mhmsadyq:


It could also be "attack is the best form of defence".

shadeyinka:

If language do change it simply means that if such a language is not revised, the current speakers of such language may not even understand it. A good example is English language 600years ago is different from English language 200yeara ago and is still different from the contemporary English spoken today.

Thus, the Quran even though is written in Arabic is the flavor spoken 1400 years ago. Without expert tutoring, even the Arabs cannot comprehend many things in it.

In other words, the correct rendering of a language into that which is COMPREHENSIBLE by the readers is more important than dogmatically insisting that everyone must master the ancient language. The rendition could be into the contemporary Arabic conveying the same meaning OR into another language still conveying the same meaning

Such rendation is expected from experts who have mastered both the history, theology, language and context of the original language. Several kinds of rules may be followed in doing this

shadeyinka:

Yes!
Since you have admitted that Aggression is the best form of defence, Muslims should hence stop lying that they only fight a war of defence but Aggression is their doctrine!

mhmsadyq:


Do you know what a brain is?

You one to ask questions.

Please, go get a brain, then come back and ask questions.

You should ask you church leader for help.

Sorry!

mhmsadyq:


I consider this a brainless question.

mhmsadyq:


Do you know what a brain is?

You one to ask questions.

Please, go get a brain, then come back and ask questions.

You should ask you church leader for help.

Sorry!

adm212144:
who is m o r o n .Go and ask your papa the question or even your mad leader for church .i will like to engage with more sensible students.if Islam to you is a cult let it be .we are getting good morals there not dining with devil and money mongers you called pastor and if you remove th J from jesus it remain ESU ,it means Devil so your religion is devilish in all ramifications.Dont doubt .im beginning to think I i hope you are not a pastor .i think I’m bring your prey back to life here on nairaland.i can see you are very pained .Pele Omo irakiran

yungmill:



See how easy it is to put yall in your places? Question after question and non of y'all can answer! Did allah not claim self sufficiency as an attribute rather than quality? Did he also not claim all merciful too? If its qualities he possess by virtue of being allah then there is no contradiction because they are qualities not attributes but when he says they are attributes it means without any of the 99 and counting he is not allah! they all are his essense dum dum, so if they all make him up my question is in line, even your imams have acknowledged that, dawah idiots on youtube have acknowledged it too as a valid question and i was glad to break their deen by asking valid questions they can't answer without making allah a fool so who are you?

Give us an example of allahs mercy that is not transactional then you prove he is all sufficient but if you can't you prove your allah a demon trying to be god!


Once again dont run, grow a pair and answer the question! Abdul will still run! Odensi!

yungmill:



Hahahaha! Can you see your life outside? So you can't defend allah who claims all these by his own word? Am happy you are seeing how stupid your allah is! None of you can even attempt to answer because you serve a low self esteem slowpoke!

mhmsadyq:


You still haven't gotten a brain.
I advice you seek help from your church leader.
Is it too difficult?

mhmsadyq:


i dey shake my head for your matter.

Is your family aware of your condition?

yungmill:

Is allah aware you are stupid? Answer the question!

mhmsadyq:


The para wey you dey para so ehn!

E bi like say jesus no resurrect reach your area today o.

Take heart!

yungmill:

Answer the question! No dey run!

mhmsadyq:


[51:49] Al-Dhāriyāt-الذَّارِيَات
"وَ مِنۡ کُلِّ شَیۡءٍ خَلَقۡنَا زَوۡجَیۡنِ لَعَلَّکُمۡ تَذَکَّرُوۡنَ ﴿۴۹﴾

And of everything We have created two pairs so that you may concentrate and understand.

I asked "who said Allah didn't create everything in pairs?".
I am also waiting for your reply.

You went and fish out Bdelloidea and hermaphrodite. May be you later realised hermaphrodite didn't fit in to your conjecture, you narrowed to Bdelloidea. Asking me, what is its pair? all in a bid to falsify Allah's words.
This is what you do on NL, fishing for errors in Allah's book and words. Allah can grant you as many errors as you desire, cos that is what you seek.

If Christianity is sufficient for you, hold on to it! Stop finding errors and faults in Islam, cos that cannot in anyways justify Christianity in the eyes of a "believer".

If Bdelloidea are all females and reproduce asexually, how does that invalidates the words of Allah in Q51:49?

Is the verse about reproduction or sex?

Do you have a contrary evidence that Bdelloidea were not "created" in two pairs?

Using your bible as a standard:

How did God created things?

Were you created the same way Adam was created?

How did God created the first Bdelloidea?

[2:26] Al-Baqarah-الْبَقَرَة
"اِنَّ اللّٰہَ لَا یَسۡتَحۡیٖۤ اَنۡ یَّضۡرِبَ مَثَلًا مَّا بَعُوۡضَۃً فَمَا فَوۡقَہَا ؕ فَاَمَّا الَّذِیۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا فَیَعۡلَمُوۡنَ اَنَّہُ الۡحَقُّ مِنۡ رَّبِّہِمۡ ۚ وَ اَمَّا الَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡا فَیَقُوۡلُوۡنَ مَا ذَاۤ اَرَادَ اللّٰہُ بِہٰذَا مَثَلًا ۘ یُضِلُّ بِہٖ کَثِیۡرًا ۙ وَّ یَہۡدِیۡ بِہٖ کَثِیۡرًا ؕ وَ مَا یُضِلُّ بِہٖۤ اِلَّا الۡفٰسِقِیۡنَ ﴿ۙ۲۶﴾

Indeed, Allah is not reluctant to narrate some example (for better comprehension), whether of a mosquito or something even more (disgusting) than that. The believers know well that this example is (a pointer to the truth) from their Lord. But those who have adopted disbelief ask (on hearing): ‘What could Allah mean by this example?’ (In this way) Allah holds many astray, and guides many aright with the same example. And by this He leaves in error only those who are (already) disobedient.

[2:29] Al-Baqarah-الْبَقَرَة
"ہُوَ الَّذِیۡ خَلَقَ لَکُمۡ مَّا فِی الۡاَرۡضِ جَمِیۡعًا ٭ ثُمَّ اسۡتَوٰۤی اِلَی السَّمَآءِ فَسَوّٰىہُنَّ سَبۡعَ سَمٰوٰتٍ ؕ وَ ہُوَ بِکُلِّ شَیۡءٍ عَلِیۡمٌ ﴿٪۲۹﴾

He is the One Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then He turned towards the higher regions (of the universe) and perfected them into seven heavenly firmaments. And He has full knowledge of everything.

mhmsadyq:

2. These are better translations of the verses:
[18:83] Al-Kahf-الْكَهْف
"وَ یَسۡـَٔلُوۡنَکَ عَنۡ ذِی الۡقَرۡنَیۡنِ ؕ قُلۡ سَاَتۡلُوۡا عَلَیۡکُمۡ مِّنۡہُ ذِکۡرًا ﴿ؕ۸۳﴾

And, (O Most Esteemed Beloved,) they ask you about Dhu al-Qarnayn. Say: ‘I recite to you an account of him now.’

[18:84] Al-Kahf-الْكَهْف
"اِنَّا مَکَّنَّا لَہٗ فِی الۡاَرۡضِ وَ اٰتَیۡنٰہُ مِنۡ کُلِّ شَیۡءٍ سَبَبًا ﴿ۙ۸۴﴾

(In ancient times) We did grant him power in the land and blessed (his rule) with all the means and resources.

[18:85] Al-Kahf-الْكَهْف
"فَاَتۡبَعَ سَبَبًا ﴿۸۵﴾

Then he took another way,

[18:86] Al-Kahf-الْكَهْف
"حَتّٰۤی اِذَا بَلَغَ مَغۡرِبَ الشَّمۡسِ وَجَدَہَا تَغۡرُبُ فِیۡ عَیۡنٍ حَمِئَۃٍ وَّ وَجَدَ عِنۡدَہَا قَوۡمًا ۬ؕ قُلۡنَا یٰذَا الۡقَرۡنَیۡنِ اِمَّاۤ اَنۡ تُعَذِّبَ وَ اِمَّاۤ اَنۡ تَتَّخِذَ فِیۡہِمۡ حُسۡنًا ﴿۸۶﴾

Until he reached the boundary of (a locality towards) the west where he perceived the setting of the sun as if going down into a spring of (muddy black) hot water, and he found a people (living) there. We said: ‘O Dhu al-Qarnayn, (it is up to you) whether you punish them or treat them nicely.’

[18:89] Al-Kahf-الْكَهْف
"ثُمَّ اَتۡبَعَ سَبَبًا ﴿۸۹﴾

Then (after consolidating his conquests in the west) he set forth on (another) course,

[18:90] Al-Kahf-الْكَهْف
"حَتّٰۤی اِذَا بَلَغَ مَطۡلِعَ الشَّمۡسِ وَجَدَہَا تَطۡلُعُ عَلٰی قَوۡمٍ لَّمۡ نَجۡعَلۡ لَّہُمۡ مِّنۡ دُوۡنِہَا سِتۡرًا ﴿ۙ۹۰﴾

Until he reached the boundary (of a locality in the direction) of the sunrise. There he perceived (the rising of) the sun (as if) it were rising on the people (living in that piece of land) for whom We had provided no cover (for protection) against the sun (i.e., they lived in the caves, without clothes and houses).

The sun rises in the East(due East 2 days) and set in the West(due West 2 days) according to Geography.

These verses are clear enough if your objective is knowledge.
These were Dhu al-Qarnayn's perceptions about the sunrise and sunset.

I understand You already have a preconceived objection to the verses, wanting an argument that you can direct to your conjectures. Continue...

Give your own meanings if you like, but you can't force it down my throat.

mhmsadyq:

mhmsadyq:

mhmsadyq:


[51:49] Al-Dhāriyāt-الذَّارِيَات
"وَ مِنۡ کُلِّ شَیۡءٍ خَلَقۡنَا زَوۡجَیۡنِ لَعَلَّکُمۡ تَذَکَّرُوۡنَ ﴿۴۹﴾

And of everything We have created two pairs so that you may concentrate and understand.

I asked "who said Allah didn't create everything in pairs?".
I am also waiting for your reply.

You went and fish out Bdelloidea and hermaphrodite. May be you later realised hermaphrodite didn't fit in to your conjecture, you narrowed to Bdelloidea. Asking me, what is its pair? all in a bid to falsify Allah's words.
This is what you do on NL, fishing for errors in Allah's book and words. Allah can grant you as many errors as you desire, cos that is what you seek.

If Christianity is sufficient for you, hold on to it! Stop finding errors and faults in Islam, cos that cannot in anyways justify Christianity in the eyes of a "believer".

If Bdelloidea are all females and reproduce asexually, how does that invalidates the words of Allah in Q51:49?

Is the verse about reproduction or sex?

Do you have a contrary evidence that Bdelloidea were not "created" in two pairs?

Using your bible as a standard:

How did God created things?

Were you created the same way Adam was created?

How did God created the first Bdelloidea?

[2:26] Al-Baqarah-الْبَقَرَة
"اِنَّ اللّٰہَ لَا یَسۡتَحۡیٖۤ اَنۡ یَّضۡرِبَ مَثَلًا مَّا بَعُوۡضَۃً فَمَا فَوۡقَہَا ؕ فَاَمَّا الَّذِیۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡا فَیَعۡلَمُوۡنَ اَنَّہُ الۡحَقُّ مِنۡ رَّبِّہِمۡ ۚ وَ اَمَّا الَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡا فَیَقُوۡلُوۡنَ مَا ذَاۤ اَرَادَ اللّٰہُ بِہٰذَا مَثَلًا ۘ یُضِلُّ بِہٖ کَثِیۡرًا ۙ وَّ یَہۡدِیۡ بِہٖ کَثِیۡرًا ؕ وَ مَا یُضِلُّ بِہٖۤ اِلَّا الۡفٰسِقِیۡنَ ﴿ۙ۲۶﴾

Indeed, Allah is not reluctant to narrate some example (for better comprehension), whether of a mosquito or something even more (disgusting) than that. The believers know well that this example is (a pointer to the truth) from their Lord. But those who have adopted disbelief ask (on hearing): ‘What could Allah mean by this example?’ (In this way) Allah holds many astray, and guides many aright with the same example. And by this He leaves in error only those who are (already) disobedient.

[2:29] Al-Baqarah-الْبَقَرَة
"ہُوَ الَّذِیۡ خَلَقَ لَکُمۡ مَّا فِی الۡاَرۡضِ جَمِیۡعًا ٭ ثُمَّ اسۡتَوٰۤی اِلَی السَّمَآءِ فَسَوّٰىہُنَّ سَبۡعَ سَمٰوٰتٍ ؕ وَ ہُوَ بِکُلِّ شَیۡءٍ عَلِیۡمٌ ﴿٪۲۹﴾

He is the One Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then He turned towards the higher regions (of the universe) and perfected them into seven heavenly firmaments. And He has full knowledge of everything.


2. These are better translations of the verses:
[18:83] Al-Kahf-الْكَهْف
"وَ یَسۡـَٔلُوۡنَکَ عَنۡ ذِی الۡقَرۡنَیۡنِ ؕ قُلۡ سَاَتۡلُوۡا عَلَیۡکُمۡ مِّنۡہُ ذِکۡرًا ﴿ؕ۸۳﴾

And, (O Most Esteemed Beloved,) they ask you about Dhu al-Qarnayn. Say: ‘I recite to you an account of him now.’

[18:84] Al-Kahf-الْكَهْف
"اِنَّا مَکَّنَّا لَہٗ فِی الۡاَرۡضِ وَ اٰتَیۡنٰہُ مِنۡ کُلِّ شَیۡءٍ سَبَبًا ﴿ۙ۸۴﴾

(In ancient times) We did grant him power in the land and blessed (his rule) with all the means and resources.

[18:85] Al-Kahf-الْكَهْف
"فَاَتۡبَعَ سَبَبًا ﴿۸۵﴾

Then he took another way,

[18:86] Al-Kahf-الْكَهْف
"حَتّٰۤی اِذَا بَلَغَ مَغۡرِبَ الشَّمۡسِ وَجَدَہَا تَغۡرُبُ فِیۡ عَیۡنٍ حَمِئَۃٍ وَّ وَجَدَ عِنۡدَہَا قَوۡمًا ۬ؕ قُلۡنَا یٰذَا الۡقَرۡنَیۡنِ اِمَّاۤ اَنۡ تُعَذِّبَ وَ اِمَّاۤ اَنۡ تَتَّخِذَ فِیۡہِمۡ حُسۡنًا ﴿۸۶﴾

Until he reached the boundary of (a locality towards) the west where he perceived the setting of the sun as if going down into a spring of (muddy black) hot water, and he found a people (living) there. We said: ‘O Dhu al-Qarnayn, (it is up to you) whether you punish them or treat them nicely.’

[18:89] Al-Kahf-الْكَهْف
"ثُمَّ اَتۡبَعَ سَبَبًا ﴿۸۹﴾

Then (after consolidating his conquests in the west) he set forth on (another) course,

[18:90] Al-Kahf-الْكَهْف
"حَتّٰۤی اِذَا بَلَغَ مَطۡلِعَ الشَّمۡسِ وَجَدَہَا تَطۡلُعُ عَلٰی قَوۡمٍ لَّمۡ نَجۡعَلۡ لَّہُمۡ مِّنۡ دُوۡنِہَا سِتۡرًا ﴿ۙ۹۰﴾

Until he reached the boundary (of a locality in the direction) of the sunrise. There he perceived (the rising of) the sun (as if) it were rising on the people (living in that piece of land) for whom We had provided no cover (for protection) against the sun (i.e., they lived in the caves, without clothes and houses).

The sun rises in the East(due East 2 days) and set in the West(due West 2 days) according to Geography.

These verses are clear enough if your objective is knowledge.
These were Dhu al-Qarnayn's perceptions about the sunrise and sunset.

I understand You already have a preconceived objection to the verses, wanting an argument that you can direct to your conjectures. Continue...

Give your own meanings if you like, but you can't force it down my throat.

mhmsadyq:


I didn't admit that. Stop the generalization.

I only want you to be objective by looking at the other side, rather than drawing conclusion from a convenient point.

mhmsadyq:


I say go get brain first, if you truly need answer.

No brain, No answer!

So shall it remain.

mhmsadyq:


Well, i largely agreed with your first and second submissions.

Why do you think Shakespeare's works are still in their original language hundreds of years after?
Considering their wide acceptance worldwide.

Your answer may help with your third submission.

The Qur'an had gone through you last suggestion in the past to arrived at what we have today.
Which is one of the criticisms of the present Qur'an with its diacritical marks. They posited that the Qur'an the Prophet read had no diacritical marks as contained today. But of course this was done by people who knew and for a beneficial course.

Mikecold:
Glory to God


Do you know me as an apologist?

shadeyinka:


Check the INTERLINEAR translation, the words PERCEIVED/ PERCEPTION is not there. It is an invention to correct the TRUTH!
These were the words of ALLAH!
You can correct me if you still think you can see it.

I love interlinear translations!

shadeyinka:
I am sure you know that the Christian Scripture is written in three original language from which all translations are made Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. The children of Israel had at different times in their history spoken these major languages in their day to day activities (depending on the nation that ruled over them). God had not insisted in using only Hebrew to speak to them but whichever language they are comfortable with. In the time of Jesus Aramaic was spoken in day to day activities, Hebrew was spoken in worship and Greek was more or less the language of business, education and writings.


Shakesperes works are still in circulation mainly because of its historical and cultural nature. It presents drama as it used to be during the classical times.

UNFORTUNATELY, as per understanding, it conveys very little value: because even in teaching shakesphere, the old english has to first be distilled into its modern equivalence before students or actors begin to memorise them.

I am happy you mentioned the Qur'an with its diacritical marks which was not present in the original compilation: Meaning that a language is dynamic AND COMPREHENSION has more values than a dogmatic repetition of the ancient language as it is.

I agree that it is good to understand the original language, but you and I know that it takes years of study and dedication to master just the language alone. God has chosen to speak to us in a language that is easy for us to COMPREHEND.

The key is that the Original Script be FREELY available for anyone or groups of experts who have studied enough to know that he has mastered the languages and the tools of translations to make the language that is UNDERSTANDABLE and a TRUE Reflection of the ORIGINAL Script by the readers.

To this end, is it advantageous to translate the Quran?

shadeyinka:
I am sure you know that the Christian Scripture is written in three original language from which all translations are made Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. The children of Israel had at different times in their history spoken these major languages in their day to day activities (depending on the nation that ruled over them). God had not insisted in using only Hebrew to speak to them but whichever language they are comfortable with. In the time of Jesus Aramaic was spoken in day to day activities, Hebrew was spoken in worship and Greek was more or less the language of business, education and writings.
[/b]

shadeyinka:

You muslims don't like been judged by your own narrations. You make many blatant assertions especially about your prophet unfortunately, its your own Hadiths that also betray the truth,.

If any moslem copy the life of prophet Mohammed, can he be wrong in this modern time?

1. A defensive war is always fought in your own terrein against an aggressor
2. An offensive war is always fought in the terrein of the enemy

Do you agree with the statements in bold?

mhmsadyq:


The statement sound plausible but it may not be a generalization.

As Muslims, we believe the prophet is the best example for mankind.

mhmsadyq:


The statement sound plausible but it may not be a generalization.

As Muslims, we believe the prophet is the best example for mankind.

mhmsadyq:


Was Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek the only languages on earth then?

If the prophet had not been an Arabian, may be we wouldn't be talking about the Qur'an in Arabic language today.

shadeyinka:

Permit me to respond to this in two separate posts

Unfortuntately, your argument doesnt go with usual islamic evidence or proof for the validity of this ayah. Examples of everything in pairs are stated as Light and Darkness, Male and Female, Hills and Valleys, White and Black, etc.
The pairs are not ever presented as two Bdelloidea or two Hermaphrodites.

If I get you well, your argument is that everything was created in TWOS. Then the argument of Light and Darkness, Male and Female fall completly FLAT. If your argument is that God made TWO Bdelloideas and TWO Hermaphrodite fungis then, we must agree that God made TWO Hills, TWO Valleys, TWO Men, Two Women.

Secondly, does this apply also to the SUN and MOON? For our sun and moon are included in EVERYTHING Allah made in Pairs?

Your argument is faulty bro!

shadeyinka:

These were the language spoken by the Jews at different times in their history.

It mean that God is not confined to any language and anyone who narrow God down to any fixed language doesn't know God. God is concerned not with a language but communication with with His people all over the world.

mhmsadyq:


If Shakespeare's works are still in circulation cos of its historical and Cultural nature -- i think historical and cultural value should be more appropriate, why do you think the Qur'an shouldn't get more?

I guess you are not a literally student for you to say Shakespeare's works convey little value.
why is it still very much sort after?

mhmsadyq:

I appreciate the fact, that you understand not just anybody can translate the Qur'an.

The Qur'an is already translated in many languages of the word.