very educative I wish this type of what we see most here on nairaland

Igbochief001:

I have always known you are not too smart but calm down

Enugu airport is a federal airport ...and u need to build the aviation hub in the airport ...enugu promised to give federal government 2 times the land back but they said no

U need federal government permission to build a sea port ...and they can delay it the way they want

Bill debate ...the electoral act that was passed was it signed ?

You how do you think a state can develop in the present nigerian structure ...and why haven't any state done it

I have always known that majority of Nigerians are not different from our current set of political leaders..

How are the Northerners getting their bills passed and Signed that educated Southerners are blaming the Almajiri for their woes..

Does it mean the northeners always pass the bill without the Yes or Nay from Southerners in the chamber?

OBJ served 8 years, GEJ served 5 years, they are both Southerners yet they couldn't approve all what you listed but you are expecting an Almajiri man to come and grant you your wish/request?

Have you asked yourself why those Southern presidency did not take those request serious?

Both past and current leaders have been useless.. Stop blaming all the Nigeria's problems on the structure..

Btw, the Nigeria structure, is it Aliens from Pluto that are going to change the structure??

helinues:


I have always known that majority of Nigerians are not different from our current set of political leaders..

How are the Northerners getting their bills passed and Signed that educated Southerners are blaming the Almajiri for their woes..

Does it mean the northeners always pass the bill without the Yes or Nay from Southerners in the chamber?

OBJ served 8 years, GEJ served 5 years, they are both Southerners yet they couldn't approve all what you listed but you are expecting an Almajiri man to come and grant you your wish/request?

Have you asked yourself why those Southern presidency did not take those request serious?

Both past and current leaders have been useless.. Stop blaming all the Nigeria's problems on the structure..

Btw, the Nigeria structure, is it Aliens from Pluto that are going to change the structure??

Most Southerners need northern politicians and power brokers support to win election in the south ...to have inec and police / army by their side .... without witch most can't win election

Without northern support can fayemi with ekiti ? Osun governor nko ? Same with abia governor ( all APC needed to win was present ngwa man that's all but they didn't ) ...imo governor ? The list is endless ....most are corrupt and north hold them by the balls

So they can't go against northern ideas but north can go against theirs they can or talk simple

Can senator smart adeyemi go against north ? Or the APC senator in imo north ?

If you don't understand this then you don't even understand nigerians problem

We want restructuring or separation most to stop north from Influencing those tho win elections in our locality that's the major reason ... second is the economic policies

Igbochief001:

Most Southerners need northern politicians and power brokers support to win election in the south ...to have inec and police / army by their side .... without witch most can't win election

Without northern support can fayemi with ekiti ? Osun governor nko ? Same with abia governor ( all APC needed to win was present ngwa man that's all but they didn't ) ...imo governor ? The list is endless ....most are corrupt and north hold them by the balls

So they can't go against northern ideas but north can go against theirs they can or talk simple

Can senator smart adeyemi go against north ? Or the APC senator in imo north ?

If you don't understand this then you don't even understand nigerians problem

We want restructuring or separation most to stop north from Influencing those tho win elections in our locality that's the major reason ... second is the economic policies

Is that the excuse they have been telling you... You have sunk so much of Politicians lies aswear..

If Northerners need Southerners to get their bill passed, how are the Northerners been able to negotiate with the Southerners in the house that Southerners can't negotiate with Northern reps to get their bill passed?

Please clear me out...

helinues:


Is that the excuse they have been telling you... You have sunk so much of Politicians lies aswear..

If Northerners need Southerners to get their bill passed, how are the Northerners been able to negotiate with the Southerners in the house that Southerners can't negotiate with Northern reps to get their bill passed?

Please clear me out...

The post u quoted already explained that oga ...read it slowly

Igbochief001:

The post u quoted already explained that oga ...read it slowly

So they can't go against northern ideas but north can go against theirs they can or talk simple

That's educated Southerners vs the so called Illiterate Almajiri...

I am sha hoping you are not having aspiration in becoming a politician in the future cos na likes of you are the one currently leading/representing us...

They can't go against Northern ideas.... Gosh!!!

helinues:




That's educated Southerners vs the so called Illiterate Almajiri...

I am sha hoping you are not having aspiration in becoming a politician in the future cos na likes of you are the one currently leading/representing us...

They can't go against Northern ideas.... Gosh!!!

How many politicians in the south can win election with police and army backing ?

Who controls police n army ?

Lmao you really don't get why north are keen on maintaining Nigeria as it is ...it gives them too much power

Igbochief001:

How many politicians in the south can win election with police and army backing ?

Who controls police n army ?

Lmao you really don't get why north are keen on maintaining Nigeria as it is ...it gives them too much power

That's educated Southerners vs the so called Illiterate Almajiri

Bro tbh, you are not sounding good with your argument...

Amma rather waka jejeli

helinues:


Is that the excuse they have been telling you... You have sunk so much of Politicians lies aswear..

If Northerners need Southerners to get their bill passed, how are the Northerners been able to negotiate with the Southerners in the house that Southerners can't negotiate with Northern reps to get their bill passed?

Please clear me out...

The north has more representatives in the house than the south

helinues:


Bro tbh, you are not sounding good with your argument...

Amma rather waka jejeli

Igbochief001 argument is on point tho.

Sammy07:



The north has more representatives in the house than the south

If Northerners need Southerners to get their bill passed, how are the Northerners been able to negotiate with the Southerners in the house that Southerners can't negotiate with Northern reps to get their bill passed?

So if you guys were to represent Southern Nigeria in a debate, that would have been your line of argument.

Chisos...

helinues:


Wait, is it that you are finding it hard to comprehend what I have been writing or what?

What's stopping each region/state from developing their land now? Are they waiting for restructuring / or new country before they can embark on development?

Ordinary states in a region have not worked together, develop together, create jobs together.. Who will rescue the unviable state when oil money stopped?

How does this writeup of yours make sense to you?
Could it be that you have no understanding of how the power structure between the states and the FG works or you are just a sentimental apologist of a unitary system?
All the critical infrastructures(railway, seaport etc) which are needed to transform or improve the revenue structure of a state are all in the exclusive, which means that only the FG can construct them or approve their construction. When the country is restructured and each region/state becomes autonomous, Anambra state for instance would not need the FG to approve their airport for international flight;Akwaibom would not need the approval of Abuja before they can build their seaport; States in the southeast, South South or even southwest can lias with each other and construct railway routes that would connect all the state in that region. They wouldn't have to wait for FG to do that. Every state will start to think inwards regarding what they can do to generate money. The current unitary system where every state government is sitting idle waiting for monthly allocation from Abj is highly inefficient. Given the global demand and clamouring for greener and more environmentally-friendly energy, it is a matter of time before oil revenue will reduce to the extent that it can no longer sustain an economy. Perhaps, only by then will restructuring or even total disintegration begin to make sense to folks like you

helinues:


So if you guys were to represent Southern Nigeria in a debate, that would have been your line of argument.

Chisos...

Have you forgotten that in the house, majority carries the vote.
And Both the upper chamber and lower chamber.
The North has upper hands, more population.

And Yes, restructuring is the way to go.
Each state or region should do it according to their own will not needing permission from Abuja Whatsoever

Sammy07:


Have you forgotten that in the house, majority carries the vote.
And Both the upper chamber and lower chamber.
The North has upper hands, more population.

And Yes, restructuring is the way to go.
Each state or region should do it according to their own will not needing permission from Abuja Whatsoever

Please is Monday morning..

Why una dey too swallow politicians lies like this?

Can Northerners pass any bill without a single support from Southerners..

Are all the Northerners in the same political party?

helinues:


Please is Monday morning..

Why una dey too swallow politicians lies like this?

Can Northerners pass any bill without a single support from Southerners..

Are all the Northerners in the same political party?

It doesn't matter If they are not in the same party.
Ain't they the same people?
Would they go against each other because of party? Lol.

And yes, its 100% possible for them to pass bill without southerners support if we're all yo go tribal

Sammy07:


It doesn't matter If they are not in the same party.
Ain't they the same people?
Would they go against each other because of party? Lol.

Would you say the same about Southerners?

I mean exactly what you wrote above?

helinues:


Would you say the same about Southerners?

I mean exactly what you wrote above?

Well No, because we don't have the same ideology and we ain't united.
Even if we do, we don't have the numbers

Sammy07:


Well No, because we don't have the same ideology and we ain't united.
Even if we do, we don't have the numbers

Bro this argument no dey make sense aswear..

So you mean Southerners would present a development bill about their region and the northerners would just decided to vote against it cos they have the number in house and senate?

How are the rail, roads construction bills in Southern Nigeria are been passed?

phineas:


The summary of your essay is IGR from high taxes is the evidence off a subservient population.And its not possible in some regions.interesting...I'll complete this later

I have always felt the community tax system in the east needs to be documented as casestudies for historical perspective to taxation in the south east and south south region

These communities have been collecting community tax for ages.they still do from all their sons and daughters wherever they may be.I learnt the famous expensive bride price as a form of community tax in it that makes it high.Those who have not been paying get the total calculated for them when they come over to mary or bury loved ones and they pay up all arrears before they can proceed.Add the cultural neccesity of all marraiges and burials must hold in the region to be honiured and you find These are effective control measures for compliance.

I also know some of these community taxes are said to be apportioned to the care of the vulnerable in the community and other initiatives the community deems is their responsibility or shared amongst themselves

So you see the southern region historically are not new to taxes they just pay theirs in a different way.Im not sure what taxation was like in the old eastern region.I can check that up and update this or ask our Nairaland encyclopaedia Naptu.

That said I understand your explanation of any Goverment in that region that increases bussiness tax will be unpopular because it is a region of bussiness men.And payee may not generate that much because the bussinesses run with low earning and few man power.

Is it possible then hypothetically that bussinesses from these communities Can be motivated to pay at a much lower level like LGA or ward and have the fund administered from that level? (I know Nigerias existing tax system at all levels,I mean if they were to restructure their tax system to suit them) , local level taxation in communities such as that may promote ownership, stimulate competition amongst local bussiness e.g communities may say .... gave that amount to his LGA and ...gave ...amount to his. But individuals cannot continue earning from a community and not pay tax to its Goverment.You all know its not so anywhere in the world.

For a society to fund itself its either through taxes from its people,or conquest of others for their taxes or money(e.g France and its francophone stooges who have their money in France's CBN), or State owned bussiness. That has to be solved or the region cannot truly Govern,sustain itself or achieve any meaningful development

You raised Very important points.. For instance the community tax system of traditional igbo societies and the need to look at the possibility of utilizing such methods in collecting taxes. I'm tempted to digress because personally, i fancy that idea since I strongly believe that typical "traditional administrative systems" in "traditional African societies" should be tapped while structuring "modern administrative set ups" in these areas...
For instance, a research should have been conducted on say the Ézè, Nze na Ózò "traditional administrative checks and balances" that held up officialdom in these societies for ages. The utterly unproductive "National Assembly, House of Assembly and chancellorship" that are constitutionally charged with keeping the executives in check in the 3 levels of government in this country are so culturally removed from their immediate environments that they have become so utterly corrupt, absolutely useless and nothing but a huge burden to the collective purse.. Your senators and House members dragging The Mace sometimes during impeachments, and you can see how confused they're as to why a 'wooden plank' has become so powerful all of a sudden... None can relate to the story behind "The Mace".. The "bicameral" drain in our legislative branch....To think that the Nze na Ózòs did similar works without pay...
Another topic for another day..

Back to the topic,
Businesses pay taxes in Nigeria. Both in the east and elsewhere. Ofcourse, Nigerians like to dodge taxes, but businesses when cornered, do pay taxes. The issue is not really whether businesses here can pay taxes, they can! The problem is that there are lots of corruption in government and an alarming lack of adequate training for civil servants in the system. . The Board of Internal Revenue, which is supposed to be the government arm entrusted with collecting taxes and rates are now totally useless and corrupt. In many states, Lagos is a good example, politicians have concessioned off the functions of this agency to cronies. This has emboldened corrupt activities within the system while alienating the tax paying businesses and concerns.. Just as is the case with other sections of the society, the realization that taxes collected might be embezzled has also stiffened opposition to tax payments! It's very important to encourage businesses to pay taxes as you alluded to, but two things are involved here: 1) taxes collected must be utilized to do the job of improving government delivery of services in order to engander trust and
2) taxe rates should be calibrated in a way they don't become a burden to individuals and businesses.. Piling on taxes in a comatose economy enmeshed in chokehold-recession is nothing but tightening the noose..

helinues:
You see why I said those who are shouting for restructuring are either a joker or they are confused...

Restructuring when ordinary LG are yet to have full autonomy?

Restructuring when the state governors have not created any new means of generating income but still depend heavily on monthly Oyel money.. Nothing like that again if the country is restructured.

Restructuring when state like Bayelsa is still struggling to pay salary upon 13% monthly derivative with population of less than 3 million people.

Restructuring when Kano has not partner with Gombe in assisting with development in the state?

Is Anambra going to share his income with Ebonyi state?

Can Lagos state bear the over burden of state like Ekiti?

Lagos can very well bear the burden of Ekiti even if the two states are merged as one.
Ekiti has land which lagos can invest in for Agriculture. The population is under 5m though that will mean less taxes but a creative leader ought balance it with the resources in Ekiti.

helinues:
You see why I said those who are shouting for restructuring are either a joker or they are confused...

Restructuring when ordinary LG are yet to have full autonomy?

Restructuring when the state governors have not created any new means of generating income but still depend heavily on monthly Oyel money.. Nothing like that again if the country is restructured.

Restructuring when state like Bayelsa is still struggling to pay salary upon 13% monthly derivative with population of less than 3 million people.

Restructuring when Kano has not partner with Gombe in assisting with development in the state?

Is Anambra going to share his income with Ebonyi state?

Can Lagos state bear the over burden of state like Ekiti?

Restructuring is basically falling back to true federalism as is practiced all over the world, states control their resources and remit a certain percentage to the centre, by implication the centre unburden itself of certain responsibilities which are currently in the exclusive list and overbearing.

The federal or the central government distributes or deploy such resources to states that are not robust enough as interventions, each state is allowed to grow at it's own pace, they can customize their laws as they see fit, fix their salary scale in line with their capabilities and peculiar circumstances, create their own security outfits that better understand their terrain and distinct make up, make their electoral laws and election cycle without having to shut down the whole country during election years etc.

Restructuring isn't only about resource control, there somuch to it and it allows for healthy competition and dissuade those whose sole aim is to go and share money in Abuja including politicians that go the extra mile to win elections because there's somuch money available for the taking.

Don't be scared of better change youngman afteral you're amongst the nairaland front gunners that pushed for the peculiar CHANGE that have us all on our knees right now.

YOU are not very smart. You keep regurgitating balderdash as recycled arguments all over the thread. Now, it seems you understand yoruba as a Fulani Man that you are. What happens when you beat a child and tells him not to cry? How the heck do you immobilize someone and still expect him to move about? The apex he could do is to crawl. That represents the situation here. Although I understand your theory that since malgovernance presently impedes states from efficiency, the same will repeat in a restructured environment. While that has some bits of validity, it doesn't cut through the mainstream argument. There really can't be any meaningful development at state level now when, out of the 91 items that constitute the sovereignty of a country, 68 are exclusively in the firm grip of the federal government. The FG has sole control over army, police, foreign affairs, mineral deposits, energy and oil, power, foreign affairs, coinage, ports, and many other meaningful aspects of national sovereignty. Even the few items in the concurrent list such as education, agriculture etc. are shared by both the FG and states, and in the case of clash of jurisdictions, preeminence is given to the FG. How is that workable in a supposed Federation? Heck, that is a disguised unitarianism out in place to main uniform stagnation or even retrogression.

The most basic thing in a federation is to devolve power. In most cases, only diverse and fragile countries become federations. The essence is to ensure that each unit that is different from another can retain the most important components of autonomy while still in a union with other diverse units as a single country. So due to the diversity concerns and agitations that may often follow, federalism is out in place to ensure EQUITY, not equality, and RESOURCE JUSTICE, not sharing formulas. In a workable union, the states control most generative sectors and remit to the central government for the smooth running of the country.

Do you even know why we have two legislative chambers in a federation? It's all to support the issue of justice, equity and autonomy of the components. The Senate or Upper Chamber has three from each state to give states equal voice at the federal representation. The Lower Chamber proportionally portrays the reality of the country's demographic composition. So in case if big populated states are trying to pass lopsided laws or use their large size to bully small states, the Upper Chamber where states have equal representation can offset such exercise, hence bills must pass through the two HOUSES and then to the Executive to become laws. Learn. Stop using your local Herdsmen knowledge to visualize how a federation is run. Look up to others viable federations like the U.S. and Australia and Germany, and even the UK (regionalism of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland).

helinues:


Please is Monday morning..

Why una dey too swallow politicians lies like this?

Can Northerners pass any bill without a single support from Southerners..

Are all the Northerners in the same political party?

OnlyDeCapPlease:


The amount of IGR might be a mirage in some regions if restructuring takes place or Nigeria breaks. IGR is just redistribution of money that is ALREADY in the country. The less money available to redistribute, the less IGR will be distributed. Therefore if some regions end up being in a different country or different structural zone from the oil producing regions (that account for over 90% of the money that comes into Nigeria to be redistributed), how will they be able to generate activities to sustain such internal revenue? Wouldn't it be like the case of a rich family where the husband or wife brings in 90% of the income. If they divorce and share custody of children, wouldn’t it be the children that end up with the 90% earner that will continue to enjoy a rich lifestyle? What plans do regions, especially the ones agitating for restructuring or break up, have to replace the revenue currently enjoyed from FAAC and those revenues that end up in their region because of the current commercial status that they enjoy (shipping, financial services, avaition) in Nigeria right now? Bearing in mind that an independent (or financially structurally independent) South/South will be capable of setting up state of the art air and seaports with competitive rates to attract users from regions around them and even from neighbouring countries.

My point here is that levels of current IIGRin some regions will be impossible to be matched if Nigeria is restructured or broken up, even if they introduce unforgiving extra high tax rates, which in itself will quicken the departure of people to other regions.

Don't forget that oil and gas resources should contribute to the igr of the regions where they're found..
Post 1970, Gowon and his goons using military fiat hyjacked the earnings from these resources and made them federal resources soo to say.. Regions/states were supposed to be collecting these receipts while paying agreed ratesxas taxes to the feds!
So you see, if the oil and gas communities decide to bolt away really, they actually stand a better chance of accessing better revenue/income and life from their massive wealth.. The crook who will surely starve here is the federal government!
That said, I don't know what makes you suggest that the "separatist regions" may become poorer or less capable of generating financing needed to run modern states. They're as good as the rest of us or are as bad as everyone else... There is no part of the country angling to go away that can't build an economy as relatively peaceful as say Ghana or Botswana.... Compared to the massive emberassment that Nigeria has become, starting off like those countries is not totally disastrous..

helinues:


Eggzactly, wondering why the Biafra agitators and Oduduwa Republic agitators waiting to have their utopia country/restructuring before they can develop their respective states..

The moment they have either restructuring/their own own country, Aliens from Pluto would be the one in charge of government.....

One thing you don't to acknowledge is that laws and policies make a huge difference. How can a State embark on a generation of stable electricity supply when the FG clearly said it has power in its exclusive list? Expecting Lagos and Zamfara to grow at a different rates with same extant rules in place is an unachievable task. One of the reasons many States are claiming they can't pay the minimum wage imposed on them by FG.

As far as national cake is shared in Abuja on a monthly basis, no State will sit up and do the needful, even if they have the capacity to.

helinues:
You see why I said those who are shouting for restructuring are either a joker or they are confused...

Restructuring when ordinary LG are yet to have full autonomy?

Restructuring when the state governors have not created any new means of generating income but still depend heavily on monthly Oyel money.. Nothing like that again if the country is restructured.

Restructuring when state like Bayelsa is still struggling to pay salary upon 13% monthly derivative with population of less than 3 million people.

Restructuring when Kano has not partner with Gombe in assisting with development in the state?

Is Anambra going to share his income with Ebonyi state?

Can Lagos state bear the over burden of state like Ekiti?

,Though I really hate to reply naive people like you, but I just have to. So the system that has generated the so called burdens of states like Emotionally, Jigawa, and the likes should continue? So it is wise to keep driving in the wrong direction,even when it will lead you nowhere. You want a constitution that impoverished this states to continue because you fear that a certain section will be so much richer than the other. You are ready to sacrifice the potential of alot of states because you fear that yours will not survive.

helinues:


Wait, is it that you are finding it hard to comprehend what I have been writing or what?

What's stopping each region/state from developing their land now? Are they waiting for restructuring / or new country before they can embark on development?

Ordinary states in a region have not worked together, develop together, create jobs together.. Who will rescue the unviable state when oil money stopped?

With the existing laws, States are caged and handicapped.

Ask BUHARI

Ask MACBAN.

Igbochief001:

Did any region complain when we were in regional government ?

If restructured kano would reduce it's 44 lga to meet up

Bayelsa would make 4 times more money from oil ...what they do with it is not your business

So you are holding everyone back so that we can grow at the same pace ? Has that worked on the world history ?

If federal allocation stop coming then states would look for ways to earn money ...core northern states might even reverse sharia to bring in more investors and tourist

No body grows in his comfort zones

Some state would die and merge with other states and lose their senators and controlling power yes that what growth ensures

You are very correct. I too don't buy into this narrative that restructuring should be discarded just because some states appear non-viable. Of course the seeming non-viability of states like Bayelsa is rooted in this very unitary system as any honest person knows that under a strictly federal arrangement Bayelsa with 75% revenue retention will have the funds to meet up all its obligation while some Northern states will collapse except they look deeply inwards into their gold deposits and agriculture. Even the oil bearing states will sit up in the wake of the world's search for alternative and cleaner energy source. But I disagree with your opening rhetorical question of whether any region complained when we were practising regional government. The Eastern Region complained, else why did Ironsi, an Easterner tampere with the regions in the first instance before his successors now carried it further this current level we have today?

Deadlytruth:

You are very correct. I too don't buy into this narrative that restructuring should be discarded just because some states appear non-viable. Of course the seeming non-viability of states like Bayelsa if rooted in this very unitary system as any honest person knows that under a strictly federal arrangement Bayelsa with 75% revenue retention will have all the funds to meet up all its obligation while some Northern states will collapse except they look deeply inwards. Even the oil bearing states will sit up in the wake of the world's search for alternative and cleaner energy source. But my question remains why Ironsi dismantled federalism knowing fully well that unitary system portended grave social injustice for the oil producing states?

What have the states like Bayelsa, Akwa Ibom, Lagos doing with their monthly Oyel money?

Anything to show for it?

Deadlytruth:

You are very correct. I too don't buy into this narrative that restructuring should be discarded just because some states appear non-viable. Of course the seeming non-viability of states like Bayelsa if rooted in this very unitary system as any honest person knows that under a strictly federal arrangement Bayelsa with 75% revenue retention will have all the funds to meet up all its obligation while some Northern states will collapse except they look deeply inwards. Even the oil bearing states will sit up in the wake of the world's search for alternative and cleaner energy source. But my question remains why Ironsi dismantled federalism knowing fully well that unitary system portended grave social injustice for the oil producing states?

I honestly don't care what ironsi did ..today is all that matters