tyrant11:

look at this bleeping dirty cannibal talking. before the british came to Nigeria what were u what did u accomplish. bleep u and bleep your tribe. yorubas dont need you to survive . Igbos have also stolen a great deal from the national kitty . after all , ojo maduekwe , walter ofonagoro and co were all igbo. and stop worrying about the development in yoruba land . lagos is far more developed than your bleeping villages in the east. most of our development in south west goes to lagos. u worry about building your own land and stop worrying about what is in the south west.


pack your bags and go back east homeless naughty person.


and tell all your poor igbo folks to get out of the south west, they are the ones increasing the poverty rate.

Justcash:

^^^^^^^

Your explanation is a true reflection of the problem we are having in Nigeria. You are trying so hard to fake up the reality on ground.

You said Nigeria was categorised to reflect cultural differences,

Why are Igbos still in Rivers state and Delta state that are surpposed to be your so called "South South region?".

You seem to miss the fact that Lagos, Ogun etc has nothing to do with the South. They are all completely in the West.

Why should they be called South West.

On another hand, dividing Nigeria to reflect cultural differences indicates that Nigeria is a farce from day one. Why must regions be divided according to ethnic affiliation even when we claim to be one?

Well, your point of view is a complete deviation from the issue at hand. My point in this post is that Northerners and Westerners dominated Nigerian politics for many years, and have achieved nothing. They have brought about no progress. They have failed Nigeria. The little strides that Nigeria has made are the direct handwork of Easterners (As geographically categorized before the war). Easterners must be given more chance to lead and steer Nigeria to greatness, because they seem to have more capability to do so.

PhysicsMHD:


That's your opinion. I'm not interested in arguing for or against one man's spurious assertions. I won't engage you further because you seem highly irrational ("East-West"? "West-East"? "West-South"? easily some of the silliest stuff I've seen posted on this forum.)

Justcash:

And at the point you should answer to the main issue, you quit. Is it so difficult for you to accept that your fathers destroyed Nigeria? After fighting so much to retain the unity of Nigeria, they dominated and destroyed it. Is that not pathetic? Why couldn't they emulate their peers in fast  developing countries like China, Brazil, Malaysia etc? Can you clarify what is so spurious about my assertion to make you to dodge answering the question?

chino11:

Is lagos your home state of origin? Even though lagos is not liveable, its dirty and harzard all over the place. Lagos was built over 70yrs ago by the FG.

What has the SW done to develop other SW states, just like the SE states are doing? Dirty people wey dey poo inside bedroom. lmao

PhysicsMHD:


1. What are these "little strides that Nigeria has made" that are the "direct handiwork" of "Easterners"?

2. Even going by your silly geographical definitions, I would be neither a Westerner or a Northerner, so this crap about "your fathers" is just more irrationality on your part. Or did the powerless SS ever "dominate" or rule/govern Nigeria? 

chino11:



You guys are really despicable and pathetic. Why not osogbo, ibadn, akure and all those crap and rural state capitals in the south west?? Every time they will mention lagos, you guys should be ashamed yourselves. Is lagos your home state of origin? Even though lagos is not liveable, its dirty and harzard all over the place. Lagos was built over 70yrs ago by the FG. What has the SW done to develop other SW states, just like the SE states are doing? Dirty people wey dey poo inside bedroom. lmao

jason123:

@ Justcash
Okay, the next four years, Igbos will run things (hopefully), that is the opportunity to prove your what you are saying. . . .

Justcash:

It is not about Igbos. It is about EASTERNERS. There is one at the helm of affairs now (Goodluck Ebele Jonathan). Watch him closely, you will understand what I am talking about. After 4 years by God's special grace, I will bring your attention to this our discussion to vindicate my points.

Once again, you dodged my question.

As usual, I expected you to deny being from the West or North like you did.

Before I go ahead to answer your question, let me make it clear to you that I am not showing hatred towards those regions.

I am only stating the fact that they have failed so badly by not being able to stimulate meaningful development in Nigeria. They may not have been responsible for this if they had not dominated the political sphere of Nigeria. They cannot show any meaningful thing that they came out with after so many years of political dominance. My view can be seen as being "Realistic" and not "Tribalistic".
Now to your question. Before 1999, Nigeria could not boast of any other viable sector apart from the petroleum sector. NNPC monopolised the economy and was so important that it was heavily politicized and influenced by politicians who were mainly from the North and West.

It took the elevation of Nigerians from the hitherto marginalised Eastern part of Nigeria to spark up a surge from other sectors of the economy.
For example;
One would think that there was no CBN before Charles Soludo. Even after Charles Soludo, there was another intellectual from the North that took over, Lamido sanusi. Was he not in existence before 1999? Why did it have to take an Easterner to change the industry before intellectuals from the North could be recognised? Under an Easterner, the banking sector grew and added value to Nigeria's economy.

One would also think that we never had Finance ministers before Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala in 1999. Why did it have to take Ngozi Okonjo Iweala, an Easterner to revive the international rating and freedom of Nigeria's economy from enormous external and internal debt? Were there no former finance ministers with such capabilities?

One would think that Nigeria was allergic to GSM technology before 1999. Even Ghanaians got the technology before us. As soon as Alex Ndukwe was put in charge of the sector, everything changed. Like they say, the rest is history now. Nigeria's telecommunication sector grew and created lots of jobs. Was there no individual capable of doing what Alex Ndukwe did before 1999?Why is it that it took Alexander Ndukwe, an Easterner to raise the telecom sector?

Look at an agency like NAFDAC. It was dormant before an Easterner took control of it. Why was it dormant? You mean to tell me that there were no Nigerians to make the agency to work?

Why did it have to take an Easterner, GEJ for free and fair elections to be possible. I mean, he was even ready to step down if he had lost the election.

Why is it that it was the entertainment and Sports sectors that were dominated by Easterners before 1999 that grew vibrantly within the years that Nigeria was gradually sliding into an abyss due to retrogressive political leadership from the North and West? Now, Yoruba movies are building on Nollywood. Look at the way our sports slid because the same ethnic based issue cropped up under the leadership of the sports sector by Northerners. For example, Nigeria keeps failing because federal character was introduced in sports.

The issue here is that Northern and Western region's domination of Nigeria's politics was characterized by extreme ethnic politicking. So much that appointments were based on religion and politics. They ignored professionals and fairness in the appointment of individuals into sensitive positions.

This was the bane to the development of Nigeria. It took a near death experience by OBJ, under his northern cronies for him to realize that fairness was important for development to be ensured.

This tribalism is enshrined in the cultures of Western and Northern Nigerians. Their Centralized traditional political orientation gives space for the extreme respect of people in authority and tribalism against groups with contrary orientation. When leaders feel supreme in their seats of power, they become corrupt. That is the story of Nigeria. The ability of an Easterner to challenge authority annoys Nigerians from other parts of Nigeria.

Look at the Senate presidency in 1999. Several individuals occupied that seat. At the end, Ken Nnamani. a respectable politician got the chance to occupy that seat and stayed there till the end. The Easterners were taunted for this. That is to tell you that Easterners don't support rubbish leadership.

Compare that to the leadership of Bankole, where senators go home with a quater of Nigeria's budget. No one talked. The few Easterners that dared to talk were victimized, while other kept quiet.

It is only an Easterner that would look at things against his own ethnic group if need be, for the sake of progress. Why is that so?

If you sincerely feel I am wrong by saying that it is only Easterners that can save Nigeria, please prove me wrong by telling me how the North and West can do so. As for me, the North and West have widely proved that they are incapable of saving Nigeria.

seanet02:

Justcash time for you to shut the MF up. Seanet02 your MASTER is back.

PhysicsMHD:




You asserted with no evidence some claim (that this or that region dominated and destroyed Nigeria) and then asked me to respond to a question based on the premise as if it were true. If I don't accept a premise, then there's no reason to respond as if I actually do.



What reasonable accusation is there to deny? I've already stated that I'm not from those regions on this forum numerous times. It's only someone as ignorant and presumptuous as yourself that constantly harps "your fathers this" "your fathers that" when someone opposes his view, without even knowing anything about the person's "fathers" and where they are from. Anyways, it would make no real difference where I was from.



This is unlikely, though. Your post history is pretty clear on your feelings with respect to those regions.


When was the West politically dominant? When they were rigged out by Shagari in 1979? When Buhari imprisoned their leaders and placed some under house arrest while sparing northern leaders? When MKO Abiola was denied the presidency and died in prison and they sat on looking, unable to do anyhing? When Abacha was lording over them, imprisoning some of them, and declaring others (like Soyinka, or some members of NADECO) wanted men?


As for this claim that Northern and Western politicians ran the NNPC, do you have any proof?



Who was Dr. Clement Nyong Isong? Who was Paul Agbai Ogwuma?

Were they not from the East? Or were they from the Moon?

I don't understand this CBN claim. It's as if you actually think the North and West were deliberately keeping Easterners away from the CBN or something prior to Obasanjo.


Did Nigeria have enormous external and internal debt prior to 1999?

Did Ngozi Okonjo Iweala single-handedly free Nigeria from its debt? If she did, what did Mansur Mukhtar do? Please be more informed.



You're quite right that Ernest Ndukwe should be commended.

http://www.punchng.com/Articl.aspx?theartic=Art201005021442842

But reading that, I get the impression that the answer to your question lies mainly in Abacha and his corrupt military predecessors. OBJ, as a civilian president, was actually competent enough to try to get foreign investment in that area, and when that failed, to appoint the right technocrat to improve that area.


What major problems did NAFDAC have to deal with until recently? I'm asking out of genuine ignorance. I was under the impression that the problems NAFDAC dealt with recently (fake drugs, for example) were not always major issues.

Also, NAFDAC only came about in 1993, and even then, wasn't it Dr. Olikoye Ransome-Kuti that presided over its creation?


I don't even understand this claim. Was GEJ in charge of the elections? Could he somehow not have stepped down if he lost? Does he have that kind of power? 

And Attahiru Jega gets no credit, but Maurice Iwu gets no blame? 

Was the East really dominating entertainment?

Take music, for example. I was under the impression that there was more of a spread, with West, East and others contributing,

As for this Nollywood thing, I was under the impression that some Westerners were pioneers in that area, rather than "building on" somebody else's foundation. I could be wrong though.

I'm not sure that Nollywood is really a bragging point, anyways. When you think of the Senegalese film industry for example, which could even enter films for competition at prestigious film festivals and get rave reviews from respectable periodicals, you realize Nigerian movies are pretty mediocre, despite all the potential and all the promise Nigeria's never ending drama and its educated populace should provide in that area.

The federal character principle in sports, if it was really adhered to, like many believe (and from my observation, they may be right) is regrettable.


Is this really so? Do you have any real evidence of this?





And this is your personal theory? Or did OBJ say or hint at anything like this?


Another theory, but I don't see much of a connection between the cultures and the tribalism you keep complaining about. Also, challenging authority must be done in a civil manner.

What's also ironic about this claim is that the first Nigerian to condemn tribalism, back in the 1800s, was no less than Uthman dan Fodio.

Meanwhile Edward Wilmot Blyden, a scholar of Igbo descent, had mostly negative things to say about the "Akus" (Yorubas) and Samuel Ajayi Crowther, a scholar of Yoruba descent, had some negative things to say about the "Ibos" (Igbos). When I came across their statements, it kind of made me wonder why the Northerners seemed to always be more politically advanced than the southerners on issues of tribalism, to the extent that any Northerner can become the Northern leader, whether that man is an Angas, Gwari, Kanuri, etc.  



I really don't understand this. Could you go into more detail? Who was taunting and why? And I was under the impression that most of the senate presidents had always been "Easterners."


Could you also go into detail here? I'm really not understanding what you're saying.

I was under the impression that the man who really dared to talk about senators going home with ludicrous paychecks was Sanusi Lamido Sanusi.



You say this, but is it actually true? What evidence is there for this claim?


I don't really think I need to. There's no reason for me to resort to simplistic generalizations and assertions in order to defend Northern or Western competence, especially when I don't even care whether those groups really can or cannot "save Nigeria." If they are actually as incapable as you assert, it won't change anything.


[size=5pt][Note: I used the phrase "I was under the impression" a lot above, but what I mean to say by that is "it seems in reality that. . ."][/size]

PhysicsMHD:

[b]You couldn't answer even a single question [/b]I posed and you shamelessly resorted to twisting and distorting my questions. The evasion is dumbfounding. No sane person could think the West dominated politics after the civil war. Is that why they were being imprisoned and killed for nothing? Nobody could assert that NAFDAC needed to do anything significant until recent times. Heck, they didn't even need to create it until the 90s. Nobody could claim that  Easterners were kept out of the banking sector until OBJ. Nobody could claim that only Okonjo-Iweala was responsible for freeing Nigeria from its debt. I honestly don't see what's commendable about Nollywood. Perhaps you could enlighten me there. I already answered the statement about Ernest Ndukwe, but you completely twisted my statement. And for the last time your Eastern "fathers" have always had more of a role in running this country than my own, from 1956 to this very day, so your statements about my "fathers" are absurd. Your bizarre adoration for the grandmaster of political thuggery - OBJ, one of these Western "fathers" and the only Western politician to actually govern Nigeria - while simultaneously condemning Western politicians for allegedly screwing up the country is mind-bogglingly silly.

KnowAll:


Mr Poster when you write an article try not to make it bold. You can make your replies to correspondents bold but not your opening post, also try to put them in paragraphs. I can't read that peice as it is.

ekt_bear:

What do you mean by "at that point Nigeria started getting destroyed"?

Like, for example, here is a plot of Nigeria's GDP since 1960:


So from 1967-1980, the country sucked? I wasn't alive during that time, so wouldn't know.

Justcash:

I am not talking in terms of Gross domestic product.
Put in simple words, GDP measures the health of a country's economy. There was an oil boom within that period that you see an up trend. So it is natural that the economy will be seen as healthy. But, how did it help real development?
Economy was growing, things were getting worse for the masses. in the 60s life was better for the masses than when oil was discovered.
By "Nigeria was destroyed", I meant Per-capita income, Infrastructures, educational system, standard of living etc experienced a downtrend.

ekt_bear:

Like, if you want to say that, "the country started going bad due to military rule and coups", then shouldn't you include Ironsi?

And if you want to say, "the country started getting mismanaged at this point", then why is Ironsi your cutoff point? It seemed to do OK in the 70s. So then the cutoff should be probably 1980-81 or so.

I don't think "the West" can be blamed much for the 80s and 90s. Awolowo was rigged out for Shagari. We didn't execute the coups in the 80s and 90s.

Surely you'll concede that if West had been running the country rather than the North, probably the 80s and 90s would have been pretty decent. . .
Hold on a second here. Nigeria's GDP increased from 6.63 billion in 1969, to 47 billion in 1979. . . 7X increase. So you are telling me that the country was better off in the 60s than the 70s? 

Like I said, I wasn't alive during that time. But the way older folk tell me, the country started to spoil mostly in the 80s.

Justcash:

Aguiyi Ironsi managed the economy well. Mismanagement of the economy started with Gowon.

I expect you to know what GDP means. It does not necessarily reflect infrastructural growth, human development index, per capita income etc. An economy may be growing, but the growth is not reflected in development of the country. In the 1960s there were good schools, security, employment, efficient infrastructures, roads etc. These things were supposed to be updated with the growth in GDP. They were abandoned, and life became difficult for Nigerians irrespective of GDP growth.

ekt_bear:

What was the unemployment rate in the 60s versus that in the 70s? Poverty rates? Etc, etc?

If you want to argue that Nigeria was worse off in the 70s than in the 60s, then let us see those secondary statistics to justify your argument.

ekt_bear:

Also, why do the Shagari, Buhari, IBB, Abacha eras count as "the West" running things?

Wasn't Shagari a guy the Igbos supported in large #s? Ya'll sure as hell didn't vote for Awolowo. A guy who would have done a helluva better job navigating through the 80s than Shagari would have (Western Region again was the wealthiest in Nigeria before it was split into West and Midwest, or so I believe from what I've read on JSTOR.) So as far as pure leadership, administrative skills go, you guys choose the wrong leader.

So doesn't "the East" get the blame for that era?

ekt_bear:

^-- Right, so from what you post, the 70s were better than the 80s. But nothing there says they were worse than the 60s. . .