lexy2014:


I don't think that they are all replicas and when u say "recent times", when exactly?

Why does d FG and state govt need to "order" regarding artifacts that were returned in 2014? Where does "order" fit into this discussion? I don't follow

Pay a visit to Benin City today and you will see commercial sculptors carving replicas of Benin Court arts and selling them. In fact there is a district in Benin City dedicated to that business alone. From Benin, take a trip to National Museum in Onikan, Lagos State and there you will see a specially dedicated Benin Gallery where Benin historical court artwork replications carved by commercial sculptors are sold to visitors. So I don't know what you are still insinuating.
As per my use of 'order' check you comment to which I replied.

Nairaland kids still don't understand the phrase "edo no be other states" lol

Judolisco:
I Don hear u bros... I Don tell u my own.. D system of government we practice the oba is under d local government.. And the state governor can remove him... The highest people go protest arbi make dem use jazz on d governor or take the matter to court... He was not deposed by a governor.. It was during d colonial era, he was deposed by a superior power

It was a military invasion.
The governor will even slap you if you advise him to attempt that suicide. He knows the consequences.

lexy2014:


Have u seen for urself

Go see 4 ur sef

Deadlytruth:

Pay a visit to Benin City today and you will see commercial sculptors carving replicas of Benin Court arts and selling them. In fact there is a district in Benin City dedicated to that business alone. From Benin, take a trip to National Museum in Onikan, Lagos State and there you will see a specially dedicated Benin Gallery where Benin historical court artwork replications carved by commercial sculptors are sold to visitors. So I don't know what you are still insinuating.
As per my use of 'order' check you comment to which I replied.

I don't need to check my comment bbcos I didn't say anything that explicitly or implicitly implies d state or FG giving anyone orders. How u came up with "order", remains a mystery. If u can produce where u say u saw it my comment, I will be glad.

I dont need to go to Igun street for anything. On d streets of Paris are painters who paint as a hobby and commercial purposes. Doesn't mean that all d items in d french museum are replicas. If people are on d streets carving and sculpturing, how does that now automatically mean that all d items in Benin & Lagos are replicas?

The governor and the oba should find a way to work things out it will cost a lot to build a befitting place where those artifacts will be kept which I don't think the oba can afford.

Indispensable85:



Go see 4 ur sef

Have u seen for urself

lexy2014:


Have u seen for urself

Go see 4 ur sef

Mikecold:
The oba is perfectly right on this one

Obaseki is probably creating his own private museum to earn him revenue when he leaves office

And should indeed he leaves what then becomes of the artifacts left in the hands of private individuals who the next government may not be in terms with

We know how private firms in deals with government later turn out to be the governor private property after leaving office

It is right they go back to the only unmovable place that all binis can relate to

The oba has put in place the palace trust obaseki should use that

To think that's where they where even stolen from in the first place is not rocket science

Can the oba afford the cost of building a befitting place for those artifacts?

Indispensable85:


It was a military invasion.
The governor will even slap you if you advise him to attempt that suicide. He knows the consequences.

I'm not talking about d consequences here... I'm saying d governor can dethrone d oba...

[quote author=Unibener post=103559515]
Do You know that if You say this in Benin, the chances of you walking again is nearly 0%.

Now You Know ✌️seems u on weed

Yorubas and igbos just carry matter for head.
Whatever obaseki can do to rubbish cherished institution and respected individuals, they will support.
Obaseki is poison and 3 years of forbearance is needed by all those who wish Edo wellSo much disrespect from outsidets.

So Obaseki is a thief now, Naija politicians no dey disappoint.....

Walkee:
Oba of Benin is not even a real monarch in Edo. A Yoruba man masquerading as Edo trying to dictate what happens here

And which line did you think the Onojie of Uromi is descended from?!. You are not from Uromi, you are a slow yorubastard

obynzo:

That is not the point. I was only trying to let people know that the governor still has power to dethrone the Oba according to the laws

Sorry are you guys this slow?

And why is it that it is non Edo people that should tell Edo people how things work in Edo

Technically the governor has power to do it but it's just a lame power that can't be expressed

Power lies with the people, the people consider the oba divinely higher than the governor

The governor knows the revoult it risks so it can't go that direction since its own power as long as it's democratic lies in the same people

Should a governor become so big to want to suspend an oba it won't be effective because it is the people that hold him in esteem and would continue to provide their traditional rites to him of which the oba by any court of law is guaranteed his freedom of association

Should the oba be dethroned then who do you put because he must die for another to emerge unless you have to kill him and risk unrest

You suspend him yet you can't choose someone in his stead because the entire palace would not agree with you

How do you then elect a new oba either way the court would tell you if you followed the tradition set in place of the palace deciding, if no chiefs agreed with you then how did you elect new oba

You think it's not the same laws that recognize nigeria traditions whether through marriage registry of the family consent or the banks that recognize next of kings

UGBE634:
And which line did you think the Onojie of Uromi is descended from?!. You are not from Uromi, you are a slow yorubastard

They know nothing, me that is talking since I am uromi

I know how traditions work

this people again sha
who owns the stuff before and who did they want to now return them to now Edo people mumu too much o did they know the meaning of the name of obaseki's company that will build the museum?

lexy2014:


I don't need to check my comment bbcos I didn't say anything that explicitly or implicitly implies d state or FG giving anyone orders. How u came up with "order", remains a mystery. If u can produce where u say u saw it my comment, I will be glad.

I dont need to go to Igun street for anything. On d streets of Paris are painters who paint as a hobby and commercial purposes. Doesn't mean that all d items in d french museum are replicas. If people are on d streets carving and sculpturing, how does that now automatically mean that all d items in Benin & Lagos are replicas?

. Why hasn't he laid claim to those artifacts for d purpose of keeping them in d palace as "the rightful custodian"?
Above is the part of your response that made me throw it back to you that why hasn't the state or federal government ordered, with their 'powers and laws' that the ones returned directly to the palace in 2014 be sent to the museum which is owned by the FG and which you argue should be the rightful custodian.
Your analogy with the painters in the streets of Paris has no correlation to the issue here because there is no history of French monarchy specially known for court art painting.

Judolisco:
I'm not talking about d consequences here... I'm saying d governor can dethrone d oba...

For the umpteenth time, I tell you again that laws on traditional institutions are made by the states legislature and in Edo State there is no such law empowering the governor to dethrone the Oba of Benin.
The Igbinedion family started having issues with Oba Erediawa far before Lucky Igbinedion ever nursed the ambition to govern Edo State. In 1992 when Lucky first ever contested for governor, the Oba opposed him and he actually lost to Odigie Oyegun. However, Lucky would later become governor in 1999 on sympathy votes founded on sentiments of Edo people. As governor for eight years, the battle between the Igbinedion family and Oba Erediawa continued but Lucky could not detrone him because as governor of the state, Lucky simply had no such power granted him by any provision of Edo State laws on traditional institutions.

obaseki CAN NOT AND CAN NEVER dethrone the oba because even if oba dies today his first son will take his place and if dethrone today when he already had a son who will take his sit must be his son so people commenting here should stop displaying their foolishness pls

Deadlytruth:

For the umpteenth time, I tell you again that laws on traditional institutions are made by the states legislature and in Edo State there is no such law empowering the governor to dethrone the Oba of Benin.

obaseki CAN NOT AND CAN NEVER dethrone the oba because even if oba dies today his first son will take his place and if dethrone today when he already had a son who will take his sit must be his son so

Petie33:

obaseki CAN NOT AND CAN NEVER dethrone the oba because even if oba dies today his first son will take his place and if dethrone today when he already had a son who will take his sit must be his son so

There is even no law for Obaseki to invoke to dethrone the Oba of Benin. Edo State laws of chiefs are totally different from those of Osun, Kano, Rivers, etc where traditional rulers are appointed by the governor and can also be removed by them.

Deadlytruth:


. Why hasn't he laid claim to those artifacts for d purpose of keeping them in d palace as "the rightful custodian"?
Above is the part of your response that made me throw it back to you that why hasn't the state or federal government ordered, with their 'powers and laws' that the ones returned directly to the palace in 2014 be sent to the museum which is owned by the FG and which you argue should be the rightful custodian.
Your analogy with the painters in the streets of Paris has no correlation to the issue here because there is no history of French monarchy specially known for court art painting.

So what my quote u extracted got to do with d state/FG giving orders? What's d connection?

If my analogy about painters on d streets of Paris has no correlation, neither does ur analogy of people making replicas on Igun and in onikan have any correlation. Hence my question which u failed to answer:

"If people are on d streets carving and sculpturing, how does that now automatically mean that all d items in Benin & Lagos museums are replicas?"

Indispensable85:


Go see 4 ur sef

Have u seen it for urself

Deadlytruth:

For the umpteenth time, I tell you again that laws on traditional institutions are made by the states legislature and in Edo State there is no such law empowering the governor to dethrone the Oba of Benin.
The Igbinedion family started having issues with Oba Erediawa far before Lucky Igbinedion ever nursed the ambition to govern Edo State. In 1992 when Lucky first ever contested for governor, the Oba opposed him and he actually lost to Odigie Oyegun. However, Lucky would later become governor in 1999 on sympathy votes founded on sentiments of Edo people. As governor for eight years, the battle between the Igbinedion family and Oba Erediawa continued but Lucky could not detrone him because as governor of the state, Lucky simply had no such power granted him by any provision of Edo State laws on traditional institutions.

I expect u guys to bring proofs of your constitution that states that a traditional king can't be removed... A sitting governor can dethrone anybody – they have the power. That is the way the system is set up. Nobody is above being dethroned. Governors formally appoint them, present them the staff of office and fund their offices.

Judolisco:
I expect u guys to bring proofs of your constitution that states that a traditional king can't be removed... A sitting governor can dethrone anybody – they have the power. That is the way the system is set up. Nobody is above being dethroned. Governors formally appoint them, present them the staff of office and fund their offices.

That only works in your state o where king is dethroned

If obaseki dethrones the oba as you even put it he has to make the oba first son king because no bini man would accept such offer

He can't make his first son king when his father is still alive that is a taboo that the son won't take (obas don't even see their first son's physically when they ascend the throne till they die)

Obaseki can't even get just one member of the palace cheifs to help him coronate the new king because it's a taboo

So how would the dethronement work

Judolisco:
I expect u guys to bring proofs of your constitution that states that a traditional king can't be removed... A sitting governor can dethrone anybody – they have the power. That is the way the system is set up. Nobody is above being dethroned. Governors formally appoint them, present them the staff of office and fund their offices.

Unfortunately, this is a faceless forum else I would have loved to take you to where they call Government Printers in Benin City for you to have a copy of Edo State Laws of Chiefs so you see it yourself that Oba of Benin stool is not under the state government.

DeFuturePresido:
The crux of the disagreement is this: Who should rightfully take custody of these artefacts? To answer the question, let us take two approaches:

1. Who was the original owner of these artefacts, and who, today, physically embodies that person?

2. Who has the greatest capacity to preserve these artefacts for the greater good of the largest number of people and for posterity? Is it
A. The Benin Royal Palace,
B. A privately managed Museum Trust,
C. The Edo State Government or
D. The Federal Government of Nigeria?

ANSWERS
1. The rightful original "owner" or custodian was Oba Ovonramwen Nogbaisi, who was deposed during the British "punitive expedition" of 9 - 17 Feb 1897, which was led by Rear-Admiral Harry Rawson, and which led to sacking of the Benin empire.

The person that, today, physically embodies Oba Ovonramwen is (unequivocally) the current ruler of Benin Kingdom, Oba Eheneden Erediauwa Ewuare II.

2. The answer to who can best manage the artifacts, unfortunately, is not straight forward. Technically, it should be the Federal or State government. However, you only need to pay a visit to Federal and State museums, libraries, or monuments across the country to understand that good management and maintenance is not a strong point of government in these parts.

That leaves us with The Royal Palace or The Private Trust.

My inclination is to suggest a merger of the two options:

A. The museum/cultural district should be built in the location chosen by the Oba of Benin.
B. The museum/cultural district should be managed by the Private Trust.
C. Oba Ewuare II should be made the Chairman of the Trust.
D. The CEO of the Trust should be a thoroughly seasoned professional and should be chosen via a merit-based selection process.
E. Members of the Trust Board should be drawn equally from nominees provided by the Benin Palace, the State Government, the Trust's Directors and the Federal Government.
F. All decisions should be made via simple majority votes.

I believe that this option will resolve the issue and provide the best solution.

This is what they call "the way forward ".
I respect your thought process.

Judolisco:
haha wetin u dey talk was an oba not banished to calabar and all his chiefs hanged in d past?... The Oba can be removed... Kneeling is not a sign of respect or superiority... Ganduje bowed to Lamido and still removed him... I have pictures of fayemi prostrating before alafin of oyo state... The Oba controls traditional powers only ... And can be removed and replaced.. No be matter to dey argue about if u enter edo call any elderly person ask am... Why is d oba appealing to d federal government if he controls so much powers?

lol your mumu don do our oba CAN NOT BE REMOVED even if he die without a son the next most senior son to the previous oba takes the throne (Benin throne has never be in confusion from time memorials as beforehand it was the most elderly man who ruled Benin kindom) �������

UGBE634:
And which line did you think the Onojie of Uromi is descended from?!. You are not from Uromi, you are a slow yorubastard

who is this fool?
We descended from the ogiso dynasty. Who is oba of Benin, a small boy from ile-ife to found our Kingdom?
Uromi - uzea already existed way before oromiynan set out to conquer uselu.
Uzea is our elder brother and the king of uzea was killed the Yoruba oba of Benin, Ozolua who consequently died in Uromi at the hands Agba n'ojie. The shrine of Agba is next to my family house.
You are very stupid for assuming I'm a Yoruba.

Eriggs:



For you to be reporting people that says they will continue to expose thieves, looters and criminals only tell members here one thing about you.
I now know the kind of person you are and what you do for a living. It is a matter of time.

And who da fvck are you again?

Petie33:

lol your mumu don do our oba CAN NOT BE REMOVED even if he die without a son the next most senior son to the previous oba takes the throne (Benin throne has never be in confusion from time memorials as beforehand it was the most elderly man who ruled Benin kindom) �������

do you know why the colonial masters hanged edo chiefs at the market square and banished the King and not kill him?