KnownUnknown:
Lol. I’ll take it that you are incapable of simple honesty. Not surprising. You already proved the point though.

Look who is talking!

You have tried at every turn to force even this discusson to conform to your way and view and you think you are the capable one here? I laugh in pepper soup!

Kobojunkie:
Since the book does not make sense and does not fit reality as you know it why then do you insist that it must have answers to questions born of a mind that has no understanding of it?

You may think it silly to accept what is written is as is written but I am not you so I don't share your view or your world in this.

The man claimed no one accepts what the Bible, as is written, says. But there exists those of us who accept that is written as it is written. So, he is wrong. It is as simple as that. Whether it makes sense to you or not is your cup of tea.

Kobojunkie:
Bullsheet! You are the one who doesn't accept what it says.

The book was written to you as is. It is not meant to make exact sense to you but it is as is written. You can't seem to accept that, yet you think you are able to prove that those who do don't?

It is not meant to make exact sense!!! so, the Bible doesn’t mean what it says but it says what you mean?

Kobojunkie:
Look who is talking!

You have tried at every turn to force even this discusson to conform to your way and view and you think you are the capable one here? I laugh in pepper soup!

And I laugh in Ogbono.

Again ..

KnownUnknown:

The book wasn’t written to me but that’s not the reason it doesn’t make sense. It becomes senseless when you try to make it fit reality.

Look at your silliness proving his point again.
“ The book was written to you as is. It is not meant to make exact sense to you but it is as is written. ”

It is not meant to make exact sense to you give it the exact sense you want.

It wasn’t meant to make exact sense!!! so the Bible doesn’t mean what it says but it says what you mean?

How can that which you believe to be senseless when you try to make it fit into your reality then be expected to make exact sense to you?

It never will make sense to you. So, you leave it to others who are able to make sense of It that is, even if it involves simply accepting it as-is..

Anyways...

Kobojunkie:
Again .. How can that which you believe to be senseless when you try to make it fit into your reality then be expected to make exact sense to you?

It never will make sense to you. So, you leave it to others who are able to make sense of It that is, even if it involves simply accepting it as-is..

Anyways...

I don’t try to make it fit anywhere. I just pointed out that It becomes senseless when it’s adherents try to make it fit reality.

Anyways……

Kobojunkie:

The book was written to you as is. It is not meant to make exact sense to you but it is as is written

…..It means what he says.

KnownUnknown:

I don’t try to make it fit anywhere. I just pointed out that It becomes senseless when it’s adherents try to make it fit reality.

Anyways……
…..It means what he says.

It becomes senseless when you try to make it fit the narrative you are used to, your reality and this you said yourself.

KnownUnknown:

The book wasn’t written to me but that’s not the reason it doesn’t make sense. It becomes senseless when you try to make it fit reality.

The so-called adherents aren't the ones complaining that it is senseless... you are.

budaatum:


Gods do die.

List of thousands of dead gods

List of thousands of dead gods continued

Where are the reports of their deaths?
Where are their remains?

Don't misconstrue loss of relevance/power or influence with death!

The gods are either demons or fallen angels. These don't die.
It's the adherents/followers of these god's who die out and go extinct!

KnownUnknown:


I don’t try to make it fit anywhere. I just pointed out that It becomes senseless when it’s adherents try to make it fit reality.

Anyways……

…..It means what he says.

Matt 5:20
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

Some of you insist that Jesus exactly mean the literal interpretation of the above text forgetting that the bible reflect the culture of speech of the writers.

For this reason, you claim the bible text is not comprehensible.

shadeyinka:

Matt 5:20
And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

Some of you insist that Jesus exactly mean the literal interpretation of the above text forgetting that the bible reflect the culture of speech of the writers.

For this reason, you claim the bible text is not comprehensible.

The same Jesus Christ also told you that it is nothing external that causes you to sin but what you have stored up in your heart that does.

He indeed meant what He said about plucking out your eyes to cutting off your limbs to avoid sin if necessary, this after revealing to you that sin is not what you do with your members, nor is it caused by them, but by that which is stored in your heart.

So in Matthew 5 vs 19, in the same context as the verse you pointed out, Jesus Christ declared that sexual sin is not committed when you engage your members(eyes, hands, legs, penis etc) but when you resolve to commit the sin in your heart. That is the point when you commit sin and hence are declared guilty of it by God. Chopping up your limbs or plucking out your eyes after that will not change this.

The Bible:

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. Genesis 3:22-23

God warned Adam not to eat from the three bearing the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. This tree connotes the right to set standards for all the intelligent creature on earth (mankind) whoever is going to set such standards must fully understands the making of man and the ability of man in terms of intellect. So no human not even mighty spirit creatures can discern this that's why God warned Adam to leave that aspect for Him and Him alone.
Adam must have been eyeing that fruit from the bottom of his heart but out of fear he never attempt touching it. Moreover it was only Adam that God gave the warning Eve wasn't present there. So when Satan decided to RULE over mankind he realized that Adam might prove stubborn but Eve who is just the newcomer will be easier to convince.
So Adam deliberately chose to rebel {1Timothy 2:14} against his Creator and Father! Luke 3:38

If Adam should continue in the presence of God the breath of life given to him can't expire {Genesis 2:7} Jesus confirmed that when he said:
"Man must live, not on bread alone, but on every word that comes from Jehovah’s mouth"

As long as God continue to speak with Adam (His dear son) Adam will never expire, that's why God commaded the angels to drive Adam out of His presence. That's what led to the gradual deteriorating process until he grew old got sick and expired (died) Genesis 5:5

Jesus confirmed this when he compared himself to the bread of life {John 6:48} as long as we continue taking in the counsel from this Wonderful Counselor {Isaiah 9:6} God will order His angels to write our names in the book of life! Malachi 3:16

We ought not to die again but since we are imperfect descendants of Adam we've inherited death through him {Romans 5:12} but if you believe in Jesus' teachings do not be afraid of death because your names has been written already just try and endure to the finishing line {Matthew 24:13} God's Kingdom will soon be here, whoever beleive in Christ Jesus by that time will never taste death at all {John 11:25-26 but those who have died in Christ will be remembered our Master Lord and King Christ Jesus will call all of them by name just as he did with Lazarus and they will surely hear his voice and come out! John 5:28-29

God bless you and may you have PEACE!

Kobojunkie:
The same Jesus Christ also told you that it is nothing external that causes you to sin but what you have stored up in your heart that does.

He indeed meant what He said about plucking out your eyes to cutting off your limbs to avoid sin if necessary, this after revealing to you that sin is not what you do with your members, nor is it caused by them, but by that which is stored in your heart.

So in Matthew 5 vs 19, in the same context as the verse you pointed out, Jesus Christ declared that sexual sin is not committed when you engage your members(eyes, hands, legs, penis etc) but when you resolve to commit the sin in your heart. That is the point when you commit sin and hence are declared guilty of it by God. Chopping up your limbs or plucking out your eyes after that will not change this.

Matt 5:20 simply was saying: do everything to rid yourself of things that you make you face God's judgement.
And as you have rightly said, the untamed heart is the key of the things to be gotten rid of.

shadeyinka:

Matt 5:20 simply was saying: do everything to rid yourself of things that you make you face God's judgement.
And as you have rightly said, the untamed heart is the key of the things to be gotten rid of.

The only thing that can condemn you where God is sin and sin is caused , not by things and your members, but by the lies you store up in your heart.

Ridding yourself of things will not rid you of your sins. Even a blind, deaf, dumb, lame man who happens to believe in Jesus Christ is not automagically without sin. .

Kobojunkie:
The only thing that can condemn you where God is sin and sin is caused , not by things and your members, but by the lies you store up in your heart.

Ridding yourself of things will not rid you of your sins. Even a blind, deaf, dumb, lame man who happens to believe in Jesus Christ is not automagically without sin. .

We are saying the same thing.
A sick heart is what causes members of the body to partake in sin

shadeyinka:

We are saying the same thing.
A sick heart is what causes members of the body to partake in sin

We are not saying the same thing.

Your idea of sin includes and involves things and external body parts. Jesus Christ is saying that is not the case. He insists that sexual sin, which is also disobedience of God's commandment, is that decision you make in your heart to disobey God, not the sexual act or the admiring of naked pictures and the whole lot you folks like to teach others is sin.

Jesus Christ says that sin is caused by what is stored in the heart and is committed the moment one chooses in his heart to disobey God's command. This is completely different from what you believe and said.

Kobojunkie:
We are not saying the same thing.

Your idea of sin includes and involves things and external body parts. Jesus Christ is saying that is not the case. He insists that sexual sin, which is also disobedience of God's commandment, is that decision you make in your heart to disobey God, not the sexual act or the admiring of naked pictures and the whole lot you folks like to teach others is sin.

Jesus Christ says that sin is caused by what is stored in the heart and is committed the moment one chooses in his heart to disobey God's command. This is completely different from what you believe and said.

You are just simply bent on a fight. Must it always be like that?
Mat 5:28:
"But I say to you, That whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart."

Mat 12:35:
"A good man out of the good treasure of the heart brings forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things."

Mat 15:18-19:
"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:"

shadeyinka:

....
A sick heart is what causes members of the body to partake in sin

Okay, we are not saying the same thing. The above is what I've said with no apologies!

shadeyinka:

You are bent on a fight. Must it always be like that?
Mat 5:28:
"But I say to you, That whoever looks on a woman to lust after her has committed adultery with her already in his heart."

Mat 12:35:
"A good man out of the good treasure of the heart brings forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things."

Mat 15:18-19:
"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:"
Okay, we are not saying the same thing. The above is what I've said with no apologies!

Again, what Jesus Christ is saying even in those 3 verses you quoted is that sin happens in the heart - the members you refer to not even involved nor do they partake at all in sin since, again, sin is committed in the heart and not by your members.

---

A short story about Mr A.

---

Mr. A was a believer in Jesus Christ and he attended church service, regularly for over 10 years, at the cities largest megachurch , which sits about 20 minutes from his home. His pastor was a close friend of the family and taught doctrines and traditions that included a belief in living according to the Old Covenant Law of Moses's 10 commandments found written of in Exodus 20 vs 1 -17, along with and what is known as the two greatest commandments.

Being a firm believer in His pastor and his churches doctrines, Mr. A strived to live his life, in all ways,in accordance to principles, which he had memorized. He taught them to his kids and his grandchildren, believing in his heart that he was guided by Spirit of God and was indeed a son of God.

For over 6 months, Mr. A had been having battling lustful thoughts of his neighbors wife, Mrs. B,. He tried every possible way to shake off the thoughts but they remained. He talked to his pastor who warned him that the devil was attacking him for being a devoted believer. The pastor advised Mr. A to fast and pray for a week, and ensure to stay away from any direct interaction with the Mrs.B in question.

Mr. A did as his pastor had advised but the lustful feelings lingered. Mr. A then took to consoling himself by believing that so long as he had not given in, and have sexual intercourse with the Mrs.B , he remained in the free and clear with God.

One fateful Sunday morning, on his way to service at his megachurch, Mr. A died in a car accident.

Fast forward to judgement day, and Mr. A is informed that one of a long list of sins he was condemned for was adultery , the very same sin he had battled the 6 months prior to his death against. Puzzled, Mr.A sought answers to defend Himself proclaiming that he never slept with his neighbors wife.

---

Can you please tell us why Mr. A, whose members never had sex with his neighbors wife, was condemned as an adulterer to born in hell?

Kobojunkie:
Again, what Jesus Christ is saying even in those 3 verses you quoted is that sin happens in the heart - the members you refer to not even involved nor do they partake at all in sin since, again, sin is committed in the heart and not by your members.

---

A short story about Mr A.

---

Mr. A was a believer in Jesus Christ and he attended church service, regularly for over 10 years, at the cities largest megachurch , which sits about 20 minutes from his home. His pastor was a close friend of the family and taught doctrines and traditions that included a belief in living according to the Old Covenant Law of Moses's 10 commandments found written of in Exodus 20 vs 1 -17, along with and what is known as the two greatest commandments.

Being a firm believer in His pastor and his churches doctrines, Mr. A strived to live his life, in all ways,in accordance to principles, which he had memorized. He taught them to his kids and his grandchildren, believing in his heart that he was guided by Spirit of God and was indeed a son of God.

For over 6 months, Mr. A had been having battling lustful thoughts of his neighbors wife, Mrs. B,. He tried every possible way to shake off the thoughts but they remained. He talked to his pastor who warned him that the devil was attacking him for being a devoted believer. The pastor advised Mr. A to fast and pray for a week, and ensure to stay away from any direct interaction with the Mrs.B in question.

Mr. A did as his pastor had advised but the lustful feelings lingered. Mr. A then took to consoling himself by believing that so long as he had not given in, and have sexual intercourse with the Mrs.B , he remained in the free and clear with God.

One fateful Sunday morning, on his way to service at his megachurch, Mr. A died in a car accident.

Fast forward to judgement day, and Mr. A is informed that one of a long list of sins he was condemned for was adultery , the very same sin he had battled the 6 months prior to his death against. Puzzled, Mr.A sought answers to defend Himself proclaiming that he never slept with his neighbors wife.

---

Can you please tell us why Mr. A, whose members never had sex with his neighbors wife, was condemned as an adulterer to born in hell?

Your problem is that you've assumed my interpretation of Christ words are different from what He has said in the scriptures and that is pitiful.

Beware of nepotistic generalisation.

shadeyinka:

Your problem is that you've assumed my interpretation of Christ words are different from what He has said in the scriptures and that is pitiful.

Beware of nepotistic generalisation.

I didn't assume anything of you as I have your own words to work with.

shadeyinka:

We are saying the same thing.
A sick heart is what causes members of the body to partake in sin

Are those not your words?

Kobojunkie:
I didn't assume anything of you as I have your own words to work with. Are those not your words?

Slow down and read that quote again.

shadeyinka:

A sick heart is what causes members of the body to partake in sin

Matt 5:20
And if your right hand causes you to sin , cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

Match the colours as you insist that they are different.

shadeyinka:

Slow down and read that quote again.
Matt 5:20
And if your right hand causes you to sin , cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

Match the colours as you insist that they are different.

Are we trying to go around in circles now?

Let me bite! What member of the body does one need to cut of in order to prevent the sin of Adultery as described by Jesus Christ in Matthew 5 vs 19?

Kobojunkie:
Are we trying to go around in circles now?

Let me bite! What member of the body does one need to cut of in order to prevent the sin of Adultery as described by Jesus Christ in Matthew 5 vs 19?

See a bigot will choose to misrepresent a person's view.
After all said, what you've heard me say is "cutting off of members of the body"! SMH!!

Kobojunkie:
Are we trying to go around in circles now?

Let me bite! What member of the body does one need to cut of in order to prevent the sin of Adultery as described by Jesus Christ in Matthew 5 vs 19?

See, a bigot will always choose to misrepresent a person's point of view.

After all said, what you've heard me say is "cutting off of members of the body to prevent sin"! SMH!!

What is a SICK HEART?

shadeyinka:

See a bigot will choose to misrepresent a person's view.
After all said, what you've heard me say is "cutting off of members of the body"! SMH!!

What?

shadeyinka:

See, a bigot will always choose to misrepresent a person's point of view.

After all said, what you've heard me say is "cutting off of members of the body to prevent sin"! SMH!!

What is a SICK HEART?

What the....

Kobojunkie:
What the....

Nothing!

shadeyinka:

Nothing!

I asked a simple question of you and I am a bigot for it?
Ofcourse that is a whole lot of something going on there with you or you would not have done that now.

KnownUnknown:
No, he isn't wrong. Budaatum and Shadeyinka are examples. You are an example, Max is an example, etc etc. Everyone is a parish of one.
You probably have your own interpretation of the Budaaatum/Shadeyinka's "thou shalt surely die" palaver!

I am raise my buda hand,
On killing the Gods I got spam bot!

Unknown know that buda has not begun to interpret, not really, though buda will soon, but let's first agree what we see with our own eye before we grab at the elephant.

And its simple. Too simple. You just confess with your own heart what you see with your eyes.

See! First. Then interpret. No?

KnownUnknown:
Who decides whether Adam and Eve is an allegory or real story?

You decide.

For yourself.

And who cares what anyone else decides?

Must we all decide the same?

Did we research equally?

And does it matter if Adam and Eve is an allegory or real story, or if they died on the day or did not?

Now that's interpretation territory.

Evolve us to that level. Amen

KnownUnknown:

If Adam and Eve were the first humans what happened to those created on day 6?

Genesis 1:
26Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

See. Interpretation territory.

Add some Relativity to the above.

Every human is a God unto themselves trying to rule over each other.

Darwinian, No? Like we Nairalanders!

Greek Gods, for those not aware of the survival of the ablest. Or Jacob being a pastoralist and Esau a nomadic hunter. Or better still Egyptian Gods. After all, we can all clearly read out of where it is written he called his Word. Twice.

Finger, we say in koan, is not the moon.

KnownUnknown:
What are you told about the first humans in the book of Genesis

KnownUnknown:
Budaatum, Shadeyinka, Max, yourself are all examples of the quote.

Are you suggesting you can ask buda that same question?

I dare you! Ask buda that same very question.

Let buda try to chop off the frustration of the anger that silenced spam bot!

budaatum:


I am raise my buda hand,
On killing the Gods I got spam bot!

Unknown know that buda has not begun to interpret, not really, though buda will soon, but let's first agree what we see with our own eye before we grab at the elephant.

And its simple. Too simple. You just confess with your own heart what you see with your eyes.

See! First. Then interpret. No?

Sorry for the overzealous spam bots.

Every country and organisation has a book of rules or constitution that guides them. If everyone can choose what to follow and what to reject from the constitution, we will arrive in a state of chaos. The primary voice of the constitution is to speak in bias of the Nation or Organisation just as the primary bias of the scriptures is to speak FOR the creator.

I can never be comfortable with a view that insinuate that "God is a liar" or "the scribes of the bible err" for that seems to be your position. Until you have a new bible, the narrative of " the authors err" is not plausible for NOTHING then can be trusted from such a book. How then can we be sure that the narratives about Christ, Redemption, Resurrection etc is true? Who determines what is true and what is wrong?

Your problem is your narrow definition of Death! And I have told you times without number that:
Death simply means DISCONNECTION or SEPARATION!

That is when terms like
1. Second Death
Rev 21:8:
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
2. Spiritual Death
Rom 8:6:
"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."

Rom 7:6:
"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."

shadeyinka:

who am I to doubt your claim!?

1 John 4:1
1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Do not believe at all but test every spirit! Including the spirit inside your very own eyes!

Is buda interpretation.

shadeyinka:

1 John 5:20
20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true— in His Son Jesus Christ. He is the TRUE God and eternal life.

Jesus Power is Superpower, Is what the Holy Spirit places before buda.

"Has given us the power and the ability to understand", as opposed to just "given us understanding that we must believe".