Christian Prince: The Quran Preservation - Standard Narrative has Holes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBXXCKB6uLM

Hadith: Ubayy ibn Ka'b feel doubt because of ahruf
https://sunnah.com/muslim/6/332

Hadith: Muhammad forgot verses and surah
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/66/62

Hadith: Muhammad cut the hands and feet and gouge the eyes of thieves:
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/56/227

Hadith: a thief who steals an egg or a rope, his hand is to be cut off.
https://sunnah.com/bukhari/86/29

What about our politiefians that steal public funds and misappropriate public resources

Well.. This would inevitably be buried in the archives of Nairaland as the LOC will not allow it to make the cut.

Comments:
Dr. Yasir Qadhi is a true academic. They hate him for his honesty. Mimi threw him under the bus. With friends like this who needs enemies.

AntiChristian:


Hope this won't be buried too?

I the LORD do not change
Malachi 3:6

Numbers 23:19
God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

Joshua
Chapter 2
8-21
8 And before they were laid down, she came up unto them upon the roof; 9 And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you. 10 For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you, when ye came out of Egypt; and what ye did unto the two kings of the Amorites, that were on the other side Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom ye utterly destroyed. 11 And as soon as we had heard these things, our hearts did melt, neither did there remain any more courage in any man, because of you: for the LORD your God, he is God in heaven above, and in earth beneath. 12 Now therefore, I pray you, swear unto me by the LORD, since I have showed you kindness, that ye will also show kindness unto my father's house, and give me a true token: 13 And that ye will save alive my father, and my mother, and my brethren, and my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death. 14 And the men answered her, Our life for yours, if ye utter not this our business. And it shall be, when the LORD hath given us the land, that we will deal kindly and truly with thee. 15 Then she let them down by a cord through the window: for her house was upon the town wall, and she dwelt upon the wall. 16 And she said unto them, Get you to the mountain, lest the pursuers meet you; and hide yourselves there three days, until the pursuers be returned: and afterward may ye go your way. 17 And the men said unto her, We will be blameless of this thine oath which thou hast made us swear. 18 Behold, when we come into the land, thou shalt bind this line of scarlet thread in the window which thou didst let us down by: and thou shalt bring thy father, and thy mother, and thy brethren, and all thy father's household, home unto thee. 19 And it shall be, that whosoever shall go out of the doors of thy house into the street, his blood shall be upon his head, and we will be guiltless: and whosoever shall be with thee in the house, his blood shall be on our head, if any hand be upon him. 20 And if thou utter this our business, then we will be quit of thine oath which thou hast made us to swear. 21 And she said, According unto your words, so be it. And she sent them away, and they departed: and she bound the scarlet line in the window.

Now several things to note, notice how the people are so scared of Joshua's people. They are all filled with terror because of the acts committed by Moses and Joshua under God's commands. Now what do Christians have to say about this? Look how their God installed terror into the hearts of everyone, women and children, and these people had no hope of survival! Even if they were kids and women who did not do anything. This is enough evidence of the terror that was going around under God's command. Did God Change from this now?

Joshua
Chapter 6
17-27
17 And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent. 18 And ye, in any wise keep yourselves from the accursed thing, lest ye make yourselves accursed, when ye take of the accursed thing, and make the camp of Israel a curse, and trouble it. 19 But all the silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are consecrated unto the LORD: they shall come into the treasury of the LORD. 20 So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city. 21 And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. 22 But Joshua had said unto the two men that had spied out the country, Go into the harlot's house, and bring out thence the woman, and all that she hath, as ye sware unto her. 23 And the young men that were spies went in, and brought out Rahab, and her father, and her mother, and her brethren, and all that she had; and they brought out all her kindred, and left them without the camp of Israel. 24 And they burnt the city with fire, and all that was therein: only the silver, and the gold, and the vessels of brass and of iron, they put into the treasury of the house of the LORD. 25 And Joshua saved Rahab the harlot alive, and her father's household, and all that she had; and she dwelleth in Israel even unto this day; because she hid the messengers, which Joshua sent to spy out Jericho. 26 And Joshua adjured them at that time, saying, Cursed be the man before the LORD, that riseth up and buildeth this city Jericho: he shall lay the foundation thereof in his firstborn, and in his youngest son shall he set up the gates of it. 27 So the LORD was with Joshua; and his fame was noised throughout all the country.

So Joshua and his army storm a city, they kill everyone as usual accept the harlot and her family. Is this not terror?Did God Change from this now?

Joshua
Chapter 8
1-29
1 And the LORD said unto Joshua, Fear not, neither be thou dismayed: take all the people of war with thee, and arise, go up to Ai: see, I have given into thy hand the king of Ai, and his people, and his city, and his land: 2 And thou shalt do to Ai and her king as thou didst unto Jericho and her king: only the spoil thereof, and the cattle thereof, shall ye take for a prey unto yourselves: lay thee an ambush for the city behind it.

3 So Joshua arose, and all the people of war, to go up against Ai: and Joshua chose out thirty thousand mighty men of valor, and sent them away by night. 4 And he commanded them, saying, Behold, ye shall lie in wait against the city, even behind the city: go not very far from the city, but be ye all ready: 5 And I, and all the people that are with me, will approach unto the city: and it shall come to pass, when they come out against us, as at the first, that we will flee before them, 6 (For they will come out after us) till we have drawn them from the city; for they will say, They flee before us, as at the first: therefore we will flee before them. 7 Then ye shall rise up from the ambush, and seize upon the city: for the LORD your God will deliver it into your hand. 8 And it shall be, when ye have taken the city, that ye shall set the city on fire: according to the commandment of the LORD shall ye do. See, I have commanded you. 9 Joshua therefore sent them forth: and they went to lie in ambush, and abode between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of Ai: but Joshua lodged that night among the people. 10 And Joshua rose up early in the morning, and numbered the people, and went up, he and the elders of Israel, before the people to Ai. 11 And all the people, even the people of war that were with him, went up, and drew nigh, and came before the city, and pitched on the north side of Ai: now there was a valley between them and Ai. 12 And he took about five thousand men, and set them to lie in ambush between Bethel and Ai, on the west side of the city. 13 And when they had set the people, even all the host that was on the north of the city, and their liers in wait on the west of the city, Joshua went that night into the midst of the valley. 14 And it came to pass, when the king of Ai saw it, that they hasted and rose up early, and the men of the city went out against Israel to battle, he and all his people, at a time appointed, before the plain; but he wist not that there were liers in ambush against him behind the city. 15 And Joshua and all Israel made as if they were beaten before them, and fled by the way of the wilderness. 16 And all the people that were in Ai were called together to pursue after them: and they pursued after Joshua, and were drawn away from the city. 17 And there was not a man left in Ai or Bethel, that went not out after Israel: and they left the city open, and pursued after Israel. 18 And the LORD said unto Joshua, Stretch out the spear that is in thy hand toward Ai; for I will give it into thine hand. And Joshua stretched out the spear that he had in his hand toward the city. 19 And the ambush arose quickly out of their place, and they ran as soon as he had stretched out his hand: and they entered into the city, and took it, and hasted and set the city on fire. 20 And when the men of Ai looked behind them, they saw, and, behold, the smoke of the city ascended up to heaven, and they had no power to flee this way or that way: and the people that fled to the wilderness turned back upon the pursuers. 21 And when Joshua and all Israel saw that the ambush had taken the city, and that the smoke of the city ascended, then they turned again, and slew the men of Ai. 22 And the other issued out of the city against them; so they were in the midst of Israel, some on this side, and some on that side: and they smote them, so that they let none of them remain or escape.

23 And the king of Ai they took alive, and brought him to Joshua. 24 And it came to pass, when Israel had made an end of slaying all the inhabitants of Ai in the field, in the wilderness wherein they chased them, and when they were all fallen on the edge of the sword, until they were consumed, that all the Israelites returned unto Ai, and smote it with the edge of the sword. 25 And so it was, that all that fell that day, both of men and women, were twelve thousand, even all the men of Ai. 26 For Joshua drew not his hand back, wherewith he stretched out the spear, until he had utterly destroyed all the inhabitants of Ai. 27 Only the cattle and the spoil of that city Israel took for a prey unto themselves, according unto the word of the LORD which he commanded Joshua. 28 And Joshua burnt Ai, and made it an heap for ever, even a desolation unto this day. 29 And the king of Ai he hanged on a tree until eventide: and as soon as the sun was down, Joshua commanded that they should take his carcass down from the tree, and cast it at the entering of the gate of the city, and raise thereon a great heap of stones, that remaineth unto this day.

Another battle, another massacre of women and children. Has God Changed from this now?

Joshua
Chapter 10
28-43
28 And that day Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain: and he did to the king of Makkedah as he did unto the king of Jericho. 29 Then Joshua passed from Makkedah, and all Israel with him, unto Libnah, and fought against Libnah: 30 And the LORD delivered it also, and the king thereof, into the hand of Israel; and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain in it; but did unto the king thereof as he did unto the king of Jericho. 31 And Joshua passed from Libnah, and all Israel with him, unto Lachish, and encamped against it, and fought against it: 32 And the LORD delivered Lachish into the hand of Israel, which took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein, according to all that he had done to Libnah. 33 Then Horam king of Gezer came up to help Lachish; and Joshua smote him and his people, until he had left him none remaining. 34 And from Lachish Joshua passed unto Eglon, and all Israel with him; and they encamped against it, and fought against it: 35 And they took it on that day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein he utterly destroyed that day, according to all that he had done to Lachish. 36 And Joshua went up from Eglon, and all Israel with him, unto Hebron; and they fought against it: 37 And they took it, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof, and all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining, according to all that he had done to Eglon; but destroyed it utterly, and all the souls that were therein. 38 And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, to Debir; and fought against it: 39 And he took it, and the king thereof, and all the cities thereof; and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls that were therein; he left none remaining: as he had done to Hebron, so he did to Debir, and to the king thereof; as he had done also to Libnah, and to her king. 40 So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs, and all their kings: he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded. 41 And Joshua smote them from Kadeshbarnea even unto Gaza, and all the country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon. 42 And all these kings and their land did Joshua take at one time, because the LORD God of Israel fought for Israel. 43 And Joshua returned, and all Israel with him, unto the camp to Gilgal.

Same old story, more massacres, leaving NO SOULS ALIVE. I wonder what Christians have to say to this? They cannot say anything, they believe this happened, and they believe in this God who they claim to be Jesus or His partner.

Has God Changed from all these now?

Allah knows nothing than fighting and killing and that's what he commands you his followers to be doing:
"And fight in the cause of Allah and know that Allah is Hearing and Knowing."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 244)

"O you who have believed, fight those adjacent to you of the disbelievers and let them find in you harshness. And know that Allah is with the righteous."
(QS. At-Tawba 9: Verse 123)

"Indeed, Allah loves those who fight in His cause in a row as though they are a [single] structure joined firmly."
(QS. As-Saff 61: Verse 4)
Those who believe, fight in the cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Satan. So fight you against the friends of Satan. Ever feeble indeed is the plot of Satan.
- Quran 4:76

Fight those who believe not in Allah or the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission and are subdued.
-Quran 9:29

Allah is a killer:

"And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 191)

"They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper."
(QS. An-Nisaa 4: Verse 89)


"You will find others who wish to obtain security from you and [to] obtain security from their people. Every time they are returned to [the influence of] disbelief, they fall back into it. So if they do not withdraw from you or offer you peace or restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them. And those - We have made for you against them a clear authorization."
(QS. An-Nisaa 4: Verse 91)

Allah said he was a killer:
"And you did not kill them, but it was Allah who killed them. And you threw not, [O Muhammad], when you threw, but it was Allah who threw that He might test the believers with a good test. Indeed, Allah is Hearing and Knowing."
(QS. Al-Anfaal 8: Verse 17)


"And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."
(QS. At-Tawba 9: Verse 5)

Allah is the father of terrorism, he's the one Boko Haram are following in beheading their captives
"[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, I am with you, so strengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them every fingertip."
(QS. Al-Anfaal 8: Verse 12)

Allah even shared in the spoils of war and gather it for himself.


"They ask you, [O Muhammad], about the bounties [of war]. Say, The bounties is for Allah and the Messenger. So fear Allah and amend that which is between you and obey Allah and His Messenger, if you should be believers."
(QS. Al-Anfaal 8: Verse 1)


And Allah is not OK with one-tenth, Allah the thief and the killer demands 1/5th

"And know that anything you obtain of war booty - then indeed, for Allah is one fifth of it and for the Messenger and for [his] near relatives and the orphans, the needy, and the [stranded] traveler, if you have believed in Allah and in that which We sent down to Our Servant on the day of criterion - the day when the two armies met. And Allah, over all things, is competent."
(QS. Al-Anfaal 8: Verse 41)

Koran was sent down to Mohamed but was completed by Uthman. And, even though Uthman compiled it into a uniform Volume, it still took other chains of 'narrators' to convert it into several other versions.

'Perfectly Preserved' even though Uthman chose what to put in his copy and what not to retain?

Were the burnt copies not also koran? (Moslems who kill others for burning the Koran please answer this question)

What happened to Hafsa's copy of the Koran? Why did Uthman not adopt it? Why did he decide to have a 'REVISED' version of the Koran?

"Many (of the passages) of the Qur’an that were sent down were known by those who died on the day of Yamama . . . but they were not known (by those who) survived them, nor were they written down, nor had Abu Bakr, Umar or Uthman (by that time) collected the Qur’an, nor were they found with even one (person) after them."
(Ibn Abi Dawud, Kitab al-Masahif).

Abu Bakr had decided to gather what remained of the koran in order to prevent more from being lost, and he appointed Zaid ibn Thabit to this task. After Zaid completed his compilation around 634 AD, it remained in Abu Bakr’s possession until his death, when it was passed on to Caliph Umar. When Umar died, it was given to Hafsa, a widow of Mohamed.

Abu Bakr text was closer to Mohamed's time than Uthman's.
Why did Uthman destroy it?
Why didn't he consider it a 'true copy' to be retained and reproduced for circulation?
Was politics and other considerations at play?
Did he have Allah's approval to do so?

sagenaija:
Abu Bakr text was closer to Mohamed's time than Uthman's.
Why did Uthman destroy it?
Why didn't he consider it a 'true copy' to be retained and reproduced for circulation?
Was politics and other considerations at play?
Did he have Allah's approval to do so?

STOP LOOKING FOR ANSWERS IN JUPITER WHEN THEY ARE RIGHT UNDER YOUR NOSE.

UTHMAAN DESTROYED THE ORIGINAL COPY AFTER A MORE STANDARDIZED ONE HAD BEEN PRODUCED.

THE STANDARDIZED VERSION HAS EXACTLY THE SAME VERSES AND CHAPTERS AS THE ORIGINAL. DIACRITICAL MARKS AND PROPER ARRANGEMENT TO MAKE FOR EASIER RECITATION ARE THE ONLY DIFFERENCES.

NOW LISTEN, IF YOU KNOW ISLAM YOU'LL KNOW HOW JEALOUSLY MUSLIMS HOLD THEIR BOOK. UTHMAAN COULD NEVER, I MEAN NEVER HAVE THOUGHT OF CHANGING EVEN A WORD OF THE QUR'AN. TO ACHIEVE WHAT?

IF HE OR ANYONE HAD TRIED IT, THE ORIGINAL WILL SURFACE ALMOST IMMEDIATELY. WHY? IT HAD ALL BEEN MEMORIZED BY THOUSANDS OF MEN.
HE'LL THEN HAVE HAD TO FACE THE MUSLIMS' WRATH. WHAT SANE RULER DOES THAT?

THE QUR'AN IS INIMITABLE,
THE QURAN IS THE MOST METICULOUSLY PRESERVED BOOK ON EARTH,
BURN ALL COPIES OF IT, HARD AND SOFT COPIES, AND IT'LL BE REPRODUCED IMMEDIATELY.
AS YOU READ THIS, IT'S BEING MEMORIZED
IN THE MOSQUE CLOSE TO YOU, THAT'S WHY IT'LL BE HERE MANY MANY YEARS AFTER YOU'RE GONE.

YOU SLEEPLESS NIGHTS POSTING ALL THESE ON THIS TINY CORNER OF NAIRALAND WILL EVENTUALLY BE IN VAIN.

STOP WASTING YOUR TIME

motayoayinde:

UTHMAAN DESTROYED THE ORIGINAL COPY AFTER A MORE STANDARDIZED ONE HAD BEEN PRODUCED.

THE STANDARDIZED VERSION HAS EXACTLY THE SAME VERSES AND CHAPTERS AS THE ORIGINAL.

IF HE OR ANYONE HAD TRIED IT, THE ORIGINAL WILL SURFACE ALMOST IMMEDIATELY. WHY? IT HAD ALL BEEN MEMORIZED BY THOUSANDS OF MEN.
HE'LL THEN HAVE HAD TO FACE THE MUSLIMS' WRATH. WHAT SANE RULER DOES THAT?

THE QUR'AN IS INIMITABLE,
THE QURAN IS THE MOST METICULOUSLY PRESERVED BOOK ON EARTH,

YOU SLEEPLESS NIGHTS POSTING ALL THESE ON THIS TINY CORNER OF NAIRALAND WILL EVENTUALLY BE IN VAIN.

STOP WASTING YOUR TIME

If it's my time why advise me on how to spend it?

It’s simply false to say that the Koran has been perfectly preserved. It is a LIE to say that the 'standardized' version has 'exactly' the same verses and chapters as the 'original'.

Which 'original'? Mohamed NEVER wrote down the Koran. Others memorised or wrote his recitations down. So, there was no complete manuscript of the Koran during this time.           

When we turn to the early Moslem sources, we see that entire chapters of the Koran have been lost, that large sections of chapters are missing, that individual verses were forgotten, and that words and phrases were changed. Indeed, we know from Moslem reports that Mohamed's most trusted teachers couldn’t even agree on which chapters were to be included in the Koran!

Let's start from here:
Why did Abu Bakr ask for a compilation of the Koran?

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
If it's my time why advise me on how to spend it?

It’s simply false to say that the Koran has been perfectly preserved. It is a LIE to say that the 'standardized' version has 'exactly' the same verses and chapters as the 'original'.

Which 'original'? Mohamed NEVER wrote down the Koran. Others memorised or wrote his recitations down. So, there was no complete manuscript of the Koran during this time.           

When we turn to the early Moslem sources, we see that entire chapters of the Koran have been lost, that large sections of chapters are missing, that individual verses were forgotten, and that words and phrases were changed. Indeed, we know from Moslem reports that Mohamed's most trusted teachers couldn’t even agree on which chapters were to be included in the Koran!

Let's start from here:
Why did Abu Bakr ask for a compilation of
the Koran?

ABUBAKAR DIDN'T ASK FOR THE COMPILATION. SHAME!

YOU HAVE LITTLE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBJECT YOU'VE DELVED INTO (Uloomul Qur'an).

ABUBAKAR WAS VERY RELUCTANT ABOUT THE COMPILATION.

GO BACK TO THE BOOKS (not sham videos), DO PROPER RESEARCH. IF YOU FIGURE OUT WHO ACTUALLY ASKED FOR THE COMPILATION, YOU CAN COME BACK WITH A PROPER QUESTION TO GET A PROPER LECTURE.

motayoayinde:


ABUBAKAR DIDN'T ASK FOR THE COMPILATION. SHAME!

YOU HAVE LITTLE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUBJECT YOU'VE DELVED INTO (Uloomul Qur'an).

ABUBAKAR WAS VERY RELUCTANT ABOUT THE COMPILATION.

GO BACK TO THE BOOKS (not sham videos), DO PROPER RESEARCH. IF YOU FIGURE OUT WHO ACTUALLY ASKED FOR THE COMPILATION, YOU CAN COME BACK WITH A PROPER QUESTION TO GET A PROPER LECTURE.

I know that your religion and its history confuses many of you. As a result you choose only what you want 'hoping' that it is the right one.

There are so many and varied traditions that it's like a buffet, so each person or group feels free to choose whichever they want.

BUT there are some that are generally accepted. And this Abu Bakr's event is one.

Why you guys DENY things to save your lies is unbelievable.

Now, react to this:
Here is a hadith (Vol. 6 No. 201, pages 162-164, Translated by Dr. Muhsin Khan) from Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari, one of the scribes of the Revelation: Abu Bakr sent for me after the casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra were killed). ‘Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said: “Umar has come to me and said, the People have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be some casualties among the Qurra (those who know the Qur’an by heart) at other places, whereby a large part of the Qur’an may be lost, unless you collect it. And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur’an.’ Abu Bakr added, ‘I said to ‘Umar, “How can I do something which Allah’s Apostle has not done?” ‘Umar said (to me) “By Allah, it is (really) a good thing”. So ‘Umar kept on pressing trying to persuade me to accept his proposal, till Allah opened my bosom for it and I had the same opinion as ‘Umar’. (Zaid bin Thabit added-) ‘Umar was sitting with him (Abu Bakr) and was not speaking. Abu Bakr said (to me), ‘You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness); and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah’s Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur’an and collect it (in one manuscript)’. By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur’an. I said to both of them, ‘How dare you do a thing which the Prophet has not done?’ Abu Bakr said, ‘By Allah, it is (really) a good thing. So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar. So I started locating the Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, and leafstalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuzaima two verses of Suraat-at-Tauba which I had not found with anybody else (and they were 9:128-129).The manuscript on which the Qur’an was collected, remained with Abu Bakr till Allah took him unto Him, and then with ‘Umar till Allah took him unto Him, and finally it remained with Hafsa, ‘Umar’s daughter.

You asked for books. That is from one of them. You have to deal with it now, don't you?

Now, are you ashamed of yourself and ready to admit that you were wrong in this?

p

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
I know that your religion and its history confuses many of you. As a result you choose only what you want 'hoping' that it is the right one.

There are so many and varied traditions that it's like a buffet, so each person or group feels free to choose whichever they want.

BUT there are some that are generally accepted. And this Abu Bakr's event is one.

Why you guys DENY things to save your lies is unbelievable.

Now, react to this:
Here is a hadith (Vol. 6 No. 201, pages 162-164, Translated by Dr. Muhsin Khan) from Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated Zaid bin Thabit Al-Ansari, one of the scribes of the Revelation: Abu Bakr sent for me after the casualties among the warriors (of the battle) of Yamama (where a great number of Qurra were killed). ‘Umar was present with Abu Bakr who said: “Umar has come to me and said, the People have suffered heavy casualties on the day of (the battle of) Yamama, and I am afraid that there will be some casualties among the Qurra (those who know the Qur’an by heart) at other places, whereby a large part of the Qur’an may be lost, unless you collect it. And I am of the opinion that you should collect the Qur’an.’ Abu Bakr added, ‘I said to ‘Umar, “How can I do something which Allah’s Apostle has not done?” ‘Umar said (to me) “By Allah, it is (really) a good thing”. So ‘Umar kept on pressing trying to persuade me to accept his proposal, till Allah opened my bosom for it and I had the same opinion as ‘Umar’. (Zaid bin Thabit added-) ‘Umar was sitting with him (Abu Bakr) and was not speaking. Abu Bakr said (to me), ‘You are a wise young man and we do not suspect you (of telling lies or of forgetfulness); and you used to write the Divine Inspiration for Allah’s Apostle. Therefore, look for the Qur’an and collect it (in one manuscript)’. By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur’an. I said to both of them, ‘How dare you do a thing which the Prophet has not done?’ Abu Bakr said, ‘By Allah, it is (really) a good thing. So I kept on arguing with him about it till Allah opened my bosom for that which He had opened the bosoms of Abu Bakr and ‘Umar. So I started locating the Quranic material and collecting it from parchments, scapula, and leafstalks of date palms and from the memories of men (who knew it by heart). I found with Khuzaima two verses of Suraat-at-Tauba which I had not found with anybody else (and they were 9:128-129).The manuscript on which the Qur’an was collected, remained with Abu Bakr till Allah took him unto Him, and then with ‘Umar till Allah took him unto Him, and finally it remained with Hafsa, ‘Umar’s daughter.

You asked for books. That is from one of them. You have to deal with it now, don't you?

Now, are you ashamed of yourself and ready to admit that you were wrong in this?

NOPE. YOU ACTUALLY SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF FOR KNOWING HOW TO LOCATE THIS HADITH WHICH ANSWERS ALL YOUR QUESTIONS BUT PREFER TO GO ON A WILD GOOSE CHASE.

I CONGRATULATE MYSELF FOR FORCING YOU INTO THIS CORNER.

ON WHOSE IDEA IT WAS TO COMPILE THE QUR'AN, READ AGAIN, IT WAS UMAR BN ALKHATTAB. IT WAS HIS PERSISTENT PERSUASION OF ABU BAKR OVER A LONG PERIOD THAT BROUGHT IT ABOUT. THE COPY WAS KEPT WITH ABU BAKR WHO WAS THE RULER.

THE HADITH ALSO ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION ON WHY A COMPILATION INTO A BOOK FORM WAS NECESSARY.
IT WAS BECAUSE MANY OF THE "QURRA"
AND HUFFAZ (those who have memorized the Qur'an) WERE DYING. IT WAS WHAT GAVE UMAR GREAT CONCERN. IT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR DIRTY CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT IS NOT BRINGING YOU ANY RESULT.

THIS BEAUTIFUL HADITH SHOWS THE TRANSPARENCY WITH WHICH ABU BAKR AND UMAR DEALT WITH THIS MATTER, IN CHOOSING THE MOST QUALIFIED AND TRUSTWORTHY PERSON TO DO THIS DELICATE JOB.

THE HADITH DOES NOT SHOW THEM CONNIVING ON WHAT VERSES TO CHANGE OR HIDE, IT RATHER SHOWS FEAR OF ALLAH AND THE DETERMINATION TO PRESERVE EVERY WORD OF OUR GLORIOUS BOOK.

ONE OF THE MOST STRIKING THINGS ABOUT THIS HADITH IS THAT IT SHOWS
HOW THE QUR'AN WAS COLLECTED FROM PATCHES, SCAPULA AND "THE HEARTS OF MEN"

THE PRESERVATION OF THE QUR'AN IN THE HEARTS OF MEN IS WHAT SMASHES YOUR SILLY QUESTIONS AND RUBBISH THEORIES OF IGNORANCE TO PIECES.

BY THE WAY, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PRESERVATION OF THE QUR'AN AND THE COMPILATION OF THE QUR'AN.(Jam'ul Qur'an). YOU SEEM CONFUSED ABOUT WHICH OF THE TWO YOU ARE QUARRELLING (unsuccessfully) WITH.

Ragenaija WHERE ARE YOU?

BEEN WAITING FOR YOUR RESPONSE SINCE MORNING!

motayoayinde:
p

NOPE. YOU ACTUALLY SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF FOR KNOWING HOW TO LOCATE THIS HADITH WHICH ANSWERS ALL YOUR QUESTIONS BUT PREFER TO GO ON A WILD GOOSE CHASE.

I CONGRATULATE MYSELF FOR FORCING YOU INTO THIS CORNER.

ON WHOSE IDEA IT WAS TO COMPILE THE QUR'AN, READ AGAIN, IT WAS UMAR BN ALKHATTAB. IT WAS HIS PERSISTENT PERSUASION OF ABU BAKR OVER A LONG PERIOD THAT BROUGHT IT ABOUT. THE COPY WAS KEPT WITH ABU BAKR WHO WAS THE RULER.

THE HADITH ALSO ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION ON WHY A COMPILATION INTO A BOOK FORM WAS NECESSARY.
IT WAS BECAUSE MANY OF THE "QURRA"
AND HUFFAZ (those who have memorized the Qur'an) WERE DYING. IT WAS WHAT GAVE UMAR GREAT CONCERN. IT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR DIRTY CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT IS NOT BRINGING YOU ANY RESULT.

THIS BEAUTIFUL HADITH SHOWS THE TRANSPARENCY WITH WHICH ABU BAKR AND UMAR DEALT WITH THIS MATTER, IN CHOOSING THE MOST QUALIFIED AND TRUSTWORTHY PERSON TO DO THIS DELICATE JOB.

THE HADITH DOES NOT SHOW THEM CONNIVING ON WHAT VERSES TO CHANGE OR HIDE, IT RATHER SHOWS FEAR OF ALLAH AND THE DETERMINATION TO PRESERVE EVERY WORD OF OUR GLORIOUS BOOK.

ONE OF THE MOST STRIKING THINGS ABOUT THIS HADITH IS THAT IT SHOWS
HOW THE QUR'AN WAS COLLECTED FROM PATCHES, SCAPULA AND "THE HEARTS OF MEN"

THE PRESERVATION OF THE QUR'AN IN THE HEARTS OF MEN IS WHAT SMASHES YOUR SILLY QUESTIONS AND RUBBISH THEORIES OF IGNORANCE TO PIECES.

BY THE WAY, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PRESERVATION OF THE QUR'AN AND THE COMPILATION OF THE QUR'AN.(Jam'ul Qur'an). YOU SEEM CONFUSED ABOUT WHICH OF THE TWO YOU ARE QUARRELLING (unsuccessfully) WITH

I know that COMPREHENSION is a difficult thing for many of you guys.
I equally know that there are many who don't like owning up to their shortcomings and even lack shame.

Instead of logically analysing a piece, you engage in what is called "the magic of reinterpretation".

In spite of the fact that I HIGHLIGHTED portions of that hadith you still missed it. All because of what I said earlier - DENIAL in order to save face.

It is interesting that you didn't mention Zaid but Umar.

Didn't you notice that it was Zaid who said "Abu Bakr sent for me ..."? He didn't say "Umar gave me orders".

Did you see that it was Abu Bakr who told Zaid ".... you should collect the Koran"?

Did you notice also that Abu Bakr was the one who asked Zaid to "look for the Koran and collect it (in one manuscript)"?

So, if you were asked who gave order for the collection of the Koran, who would you say it is - Umar or Abu Bakr?

When it was collected who was it handed over to?

If there was concern about most of the Koran being lost after the battle of Yamama:
- Doesn't this prove that there were really very few who actually knew the Koran?
- Doesn't this prove also that they knew MEMORIZATION wasn't good enough to preserve the Koran as Moslems constantly claim today? This DEBUNKS your claim that it had been memorized by thousands of men. That claim is only a figment of your imagination.
- Does Zaid's claim not prove that THERE WAS NO SINGLE BOUND COPY OF THE KORAN at the time of Mohamed contrary to what Moslems claim today?

Why was this Abu Bakr's copy not adopted by Uthman later on?

I'm happy you talked about "THE STANDARDIZED VERSION". But I hope that you understand what you mean by what you wrote. If something is being "STANDARDIZED" does that not mean that there were some issues with the earlier position?

You claim Moslems jealousy regard their book. But it is not true. How come Egypt destroyed several koran versions when they "standardized" their adopted version in 1924?

There is a difference between what you would like to believe is the true position and what the true position is exactly. You have an idealized image of what you think Islam is but what it really is has been CLEARLY put down in her books.

You seem to be having sleepless nights over the clear message of Islam that I'm presenting here. That is why you spend more time attacking me than in addressing the issues.

Leave me to what I want to do in this "TINY CORNER OF NAIRALAND", (to use your words). Others are reading us. They will decide whether you are right or wrong. Don't spoil their interest. I think you should believe that Allah WILLED that I should be doing this at this point in time.

sagenaija:
[size=6pt][/size]
I know that COMPREHENSION is a difficult thing for many of you guys.
I equally know that there are many who don't like owning up to their shortcomings and even lack shame.

Instead of logically analysing a piece, you engage in what is called "the magic of reinterpretation".

In spite of the fact that I HIGHLIGHTED portions of that hadith you still missed it. All because of what I said earlier - DENIAL in order to save face.

It is interesting that you didn't mention Zaid but Umar.

Didn't you notice that it was Zaid who said "Abu Bakr sent for me ..."? He didn't say "Umar gave me orders".

Did you see that it was Abu Bakr who told Zaid ".... you should collect the Koran"?

Did you notice also that Abu Bakr was the one who asked Zaid to "look for the Koran and collect it (in one manuscript)"?

So, if you were asked who gave order for the collection of the Koran, who would you say it is - Umar or Abu Bakr?

When it was collected who was it handed over to?

If there was concern about most of the Koran being lost after the battle of Yamama:
- Doesn't this prove that there were really very few who actually knew the Koran?
- Doesn't this prove also that they knew MEMORIZATION wasn't good enough to preserve the Koran as Moslems constantly claim today? This DEBUNKS your claim that it had been memorized by thousands of men. That claim is only a figment of your imagination.
- Does Zaid's claim not prove that THERE WAS NO SINGLE BOUND COPY OF THE KORAN at the time of Mohamed contrary to what Moslems claim today?

Why was this Abu Bakr's copy not adopted by Uthman later on?

I'm happy you talked about "THE STANDARDIZED VERSION". But I hope that you understand what you mean by what you wrote. If something is being "STANDARDIZED" does that not mean that there were some issues with the earlier position?

You claim Moslems jealousy regard their book. But it is not true. How come Egypt destroyed several koran versions when they "standardized" their adopted version in 1924?

There is a difference between what you would like to believe is the true position and what the true position is exactly. You have an idealized image of what you think Islam is but what it really is has been CLEARLY put down in her books.

You seem to be having sleepless nights over the clear message of Islam that I'm presenting here. That is why you spend more time attacking me than in addressing the issues.

Leave me to what I want to do in this "TINY CORNER OF NAIRALAND", (to use your words). Others are reading us. They will decide whether you are right or wrong. Don't spoil their interest. I think you should believe that Allah WILLED that I should be doing this at this point in time.

AFTER WAITING THE WHOLE DAY FOR YOUR RESPONSE, KNOWING YOU'RE BADLY SHAKEN AND SCOURING THE NET FOR A FACE-SAVING POST, YOU'VE LEFT ME DISAPPOINTED WITH THIS.

IT'S SIMPLY EMPTY. NOTHING NEW, SAME DEBUNKED RANTS.

I CAN NOW SAFELY CONCLUDE THAT THERE'S NOTHING MORE IN THE KITTY.

BTW, I THINK THE "TINY CORNER OF NAIRALAND" THING REALLY GOT TO YOU.

YES, IT WAS MEANT TO.

SOME OF YOU NEED TO BE MADE TO KNOW THAT YOUR TOILINGS HERE TO CAST DOUBT ON THE QUR'AN, TO MALIGN OUR NOBLE PROPHET AND TO TURN PEOPLE AWAY FROM ISLAM IS SIMPLY NOT WORKING.

ISLAM IS THE FASTEST SPREADING FAITH ON EARTH, YOURS IS DEPLETING FAST FROM ITS ORIGIN. ATHEISM AND ALL.

IT'S TIME TO PUT OUT THE FIRE BURNING ON YOUR ROOF.

IT'S TIME TO RUN YOUR OWN RACE.

THINK ABOUT THIS.

GOOD NIGHT.

motayoayinde:


AFTER WAITING THE WHOLE DAY FOR YOUR RESPONSE, KNOWING YOU'RE BADLY SHAKEN AND SCOURING THE NET FOR A FACE-SAVING POST, YOU'VE LEFT ME DISAPPOINTED WITH THIS.

IT'S SIMPLY EMPTY. NOTHING NEW, SAME DEBUNKED RANTS.

I CAN NOW SAFELY CONCLUDE THAT THERE'S NOTHING MORE IN THE KITTY.

BTW, I THINK THE "TINY CORNER OF NAIRALAND" THING REALLY GOT TO YOU.

YES, IT WAS MEANT TO.

SOME OF YOU NEED TO BE MADE TO KNOW THAT YOUR TOILINGS HERE TO CAST DOUBT ON THE QUR'AN, TO MALIGN OUR NOBLE PROPHET AND TO TURN PEOPLE AWAY FROM ISLAM IS SIMPLY NOT WORKING.

ISLAM IS THE FASTEST SPREADING FAITH ON EARTH, YOURS IS DEPLETING FAST FROM ITS ORIGIN. ATHEISM AND ALL.

IT'S TIME TO PUT OUT THE FIRE BURNING ON YOUR ROOF.

IT'S TIME TO RUN YOUR OWN RACE.

THINK ABOUT THIS.

GOOD NIGHT.

Why wait the whole day for me? Do you live on NAIRALAND?

I don't have to go 'SCOURING' the internet to respond to you. If only you took time to check my previous topics here on nairaland you would have seen that I have enough in my quiver to demolish all arguments you can possibly present.

Debating is about presenting FACTS not attacking the opponent. You remind me of Mohamed Hijab who kept shouting at his opponent in a debate and attempted to ridicule him thinking that the louder he is the more successful he would be at winning the debate. His opponent was pointing at Allah praying - it is a subordinate who PRAYS to a superior. So, who was Allah making petition to FOR Mohamed? Hijab was busy saying that the Koran says Allah prays for and not prays to Mohamed. He completely missed the point. You missed the points here also.

You may have brainwashed yourself to accept the propaganda of Islam. You may even blind your eyes to the FACTS presented in her books. But the truth remains that OTHERS ARE READING THESE POSTS!

So, relax as long as you're sure that you know what you believe. Not what you think it is or should be. Not what your teachers feed you with. But what its books present.

At the end of the day it is not about your FANTASIES which you create as to what Islam is. It is what its books say it is.

motayoayinde:

ONE OF THE MOST STRIKING THINGS ABOUT THIS HADITH IS THAT IT SHOWS
HOW THE QUR'AN WAS COLLECTED FROM PATCHES, SCAPULA AND "THE HEARTS OF MEN"

Question:
Who were these people who wrote on patches, scapula and had it in the hearts?
Were they INSPIRED BY ALLAH to do so?

motayoayinde:
THE PRESERVATION OF THE QUR'AN IN THE HEARTS OF MEN IS WHAT SMASHES YOUR SILLY QUESTIONS AND RUBBISH THEORIES OF IGNORANCE TO PIECES.

BY THE WAY, THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE PRESERVATION OF THE QUR'AN AND THE COMPILATION OF THE QUR'AN.(Jam'ul Qur'an). YOU SEEM CONFUSED ABOUT WHICH OF THE TWO YOU ARE QUARRELLING (unsuccessfully) WITH.

WAS THE KORAN AS A BOOK KNOWN TO OTHER PEOPLE OF ITS 'TIME'?
It is a FACT that the people conquered by Moslems had no idea of the existence of a Moslem holy book in the mid 7th century.

How come this is so given the claims of Moslem traditions and apologists as to when the book was put together? Even if it was orally proclaimed it should still be clear to hearers that what was been said was from the text of a book.

There is no known complete koran dating from the first century of the Arab conquests. There is in fact the records which suggests that the Koran was a collaborative effort between a governor of Iraq - Hajjaj ibn Yusuf and Abd al-Malik, the Umayyad caliph of Syria. The compilation date was then retracted to an earlier time to give it legitimacy.

The Curious Case of ibn Shanabudh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYe7MD7gZKg
So, the Qur'an has always existed on clay tablets in heaven, but Jibreel gave Mohammed 7 different readings or Qira'at, and Allah protects the Qur'an against corruption, but it had to be written down from inscriptions on rocks, pieces of paper, trees, 1 verse was only remembered by 1 man, much of it was lost when the reciters died in battle, a goat at some verses, others were lost because people quit reciting them, a second version had to be written down after fights broke out over different recitations, and all the others had to be burned, and this time only in the Quaraishi dialect eliminating all other Qira'at, only different versions were still used, and then more versions were added, and these reciters had different readers with their own versions, and then they sank all the versions except for Hafs in the Nile, except they didn't and we have over 30, but Allah guards the Qur'an against corruption and it exists on clay tablets in heaven. It's all written down in clear Arabic except a quarter of the words are Nabatean Aramaic, or maybe the Arabic from nearer Iran and some from Iraq, and Allah guards it against corruption and it exists on clay tablets in heaven.
...and the rock inscriptions that some of the verses were used to create the written Qur'an with didn't exist until the late 7th century, and there's no evidence Mecca existed until at least the late 7th century, and Arabic wasn't used in the Hajj but Sabian was, and there were no vowels in early Arabic script to tell one Qira'at from another, but the Qur'an has always existed on clay tablets in heaven in clear Arabic and Allah guards it against corruption. Whoever said Demons don't have a sense of humor, look at Jibreel.

The Standard Quran Narrative Has HOLES in It
By: Islamic Clarity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOnF4fktDaM