Grace is the product of the love God extended to mankind. Love can't be at one side. God extends his love by virtue of his grace to you, you are expected to return the love by your good works. That what confirms that you received grace.
What Grace preachers are getting wrong is that:there are two levels of grace extended to us from God.
GRACE UNTO REPENTANCE AND GRACE UNTO GOOD WORKS.
let me explain :
Every sinner is given the grace to repent from their sin and follow jesus christ.. No matter how drenched or deep in sin. Or how greatly they've sinned before.(infact in sin we were born)PSALM51:5:behold, I was sharpen in iniquity:and in sin did my mother conceive me... . That is GRACE UNTO REPENTANCE.
Now that the sinner repented truly, and was baptised with the spirit of grace (holy spirit) and to empower them to exhibit the the fruit of the Holy spirit ( good works) . That's GRACE UNTO GOOD WORKS.
ZACHARIAH 12:10:I WILL POUR UPON THE HOUSE OF DAVID, AND UPON THE INHABITANTS OF JERUSALEM, THE SPIRIT OF GRACE AND OF SUPPLICATIONS:AND THEY SHALL LOOK UPON ME WHOM THEY WILL HAVE PIERCED, AND THEY SHALL MOURN FOR HIM, AS ONE MOURNETH FOR HIS ONLY SON, AND SHALL BE IN BITTERNESS FOR HIM, AS ONE IN BITTERNESS FOR HUS FIRSTBORN.

GRACE UNTO GOOD Works is so powerful that if the believer,commit an offence or error by disobedience against the Holy spirit...he can rise again if he is truly sorry because the Holy spirit will convict him and refires him to continue in the journey with Christ.
That why a brethren can commit error by his negligence in prayer, disobedience to the Holy spirit, that's doesn't stop his healing annoiting to disappear immediately.
But he is playing with his rank and promotion in the spirit. (his boat is sinking gradually)

THAT'S WHAT GRACE WITHOUT WORK  PREACHERS   LIKE TO HEAR
, but they don't know that you can't deceive God, because he knows when you are truly sorry, he sees through the heart of men.
One of the greatest height of iniquity is when you sin deliberately because there is grace, such  grace will not work.
ROMANS 6:1:WHAT SHALL WE SAY THEN? SHALL WE CONTINUE IN SIN, THAT GRACE SHOULD ABOUND?.

REASON MANY ARE STILL BABIES IS THAT THEY'VE NOT TAKEN HOLINESS HAS A LIFE AND DEATH ISSUES. UNTIL THEN THEY WILL REMAIN BABIES.
POWERLESS CHRISTIANS.

You yourself don't understand the Grace of God.

[quote author=Goshen360 post=101438224]You yourself don't understand the Grace of God. [/quote
Then let hear from you sir,
Let hear the truth brewing, in your inside.

Goshen360:
You yourself don't understand the Grace of God.

I'd like to get a definite on what this grace of God is since according to the Gospel teachings of Jesus Christ, the grace of God that Jesus Christ was full of is the eternal life that He told us of.

Propheticdavid:
Grace is the product of the love God extended to mankind. Love can't be at one side. God extends his love by virtue of his grace to you, you are expected to return the love by your good works. That what confirms that you received grace.
What Grace preachers are getting wrong is that:there are two levels of grace extended to us from God.
GRACE UNTO REPENTANCE AND GRACE UNTO GOOD WORKS.
let me explain :
Every sinner is given the grace to repent from their sin and follow jesus christ.. No matter how drenched or deep in sin. Or how greatly they've sinned before.(infact in sin we were born)PSALM51:5:behold, I was sharpen in iniquity:and in sin did my mother conceive me... . That is GRACE UNTO REPENTANCE.
Now that the sinner repented truly, and was baptised with the spirit of grace (holy spirit) and to empower them to exhibit the the fruit of the Holy spirit ( good works) . That's GRACE UNTO GOOD WORKS.
ZACHARIAH 12:10:I WILL POUR UPON THE HOUSE OF DAVID, AND UPON THE INHABITANTS OF JERUSALEM, THE SPIRIT OF GRACE AND OF SUPPLICATIONS:AND THEY SHALL LOOK UPON ME WHOM THEY WILL HAVE PIERCED, AND THEY SHALL MOURN FOR HIM, AS ONE MOURNETH FOR HIS ONLY SON, AND SHALL BE IN BITTERNESS FOR HIM, AS ONE IN BITTERNESS FOR HUS FIRSTBORN.

GRACE UNTO GOOD Works is so powerful that if the believer,commit an offence or error by disobedience against the Holy spirit...he can rise again if he is truly sorry because the Holy spirit will convict him and refires him to continue in the journey with Christ.
That why a brethren can commit error by his negligence in prayer, disobedience to the Holy spirit, that's doesn't stop his healing annoiting to disappear immediately.
But he is playing with his rank and promotion in the spirit. (his boat is sinking gradually)

THAT'S WHAT GRACE WITHOUT WORK  PREACHERS   LIKE TO HEAR
, but they don't know that you can't deceive God, because he knows when you are truly sorry, he sees through the heart of men.
One of the greatest height of iniquity is when you sin deliberately because there is grace, such  grace will not work.
ROMANS 6:1:WHAT SHALL WE SAY THEN? SHALL WE CONTINUE IN SIN, THAT GRACE SHOULD ABOUND?.

REASON MANY ARE STILL BABIES IS THAT THEY'VE NOT TAKEN HOLINESS HAS A LIFE AND DEATH ISSUES. UNTIL THEN THEY WILL REMAIN BABIES.
POWERLESS CHRISTIANS.

1. You claim there are 2 levels of grace... where in scripture is this idea from?
2. Why would a one require grace to repent from his sins, and why does one need grace in order to do works?

Does a child who has erred need some special motivation in order to realize he ought to repent and beg his parents forgiveness?

Does a servant need some special oomph to know that he has to do the work that has been allotted Him by His master?

Jesus Christ came full of two things : eternal life of God which is translated as grace in some Bible translation and the Truth of God. Those who prescribe special meaning to that which is presented only create more doctrines and traditions of men, lies with which to deceive others, against God's commandment.

Kobojunkie,i didnt come up with much scripture because ive seen lot of post about grace and its not something unfamiliar.but did you close your eyes on zachariah20vs12.
we were give the spirit of grace and supplication.if you really know the bible,you wouldnt need to argue this.when we say grace it means what we didnt merit it,your salvation is a gift,its not by our work that any body should boast.it cost God nothing to look away as we perish.if youve been filled with the holyghost that one too you will know you didnt merit it.no matter how you try to be righteous b4 then.God is using us to reach people you think we merit it.healing annoiting is activated in someone you think its merit.the grace that call you to repentance is also the grace that made you filled with the holyghost and his fruits is manifested.not by power not by maight but the spirit that quickeneth us..you said grace is about eternal life, yea salvation is about eternal life,and its start from repentance.let stop complicating simple stf

Propheticdavid:
Kobojunkie,i didnt come up with much scripture because ive seen lot of post about grace and its not something unfamiliar.but did you close your eyes on zachariah20vs12.
we were give the spirit of grace and supplication.if you really know the bible,you wouldnt need to argue this.when we say grace it means what we didnt merit it,your salvation is a gift,its not by our work that any body should boast.it cost God nothing to look away as we perish.if youve been filled with the holyghost that one too you will know you didnt merit it.no matter how you try to be righteous b4 then.God is using us to reach people you think we merit it.healing annoiting is activated in someone you think its merit.the grace that call you to repentance is also the grace that made you filled with the holyghost and his fruits is manifested.not by power not by maight but the spirit that quickeneth us..you said grace is about eternal life, yea salvation is about eternal life,and its start from repentance.let stop complicating simple stf

1. I can't seem to find a Zachariah 20 vs 12.

2. Grace, the popular definition, is wrong when compared to grace of God as spoken of in scripture which refers to the eternal life we receive from God, grace from the judgement of Death for those of us gentiles.

3. What God offers us in Jesus Christ is a contract, the New Covenant agreemnt between God and man, so the question of whether we "merit" a thing of not is meaningless where God and Jesus Christ is concerned. What this means is that definition of grace that speaks of the meaningless has nothing to do with God for it is of men trying to deceive and confuse themselves with where God is concerned.

Grace is not about eternal life. Grace is another word for eternal life which we r3cieve through Jesus Christ. And understand that grace has been in existence since the very beginning for it the same grace that is given to those men who proved themselves righteous by the old ways. None of them woke up one day, finding themselves righteous in the sight of God. Instead they proved themselves worthy of God's grace through their obedience of His commandments and statutes. In Ezekiel 18, God speaks extensively on the same grace where He declares that the man who does good works will live.

Jesus Christ is the Law of God as far as the Kingdom of God is concerned, His teachings are the very details of that Law. His grace which everyone who is saved and reborn receive is the eternal life promised to all those who will believe as part of the contract agreement. That same grace is then to be spent either in Hell or in Heaven depends on how a one approaches dealing with the terms and condition of the contract that is Jesus Christ.

By romanticizing the concept of grace, men have succeeded in creating for themselves doctrines and traditions, lies , they teach in the name of God, deceiving many into making an idol of that which God never intended them to. The grace of God is not meant to be worshipped or taught as replacement for the Gospel teachings of Jesus Christ as taught by Jesus Christ Himself.

i dont even bother to read it.you have argumentative syndrome..maybe you sturdy theology or not ..you need the holyghost..there is difference between gathering bible pasages and being saturated with the word of God.i rest my case

you replied goshen 360.that grace is full of eternal life,now you contradict yourselve,it is not about eternal life again and want to invent a your own meaning of grace.kai..grace is grace.faith without work is nothing also means grace with work is nothing. You cant omit one and leave the other. God bless you sir

sometimes we need agree to disagree...

The problem is most people are misinformed regarding the meaning of the word "GRACE"
So until a complete agreement on the meaning of that word there will always be misapplications!

Propheticdavid:
sometimes we need agree to disagree...

So you are trying to assume that the Truth of God has lies mixed into it? Jesus Christ in Mark 7, warned His followers against doctrines and commandments of men, teachings that are not the same as that which He taught to them.

What Jesus Christ taught is the Law in to His Kingdom - every deviation from that message is a lie that nullifies the power of God in both those who teach them and those who hear and do them.

Propheticdavid:
i dont even bother to read it.you have argumentative syndrome..maybe you sturdy theology or not ..you need the holyghost..there is difference between gathering bible pasages and being saturated with the word of God.i rest my case

Keep mentioning the Spirit of God as if by doing so you legitimize this lie of an idea of grace that is not according to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

When John the Baptist came with teaching the people repentance, what special "grace unto repentance" of sins did John offer the people except for the command that they repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand?

Why did the same John the Baptist rail against the Pharisees, demanding they change their hearts to show themselves worthy of repentance?

Matthew 3 vs 7 - 10(ERV)

---

7. Many Pharisees and Sadducees came to where John was baptizing people. When John saw them, he said, “You are all snakes! Who warned you to run from God’s judgment that is coming?
8. Change your hearts! And show by the way you live that you have changed.
9. I know what you are thinking. You want to say, ‘but Abraham is our father!’ That means nothing. I tell you, God could make children for Abraham from these rocks.
10. The ax is now ready to cut down the trees. Every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Why didn't John instead speak to them of this special grace unto repentance of sins you spoke of earlier?

John came preaching repentance to the people and he taught them of no such special grace available to help them repent from their wicked ways. He instead taught that they had to prove themselves worthy of repentance by changing their hearts and lives for to recieve repentance which they sought.

Propheticdavid:
you replied goshen 360.that grace is full of eternal life,now you contradict yourselve,it is not about eternal life again and want to invent a your own meaning of grace.kai..grace is grace.faith without work is nothing also means grace with work is nothing. You cant omit one and leave the other. God bless you sir

Contradict myself when what I posted to Goshen360 was that the grace which Jesus Christ was said to have been full of is Eternal life of God which Jesus Christ is.

Read what I wrote there please! In John 1, you are told that Jesus Christ came full of grace and Truth, where you not. The very same Jesus Christ went on to explaining to you that He is the Truth and the eternal Life (grace) of God, did He not?

The same Jesus Christ goes on to explain beginning in John 8, that in order to overcome bondage to sin, you are expected to adopt and submit to obedience of His commandments/teachings , declaring that those who refuse are of their father, the devil. He offered no special oomph juice of grace when He declared in John 14 that those who indeed love Him are those who submit to and obey His teachings/commandments, indicating that everyone ought to carry their cross and do exactly as He did.

In Isaiah, we learn that Jesus Christ had to suffer in order to learn submit and obey the commandments of God, and there in John 15, the very same Jesus Christ commands all His followers to do as He did by trusting and obeying the teachings/commandments He gave us, just as He also had to. So, what grace unto good works is there?

Kobojunkie:
So you are trying to assume that the Truth of God has lies mixed into it? Jesus Christ in Mark 7, warned His followers against doctrines and commandments of men, teachings that are not the same as that which He taught to them.

What Jesus Christ taught is the Law in to His Kingdom - every deviation from that message is a lie that nullifies the power of God in both those who teach them and those who hear and do them.

agreeing to disagree later means assuming you wrong,so you can find out the truth or stumble on the truth later..sooner or later you will.you have no power to validate what i write ,cus i write not of my own accord. you know lying is not good,are you filled with the holyspirit,have you encountered God as of the day of pentecost.no lie o.are you?.

Propheticdavid:
agreeing to disagree later means assuming you wrong,so you can find out the truth or stumble on the truth later..sooner or later you will.you have no power to validate what i write ,cus i write not of my own accord. you know lying is not good,are you filled with the holyspirit,have you encountered God as of the day of pentecost.no lie o.are you?.

If you know the truth so much, why aren't you still unable to directly counter any of what I have said or asked you on this issue still?

I mean in have posted at least 5 questions that you could have chosen to response to but instead you go on and on about how you know better because you believe the Spirit of God is in you and not me. Is He really meant to be used in such a way?

Jesus Christ, even God never said that His Spirit would provide us a special interpretation of any kind of His truth... instead Jesus Christ urged us all to use the understanding we have where His Truth is concerned. More understanding will be given to those who use what they have. As for those who do not, the little they have will be taken away from them. No mention of Spirit of God providing a private interpretation of any kind .

If I am able to read and clearly comprehend the Truth of Jesus Christ, the Word of God Himself, as it is written, why do you declare that your own brand of truth will become indecipherable for me eventually? Are you sure the power you speak of is in accord with the Truth of Jesus Christ?

one of the problem this guy kobojunkie has is dat,it is one thing not to agree to something..its another thing to condem the message and the bearer because you dont agree with them..,it shows your obedience is not full..the funny thing is that years later they will realise they are wrong.after calling the spirit of truth liar.

Propheticdavid:
one of the problem this guy kobojunkie has is dat,it is one thing not to agree to something..its another thing to condem the message and the bearer because you dont agree with them..,it shows your obedience is not full..the funny thing is that years later they will realise they are wrong.after calling the spirit of truth liar.

This has nothing to do with me wanting you to agree with me.

I have asked you several questions about your claimed truths so far, and instead you ignore them , yet continuing to proclaim that you have a superior grasp of the Truth of God.

My obedience is not full? Obedience to whom? There you go again with the ridiculous claims.

Calling the Spirit of Truth a liar? why not reveal that the Spirit inside of you is indeed the Spirit of Truth by responding to the questions posed you?

[quote author=Kobojunkie post=101448767] If you know the truth so much, why aren't you still unable to directly counter any of what I have said or asked you on this issue still?

I mean in have posted at least 5 questions that you could have chosen to response to but instead you go on and on about how you know better

Jesus Christ, even God never said that His Spirit would provide us a special interpretation of any kind of His truth... instead Jesus Christ urged us all to use the understanding we have where His Truth is concerned.

Thats the problem you interpret the bible in your understanding.i donot force my messg on,nor force you to commnt, those blessd,have been blessd by it. i didnt reply most of your argument because its devoid of understand.its one to know,its one to understand. its written that you should use your understanding to read your bible .wow. That explain it all..whereas in my bible its dat he that lack understand let him ask.

Propheticdavid:

Thats the problem you interpret the bible in your understanding.i donot force my messg on,nor force you to commnt, those blessd,have been blessd by it. i didnt reply most of your argument because its devoid of understand.its one to know,its one to understand. its written that you should use your understanding to read your bible .wow. That explain it all..whereas in my bible its dat he that lack understand let him ask.

I am afraid you lie when you accuse me of applying an interpretation of some kind to what is written there in plain human language in the bible.

The books of your Bible are written by humans in human language, to be read and comprehended by human minds through the application and use of basic human language comprehension skills. There is absolutely no special interpretation necessary and God never said He provides you with a Spirit to interpret His Word for you either.. that claim is a lie against God.

You didn't reply my argument because you judged it lacking in understanding even though it was directed at claims made by you? So you have understanding enough to make claims but you somehow don't have understanding enough to respond to questions regarding the claims you make with your supposed understanding?

Do you know what "understanding" really is? It is a pointer of sorts to a combination of knowledge and the wisdom to adequately apply that knowledge. So I am thinking that the word understanding is far from what you really have there since you can't seem to respond to any questions directed at the claims made by you. Please stop trying to teach that which you clearly do not have adequate understanding of as that is no different from working on behalf of the devil in this.

Bro, the bible is a spiritual book,there is a limit to what your carnal mind can decipher,its deeper than what you think.you may know that A is A,if you want to know the reason why its A, if you want deep understanding and revelations you need.the holyghost.if you have the holyghost and you are preaching and i hear things you say fire will arise in me...alot of things i know,i learn it from the holyghost he download it into my spirit and sometimes he speak into my earing early in morning somtimes evening.i pray b4 posting mssg and pray after.im in the spirit fire arising in me when i write...when i sturdy the bible and get stuck i ask the holyghost..what i say is true,im not here to elevate my self.never. I wish i can see face to face i dont really know how to argue online.the level that you are maybe the reason why you are not receptive to it later you will understand...pls i beg,seek to be filled with the holyghost.then undestandin,revelations.knowledge,power will be yours.you will thank me later.

Propheticdavid:
Bro, the bible is a spiritual book,there is a limit to what your carnal mind can decipher,its deeper than what you think.you may know that A is A,if you want to know the reason why its A, if you want deep understanding and revelations you need.the holyghost.if you have the holyghost and you are preaching and i hear things you say fire will arise in me...alot of things i know,i learn it from the holyghost he download it into my spirit and sometimes he speak into my earing early in morning somtimes evening.i pray b4 posting mssg and pray after.im in the spirit fire arising in me when i write...when i sturdy the bible and get stuck i ask the holyghost..what i say is true,im not here to elevate my self.never. I wish i can see face to face i dont really know how to argue online.the level that you are maybe the reason why you are not receptive to it later you will understand...pls i beg,seek to be filled with the holyghost.then undestandin,revelations.knowledge,power will be yours.you will thank me later.

1. Where in the Bible is this claim of it being a "spiritual book" to be found?

2. You claim there is a limit to what the carnal mind can understand yet Jesus Christ taught His disciples, all of them carnal minds, His Truth for a period of about 3 years and those same carnal minds He sent out to teach the same Truth He taught them to the world?

3. Where in a scripture can I find the claim you made about a deeper understanding only being revealed to those who have the Holy ghost?

4. Where in the scripture can I find, substantiated, this claim that you made about the teachings of the Holy Ghost causing fire to arise in those listening?

Kobojunkie:
1. Where in the Bible is this claim of it being a "spiritual book" to be found?

2. You claim there is a limit to what the carnal mind can understand yet Jesus Christ taught His disciples, all of them carnal minds, His Truth for a period of about 3 years and those same carnal minds He sent out to teach the same Truth He taught them to the world?

3. Where in a scripture can I find the claim you made about a deeper understanding only being revealed to those who have the Holy ghost?

4. Where in the scripture can I find, substantiated, this claim that you made about the teachings of the Holy Ghost causing fire to arise in those listening?

text me your watsapp number,you want me to teach like an unbeliever that never read bible b4...you are the bible passage type...i will send tell everything with all the bible passage infact you with get tired of...just let me know all the lies you said i lied.

be careful with that word lie,you just open your mouth and call me a liar..on things you dont understand.you dont need to be insultive in stating your claim..you are doing yourselve more bad than good by calling a liar. you are arrogant.infact continue...when you grow old without the holyspirit then you will know you wasted your life arguing instead of getting into the secret place..pursue the holyghost first.

Its not a must,to agree...if you dont agree then the message is not for you at the moment..stop disturbing my mention...you think the kingdom is about argument..the reason i continue answering you is that so as not to fool yourself that your correct by my silence.ive you seen demons and command them .ive you healed sick person b4,you are arguing,ive you patner with angels b4. What can you show for your faith except from your inverted bible sturdy.holygbost sef absent and youre eager to preach..im sorry to sound insultive.and its written that those sign will follow the believer.bro seek the face of God. goodnight

Propheticdavid:
text me your watsapp number,you want me to teach like an unbeliever that never read bible b4...you are the bible passage type...i will send tell everything with all the bible passage infact you with get tired of...just let me know all the lies you said i lied.

Kobojunkie:

Your answer is in my new post.

Propheticdavid:

Your answer is in my new post.

What answer?

sTORY.

Grace of God is Christ personified, not a curriculum and by extension everything that Christ had done for us in His finished works.

We can then explore the above and what we then see through scriptures are: everything God had done for us through Christ, this is what the Grace is God is.

Unfortunately I can't participate much in this discussion because of my busyness and also there're so much mixtures from left and right within the discussions which I cant mention everything in this post but ....

Look guys, a Christian that rightly divides the word of truth can not take a Christian doctrine from the old testament. Why, the church was founded on Christ and the Apostles teaching, Christ being the cornerstone.

I pray the Lord give us all deeper understanding and the eyes of our word understanding be opened to the revelation of God's word.

Goshen360:
Grace of God is Christ personified, not a curriculum and by extension everything that Christ had done for us in His finished works.

We can then explore the above and what we then see through scriptures are: everything God had done for us through Christ, this is what the Grace is God is.

Unfortunately I can't participate much in this discussion because of my busyness and also there're so much mixtures from left and right within the discussions which I cant mention everything in this post but ....

Look guys, [s]a Christian that rightly divides the word of truth can not take a Christian doctrine from the old testament.[/s] Why, the church was founded on Christ and the Apostles teaching, Christ being the cornerstone.

I pray the Lord give us all deeper understanding and the eyes of our word understanding be opened to the revelation of God's word.

Look my guy, fyi, the genesis and actions or steps taken in order to achieve all that made the church be founded on Christ and the Apostles teaching, Christ being the cornerstone developed from a series of Old Testament backdrops, so its biblically incorrect, to say, a Christian doctrine can't be taken from the Old Testament.

It took God, a long-suffering 4000 years, for the first gospel (i.e. the protoevangelium in Genesis 3:15) that the church is basking in glory of,to be fulfilled in the NT. Jesus Christ, in John 8:56 made mention that Old Testament Abraham, saying: 'Abraham [greatly] rejoiced to see My day (My incarnation). He saw it and was delighted.”' and in Matthew 13:17, about Old Testament prophets and righteous men said: 'many prophets and righteous men [who were honorable and in right standing with God] longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it' so how you mean then that a Christian that rightly divides the word of truth can not take a Christian doctrine from the old testament. Of course, you can, so far they complement each other, especially as shared above, when the Old Testament laid the foundation for the teachings and events found in the New Testament.

The Old Testament, is the New Testament concealed, and The New Testament, is the Old Testament revealed. Two peas in a pod, twingenuity or twinning

BassReeves:
Look my guy, fyi, the genesis and actions or steps taken in order to achieve all that made the church be founded on Christ and the Apostles teaching, Christ being the cornerstone developed from a series of Old Testament backdrops, so its biblically incorrect, to say, a Christian doctrine can't be taken from the Old Testament.

It took God, a long-suffering 4000 years, for the first gospel (i.e. the protoevangelium in Genesis 3:15) that the church is basking in glory of,to be fulfilled in the NT. Jesus Christ, in John 8:56 made mention that Old Testament Abraham, saying: 'Abraham [greatly] rejoiced to see My day (My incarnation). He saw it and was delighted.”' and in Matthew 13:17, about Old Testament prophets and righteous men said: 'many prophets and righteous men [who were honorable and in right standing with God] longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it' so how you mean then that a Christian that rightly divides the word of truth can not take a Christian doctrine from the old testament. Of course, you can, so far they complement each other, especially as shared above, when the Old Testament laid the foundation for the teachings and events found in the New Testament.

The Old Testament, is the New Testament concealed, and The New Testament, is the Old Testament revealed. Two peas in a pod, twingenuity or twinning

If the old is the new revealed, and its NOW revealed what then are you going back to the old to pick? Did you forget anything in the old?