Ben Bruce, you are also part of the canal whose only mandate is to ensure that no day ever passes without inflicting pains and discomfort on average Nigerians.

We don't even expect any good thing from you. But I know you all shall also taste the most bitter pills of horror, pains and agony. The law of Karma shall find fulfilment in your lives and affairs.

Rugaria:
It's a cultural thing. When a prehistoric culture that has an imperial mindset invades a given society, hyjacks power and starts dominating the political culture of any given country for an upward of 6 decades, the tendency to entrench poverty and utilize squalid existence as tools for subjugation and total economic and political control increases.. When you are made poor, you have been made powerless..

So, if you were running a business, you would support price controls on your business...to the bit that you were running at a loss, and then you would support government paying you a subsidy that does not cover the loss..?

That means you love socialism. IT also means you were among the people protesting GEJ's removal of subsides in 2012, and raisng prices from N65 to N140 in the process, forcing GEJ to return prices to N97 and then N87 and wasting over N3 trillion on subsides by 2015?

Caliphate or no, you cannot run a sucessful business with price controls. Venezuela is in the mess it is because they subsidised their fuel industry to destruction, plus they also subsidised everyhting else...

Godarz:


Actually it is in our best interest.

NNPC spent 4 trillion in 5 years subsidizing fuel. 4 trillion.

Money that could have been used for other thigs like refinereis....its refinereis.

Also, there are 20 licencess for private refienreis who have not started work because they don't like government price controls at all...it means they would end up refining fuel at a loss.

Look, if we want more refineries, it would be better for government to remove fuel subsidy completely and let marketers control the price. Sure we would pay over N300 for fuel...but all the smuggling, and corruption will stop.

It is always necessary for every government to balance welfare of the people vs economic gains on a scale. After all government is about the people.

ambu2:
Hello Ben Bruce, this is remining you that the huge allowances you earned as senator and diverted constituency projects funds also suffered the masses. Just a reminder.

and you have proof of diverted constituency projects funds - as you put it

Godarz:
The fun aspect of this thread is that Nigerians seem to think that a government should fix prices.

Infact, if Nigerians had their way, the government should fix prices for everything, food inclusinve.

For anyone reading this, this is the genesis of the problem.

Once, we had four refinereis by the mid 1980s. Then the governments of the day decided to 1) sell fuel from the refinereis, and not only fuel, other refined products at a cheap price, and 2. pay a subsidy to cover any losses.

As it turned out, rising costs of doing business meant that subsidies were not sustainable long term, but what governments have been doing is raise the price of fuel to a level where they would be able to keep paying some form of subsidy, while compensating marketers with cash in the form of a subsody, and not only marketers, but depot owners and so on ....so that they did not raise prices in the process


(As an example...GEJ's 87 per liter price. Initially when he took over it was N65, but by 2012, the cost of production plus import was N99. GEJ tried to end subsidy by rasing prices to N140 per liter...meaning government would no longer have to pay a subsidy. Labour union protests forced him to cut it to N97...meaning subsidy went down from N34 per liter to N2 PER liter

By 2015 when Bubu took power, fuel was costing N132 to import , while prices of fuel was N87..meaning a subsidy of N45 WAS IN PLACE..up from N2 IN 2012, Bubu raised price to N145, meaning it now cost NOTHING TO subsidse fuel, until the cost of importing fuel rose above N145, necessitaitng price increases to N162

Also in 2017, Buhari forced NNPC to subsidise fuel from its own account. in addition to making them the sole importer, so that he could look good politically...He also paid odff soutstanding subsidy claims from marketers from 2013-date in 2018)

As a result, the whole petroleum industry has been losing money...which is why we don't have functioning refineries since the 1990's when NNPC stopped doing TAM.

And the current arrangement where NNPC is importing and subsidizing fuel at its expense is not working...plus the equalisaiton fund payments for making sure fuel prices stay the same unifromly is not working again too

So either prices go up, or government wastes trillions more subsidizing fuel so that BMB and co can be happy, while we go into more debt.


Low fuel prices means more debt. Allowing marketers to control the price means low prices by way of comeptition, and increased production and more jobs. Is our APC government ready tot ake the decision they should have taken in 2015...? and that PDP wanted to take in 2012, if not for our lust for cheap fuel?

Nice analysis but we both know that the only way to stop subsidy is to have functional refineries.
As long as Nigeria keeps importing fuel then we will keep having incidents like this.

molotough:

100 % CORRECT.

You summarize what I've been stressing out to the fools on this forum. They just can't get it, the caliphate system who has been in charge have utilized governmental apparatus among many other anti-masses policies to strangulate the economic abilities of the native indeginious people will surreptitiously actualizing the interest of the emirate who have always been in charge since the dubious flag independence.

Very frustrating to say the obvious and be called names..
Majority of Nigerians have not been able to decipher this. They keep expecting people in government who are working day and night to contain them, to be agents of modernisation, .. it won't happen! Nigeria is not moving in circles because the resources to move it forward are not there, the country is perpetually in a quagmire because those controlling the levers of power for a long time are agents of a retrogressive culture who are comfortable with cave existence. They see modernisation and greater civilisation as threats.. Poverty and ignorance are their weapons of choice.. . You try to point this out in places like here, folks will immediately label you a tribalist. Yet, it's the fact. The truth..

Okoroawusa:

Nice analysis but we both know that the only way to stop subsidy is to have functional refineries.
As long as Nigeria keeps importing fuel then we will keep having incidents like this.

And the only way to have functional refienreis is to allow the refiners of fuel, and the people transporting it and selling it to do so at a price that they set so that they can make enough profits to make the whole sector work.

That's why government should have hands off setting fuel prices since 2006...not this uncertainty and price setting that APC is doing and ruining the economy in the process.

Another PROTEST on the way

iwaeda:


https://dailypost.ng/2021/03/12/fuel-price-nigerian-system-believes-in-suffering-the-masses-ben-bruce/?



https://mobile.twitter.com/benmurraybruce/status/1370277177510486017

What is Ben Bruce's solution?? That a relatively poor country like Nigeria with horrendous education, health and infrastructure statistics and a booming population continue to subsidize petrol for the upper middle class and their petrol guzzling SUV's??

AlphaLover:


Are u a graduate?

Are you crazy in the head?

festacman:


It is always necessary for every government to balance welfare of the people vs economic gains on a scale. After all government is about the people.

And the problem with subsidizing fuel is that in order to keep prices low, we have spent a lot of our revenue and gotten into debt which rebounds on the same masses.

Subsidizing fuel has also meant not enough cash to keep refineries running, plus who wants to come and invest in refineries in a country where you are not sure of making a profit because government subsidizes fuel?..meaning prices are too low to make a profit at the end.

Nigeria also does not have a high enough tax to gdp ratio to run a welfare state.(Canada subsides fuel, and they also have a high tax to gdp ratio of 33% compared to our 6.1%..and even then fuel costs N400 per liter in Canada...). Instead we rely on oil income which isn't enough for all of us even on a good price of $130 per barrel.

Off his mic.

When he was in office, what did he do?

He was just making stupid common sense without any impact.

Awon omo ale

From 87naira per litter

Godarz:


And the problem with subsidizing fuel is that in order to keep prices low, we have spent a lot of our revenue and gotten into debt which rebounds on the same masses.

Subsidizing fuel has also meant not enough cash to keep refineries running, plus who wants to come and invest in refineries in a country where you are not sure of making a profit because government subsidizes fuel?..meaning prices are too low to make a profit at the end.

Nigeria also does not have a high enough tax to gdp ratio to run a welfare state.(Canada subsides fuel, and they also have a high tax to gdp ratio of 33% compared to our 6.1%..and even then fuel costs N400 per liter in Canada...). Instead we rely on oil income which isn't enough for all of us even on a good price of $130 per barrel.

Good economic analysis you have there. However, at the moment, the masses are at the tipping point and any careless action could lead to massive protests or even uprising. Recall that it was increase in price of bread that herald the Arab spring protests.

The least qualification to be a president should be a Bachelor's degree.

For the governor's could be Secondary school.

If Buhari had good education, things wouldn't have turned this bad.

Education is the key

Imagine a primary school certificate holder leading a country of over 200million people.

Disaster!!!

WILLuKPquiet:
The least qualification to be a president should be a Bachelor's degree.

For the governor's could be Secondary school.

If Buhari had good education, things wouldn't have turned this bad.

Education is the key

Imagine a primary school certificate holder leading a country of over 200million people.

Disaster!!!

WTF!
It's not about education bro, it's about knowing what's right. Progressiveness has nothing to so with Bsc or PhD. or having Masters. Check out the Fulani man called Lamido Sanusi Lamido who in his youthful age was the one who led the hordes of jihadist to storm and broke the prison Gideon Akaluka was held and had him beheaded before having his zealots liking the decapitated head on a pike, he is a university graduate at then yet charged with jihadist tendency, empowered with islamism and driven with fulani supremacy to dominate others as reflected in all his policy and management when in charge of CBN. Is Mutalab not educated ? When are you ignoramus going to wake up?

Rugaria:

Very frustrating to say the obvious and be called names..
Majority of Nigerians have not been able to decipher this. They keep expecting people in government who are working day and night to contain them, to be agents of modernisation, .. it won't happen! Nigeria is not moving in circles because the resources to move it forward are not there, the country is perpetually in a quagmire because those controlling the levers of power for a long time are agents of a retrogressive culture who are comfortable with cave existence. They see modernisation and greater civilisation as threats.. Poverty and ignorance are their weapons of choice.. . You try to point this out in places like here, folks will immediately label you a tribalist. Yet, it's the fact. The truth..

Email shdwmncr@gmail.com let's relate.

It is time to do the needful in this country and those causing problems and sufferings to the masses.

Next level indeed

Where are all those shameless protesters during GEJ's administration when we need them now.

Bunch of shameless hypocrites - I spit on you all with disgust.

festacman:


Good economic analysis you have there. However, at the moment, the masses are at the tipping point and any careless action could lead to massive protests or even uprising. Recall that it was increase in price of bread that herald the Arab spring protests.

Well, if the masses could see how fuel subsidy has meant drainage of the economy and our reserves, they should not complain.

(After all, I used to support fuel subsides, till GEJ's attempt to remove it in 2011 led me to read to understand why this man was doing something wild like this. Once I read and understood, I aprpeciated what he was doing...and no, I was not his supporter , or a PDP or APC supporter for that matter either)

And Niger is poorer than we are, yet fuel costs N350 there . And they have crude oil there naturally...yet because they are poor they cannot waste money subsidsing it. So there is enough profot for them to keep their refienry running, and to as a result make them an exporter.

If we want more refinereis, we have to make it so that anyone refining and selling fuel makes a profit....which is why subsidy has to go. Keeping on spending on subsidy is tantamount to more debt and more poverty...and job growth stifled.

Godarz:


And the problem with subsidizing fuel is that in order to keep prices low, we have spent a lot of our revenue and gotten into debt which rebounds on the same masses.

Subsidizing fuel has also meant not enough cash to keep refineries running, plus who wants to come and invest in refineries in a country where you are not sure of making a profit because government subsidizes fuel?..meaning prices are too low to make a profit at the end.

Nigeria also does not have a high enough tax to gdp ratio to run a welfare state.(Canada subsides fuel, and they also have a high tax to gdp ratio of 33% compared to our 6.1%..and even then fuel costs N400 per liter in Canada...). Instead we rely on oil income which isn't enough for all of us even on a good price of $130 per barrel.

Godarz, I must commend you for continuing to educate the people on why we need to swallow this bitter pill. As they say the best time would have been 20years ago, but the next best time is now. Imagine what Nigeria has lost since when Obasanjo privatized refineries in early 2007, only for YarAdua to reverse it. Or think how much progress Nigeria would have made if we had never been in this subsidy rubbish from the 80's.

Most Nigerians are not thinking straight because of their pockets - and I get it!! But as an accountant and economist, I can rationalize that the long term costs (direct and indirect) of maintaining this subsidy are far greater than keeping it. It is a bitter pill we must swallow! We must understand the Nigerian situation and fashion out what works for us. What other countries can do, Nigeria may not be able to afford.

What gives me hope though is that if we have committed, intellectual leaders, Nigeria can be made to work reasonably well in say 20years. Countries like Vietnam, Malaysia, Brazil etc have done it.

Rather than continue to fight for cheap petrol, isn't it better to fight for an extra N10k per month for all workers salaries below N50k per month, N5 for workers between N50k per month and N100k and nothing for N100k and above, to cushion the effects and let the private sector led, market driven price mechanism take over, similar to Diesel?

Alternatively, PAYE taxes can be reduced to release more money to workers.

Anything is a better solution compared to keeping the subsidy.

He is an idiot, under Badluck Jonathan they looted the country under the pretence that they were paying subsidy and yet Nigerians slept at petrol stations for days only to buy 4 litres for 2500 that is 600 per litre. And they will go behind to share trillions in the name subsidy.

Was it not under PDP regime that they shut down refineries?

Before he open that smelly mouth to talk rubbish he should tell Nigerians how much fuel sells in USA?
One thing Nigerians need to understand is that the higher the oil � price the higher the price of its products such as petrol ⛽

Okonjo Iweala has started advising our FG. That's what she did during Obasanjo regime.


White slave.

Godarz:


Well, if the masses could see how fuel subsidy has meant drainage of the economy and our reserves, they should not complain.

(After all, I used to support fuel subsides, till GEJ's attempt to remove it in 2011 led me to read to understand why this man was doing something wild like this. Once I read and understood, I aprpeciated what he was doing...and no, I was not his supporter , or a PDP or APC supporter for that matter either)

And Niger is poorer than we are, yet fuel costs N350 there . And they have crude oil there naturally...yet because they are poor they cannot waste money subsidsing it. So there is enough profot for them to keep their refienry running, and to as a result make them an exporter.

If we want more refinereis, we have to make it so that anyone refining and selling fuel makes a profit....which is why subsidy has to go. Keeping on spending on subsidy is tantamount to more debt and more poverty...and job growth stifled.

The reality is that, currently, petrol pricing has been deregulated in Nigeria. However, the prevailing social pulse is dictating that a certain short-term social investment decision be made for the general good and long-term stability of the country.

you like to born pretime ?

iwaeda:


Are you God? What of pretime?

COMPAQ:


Godarz, I must commend you for continuing to educate the people on why we need to swallow this bitter pill. As they say the best time would have been 20years ago, but the next best time is now. Imagine what Nigeria has lost since when Obasanjo privatized refineries in early 2007, only for YarAdua to reverse it. Or think how much progress Nigeria would have made if we had never been in this subsidy rubbish from the 80's.

Most Nigerians are not thinking straight because of their pockets - and I get it!! But as an accountant and economist, I can rationalize that the long term costs (direct and indirect) of maintaining this subsidy are far greater than keeping it. It is a bitter pill we must swallow! We must understand the Nigerian situation and fashion out what works for us. What other countries can do, Nigeria may not be able to afford.

What gives me hope though is that if we have committed, intellectual leaders, Nigeria can be made to work reasonably well in say 20years. Countries like Vietnam, Malaysia, Brazil etc have done it.

Rather than continue to fight for cheap petrol, isn't it better to fight for an extra N10k per month for all workers salaries below N50k per month, N5 for workers between N50k per month and N100k and nothing for N100k and above, to cushion the effects and let the private sector led, market driven price mechanism take over, similar to Diesel?

Alternatively, PAYE taxes can be reduced to release more money to workers.

Anything is a better solution compared to keeping the subsidy.

Thanks

deep down you will think you have made sense ? How will u compare fuel price in USA with Nigeria.. Wo!!

budusky05:
He is an idiot, under Badluck Jonathan they looted the country under the pretence that they were paying subsidy and yet Nigerians slept at petrol stations for days only to buy 4 litres for 2500 that is 600 per litre. And they will go behind to share trillions in the name subsidy.

Was it not under PDP regime that they shut down refineries?

Before he open that smelly mouth to talk rubbish he should tell Nigerians how much fuel sells in USA?
One thing Nigerians need to understand is that the higher the oil � price the higher the price of its products such as petrol ⛽

]

festacman:


The reality is that, currently, petrol pricing has been deregulated in Nigeria.

I wish it was true, then for once I could praise the APC government. But with price controls, equalization funds and so on still in place, it really hasn't been deregulated..

However, the prevailing social pulse is dictating that a certain short-term social investment decision be made for the general good and long-term stability of the country.

Removing fuel subsidy completely means short term hardship...but long term benefits.

we need alternative to fuel fast fast.

Shameless country with no working refinery

Godarz:
The fun aspect of this thread is that Nigerians seem to think that a government should fix prices.

Infact, if Nigerians had their way, the government should fix prices for everything, food inclusinve.

For anyone reading this, this is the genesis of the problem.

Once, we had four refinereis by the mid 1980s. Then the governments of the day decided to 1) sell fuel from the refinereis, and not only fuel, other refined products at a cheap price, and 2. pay a subsidy to cover any losses.

As it turned out, rising costs of doing business meant that subsidies were not sustainable long term, but what governments have been doing is raise the price of fuel to a level where they would be able to keep paying some form of subsidy, while compensating marketers with cash in the form of a subsody, and not only marketers, but depot owners and so on ....so that they did not raise prices in the process


(As an example...GEJ's 87 per liter price. Initially when he took over it was N65, but by 2012, the cost of production plus import was N99. GEJ tried to end subsidy by rasing prices to N140 per liter...meaning government would no longer have to pay a subsidy. Labour union protests forced him to cut it to N97...meaning subsidy went down from N34 per liter to N2 PER liter

By 2015 when Bubu took power, fuel was costing N132 to import , while prices of fuel was N87..meaning a subsidy of N45 WAS IN PLACE..up from N2 IN 2012, Bubu raised price to N145, meaning it now cost NOTHING TO subsidse fuel, until the cost of importing fuel rose above N145, necessitaitng price increases to N162

Also in 2017, Buhari forced NNPC to subsidise fuel from its own account. in addition to making them the sole importer, so that he could look good politically...He also paid odff soutstanding subsidy claims from marketers from 2013-date in 2018)

As a result, the whole petroleum industry has been losing money...which is why we don't have functioning refineries since the 1990's when NNPC stopped doing TAM.

And the current arrangement where NNPC is importing and subsidizing fuel at its expense is not working...plus the equalisaiton fund payments for making sure fuel prices stay the same unifromly is not working again too

So either prices go up, or government wastes trillions more subsidizing fuel so that BMB and co can be happy, while we go into more debt.


Low fuel prices means more debt. Allowing marketers to control the price means low prices by way of comeptition, and increased production and more jobs. Is our APC government ready tot ake the decision they should have taken in 2015...? and that PDP wanted to take in 2012, if not for our lust for cheap fuel?

like i said to my former superior in 2015 when we hit 145/litre, it was always very easy to talk all this talk cos the company was fueling his car, and i told him that respectfully, cos i had moved anyway. I'll tell you what else i told him. I hoped no one will fuel his car for him at his next job and to PLS make it a duty to always pay 500 naira per litre whenever he needed to buy fuel as evidence that he believed his own theories. He/you shouldnt bother if the impact is small, all that matters is to be the first to practice what he/you preach. I know pple who consistently dont collect change wen they buy anything from petty traders cos they believe that in that little way they are constantly doing some form of charity. Pls from your pocket stop buying cheap fuel, pay 500 per litre as your own little contribution to the revamp of the Nigerian oil sector. The gas station will thank you on behalf of the Nigerian giv..I dare you!!! Lol