GNature:

Shouldn't the thread topic say "What is the significance of Nigerian Tribal Marks" ? The yorubas are not the only ones with tribal marks in Nigeria, so why single them out ?

well i believe the thread starter wanted to focus on the Yoruba scarification. i don't think it's singling anything out.
i'm sure u know that nigeria doesn't have one specific culture and scarification is done for cultural reasons. one cultural explanation would not be suficient enough to answer the thread starter's curiousity about why YORUBAS do it.


anyways, terracotta has answered the question i guess. so i'm out.

well i believe the thread starter wanted to focus on the Yoruba scarification. i don't think it's singling anything out.

What is the difference between "focusing on the yoruba scarification" and singling them out ? The reasons yorubas have tribal marks are the same reasons other Nigerian tribes have tribal marks - for identification.

So, the appropriate thing to have done would've been to address the title of this thread to Nigerian tribes that use tribal marks and not just the yorubas.

Anyway, I'll appreciate the thread starter to answer the question I originally posed.

Quote from Laudate:

 The point being made here, is that different ethnic groups across Nigeria also have indigenes who carry different types of tribal marks.

Thanks so much oo laudate. This is exactly the same point I was making. Great minds think alike. 

GNature:

Anyway, I'll appreciate the thread starter to answer the question I originally posed.

good. that's your best bet.

ogidi boy, i guess some people just dont wanna leave old stuff, it was a way of differenciatin during "ogun abele" in the 16 century , whats poppin , u live in irving.tx, holla at me .

Well Igbos have these little marks they put on kids' faces when they're sick. They're just little marks on the cheeks which often fade out as they get older, not as thick as the Yoruba/Bini marks though.

Those who wish to spend a little less time studying ghetto culture and familiarizing themselves with their own should read about ichi/ichie, which is the Igbo term for extensive facial cicatrization. Ozo titleholders in southeastern Nigeria traditionally had their entire faces covered with lines to signify their titled place in society. It is very rare to see a traditionally tattooed ozo titleholder these days, as the practice is dying out, but it was formerly an extremely high honor in places like Nri and Awka, which are considered to be ancestral homes of Igbo culture.

You also need to stop reading too many books and spend sometime IN Nigeria so you can familiarize yourself. Nobody marks their faces with permanent scars just to signify titles. I know OLD titleholders where I come from, they have nothing on their faces. The few Igbos I know with marks on their faces got it when they got sick and it fades out over them as you have to look closely to see. QUIT reading too many books, they're for whites/foreigners who want to feel like they know when they really don't.

Binis have tribal marks too but they're not really as thick as the one you'll find on the Yoruba men with funny looking hats (you know that hats those look like paper boats) on sleeveless agbada and baggy pants! lol lol

donzman, leave the educated fool to feel like he's smart.

now dat ur famous, can i get ur autograph?

ghettochyk:

now that your famous, can i get your autograph?

Yeah donz they say your at the peak of your carrrier. Wad up. lol. And since u've been there u forgot umunna. Na so u be. lol

TerraCotta:

[i]. Those who wish to spend a little less time studying ghetto culture and familiarizing themselves with their own should read about ichi/ichie, which is the Igbo term for extensive facial cicatrization.

So true. Imbeciles, I tell you.


and how did I know that Donzie will come with his garbage of "well where I was I have never seen this and that" like anyone cares about what the almighty Donzman has seen or havent seen and what the hell does the "thickness" of the mark matter. Someone is saying that Yorubas arent the only ones and your only lame excuse is "well other people don't have it as long or thick", who gives a shit? How does that explain anything? pathetic. Seriously dude why are you so damn ignorant?

Had it ever occured to you that it's fellow Nigerians that write these books? So you are saying they are lying for the "white man", amazing how you arge with Sista so much when you two are pretty much the same.
I can't wait til she does her own African gene test.  

The few Igbos I know with marks on their faces got it when they got sick and it fades out over them as you have to look closely to see.

tribalistic bias. So he's saying it's excusable that the igbos do it because it fades out, and is not as thick. There's no justification for marking faces with permanent scars to signify titles, but it is more reasonable to mark faces when one is sick, because the scars will supposedly fade out. . I thought any form of face marking is cruel & unusual punishment.


ghettochyk the tiny ignorant girl confined in space, hiding behind a computer desk, spewing jargonic trash, perhaps once bullied by middle-aged yoruba boys with markings on their faces, has to retort to the cyber world for her cowarded payback.
Some life you have if you think fuddled reasoning, ignorance, and curse words will get you far in life child. .

I forgot I was supposed to leave this thread.

proverbial, sorry for u but i dont know any yoruba boys.

Now stop wanking and get a life with a possible J-O-B in it.

proverbial:

tribalistic bias. So he's saying it's excusable that the igbos do it because it fades out, and is not as thick. There's no justification for marking faces with permanent scars to signify titles, but it is more reasonable to mark faces when one is sick, because the scars will supposedly fade out. . I thought any form of face marking is cruel & unusual punishment.

That's the typical hypocrite known as DonzMan for you.

as for everything else, Lmao

ghettochyk:

donzman, leave the educated fool to feel like he's smart.

now that your famous, can i get your autograph?

Are there e -autographs?. . .You can get those! 

Ikomi:

Yeah donz they say your at the peak of your carrrier. Wad up. lol. And since u've been there u forgot umunna. Na so u be. lol

Haha. . .It's the kind of fame that comes without wealth, useless fame I'll say!

@Thiefofhearts

What are you talking about?. . .Why don't you ask TerraCotta if he's seen any "Ichie" with tribal marks or if he has seen any Ichie at all in his life. He's the kind of individual that tells stories out of books, never experienced nothing, he knows it too! How can you be Nigerian but depend on books written by foreigners to teach you about your culture?. . .Talk about absurd. I've lived amongst more Igbos than the person who wrote that book, why should I believe him in opposition to my experience!

tribalistic bias.  So he's saying it's excusable that the igbos do it because it fades out, and is not as thick.

First off, I never said anything about the mark being better when it's thick or not. I was just describing how the few Igbo marks I've seen are/why they get them. I never tried to justify anything, they often get the marks as kids when they're having convulsions, they're marks about 1/4 inch, nothing like tribal marks and these are things they did way back in the day!

again no one cares about your experience. You are NOT the be all and end all of Igbo history. You're not even 25 yet and you think you know it all. You dont. That's how you and your other ridiculous crew was going on about how you dont have naming ceramonies but christenings. Please tell me what exactly it is you guys did before Christianity came to Nigeria? Abi they didnt have childen around that time in your land? Were they waiting for the missionaries before they had children? or maybe you didnt name kids and rather just gave them a number to identify themselves.

Had it ever occured to you that maybe an Igbo person wrote the book he(Terra) referred to? What would be your excuse then? That the author is lying cos the mighty Donzman hasnt seen it himself? seriously just be quiet.

A sensible person would go indepth about ichi/ichie marks and their own signifcance, but your only excuse was "oh but they arent as deep as Yoruba ones", who CARES? A mark is a freaking mark. Who gives a damn that it was for a sick child? How does that change anything? Are Africans the only one who ever had illnesses? Why dont you see Europeans with "faint marks" on their faces in the name of "curing sickness". Nonsense.

I wouldnt have even cared if this thread true intention was to learn but it's so obvious that it wasnt. Even a fellow Igbo man (Iman/4Play) pointed that out. You guys need to stop embarrassing yourselves cos I cant always be around to help you. shio.

Donzman:

these are things they did way back in the day!

So? Quote the place where anyone said that they still do it? Wasnt the point of mentioning it to show that it wasnt just something exclusive to the Yorubas? Back in the day or not, that doesnt change the fact that it was done over there also.

You nasty people always change everything into a competition and it's ironic how it blows up in your faces when it turns out the same people you think you are fighting against arent that different from you.

Had it ever occured to you that maybe an Igbo person wrote the book he(Terra) referred to? What would be your excuse then? That the author is lying because the mighty Donzman hasnt seen it himself? seriously just be quiet

I guarantee you an Igbo person didn't write that book, you want to place a bet?

P.S.: Why should I believe anything contrary to what I've experienced? Why should another person's experience count more than mine? Because he/she wrote it on  a website? Donzman needs a break!

Who is competing with you here? Wasn't I the one who even mentioned the marks on the faces of some Igbos (note I do not call them tribal marks). They're just marks people have on their body due to religious beliefs concerning sickness and all of that. Heck you've probably seen native doctors with those kind of marks, it's nothing like the tribal marks you see on the Yorubas which this thread is meant to discuss.


Stop catching feelings, I didn't start this thread, I'm just telling you how the Igbo marks are. Will you like me to tell you they're like the Yoruba marks when they're not?. . .Na wa oh!

Again a mark is a mark. whether it's not as thick or long or whatever doesnt mean jackshit.

Donzman:

Donzman needs a break!

Finally. Now please sharrap over there. G'night.

You're just mad you do not have as much first hand experience as I do, I can teach you but you ought to quit catching feelings.

Yes that must be it. Stfu.

Lol @ competing with you. Igbos have marks but it's not the same as the Yoruba marks and it does not serve the same purpose, and for some reason people say it's ethnic bias. Na wa oh!. . .Donzman will just stop discussing anything ethnic on NL!

All these name calling and drama over Tribal marks , Oh well keep it up guys I'm learning so much about different cultures.

IT has now become an offence for parents or guardians to put tattoo or inscribe tribal marks in their children or wards in Ekiti State.
Speaker of the House of Assembly, Mr. Friday Aderemi, said Ekiti was the ninth state in the federation to pass the bill, maintaining that the new law would help children in the state to develop in all ramifications.




http://odili.net/news/source/2006/jun/12/15.html

Found an old heart warming article.
Just like I applauded the Igbos for passing a law in the fifties banning ill treatment of anybody designated an Osu.
I applaud the former governor for outlawing this barbaric act of facial scarifications
Someone has to stand up for those defenseless kids and I'm glad he did.
Let those who wish to uphold the "culture",give the stupid eleven eleven marks to themselves
The fact that some people saw it fit to make changes proves that those marks are now useless in this day and age.
No child should walk around looking like they were attacked by a wild animal.

babyosisi:

IT has now become an offence for parents or guardians to put tattoo or inscribe tribal marks in their children or wards in Ekiti State.
Speaker of the House of Assembly, Mr. Friday Aderemi, said Ekiti was the ninth state in the federation to pass the bill, maintaining that the new law would help children in the state to develop in all ramifications.




http://odili.net/news/source/2006/jun/12/15.html

Found an old heart warming article.
Just like I applauded the Igbos for passing a law in the fifties banning ill treatment of anybody designated an Osu.
I applaud the former governor for outlawing this barbaric act of facial scarifications
Someone has to stand up for those defenseless kids and I'm glad he did.
Let those who wish to uphold the "culture",give the stupid eleven eleven marks to themselves
The fact that some people saw it fit to make changes proves that those marks are now useless in this day and age.
No child should walk around looking like they were attacked by a wild animal.
there u have it!!

Donzman:

Are there e -autographs?. . .You can get those!

cool. It shud say something like: to my #1 fan (GC) on NL

Donzman:

.Donzman will just stop discussing anything ethnic on Nairaland!

Praise God.

Stick to Financial/Poltical threads.

osisi, Terra already mentioned that if you bothered to read his post.

next thing on the agenda to be banned? Hopefully female circumsion.

Donzman:


You also need to stop reading too many books and spend sometime IN Nigeria so you can familiarize yourself. Nobody marks their faces with permanent scars just to signify titles. I know OLD titleholders where I come from, they have nothing on their faces. The few Igbos I know with marks on their faces got it when they got sick and it fades out over them as you have to look closely to see. QUIT reading too many books, they're for whites/foreigners who want to feel like they know when they really don't.

Why am I not surprised that this Donzman character would happily display his ignorance again? This is not the first time I've had to teach you about Igbo culture, and I get the feeling it probably won't be the last. It's not a surprise that you would ask people to "quit reading too many books" when you know so little. Ask any older members of your family what ichie marks are and hopefully they'll be able to teach you something. This has nothing to do with books--most people truly familiar with Igbo title-taking would know about them. Of course you haven't met any old titleholders with marks--I specifically said "it is very rare to see a traditionally tattooed ozo titleholder these days, as the practice is dying out."

I guarantee you an Igbo person didn't write that book, you want to place a bet?

I hope you're not so careless about betting in real life. You can read about ichie in [b]dozens [/b]of books written by Igbos and non-Igbos alike, from Chinua Achebe's "Things Fall Apart" to Prof. Adiele Afigbo's many books, and an 18th century reference in Olaudah Equiano's autobiography. Even better, here's a memorial website of one ozo titled man with ichi tatoos who recently died. He's believed to have been the last living 'ichie', although there's no actual proof of that.

In case it's too much effort to expect that some of our fellow Nairalanders will read the whole site, here's the relevant part:

Okpuwe OzoOhaezue OzoOkongwu OzoUwa (aka: Ozo Ochi-gburugburu) died last Friday evenning November 28, 2003 in Enugu, Nigeria. Papa was 95 years old. He is survived by his wife, childrens, grandchildrens, greatgrandchildrens, brothers and sisters. He had a full good Life.

Papa, a Nigerian with "Ozo" cultural, traditional and "Ozo gbuluichi" beautification markings all over his face from early age,

Perhaps Donzman will come in and hem and haw that the website couldn't possibly be depicting a titled Igbo man. Perhaps the website was made by and for white people who only know about Nigeria through books?

This thread was about the significance of Yoruba cicatrization. I think I answered the initial question, whether it was sincere or not. Donzman's lack of knowledge about traditional Igbo culture is not the point of the discussion. It's shameful to even have this discussion with someone who claims to be from this culture. Whether ichi marks are "better" or "worse" doesn't interest me--the whole purpose of mentioning them was to show that the practice of cicatrization is/was found throughout Nigeria, as indicated by the earlier Hausa-Fulani, Edo, Igala etc. examples. If you'd like to learn more, open a new thread and continue to celebrate your ignorance in public. I'll be happy to teach you even more interesting facts you probably don't know.

@ Thread: funnily enough, the Washington Post ran an article on this subject just yesterday. It was titled "Tradition of Scarification Begins to Fade in Nigeria". Here's an excerpt:

"If I am in another place and I see someone with marks like mine, of course I will have a soft spot for that person," said Ade Muyiwa Adegoke, a well-known Yoruba actor with triple lines radiating from his mouth.

Adegoke said he is not ashamed of his scars, which along with a bracelet of beads mark him as local royalty. But he has decided not to mark his children.

"These days, it is not necessary that anyone can look at your face and tell where you are from," Adegoke said. "And I did not want to hurt my children."

@ Osisi--I believe I mentioned that traditional markings were banned in Ekiti state last year. I don't recall anybody suggesting that making ethnic marks is a good thing in this thread Perhaps you can point out the post that gave you that idea. Most people also made it clear that it is a dying tradition--explaining the reasons behind a particular belief isn't exactly the same thing as endorsing it.

Donzie rather believe his own hype so I doubt he'll bother to read all that.

TerraCotta:

explaining the reasons behind a particular belief isn't exactly the same thing as endorsing it.

ThiefOfHearts:

Donzie rather believe his own hype so I doubt he'll bother to read all that.

Hey you--feels like ages since we last spoke

What is d significance of d tattoo marks?

Mustay, dont even compare those two, tatoo and tribal marks are completely different. One involves the deep laceration of the skin, that is visible, while the other is less visible.

TerraCotta:

Why am I not surprised that this Donzman character would happily display his ignorance again? This is not the first time I've had to teach you about Igbo culture, and I get the feeling it probably won't be the last. It's not a surprise that you would ask people to "quit reading too many books" when you know so little. Ask any older members of your family what ichie marks are and hopefully they'll be able to teach you something. This has nothing to do with books--most people truly familiar with Igbo title-taking would know about them. Of course you haven't met any old titleholders with marks--I specifically said "it is very rare to see a traditionally tattooed ozo titleholder these days, as the practice is dying out."

I hope you're not so careless about betting in real life. You can read about ichie in [b]dozens [/b]of books written by Igbos and non-Igbos alike, from Chinua Achebe's "Things Fall Apart" to Prof. Adiele Afigbo's many books, and an 18th century reference in Olaudah Equiano's autobiography. Even better, here's a memorial website of one ozo titled man with ichi tatoos who recently died. He's believed to have been the last living 'ichie', although there's no actual proof of that.

In case it's too much effort to expect that some of our fellow Nairalanders will read the whole site, here's the relevant part:

Perhaps Donzman will come in and hem and haw that the website couldn't possibly be depicting a titled Igbo man. Perhaps the website was made by and for white people who only know about Nigeria through books?

This thread was about the significance of Yoruba cicatrization. I think I answered the initial question, whether it was sincere or not. Donzman's lack of knowledge about traditional Igbo culture is not the point of the discussion. It's shameful to even have this discussion with someone who claims to be from this culture. Whether ichi marks are "better" or "worse" doesn't interest me--the whole purpose of mentioning them was to show that the practice of cicatrization is/was found throughout Nigeria, as indicated by the earlier Hausa-Fulani, Edo, Igala etc. examples. If you'd like to learn more, open a new thread and continue to celebrate your ignorance in public. I'll be happy to teach you even more interesting facts you probably don't know.

@ Thread: funnily enough, the Washington Post ran an article on this subject just yesterday. It was titled "Tradition of Scarification Begins to Fade in Nigeria". Here's an excerpt:

"If I am in another place and I see someone with marks like mine, of course I will have a soft spot for that person," said Ade Muyiwa Adegoke, a well-known Yoruba actor with triple lines radiating from his mouth.

Adegoke said he is not ashamed of his scars, which along with a bracelet of beads mark him as local royalty. But he has decided not to mark his children.

"These days, it is not necessary that anyone can look at your face and tell where you are from," Adegoke said. "And I did not want to hurt my children."

@ Osisi--I believe I mentioned that traditional markings were banned in Ekiti state last year. I don't recall anybody suggesting that making ethnic marks is a good thing in this thread Perhaps you can point out the post that gave you that idea. Most people also made it clear that it is a dying tradition--explaining the reasons behind a particular belief isn't exactly the same thing as endorsing it.

sorry I missed it dear.
I'm scared of long posts with big big grammar

ThiefOfHearts:

osisi, Terra already mentioned that if you bothered to read his post.

next thing on the agenda to be banned? Hopefully female circumsion.

As for female circumcision.
That just sickens me that in this day and age,some individuals are still doing this to girls?
Thank God for those of us with enlightened parents,I would have been walking around mutilated ,TUFIAKWA.

Some of these our so called culture ought to just die away.

Ndipe what d hell is d difference?