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How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by SSpeter(m): 10:16am On Jan 28
This is a real life situation but I will make it as fictional as possible. I might also make it a bit difficult to comprehend because....I choose to.

Mr A was a sales officer quite good and all. So he was recommended for promotion and he got it. Ideally he was supposed to spend 9months on his new grade to be appraised again (mid term appraisal) and another 9months for recommendation. Fortunately, he performed above expectations in the mid term (in fact he had a perfect score) and that qualified him for another promotion and he got it.

Previously his line manager was 2grades above him. His line manager has spent 6years on her current grade without promotion. Mr A's rapid promotion now brought him to the present grade of his line manager.

Line managers >>>>RHs >>>>>CH...in that order. The RH position is not a grade but an office, unlike the LM position that is a grade and an office. (you must be a line manager by grade to be nominated for RH position). Recall, Mr A is not a line manager by office but he and his line manager are at par grade wise.

Also note that Mr A was getting those recommendations because his LM (let's say Ms B) was recommending him based on his performances. Now it is not unusual for you to perform outstandingly and not get promoted. Appraisals are based on attitude, aptitude and performance (Attitude cannot be quantified and to an extent subjective).

Before the lockdown, the regional head vanished (take it like that) and Mr A was appointed RH. Ms B will now report to Mr A. Ms B groomed Mr A and A was under her tutelage for a longtime. Ms B is still a line manager and has other reports like the initial Mr A under her. Sadly they are not performing hence Ms B is not performing cos individual performances makes up Ms B's performance.

Mr A has other LM reporting to him and he has issued Ms B several queries due to PF. During virtual strategy sessions Mr A will criticise Ms B approach and all. Now Mr A has a good heart towards Ms B. ( I know that because I am the one writing). The thing is Mr A is also other pressure to perform and all the LM performances under Mr A makes up Mr A's performance. Mr A is trying to proof he is good for the job.

It now looks like Mr A is ungrateful and wicked. Finally Ms B has spent over 7yrs on her current grade and badly needs a recommendation. The pendulum might not swing in her favour if she doesn't get it. Mr A has other LMs that have performed better and have stayed lesser years
than Ms B on their grade that also need recommendation. Due to budget size and Covid Mr A cannot recommend more than 1 person.

Mr A wants to be a good man....Ms B might be axed if she doesn't move on her grade.

How will you handle this?
Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by ATTAHDYE(m): 10:35am On Jan 28
Ms B should have been promoted when Mr A was making the numbers since you said supervisor's performance is tied to her subordinates.

That aside, Mr. A is in what we call a prisoner's delima, if he fires Ms B, he will be seen as ungrateful. If he promotes another performing LM ahead of Ms B, he will still be seen as ungrateful and wicked.

Options open to him include:

1. If it is within his power, he can talk to management to move Ms B to another department so that she is no longer his problem, then he can run his unit as he wants.

2. Use years experience as justification to promote Ms B and hope that she doesn't come for him afterwards.

3. Or just nicely get ride of her.

I will recommend option 1.

6 Likes

Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by SSpeter(m): 10:43am On Jan 28
ATTAHDYE:
Ms B should have been promoted when Mr A was making the numbers since you said supervisor's performance is tied to her subordinates.

That aside, Mr. A is in what we call a prisoner's delima, if he fires Ms B, he will be seen as ungrateful. If he promotes another performing LM ahead of Ms B, he will still be seen as ungrateful and wicked.

Options open to him include:

1. If it is within his power, he can talk to management to move Ms B to another department so that she is no longer his problem, then he can run his unit as he wants.

2. Use years experience as justification to promote Ms B and hope that she doesn't come for him afterwards.

3. Or just nicely get ride of her.

I will recommend option 1.
fantastic! I like your analysis. Ms B was not promoted because she has 4 SO under her and Mr A was the performer under her unit the other three were only giving her average performances. On the average she was getting 2.5 /4 then. Moving her to other department depends if she has the required skill. Also, she is a middle management staff, that grade is quite heavy the department that will absorb her must have doubled their bottom line the previous year to create enough budget to accommodate her
Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by bluskyee: 11:07am On Jan 28
SSpeter:
This is a real life situation but I will make it as fictional as possible. I might also make it a bit difficult to comprehend because....I choose to.

Mr A was a sales officer quite good and all. So he was recommended for promotion and he got it. Ideally he was supposed to spend 9months on his new grade to be appraised again (mid term appraisal) and another 9months for recommendation. Fortunately, he performed above expectations in the mid term (in fact he had a perfect score) and that qualified him for another promotion and he got it.

Previously his line manager was 2grades above him. His line manager has spent 6years on her current grade without promotion. Mr A's rapid promotion now brought him to the present grade of his line manager.

Line managers >>>>RHs >>>>>CH...in that order. The RH position is not a grade but an office, unlike the LM position that is a grade and an office. (you must be a line manager by grade to be nominated for RH position). Recall, Mr A is not a line manager by office but he and his line manager are at par grade wise.

Also note that Mr A was getting those recommendations because his LM (let's say Ms B) was recommending him based on his performances. Now it is not unusual for you to perform outstandingly and not get promoted. Appraisals are based on attitude, aptitude and performance (Attitude cannot be quantified and to an extent subjective).

Before the lockdown, the regional head vanished (take it like that) and Mr A was appointed RH. Ms B will now report to Mr A. Ms B groomed Mr A and A was under her tutelage for a longtime. Ms B is still a line manager and has other reports like the initial Mr A under her. Sadly they are not performing hence Ms B is not performing cos individual performances makes up Ms B's performance.

Mr A has other LM reporting to him and he has issued Ms B several queries due to PF. During virtual strategy sessions Mr A will criticise Ms B approach and all. Now Mr A has a good heart towards Ms B. ( I know that because I am the one writing). The thing is Mr A is also other pressure to perform and all the LM performances under Mr A makes up Mr A's performance. Mr A is trying to proof he is good for the job.

It now looks like Mr A is ungrateful and wicked. Finally Ms B has spent over 7yrs on her current grade and badly needs a recommendation. The pendulum might not swing in her favour if she doesn't get it. Mr A has other LMs that have performed better and have stayed lesser years
than Ms B on their grade that also need recommendation. Due to budget size and Covid Mr A cannot recommend more than 1 person.

Mr A wants to be a good man....Ms B might be axed if she doesn't move on her grade.

How will you handle this?

This is a tough situation. I will call for a meeting can let the other LM know that Ms B ought to be promoted becos log length of stay. I will use any means legal to ensure that she gets it. Give good appraisal in attitude and aptitude.

2 Likes

Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by Hideki(m): 11:56am On Jan 28
SSpeter:
This is a real life situation but I will make it as fictional as possible. I might also make it a bit difficult to comprehend because....I choose to.

Mr A was a sales officer quite good and all. So he was recommended for promotion and he got it. Ideally he was supposed to spend 9months on his new grade to be appraised again (mid term appraisal) and another 9months for recommendation. Fortunately, he performed above expectations in the mid term (in fact he had a perfect score) and that qualified him for another promotion and he got it.

Previously his line manager was 2grades above him. His line manager has spent 6years on her current grade without promotion. Mr A's rapid promotion now brought him to the present grade of his line manager.

Line managers >>>>RHs >>>>>CH...in that order. The RH position is not a grade but an office, unlike the LM position that is a grade and an office. (you must be a line manager by grade to be nominated for RH position). Recall, Mr A is not a line manager by office but he and his line manager are at par grade wise.

Also note that Mr A was getting those recommendations because his LM (let's say Ms B) was recommending him based on his performances. Now it is not unusual for you to perform outstandingly and not get promoted. Appraisals are based on attitude, aptitude and performance (Attitude cannot be quantified and to an extent subjective).

Before the lockdown, the regional head vanished (take it like that) and Mr A was appointed RH. Ms B will now report to Mr A. Ms B groomed Mr A and A was under her tutelage for a longtime. Ms B is still a line manager and has other reports like the initial Mr A under her. Sadly they are not performing hence Ms B is not performing cos individual performances makes up Ms B's performance.

Mr A has other LM reporting to him and he has issued Ms B several queries due to PF. During virtual strategy sessions Mr A will criticise Ms B approach and all. Now Mr A has a good heart towards Ms B. ( I know that because I am the one writing). The thing is Mr A is also other pressure to perform and all the LM performances under Mr A makes up Mr A's performance. Mr A is trying to proof he is good for the job.

It now looks like Mr A is ungrateful and wicked. Finally Ms B has spent over 7yrs on her current grade and badly needs a recommendation. The pendulum might not swing in her favour if she doesn't get it. Mr A has other LMs that have performed better and have stayed lesser years
than Ms B on their grade that also need recommendation. Due to budget size and Covid Mr A cannot recommend more than 1 person.

Mr A wants to be a good man....Ms B might be axed if she doesn't move on her grade.

How will you handle this?

complex situation, sentiment aside he should do the needful. Let the highest performer get it. That was how he got it

1 Like

Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by Nobody: 12:39pm On Jan 28
SSpeter:
This is a real life situation but I will make it as fictional as possible. I might also make it a bit difficult to comprehend because....I choose to.

Mr A was a sales officer quite good and all. So he was recommended for promotion and he got it. Ideally he was supposed to spend 9months on his new grade to be appraised again (mid term appraisal) and another 9months for recommendation. Fortunately, he performed above expectations in the mid term (in fact he had a perfect score) and that qualified him for another promotion and he got it.

Previously his line manager was 2grades above him. His line manager has spent 6years on her current grade without promotion. Mr A's rapid promotion now brought him to the present grade of his line manager.

Line managers >>>>RHs >>>>>CH...in that order. The RH position is not a grade but an office, unlike the LM position that is a grade and an office. (you must be a line manager by grade to be nominated for RH position). Recall, Mr A is not a line manager by office but he and his line manager are at par grade wise.

Also note that Mr A was getting those recommendations because his LM (let's say Ms B) was recommending him based on his performances. Now it is not unusual for you to perform outstandingly and not get promoted. Appraisals are based on attitude, aptitude and performance (Attitude cannot be quantified and to an extent subjective).

Before the lockdown, the regional head vanished (take it like that) and Mr A was appointed RH. Ms B will now report to Mr A. Ms B groomed Mr A and A was under her tutelage for a longtime. Ms B is still a line manager and has other reports like the initial Mr A under her. Sadly they are not performing hence Ms B is not performing cos individual performances makes up Ms B's performance.

Mr A has other LM reporting to him and he has issued Ms B several queries due to PF. During virtual strategy sessions Mr A will criticise Ms B approach and all. Now Mr A has a good heart towards Ms B. ( I know that because I am the one writing). The thing is Mr A is also other pressure to perform and all the LM performances under Mr A makes up Mr A's performance. Mr A is trying to proof he is good for the job.

It now looks like Mr A is ungrateful and wicked. Finally Ms B has spent over 7yrs on her current grade and badly needs a recommendation. The pendulum might not swing in her favour if she doesn't get it. Mr A has other LMs that have performed better and have stayed lesser years
than Ms B on their grade that also need recommendation. Due to budget size and Covid Mr A cannot recommend more than 1 person.

Mr A wants to be a good man....Ms B might be axed if she doesn't move on her grade.

How will you handle this?


I'll present the problem to Ms B and recommend ways by which she might improve her subordinates' performance and therefore, her own as well; having worked in the same capacity earlier. I'll inform her where she stands in the rankings and what she must do to outperform the others. In other words, I'll mentor her as she mentored me, but that is the extent to which I'll help her. I'm certainly not going to recommend her for promotion over a more deserving LM if she doesn't merit it. Nothing kills company morale faster than nepotism.

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Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by SSpeter(m): 1:11pm On Jan 28
bluskyee:
This is a tough situation. I will call for a meeting can let the other LM know that Ms B ought to be promoted becos log length of stay. I will use any means legal to ensure that she gets it. Give good appraisal in attitude and aptitude.
The other LM may get aggrieved and lodge a grievance against MrA. Management will see Mr A as incompetent. Never try this in a large corporate environment. It may bacfire

1 Like

Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by SSpeter(m): 1:13pm On Jan 28
Hideki:
complex situation, sentiment aside he should do the needful. Let the highest performer get it. That was how he got it
We are first human, the person that have recommended you twice, you had a good performance yes but she could have denied you those recommendations. She could appraise you for lack of team work rather than laud your sterling individual performance.

1 Like

Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by SSpeter(m): 1:19pm On Jan 28
RisenPhoenix1:


I'll present the problem to Ms B and recommend ways by which she might improve her subordinates' performance and therefore, her own as well; having worked in the same capacity earlier. I'll inform her where she stands in the rankings and what she must do to outperform the others. In other words, I'll mentor her as she mentored me, but that is the extent to which I'll help her. I'm certainly not going to recommend her for promotion over a more deserving LM if she doesn't merit it. Nothing kills company morale faster than nepotism.
Mentoring is good but no one will tell you how to take risk and close deals. No one can give you a clean deal because there is always a default risk embedded in every deal. Finally you need to search for your own client and stick your head. Mrs B knows all these you can't start mentoring someone that has spent over a decade mentoring other people. Macroeconomic activities are shrinking. Mr A took several big risks that paid off....some were just dumb luck
Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by Nobody: 1:33pm On Jan 28
SSpeter:
Mentoring is good but no one will tell you how to take risk and close deals. No one can give you a clean deal because there is always a default risk embedded in every deal. Finally you need to search for your own client and stick your head. Mrs B knows all these you can't start mentoring someone that has spent over a decade mentoring other people. Macroeconomic activities are shrinking. Mr A took several big risks that paid off....some were just dumb luck

Clearly, her old style techniques are no longer working, so he can teach her his more successful methods; eg how to assess bigger risks and when to take them. There is no law that says a mentee cannot become the mentor to his former mentor. The point remains that he was highly successful in a field that she needs her subordinates to be successful in now, so he can show her how to mentor them towards that objective.

If macro economic activities are the sole cause of her underperformance, then it will affect the other LMs as well; unless the company's performance tests are unfair.

This final point should be inviolate. All promotions and recommendations should be on merit, not out of a sense of gratitude or nepotism.

2 Likes

Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by SSpeter(m): 1:42pm On Jan 28
RisenPhoenix1:


Clearly, her old style techniques are no longer working, so he can teach her his more successful methods; eg how to assess bigger risks and when to take them. There is no law that says a mentee cannot become the mentor to his former mentor. The point remains that he was highly successful in a field that she needs her subordinates to be successful in now, so he can show her how to mentor them towards that objective.

If macro economic activities are the sole cause of her underperformance, then it will affect the other LMs as well; unless the company's performance tests are unfair.

This final point should be inviolate. All promotions and recommendations should be on merit, not out of a sense of gratitude or nepotism.
Good points! I believe Mr A has had strategy sessions with all the LMs. During these sessions there would be knowledge sharing and brainstorming.
Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by Nobody: 1:45pm On Jan 28
SSpeter:
Good points! I believe Mr A has had strategy sessions with all the LMs. During these sessions there would be knowledge sharing and brainstorming.

Sure, that too. But in the case of Ms B, I believe that giving her a little extra advice to help boost her performance for old times' sake will not be out of place. It is good to return favours, but only as long as one doesn't break the rules to do so.

1 Like

Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by SSpeter(m): 1:54pm On Jan 28
RisenPhoenix1:


Sure, that too. But in the case of Ms B, I believe that giving her a little extra advice to help boost her performance for old times' sake will not be out of place. It is good to return favours, but only as long as one doesn't break the rules to do so.
Let me let you in on something...there was this guy that was newly employed as an experienced hire, he was given a big grade because of his previous grade. He was placed on an initial 6months probation. If he meets his target he gets confirmed, if not he will be fired without notice. After the first 6months, he was performing below par. He was given a final six months to close all gaps. His colleagues tried, they gave him deals and all. Some even had to liquidate some portfolio and give it to the guy to build him....but he still did not cross at the end of the final six months. There is a limit to how much we can help
Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by Nobody: 1:59pm On Jan 28
SSpeter:
Let me let you in on something...there was this guy that was newly employed as an experienced hire, he was given a big grade because of his previous grade. He was placed on an initial 6months probation. If he meets his target he gets confirmed, if not he will be fired without notice. After the first 6months, he was performing below par. He was given a final six months to close all gaps. His colleagues tried, they gave him deals and all. Some even had to liquidate some portfolio and give it to the guy to build him....but he still did not cross at the end of the final six months. There is a limit to how much we can help

In Nigeria, we believe that such 'philanthropy' is right. It is not. Assuming he did get confirmed, would they keep bolstering him up all his life at their expense? It doesn't make sense. Extreme generosity can be as destructive as extreme selfishness.

2 Likes

Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by SSpeter(m): 2:02pm On Jan 28
RisenPhoenix1:


In Nigeria, we believe that such 'philanthropy' is right. It is not. Assuming he did get confirmed, would they keep bolstering him up all his life at their expense? It doesn't make sense. Extreme generosity can be as destructive as extreme selfishness.
Good! Mr A might have done all that's needed to be done.
Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by LeoThaGreat(m): 3:45pm On Jan 28
.
.
Ms. B needs to recommend the sack of her sales officers as their underperformance is stalling her growth.
As Mr. A, the above is what I will advise her to pursue as she's meant to have advanced in rank

1 Like

Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by SSpeter(m): 4:55pm On Jan 28
LeoThaGreat:
.
.
Ms. B needs to recommend the sack of her sales officers as their underperformance is stalling her growth.
As Mr. A, the above is what I will advise her to pursue as she's meant to have advanced in rank
Great idea, also note that sales officers below 70% YoY on their score card are usually rotated across regions after an end of year appraisal . Therefore she might have worked with an entire new team
Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by ultramayor: 8:35pm On Jan 28
Oboy! Still dey scratch my head now, I go let you know if I don reason am angry
Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by LeoThaGreat(m): 9:20pm On Jan 28
SSpeter:
Great idea, also note that sales officers below 70% YoY on their score card are usually rotated across regions after an end of year appraisal . Therefore she might have worked with an entire new team
If i were Mr. A, I will tell her blame her stagnation on low performing sales officers after she's gone through their score cards, then select those who she will recommend their sack. However, I will let her know that this is me repaying her back, from that moment onwards, i won't save her anymore.
Finito.
Life is about scratch my back, then I scratch yours. She's done Mr. A a big favour, now is his turn to pay his debt (with wisdom & strategy)
Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by SSpeter(m): 9:54pm On Jan 28
ultramayor:
Oboy! Still dey scratch my head now, I go let you know if I don reason am angry
lol
Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by SSpeter(m): 9:58pm On Jan 28
LeoThaGreat:

If i were Mr. A, I will tell her blame her stagnation on low performing sales officers after she's gone through their score cards, then select those who she will recommend their sack. However, I will let her know that this is me repaying her back, from that moment onwards, i won't save her anymore.
Finito.
Life is about scratch my back, then I scratch yours. She's done Mr. A a big favour, now is his turn to pay his debt (with wisdom & strategy)
Good points bro, you see Ms cannot recommend for an SO to be fired. Management makes that decision. Also, SO's don't cost much compared to other higher grades. Hence an SO needs to work hard to get fired.
Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by tobechi74: 1:57am On Jan 29
ATTAHDYE:
Ms B should have been promoted when Mr A was making the numbers since you said supervisor's performance is tied to her subordinates.

That aside, Mr. A is in what we call a prisoner's delima, if he fires Ms B, he will be seen as ungrateful. If he promotes another performing LM ahead of Ms B, he will still be seen as ungrateful and wicked.

Options open to him include:

1. If it is within his power, he can talk to management to move Ms B to another department so that she is no longer his problem, then he can run his unit as he wants.

2. Use years experience as justification to promote Ms B and hope that she doesn't come for him afterwards.

3. Or just nicely get ride of her.

I will recommend option 1.

Peters rule states that employee continue to ride until he reaches a stage of incompetence . The skill needed for performing in a lower job may differ from that needed to perform in the higher job. E.g a competent teacher promoted to a vice principal does very well, then promoted to a principal. As a teacher and vice principal, he related well with student and parent needs. As a principal,vhe is tasked to improve revenue and take decision that favor the owner. He performed badly and becomes unsuitable for more promotion.

Mrs B may have reached her incompetent zone. She may be effective and patient in training new employee ( human driven) but terrible in getting more sales, giving presentation, attending meetings etc.

Your job is to examine her closely and know the job that fit her. You then post her to that job department and promote her e g human resources manager.

You don't throw away loyal good staff like that

1 Like

Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by Coldplay007(f): 5:45am On Jan 29
Obviously, you are Mr A. I dont envy you, this is a tough decision you have to make..

I need to know 1 thing, is there any repercussions for Mr A if he recommends MsB for the position and she performs woefully once she gets there...

If not, recommend Ms B.. She needs a lift in her current state.
If there will be repercussions, think about it and follow your heart..
Re: How will you handle it? Will you let your boss get fired? by femi4: 5:59am On Jan 29
Change the damn rule. Mr A & Ms B promotion must be independent

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