Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? - Religion - Nairaland
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| Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by livingchrist: 4:54pm On Apr 16, 2021 |
The short answer is no! Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. Did bible reveals that the righteousness of God has always being by faith right from the creation of the world. Righteous works are a fruit of faith. Abel offered his offerings by faith but cain did not offer his sacrifice by faith hence his works were bad. The only way man can walk with God is by faith for example Abraham believed in God that is why he left his father's house when God called him. He offered up Isaac by faith. It is faith is counted for righteousness, but however faith in itself is worthless if it is not placed on God. People were declared righteous after believing the gospel. The mistake that many make is that they think the gospel only existed in the new testament, so they assume that before Christ came people were saved by works. The gospel is not only the new testament but in fact the gospel was in the old testament. But first, what is the gospel? The gospel means good news to be believed, the gospel both reveals the goodness of God, and his righteousness, anyone who believes the Gospel is declared righteous as a result of God's own goodness not as a result of work done by that person. God is a preacher Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. God preached to Abraham the gospel, Right there in the garden of Eden God preached the gospel. Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Adam and Eve received this promise from God that a seed would be given to her by God that will bruise the head of the serpent. After the fall in Eden Adam and Eve realised the kind of terrible and hopeless situation they have plunged their descendants into, they have just sold the whole world into the slavery of corruption, sin and condemnation, but in this hopeless situation the gospel was preached " your seed would bruise the head of the serpent" this means freedom from the tyrannical rule and domination of the serpent, for as long as sin and evil continue to reign then the serpent would have dominion.. Secondly, when the rushed to sew fig leaves to cover their unclothedness God sew a better clothing for them made of animal skin which clearly means that redemption can never come from man's ingenuity but from the shedding of blood belonging to one who is sinless. So, the the ancient saints knew that righteousness can only come from God not by man's work. Abel believe in God base on the gospel preached to him probably by his parent who probably passed down their experienc to their descendants, just as we preached Christ today. Although, they did not know christ physically but unknown to them they believed in him because Jesus is the seed that bruised the serpent's head on the cross so that by believing on him one would be free from the bondage of sin, condemnation and corruption. John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 2 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by Ogamysamo: 5:08pm On Apr 16, 2021 |
no! hebrew 11. said, their faith was counted to them for their righteousness 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by LisaAnneMia: 5:30pm On Apr 16, 2021 |
Nice write-up  2 Likes |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by livingchrist: 6:15pm On Apr 16, 2021 |
Ogamysamo:that's right |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by livingchrist: 6:16pm On Apr 16, 2021 |
LisaAnneMia:thanks God bless you |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by LisaAnneMia: 7:20pm On Apr 16, 2021 |
livingchrist:You too |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by Dtruthspeaker: 7:26pm On Apr 16, 2021 |
livingchrist: Kind of Wrong! They were Righteous because THEY DID RIGHT WORKS/DEEDS/ACTS or Their Works/Acts/Deeds was Right! And God, The Righteous Judge, Adjudged them and their Work/Deeds/Rights Righteous! |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by livingchrist: 8:12pm On Apr 16, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker:They did right works because they believed. However, it was faith that was counted as righteousness before God. 1 Like |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by Dtruthspeaker: 8:26pm On Apr 16, 2021 |
livingchrist: Look Again, "Faith" is the Execution and Application of "Belief" which is Proven by Works/Deeds/Action!. Because you believed your doctor/Surgeon, you commited yourself to his table (Action/Deed/Work); because you believed your mechanic, you committed your engine to his workshop; So also because Abraham and Co believed God, they Heeded and Obeyed His Voice (Action/Deeds/Works) Obedience is the Beginning of Righteousness! And Continuous Obedience to God (Acts/Deeds/Works) is Righteousness in Motion (RIM) And PROOF/EVIDENCE OF FAITH IN GOD! Hence, it is Written Faith Without Works (Evidence/Proof) is Dead! |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by livingchrist: 8:43pm On Apr 16, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker: Work or deed is not the beginning of righteousness, do you have a biblical backing for this? Again look, Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. It was Abraham faith that was counted as righteousness. Like you said it is faith that causes right works. James was only illustrating the relationship between faith and works, he didnt tell you works make you righteous. |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by Dtruthspeaker: 9:17pm On Apr 16, 2021 |
livingchrist: I do have biblical Proof! Before Genesis 15:6 was Genesis 12:1 ABRAHAM'S FIRST RECORDED Deed/Act/Work, God Suddenly Commanded Abraham to move" And what did he Do? (Deed/Act/Work) Did he Disobey and make excuses like many people I know and you know? No, He Obeyed God and Wil-fully Moved!.(Deed/Act/Work)! in Law, we call it "Actus Reus"! Is Obedience to God not Right Ab Initio? Is Will-full Obedience to God Not The Beginning of Rightness or Righteousness? Is There Any Greater or Higher Rightness than Obeying (Deed/Act/Work) God? Is there Any Record Before Genesis 15:6 where Abraham did not (Deed/Act/Work) in Obedience to God? No, Not One! All his (Deeds/Acts/Works) Recorded were Perfectly Right. livingchrist: Wrong, and Anyway, it wass Already Pre-Written "Even a child is known by his doings, (Deeds/Acts/Works) Whether HIS WORK (Deed/Act/Work) BE PURE, and whether it BE RIGHT.(Righteous) Proverbs 20:11 Moreover, it is Further Written "For God shall bring EVERY WORK (Deeds/Acts/Works) into judgment, with every secret thing, WHETHER IT BE GOOD, (Righteous) or whether it be evil (unrighteous)" Ecclesiastes 12:14 |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by MightySparrow: 1:57am On Apr 17, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker like kobojunkie is a zealous person with little knowledge and loud language. Your contribution in the other similar thread sold you out. Take time to study the Epistle to Romans. Use other write - ups, internet for more light. You seem to have little understanding on the subject matter. |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by livingchrist: 6:45am On Apr 17, 2021 |
You have not answered my question where is it written that anybody was made righteous by their works. Dtruthspeaker: |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by Dtruthspeaker: 7:52am On Apr 17, 2021 |
MightySparrow: Translation: Since I am Unable to Attack Dtruthspeaker's Assessment, so let me just attack him instead, (Ad hominem) at least that one I can do. |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by Dtruthspeaker: 8:48am On Apr 17, 2021 |
livingchrist: No sir, that's not the question, this was the question you clearly asked livingchrist: Now, I have answered and supplied the "Biblical Backing" so now you have changed the question. To the question "where is it written that anybody was made righteous by their works?" I never said anyone was made righteous by their works, No I did not, for I know "the man maketh, the work, and the work can not and does not make the man" A wicked man can still do a Right work eg An Armed Robber giving to the poor, But it would go to Judgment! So also A Right Doer can still do A Wrong eg A Pastor/Levite can still commit Adultery, Murder, etc, it would still go to Judgement! Thus, I do not Pre-Judge anyone most especially as I have not been appointed Judge over their matter neither would I ever Pre-Judge. However, I can readily and joyfully talk about Decided Cases and Their Judgements thereof, all my life long!  Knowing this is why i clearly said They were Righteous because God, The Righteous Judge, Adjudged them Righteous. (A Decided Case) Basing and Grounding His Judgement of Righteousness Upon their WORKS/DEEDS/ACTS, in Consonance with The Law - "For God shall bring EVERY WORK (Deeds/Acts/Works) into judgment, with every secret thing, WHETHER IT BE GOOD, (Righteous) or whether it be evil (unrighteous)" Ecclesiastes 12:14 And I Personally Allign and Agree with The Judgement God Entered for them for Indeed THEY DID DO THE RIGHT and Their Works/Acts/Deeds was In Deed RIGHT! |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by bobestman(m): 10:17am On Apr 17, 2021 |
Christians and Ignorance. Always quoting Bible but never understand. The book had been turned many times such that many truths had been removed. It's very funny that many of you think that your religion is the only way to the Creator and if one doesn't believe in the Oyibo man(Jesus) Rome gave you, He/she is doomed. The creator created man with a spirit and soul and gave him #Freewill. That spirit in man is a little portion of the creator in you. It's thru it that the Creator knows you and everything you do. That spirit is why we are called gods. Thru it the law of Freewill works in us. We know what is good and what is evil. When you do good and live right you enjoy fellowship with that spirit in you, you hear him atimes and he guides and leads you. The more you walk with him, the more you know him more. Thru him you know the creator and he knows you and this is counted to you as righteousness. This was how Enoch became one with his creator and became deathless. The ancient path is the best and first and remember the first shall be the last or the only one to stand in the end. On the other hand when you do wrong, the spirit drift away from you or the voice become still. The more evil, the more he leaves you and you will no longer hear that still voice that pricks you when you do bad- this is unrighteousness or blindness or sin which the creator hates. So right from the begining till now it has been by that spirit not by any religion you follow. The creator never created any religion, same with the Messiah when He came to earth. He always teaches ppl to repent and live right. Many religious books you read today were copied from teachings of righteous men that can help ppl live right. Those books help us maintain law and order in our world and help us know who the Creator is. Men copied from such books and writings to give and create many religion you all follow today. Read many of the Messiah's parables to understand many of his teachings. The parable of the Good Samaritan is a good one. Many religious ppl saw the wounded guy including pastors and priests but a good guy came from no where to do the needful. What did the Messiah said about him in the end? See it's not about your religions but living right, fearing the Creator and doing good cos all your religion today are apostate and the lies many of you don't know today is greater than the truths 8n all of them. Wake up ppl! |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by Dtruthspeaker: 10:35am On Apr 17, 2021 |
bobestman: Good, you said "many Truths have been removed"! We are happy to walk and work with the Truths we already have contained therein, So No Problem! |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by bobestman(m): 10:56am On Apr 17, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker: Yea I agree with the scriptures but what you all read today has been turned many times and true meaning lost. Many won't agree to that |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by Dtruthspeaker: 11:06am On Apr 17, 2021 |
bobestman: As Daniel Said "Times and Seasons and Words and Truths have been Altered, Changed and Swapped. However, if we go back to the Ancient Paths, we would Uncover and Find The Truths Hidden! The Truth is in the Past!! I have some in my threads https://www.nairaland.com/6306634/truth-past |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by bobestman(m): 11:11am On Apr 17, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker: Exactly bro. The ancient path is the first and last - the original. Even the book says the ancient people will teach the whole world the lost truth Isaiah 44:7; 47:6 |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by Dtruthspeaker: 11:13am On Apr 17, 2021 |
bobestman: Yes Brother, The Unchanging and The Unchanged! Many Truths have been Changed and Altered but I live to Find Them, Identify Them and Change them back to their True And Natural State and bring them here! |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by livingchrist: 2:29pm On Apr 17, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker:yet you are yet to show where it was written that works is the beginning of righteousness. |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by Dtruthspeaker: 3:38pm On Apr 17, 2021 |
livingchrist: Come on, do not feign lack of knowledge, i showed you the first time and you saw it and you got it, which was why you went on to confess your issue about people using their works to make them righteous, which I have just shot to smithereens! Now, you are attempting to claim that I did not show the beginning of righteousness, when in fact, you saw it up there. To Wit- "Before Genesis 15:6 which you presented was Genesis 12:1 ABRAHAM'S FIRST RECORDED Deed/Act/Work, God Suddenly Commanded Abraham to move" And what did he Do? (Deed/Act/Work) Did he Disobey and make excuses like many people I know and you know? No, He Obeyed God and Wil-fully Moved!.(Deed/Act/Work)! in Law, we call it "Actus Reus"! Is Obedience to God not Right Ab Initio? Is Will-full Obedience to God Not The Beginning of Rightness or Righteousness? Is There Any Greater or Higher Rightness than Obeying (Deed/Act/Work) God? Is there Any Record Before Genesis 15:6 where Abraham did not (Deed/Act/Work) in Obedience to God? No, Not One! All his (Deeds/Acts/Works) Recorded were Perfectly Right." All the people called Righteous by God where in deed Honourable and Just men, but you are not being honourable when you feign and pretend! These matters are Life and Death and therefore it is not a competition but A Verification and A Testing that, that which I know and have learnt is True because, it has been Attacked and Tested and it Still Stands Firm Exactly as All Truth is! |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by livingchrist: 3:55pm On Apr 17, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker:you have not answered any question, I dont think you even understand yourself, If works where the beginning of righteousness why was was it that, only after he believed in the Lord before he was declared righteous? According to Genesis it was Abraham's faith that was counted to him for righteousness not his works, his works only demonstrated his faith. |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by paxonel(m): 4:27pm On Apr 17, 2021 |
What is faith? Faith is religion. They were righteous by their old testament religion Judaism just the way we are righteous by our Christian religion today, it's as simple as that |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by Dtruthspeaker: 5:03pm On Apr 17, 2021 |
livingchrist: Because Judgement Cometh at The End of a Matter and not during the course of the matter! Wages is Only Paid at the End of Work and Reward is Given Only at the End of Labour! Hence the wages of Sin is death! The wages of righteousness is Life! |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by sonmvayina(m): 5:14pm On Apr 17, 2021 |
Like i said in one of my post, God gave all of humanity his laws to keep and obey. Some human beings choose to disobey and as such we are living in fear. God is only going to bless or punish us based on observance of his laws. They are forever No jarkel, robort or alien is coming to change it...judgement is only meant for the living. You keep the commandments you live, you disobey it..you die...simple and short. You can only be judge righteous by obeying Gods commandments. Not in believing absurdities like God impregnating another mans wife to sire a son. God have already judge man, which is "from dust you where made to dust you shall return." S |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by livingchrist: 8:04pm On Apr 17, 2021 |
Dtruthspeaker:you are far from the scripture. Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it (faith) to him for righteousness. I pray God should lead you out of darkness 1 Like |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by Kobojunkiee: 8:31pm On Apr 17, 2021 |
bobestman:Interesting! So, do we simply extract one parable and then abandon everything else attributed to the same Jesus Christ?"-\ On the topic of work(acts of obedience), faith(cumulative works are done in submission to God), and Righteousness, which of His many parables do you think appropriately fits into this topic here?  |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by Kobojunkiee: 8:43pm On Apr 17, 2021 |
paxonel:Where work refers to the act done in obedience to God's commandment, faith is the cumulative work done by an individual in submission(trust) to God. Righteousness refers to the quality of having fulfilled God's requirement, for the promised reward. In Jesus Christ, the reward is an eternal reward in the Kingdom of Heaven, while for those who are instead of the Old Covenant Law of Moses, the reward is instead eternity in the land of Canaan. Now, works of Righteousness refer to the particular works necessary to fulfilling God's requirement - God being the Judge. The works required are not arbitrary as they are listed right there in scripture for those who are interested to know. In Jesus Christ, the works of Righteousness are listed in Matthew 25 vs 31 - 40, while God re-lists the Old Covenant works of righteousness in Ezekiel 18, Isaiah 58, and even in Ezekiel 33. In Job 31, we read of the man Job read of Job listing the works he had himself done in obedience to God's own commandments. |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by Dtruthspeaker: 8:51pm On Apr 17, 2021 |
livingchrist: I understand, You Could not find any Fault after All, so you are just returning to your former base.Genesis 15:6 is The Judgment given to Abraham. And the Fact of His Case Giving Rise to This Judgement begun from his FIRST RECORDED Deed/Act/Work, in Genesis 12:1!  |
| Re: Did Old Testament Saint Became Righteous Through Their Works? by bobestman(m): 10:31pm On Apr 17, 2021 |
Kobojunkiee: I didn't say it is about a particular parable. The Messiah thought on many subjects and all his teachings is about righteous living. My point is that He never compelled anyone to join a certain group to know the creator. He teaches ppl to repent, obey the Creator, help the poor, live in peace with your fellow men, do good, help the widow, keep the commands which is rooted on Love etc and at the end believe in him and you will never go wrong. This was how things were in the begining. Man who already knew what is good and evil was given Freewill. If He choose to do good, he inherits eternal life - became deathless. If He does bad, he will likewise face the consequences. Unfortunately after the Messiah was murdered, some started creating religions which they established by their own traditions and doctrines with a little touch of what the Messiah taught ppl and claim it's the true way. Some say they are Christians, Muslims, Jews etc without them you will go to hell. Some say give your life to Jesus, and I asked where did the Messiah told ppl to give their lives to him? He only said believe in me. If you ask them have they seen Jesus? They will say NO. Those who claim to have seen him will say He has a blue eyes, long hair and light skin as they show them in Hollywood and other bla bla bla. The Messiah created no religion. He taught people to do good, fear the Creator and live a righteous life. Well, they will understand at the right time. |
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