for you to list ALL THOSE THINGS God wants us to do during fasting from the said Isaiah 58 and let's compare it with what Apostle Paul said.

I hope you understand why I find it very hard to believe that you in fact read this...

Isaiah 58 vs 6-9 (ESV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. “Is not this the fast that I choose: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the straps of the yoke, to let the oppressed[b] go free, and to break every yoke?
7. Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?
8. Then shall your light break forth like the dawn, and your healing shall spring up speedily; your righteousness shall go before you; the glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard.
9. Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer; you shall cry, and he will say, ‘Here I am.’ If you take away the yoke from your midst,
the pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness,

... and came away believing that what God wants is for you to discipline your body, thay which he clearly made known, in verse 5 (not included), essentially means nothing?

Kobojunkie:
I hope you understand why I find it very hard to believe that you in fact read this...

You don't need to believe understanding of that chapter will proof it.

... and came away believing that what God wants is for you to discipline your body, thay which he clearly made known, in verse 5 (not included), essentially means nothing?

The funny thing is, you're the one who have been shouting since that read the whole chapter but only for you to start the quote from verse 6, why?

Bcoz you know it'll expose your lies and lack of scriptural understanding of the whole issue.

Let me quote it from a relevant place with emphasis for better understanding.

3 They say, ‘Why have we gone without food, and You do not see it? Why have we put away our pride, and You do not know it?’ See, on the day you do not eat, you do what you want to do, and make it hard for all your workers.

Here God made it clear that on the day they didn't eat (fasting):

1. They do what they want to do (some translations used "pleasure" which means they satisfy their bodies with anything they feel the body wants. Of course we already know what they satisfied their body with isn't food since fasting is already knows as not eating.

So what are the things they satisfy their body with?

Se.xual pleasure will be part of it even though it wasn't clearly stated but looking at the way some translations rendered that particular verse we can come to that conclusion.

2. They oppressed their workers...instead of doing good works or works if righteousness.

This is the actual fasting God wants!

 [colur=blue]4 See, while you go without food you argue and fight and hit with a sinful hand. Going without food as you do today will not help your voice to be heard on high.[/color]

This is also not what God wants

 5 Is it a time without eating like this that I choose, a day for a man to put away his pride? Is it for bowing his head like a piece of grass, and to spread ashes and cloth made from hair for his bed? Will you call this time without eating a day that pleases the Lord?

Likewise here this isn't the type of fasting God wants.


6 Is not the time without eating which I choose, a time to take off the chains of sin, and to take the heavy load of sin off the neck? Is it not a time to let those who suffer under a sinful power go free, and to break every load from their neck?

This is where we're going!
Like I said earlier, to fast simply means to deprive oneself of food.

So what does God want during this period?
This verse analyses the key points:

1. A time to take off the chains of SIN and to take the heavy load of sin off the neck (some translations used "to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke...")

2. is it not a time to let those who suffer under a sinful power go free (some translations "and to let the oppressed go free,...")

3. and to break every load from their neck (some translations used "and that ye break every yoke?)

All these aren't about good works or works of righteousness as you earlier implied but pulling down the stronghold of the wickedness just as Christ said to His followers when they couldn't cast out demon.

"This goest out not without Prayer and Fasting"

And this is the same point God reinforced in the first part of that verse 3 that "if they didn't give their body into much pleasure, they should be able to pull down stronghold of the wicked" which is the same point Apostle Paul said a couple can deprive themselves of Se.xual pleasure for in other to achieve.

 7 Is it not a time to share your food with the hungry, and bring the poor man into your house who has no home of his own? Is it not a time to give clothes to the person you see who has no clothes, and a time not to hide yourself from your own family?

This is the particular verse you focus on while you neglected the other one which is about doing good works. In fact, some scholars put the first line this way "That the food they deprived themselves that day should be shared to the hungry and needy"

So as you can see, Isaiah 58 didn't support your assertion

Kobojunkie:
so you read up to verse 5 and you conclude still that God wants a day for you to starve yourself in the name of disciplining your body?
Ok!

The import of God's word found @ Isaiah 58 is the hypocritical showoffs that most people put on in the name of sacred service to God.
Many will keep billions of dollars, lots of food stuffs, clothings and buildings both home and abroad.
Their fellow worshiper will be coming to worship in hunger, rags and most of their fellow worshipers are either homeless or sleeping where the domestic pets of this rich worshipers can't even survive.
They will see their fellow believers in this retched state and greet them "may God be with you in Jesus name, Amen" James 2:14-17

So God is saying instead of keeping all what you can see that your fellow servant of God need, when he's dying in hunger, rags and homelessness. Why not share what you possess with your fellow believer?
Most people will not do this but when they're in tight situations, they'll start starving themselves, wearing dirty clothes and appearing shabbily for people to pity them. When their money, food, clothings and houses are still kept intact as their personal assets.
God is saying such hypocritical showy display is of no meaning to him!

Sex has to do with the body, soul and spirit. So if a couple wants to pray with fasting, they should both agree to set a time for themselves in order not for anything to hinder their supplications. 1Corinthians 7:5
So neither the husband nor the wife could decide on this alone, there must be a mutual agreement on the matter.

TATIME:


The import of God's word found @ Isaiah 58 is the hypocritical showoffs that most people put on in the name of sacred service to God.
Many will keep billions of dollars, lots of food stuffs, clothings and buildings both home and abroad.
Their fellow worshiper will be coming to worship in hunger, rags and most of their fellow worshipers are either homeless or sleeping where the domestic pets of this rich worshipers can't even survive.
They will see their fellow believers in this retched state and greet them "may God be with you in Jesus name, Amen" James 2:14-17

So God is saying instead of keeping all what you can see that your fellow servant of God need, when he's dying in hunger, rags and homelessness. Why not share what you possess with your fellow believer?
Most people will not do this but when they're in tight situations, they'll start starving themselves, wearing dirty clothes and appearing shabbily for people to pity them. When their money, food, clothings and houses are still kept intact as their personal assets.
God is saying such hypocritical showy display is of no meaning to him!

Sex has to do with the body, soul and spirit. So if a couple wants to pray with fasting, they should both agree to set a time for themselves in order not for anything to hinder their supplications. 1Corinthians 7:5
So neither the husband nor the wife could decide on this alone, there must be a mutual agreement on the matter.

Wow... Again, I see here yet another person fishing around for excuses not to take God at His word, something that has become a tradition of sorts in Christiandom. #resistGodatallcost!

God , in Isaiah 58 literally explains what He thinks of man's type of fasting, prescribing instead works of righteousness on your days of fasting, an exercise which He promises to reward yet His words are met with so much resistance, why? All so man can continue doing what he has been doing- man's doctrine and ways. Na wa ooo!

Kobojunkie:


Wow... Again, I see here yet another person fishing around for excuses not to take God at His word, something that has become a tradition of sorts in Christiandom. #resistGodatallcost!

God , in Isaiah 58 literally explains what He thinks of man's type of fasting, prescribing instead works of righteousness on your days of fasting, an exercise which He promises to reward yet His words are met with so much resistance, why? All so man can continue doing what he has been doing- man's doctrine and ways. Na wa ooo!

My comments is a backup for what you're saying!
I talked about fasting that's acceptable to God which negates the hypocritical show of hunger strike most people form in the name of fasting!
It's only the case of sex that you and i are not on the same page!

TATIME:


My comments is a backup for what you're saying!
I talked about fasting that's acceptable to God which negates the hypocritical show of hunger strike most people form in the name of fasting!
It's only the case of sex that you and i are not on the same page!

Just so you know, the idea of fasting was not created by God but by man. It is a practice that is common among several religjons out there as such it has no Jewish or Christian roots either. Even pagans fast from time to time.

It is essential to understand that God is saying " Here is the fasting I want from you instead" and verse 6 is the key in understanding that.

The entirety of Isaiah 58, is God now saying instead of what you do on your day of fasting, do what I suggest instead. What He, God suggests, come with rewards in abundance as those are works of righteousness which God commands of His people to obey. The same works of righteousness that anyone who wants to get into heaven will have to do anyways.

Jesus Christ mentioned the hypocrisy of fasting as done by the Pharisees but God is saying something else here.

As far as abstaining from sex during fasting? I believe the idea came from islam and not even from the popes.

Ruling on having sex with one's wife while knowing that she is fasting

Eulalia:

Its even written in the Bible where Paul said not to deprive yourselfs of sex EXCEPT it be for a period when you give yourself to fasting.

Here is the take of other Paulians who do not agree with you on Paul asking that folks abstain from sex during fasting

Can a person make love when fasting

Kobojunkie:

Here is the take of other Paulians who do not agree with you on Paul asking that folks abstain from sex during fasting

Can a person make love when fasting

Kobojunkie! you're still on this matter? . Hmm... Ok. Let me check it out

Eulalia:

Kobojunkie! you're still on this matter? . Hmm... Ok. Let me check it out

I have a thing against doctrines and traditions, including doctrines and traditions from foreign religions.

Kobojunkie:
I have a thing against doctrines and traditions, including doctrines and traditions from foreign religions.

Are you saying doctrines should not be followed? Dont you think it will affect the organisation of the Church and cause spiritual disorderliness?

Kobojunkie, I dont buy this your idea o. Kam gwa kwa gi ezi okwu.

Kobojunkie:

Here is the take of other Paulians who do not agree with you on Paul asking that folks abstain from sex during fasting
Can a person make love when fasting

The first century Christians do fast but it has a totally different meaning.
For instance when asked why Jesus' followers don't practice ritual fastings like other Jewish religionists (because even John's disciples do fast) Matthew 9:14
Jesus responded that his followers have no reason to fast because they're having the bride groom with them but when the bride groom is taking away from them the will fast! Matthew 9:15
Later Jesus' followers began fasting only when God's will is jeopardize not for personal reasons [Act 13:2-3, 14:23] this type of fast is not for personal reasons but for advancement of the good news. Thus when some people fasted unnecessarily Paul asked them to break it. Act 27:33-36
But regarding times of prayers for a couple to survive the endtime (which is God's will) they have to set aside time for fervent prayers [2Peter 3:11-13] Paul's suggestion is for couples to avoid sex during such times [1Corinthians 7:5] so that they can come back together to enjoy their marriage in order not to be tempted into extramarital affairs!

Eulalia:

Are you saying doctrines should not be followed? Dont you think it will affect the organisation of the Church and cause spiritual disorderliness?

Kobojunkie, I dont buy this your idea o. Kam gwa kwa gi ezi okwu.

I didn't say it! Jesus Christ Himself said it. He warned profusely against it even pointing out that by following doctrines and traditions of men, you nullify the power of God in your situation and lives.

I cant post the verses right now but I have done so on several occasions.

As Jesus explained it, by adopting these foreign ideas(teachings different from His own), you chart for yourselves a path different from the one He has laid down for you to follow, a path that has nothing to do with God and what God desires of you.
And we don't need to look far to find evidence for what Jesus Christ said as the world's church(Christianity and its peoples) are far from the picture of Jesus Christ in every way and form.

Believe me, your wife must 'flow' with you for the anoiting to flow.

Kobojunkie:


I didn't say it! Jesus Christ Himself said it. He warned profusely against it even pointing out that by following doctrines and traditions of men, you nullify the power of God in your situation and lives.

I cant post the verses right now but I have done so on several occasions.

As Jesus explained it, by adopting these foreign ideas(teachings different from His own), you chart for yourselves a path different from the one He has laid down for you to follow, a path that has nothing to do with God and what God desires of you.
And we don't need to look far to find evidence for what Jesus Christ said as the world's church(Christianity and its peoples) are far from the picture of Jesus Christ in every way and form.

Hmm... Ok. Will do a thorough study of those verses you just mentioned.

TATIME:
The first century Christians do fast but it has a totally different meaning.
For instance when asked why Jesus' followers don't practice ritual fastings like other Jewish religionists (because even John's disciples do fast) Matthew 9:14
Jesus responded that his followers have no reason to fast because they're having the bride groom with them but when the bride groom is taking away from them the will fast! Matthew 9:15

All the passage says is that Jesus said His followers had no reason to fast while He was still with them. Nothing about the totally different meaning you suggest was given to fasting.

TATIME:
Later Jesus' followers began fasting only when God's will is jeopardize not for personal reasons [Act 13:2-3, 14:23] this type of fast is not for personal reasons but for advancement of the good news. Thus when some people fasted unnecessarily Paul asked them to break it.

Do you really believe the statement in bold can even in fact happen?
What type of fast? The passage simply says the men were already fasting and then the Spirit of God gave them instructions, which after fasting they executed. It did not say anything about the fasting itself different from the previous fasting as a group, nor does it link it to the "advancement of the good news" as you put it. They were worshipping and fasting as a group, something that we know they had done before.

Acts 13 vs 1-3 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers, Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger,[a] Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen a lifelong friend of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
2. While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.”
3. Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off..

A similar pattern can be seen in Acts 14 where fasting precedes, in most any religion (including their Judaic roots), in this case before a major decision.

Acts 14 vs19-23 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
19. But Jews came from Antioch and Iconium, and having persuaded the crowds, they stoned Paul and dragged him out of the city, supposing that he was dead.
20. But when the disciples gathered about him, he rose up and entered the city, and on the next day he went on with Barnabas to Derbe.
21. When they had preached the gospel to that city and had made many disciples, they returned to Lystra and to Iconium and to Antioch,
22. strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying that through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.
23. And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they had believed.

The disciples never made any formal declarations on fasting for the followers of Christ, nor is there any suggestion that fasting would be different from the old way. Isaiah 58 remains the only formal declaration on fasting by God.

TATIME:
But regarding times of prayers for a couple to survive the endtime (which is God's will) they have to set aside time for fervent prayers [2Peter 3:11-13] Paul's suggestion is for couples to avoid sex during such times [1Corinthians 7:5] so that they can come back together to enjoy their marriage in order not to be tempted into extramarital affairs!

I am not a Paulian, so I cannot speak to why the suggestion. But as you rightly stated, it is a "suggestion" not a rule, and ought not to be sold as one.

Emusan:


You don't need to believe understanding of that chapter will proof it.
The funny thing is, you're the one who have been shouting since that read the whole chapter but only for you to start the quote from verse 6, why?
Bcoz you know it'll expose your lies and lack of scriptural understanding of the whole issue.
Let me quote it from a relevant place with emphasis for better understanding.
3 They say, ‘Why have we gone without food, and You do not see it? Why have we put away our pride, and You do not know it?’ See, on the day you do not eat, you do what you want to do, and make it hard for all your workers.

Here God made it clear that on the day they didn't eat (fasting):

1. They do what they want to do (some translations used "pleasure" which means they satisfy their bodies with anything they feel the body wants. Of course we already know what they satisfied their body with isn't food since fasting is already knows as not eating.

So what are the things they satisfy their body with?

Se.xual pleasure will be part of it even though it wasn't clearly stated but looking at the way some translations rendered that particular verse we can come to that conclusion.

2. They oppressed their workers...instead of doing good works or works if righteousness.

This is the actual fasting God wants!

 [colur=blue]4 See, while you go without food you argue and fight and hit with a sinful hand. Going without food as you do today will not help your voice to be heard on high.[/color]

This is also not what God wants

 5 Is it a time without eating like this that I choose, a day for a man to put away his pride? Is it for bowing his head like a piece of grass, and to spread ashes and cloth made from hair for his bed? Will you call this time without eating a day that pleases the Lord?

Likewise here this isn't the type of fasting God wants.


6 Is not the time without eating which I choose, a time to take off the chains of sin, and to take the heavy load of sin off the neck? Is it not a time to let those who suffer under a sinful power go free, and to break every load from their neck?

This is where we're going!
Like I said earlier, to fast simply means to deprive oneself of food.

So what does God want during this period?
This verse analyses the key points:

1. A time to take off the chains of SIN and to take the heavy load of sin off the neck (some translations used "to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke...")

2. is it not a time to let those who suffer under a sinful power go free (some translations "and to let the oppressed go free,...")

3. and to break every load from their neck (some translations used "and that ye break every yoke?)

All these aren't about good works or works of righteousness as you earlier implied but pulling down the stronghold of the wickedness just as Christ said to His followers when they couldn't cast out demon.

"This goest out not without Prayer and Fasting"

And this is the same point God reinforced in the first part of that verse 3 that "if they didn't give their body into much pleasure, they should be able to pull down stronghold of the wicked" which is the same point Apostle Paul said a couple can deprive themselves of Se.xual pleasure for in other to achieve.

 7 Is it not a time to share your food with the hungry, and bring the poor man into your house who has no home of his own? Is it not a time to give clothes to the person you see who has no clothes, and a time not to hide yourself from your own family?

This is the particular verse you focus on while you neglected the other one which is about doing good works. In fact, some scholars put the first line this way "That the food they deprived themselves that day should be shared to the hungry and needy"

So as you can see, Isaiah 58 didn't support your assertion

When you read the book, always hold off on injecting your own delusions into what is written. I will post the verse in Easy to read English for all to see...

Isaiah 58 vs 6-9 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. “Cry aloud; do not hold back; lift up your voice like a trumpet; declare to my people their transgression, to the house of Jacob their sins.
2. Yet they seek me daily and delight to know my ways as if they were a nation that did righteousness and did not forsake the judgment of their God; they ask of me righteous judgments; they delight to draw near to God.
3. ‘Why have we fasted, and you see it not? Why have we humbled ourselves, and you take no knowledge of it? Behold, in the day of your fast, you seek your own pleasure,[a] and oppress all your workers.
4. Behold, you fast only to quarrel and to fight and to hit with a wicked fist. Fasting like yours this day will not make your voice to be heard on high.
5. Is such the fast that I choose, a day for a person to humble himself? Is it to bow down his head like a reed, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? Will you call this a fast, and a day acceptable to the Lord?

6. “Is not this the fast that I choose: to loose the bonds of wickedness,to undo the straps of the yoke,to let the oppressed[b] go free, and to break every yoke?
7. Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?
8. Then shall your light break forth like the dawn, and your healing shall spring up speedily; your righteousness shall go before you; the glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard.
9. Then you shall call, and the Lord will answer; you shall cry, and he will say, ‘Here I am.’If you take away the yoke from your midst, the pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness,

Behold, in the day of your fast, you seek your own pleasure,[a] and oppress all your workers....Of course, many of us are guilty of this. We fast because we seek our own pleasure- we want to pray for God to do for us what we desire.
While even as we expect God to do good things for us, we continue to treat those around us unfairly, including those who work for us.
Behold, you fast only to quarrel and to fight and to hit with a wicked fist. -- Our fasting does not change us as we are still the same people who continue to perpetrate evil on those around us, which is true since during fasting what we do is only temporary as we go back to our old ways once the fasting is over.