LordReed:


The way to do it would not be to give direct money payments but to create systems by which everyone gets to receive whatever they need like housing, food, clothing, transportation, etc. We have the technology to do this.

socialism? hmmm....a good solution if you ask me. communism can actually end world poverty, but the problem is it means living for the State and not self. We want to live for ourselves and not the State, hence Capitalism which allows us to fulfill our ambitions even if we have to take advantage of others. now we are in a dilemma, to be fully institutionalized in a Communist society or enjoy the liberties of Capitalism with the cost of wealth disparity.

shadeyinka:

No sir!
The fundamental sickness of man is selfishness!

We acquire more than what we need to look better, higher, bigger and ahead of our neighbours. As long as this trait exists, inequality will be the de facto state of humans!

Selfishness lead to Greediness and Evil

Have you ever seen anyone hoarding AIR (for breathing)?
It belongs to no one and cannot be controlled by anyone: thus with respect to air, we all live at peace. No one feel superior or inferior to others by the air he is breath's.
Who owns the greatest air or least air in the world?

Selfishness make a man to take care of only matters that concern him (his children, friends, family) while ignoring others.

That is why Jesus said the greatest commandment is LOVE!
Matt22:34-39
Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?" He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. ' This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Anything that can be hoarded is man's problem caused by his selfishness.
Anything that can be distributed or controlled by man will be his problem due to his selfishness

Love (as a command here on earth) is the temporary cure of selfishness
Resurrection after Death is a permanent cure for selfishness

bravo! very well put. though i think Common sense and Experience is enough to establish this facts you have laid out, not bible verses or quoting any authority. i dont subscribe to authorities

Seun:
If you define the poor as the least wealthy people in a society, you cannot end poverty. There's no practical definition of poverty that can be applied across space and time. Some people considered poor in one country would be rich if they made the same amount of money in another country. Some people considered poor in 2021 enjoy more pleasant and luxurious lives than people considered rich in 1821.

this is too simplistic Mr Seun. of course poverty takes the same shape and color regardless of time. poverty is never about money, it is all about resources.

HardMirror:
Please note this thread is not for everyone and you are not obligated to comment if you are not going to stay on topic.


I have thought about this several times and wondered why as supposedly intelligent animals, we are unable to get our act together and eradicate issues such as poverty.

so i came up with several factors i think are the problem.

so let us imagine we can all start afresh and give everyone the same amount of money around the world, would this solve the problem?
for one, money aint a real thing, money is just like a contract or should i say a receipt that is guaranteeing that product and services can be provided at the issuance of the receipt and that that receipt was earned by provision of product and services.
this means even if we all have the same amount of money, we would get separated based on products and services we can provide and exchange, hence we would soon fine the smarter people in society collecting the money in the hands of others and soon, we are back to the problem of having poor people.

in my opinion, poor people deserve to be poor, they cannot be helped and should not be pitied.

what is your take?

Interesting come-back.
Some of your fans recently quizzed your existence after your hiatus. Glad to have you back.

To the topic, you do have a point.
My major grouse however is your submission that the poor deserve to be poor. This sounds both harsh and not so well /thought out. How do I mean?
People are poor for various reasons;

1. Some are poor because of laziness. In which case you are right.

2. Some are poor because they were victimized for standing up for what is right. We know especially in Nigeria corruption leads most industries, so if you don't dance to their tunes you will either be frustrated out of the industry and become poor or be set up or even killed.

3. Some are poor because of the hand they have been dealt by life. Poor family background and probably some form of disability limiting their own personal growth.

4. We cant negate the place of fate. Some are diligent and smart but some how things just dont work out for them like others.

But in conclusion, it might be impossible to completely eradicate poverty, but obviously studying some developed countries, the poverty index can be reduced to the barest minimum.

HardMirror:
bravo! very well put. though i think Common sense and Experience is enough to establish this facts you have laid out, not bible verses or quoting any authority. i dont subscribe to authorities

1. This section of Nairaland is a RELIGION Section, so what else do you expect?
2. If I had quoted Platos or Socrates, Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein would you have objected?
I quoted (in my opinion) the greatest teacher on religious affairs so, what's the problem?
3. The fact that it was buttressed with Religious Facts doesnt not imply that common sense cannot buttress the same point except that
a. The concept of SELFISHNESS of man isn't a good scientific topic (it's better off in religion or philosophy department)
b. The concept of a Reboot (Resurrection) after death is not a good scientific topic

Everyone subscribes to Authorities else you'll be the least intelligent man in the universe.
Most things you have ever learnt has been gleaned from several authorities including Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Stephen Hawking, Christopher Hitchens and all your teachers right from your kindergarten school.

HardMirror:
That is not how respect works. everyone gets a chance at respect, you either build it or lose it.
as for family supporting the weak ones in the family, that is exactly why i pinned poverty on the poor giving birth to children they cannot take care of. if we all create a responsibility system, where people bring in children to this world that they can be responsible for and fully support to independence and these children also do the same, then we would live in a better society. if those who cannot be responsible are cut off from breeding, then we stem their irresponsibilty to them only and not to another generation.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Well everyone has right to live whether they're responsible from your own viewpoint or not!

HardMirror:

disobedient to who or what? all these things you describe perfectly fits the definition of christians, muslims and atheists alike,.. i mean humans,..duh!

Disobedient to Any Good Plan.!

HardMirror:

what load of nonsense! what is your god doing to make the world a better place? all efforts to make the world better has been made by humans and not an imaginary god

The Plan which you think was your plan was already initiated by God with more Goods but as I said, as long as those groups of people are among you, every good plan to remove people all from poverty, will fail.

HardMirror:
no. This is Philosophical, i just had to put it in a simple way for people to understand and think about.

There is nothing philosophical about making money.

It is either you are willing to do what you have to do to make it or not.

HardMirror:
if those who cannot be responsible are cut off from breeding, then we stem their irresponsibilty to them only and not to another generation.

Lol. If men were God or given power. See oga Hitler "cutting off" people for poverty ohh. You go fear person wey no fear atheism and Jwickedness na.

hahn:


There is nothing philosophical about making money.

It is either you are willing to do what you have to do to make it or not.

Oga prosperity preacher, money is not the only index of poverty.

I think we should just stop talking about "eliminating poverty" which is kind of ambiguous and start talking about the privileges we want all people to have. For example, we might want all kids to be educated. We might want to end malnutrition. We might want to provide universal healthcare or Internet access for all. These things are all achievable. But there will always be some people who have less than other people and they will be considered poor, even after giving them all the things above, so let's set the p-word aside and be more specific.

hahn:


There is nothing philosophical about making money.

It is either you are willing to do what you have to do to make it or not.

who is talking about making money here? i am talking about use thinking about imbalance in the society, perhaps it is greed, perhaps we examine human nature and how it translates to the state of our societies, perhaps... not bloody money or business.

Seun:

I think we should just stop talking about eliminating poverty which is kind of ambiguous and start talking about the privileges we want all people to have. For example, we might want all kids to be educated. We might want to end malnutrition. We might want to provide universal healthcare or Internet access for all. These things are all achievable. But there will always be some people who have less than other people and they will be considered poor, even after giving them all the things above, so let's set the p-word aside and be more specific.

socialism?

Dtruthspeaker:


Disobedient to Any Good Plan.!



The Plan which you think was your plan was already initiated by God with more Goods but as I said, as long as those groups of people are among you, every good plan to remove people all from poverty, will fail.

how can anyone be disobedient to a plan? like how can you be disobedient to a plan, either good or bad. ridiculous! so what plan are you obedient to (if it is possible to be obedient to a plan)

MaxInDHouse:


Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Well everyone has right to live whether they're responsible from your own viewpoint or not!

sure everyone has a right to life but everyone must be accountable for their actions. i think it is high time parent are held accountable for birthing children they have no means of caring for.

shadeyinka:

1. This section of Nairaland is a RELIGION Section, so what else do you expect?
2. If I had quoted Platos or Socrates, Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein would you have objected?
I quoted (in my opinion) the greatest teacher on religious affairs so, what's the problem?
3. The fact that it was buttressed with Religious Facts doesnt not imply that common sense cannot buttress the same point except that
a. The concept of SELFISHNESS of man isn't a good scientific topic (it's better off in religion or philosophy department)
b. The concept of a Reboot (Resurrection) after death is not a good scientific topic

Everyone subscribes to Authorities else you'll be the least intelligent man in the universe.
Most things you have ever learnt has been gleaned from several authorities including Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Stephen Hawking, Christopher Hitchens and all your teachers right from your kindergarten school.

hey! dont get me wrong, i am not opposed to you quoting you precious bible, i am saying i dont subscribe to it as an authority. i think all the valid points (which i agreed to by the way) can be arrived at even with common sense. please quote your bible as you please, i am not stopping you sir.

Myer:


Interesting come-back.
Some of your fans recently quizzed your existence after your hiatus. Glad to have you back.

To the topic, you do have a point.
My major grouse however is your submission that the poor deserve to be poor. This sounds both harsh and not so well /thought out. How do I mean?
People are poor for various reasons;

1. Some are poor because of laziness. In which case you are right.

2. Some are poor because they were victimized for standing up for what is right. We know especially in Nigeria corruption leads most industries, so if you don't dance to their tunes you will either be frustrated out of the industry and become poor or be set up or even killed.

3. Some are poor because of the hand they have been dealt by life. Poor family background and probably some form of disability limiting their own personal growth.

4. We cant negate the place of fate. Some are diligent and smart but some how things just dont work out for them like others.

But in conclusion, it might be impossible to completely eradicate poverty, but obviously studying some developed countries, the poverty index can be reduced to the barest minimum.

i agree it is hash.
i am not born into a rich family. when i look around my family, my community and i do with all sincerity, i realize we deserve to be poor and deserve no pity. poor people did not drop from heaven. the only poor people you can excuse are those in chains. as long as people are not bound in chains, they have no reason not to be able to earn a decent living. and if they cannot earn a living, i wonder why poor people give birth to children they know they would only put in same shitty situation as themselves... think about it a little bit more

He is quoting bible in support of poverty na

The poor you will always have among you... Sad but true.

HardMirror:
how can anyone be disobedient to a plan? like how can you be disobedient to a plan, either good or bad. ridiculous! so what plan are you obedient to (if it is possible to be obedient to a plan)

Are you not in this world? Have you not seen how several good plans have scattered? Eg the plans you had with your with your neighbours on how to overcome one bully or bad guy who always tormented you all? The one with your classmates and schoolmates to overcome Seniors oppression? Residents Association plan to tar a much needed road?

You have surely seen many good plans failing to see the light of day and it is based on one or all those reasons I raised up.

Seun:
I think we should just stop talking about "eliminating poverty" which is kind of ambiguous and start talking about the privileges we want all people to have. For example, we might want all kids to be educated. We might want to end malnutrition. We might want to provide universal healthcare or Internet access for all. These things are all achievable. But there will always be some people who have less than other people and they will be considered poor, even after giving them all the things above, so let's set the p-word aside and be more specific.

You're on track. Although like you mentioned on hierarchy, the sin/flesh nature will prey on hierarchy. Your education will not be my education, neither will your internet. You'll always look for a way and scheme to take advantage of others and put others down and out.

HardMirror:
hey! dont get me wrong, i am not opposed to you quoting you precious bible, i am saying i dont subscribe to it as an authority. i think all the valid points (which i agreed to by the way) can be arrived at even with common sense. please quote your bible as you please, i am not stopping you sir.

Selfishness is the sole reason why our greatest scientific advancements and achievements will not create an utopian society.

1. Why are human beings basically selfish?
2. Is there any solution to this problem?
3. Can selfishness be quantified?

HardMirror:
who is talking about making money here? i am talking about use thinking about imbalance in the society, perhaps it is greed, perhaps we examine human nature and how it translates to the state of our societies, perhaps... not bloody money or business.

The imbalance in the society is a practical thing not philosophical.

You already addressed the issue in your op.

Not everyone has the discipline to do what it takes to become successful. Not everyone even wants to be that successful because they feel it is "evil".

Give everyone 1m and in 3 months some people will have 10m and many will be broke.

It's just the way it is.

HardMirror:
socialism? hmmm....a good solution if you ask me. communism can actually end world poverty, but the problem is it means living for the State and not self. We want to live for ourselves and not the State, hence Capitalism which allows us to fulfill our ambitions even if we have to take advantage of others. now we are in a dilemma, to be fully institutionalized in a Communist society or enjoy the liberties of Capitalism with the cost of wealth disparity.

We can mix them, we already do except with this we swing more to the socialism side. The danger is if you get terrible people hijacking the government you a repeat of Soviet era Russia happens.

Karleb:
Your take is wrong.

People can be poor for a lot of factors.

Take for example, in the north, the elites and government encourages and grow poverty en mass via religion fanatism and ignorance.

An average poor northerner thinks education is haram and poverty is the will of Allah.

In Nigeria as a whole, the government is responsible for most of the poverty, so how then do you say the poor should not be pitied?

In the south, people are being owed salaries for months, some pensioners are yet to receive kobo after years of retirements.

The only set of people that should not be pitied are the lazy and poor.

You made sense...apart from the part were you claimed the average Northerner thinks education is haram

BeLookingIDIOT:

You made sense...apart from the part were you claimed the average Northerner thinks education is haram

average poor northerner

HardMirror:
sure everyone has a right to life but everyone must be accountable for their actions. i think it is high time parent are held accountable for birthing children they have no means of caring for.

Whenever i remember how you wasted your
time claiming pastor!
There are lots of sacred secrets that you should have learnt from the true Christians (Jehovah's Witnesses) by now you should have known what is happening to the system of things in which we're living right now!

No government is coming to monitor birth rate again rather the world's condition will continue to deteriorate until life becomes so unbearable for mankind to coexist on our own planet!

This is a worrisome problem I have actually spent many sleepless nights trying to figure out the best solution to.
I have come to realize that EXCESSIVE acquisition of wealth by some people is one of the main causes of poverty for other people.
Here is an analogy to explain the fact above:
A group of 100 people are given 100 naira to share (and it's assumed that 1 naira will be more than enough for the NEEDS of each person). Then about 20 of these people make away with 80 naira, leaving the remaining 80 people with just 20 naira to share among themselves. Of course, 20 naira will never be enough for 80 people, and 80 naira is clearly too much for 20 people.
For the world to be rid of poverty, we just need to take from those who have in excess and give to those who don't have enough. In other words, there has to be an effective way of preventing people from having too much.
A situation where a single individual is so rich that he can feed millions of people for years is unreasonable!

Hey Hardmirror,

This is a pretty good discussion, in basic economics, money should and must be a scarce resource. In a situation where by everyone is rich then we are in serious problem.

I'm just seeing your topic now, and currently, I'm a little bit busy.

I will concisely expand my submission tomorrow.

DarkLord69:
Hey Hardmirror,

This is a pretty good discussion, in basic economics, money should and must be a scarce resource. In a situation where by everyone is rich then we are in serious problem.

I'm just seeing your topic now, and currently, I'm a little bit busy.

I will concisely expand my submission tomorrow.

oh! great. you seem to have some thing to say. would be looking forward to your contribution

shadeyinka:

Selfishness is the sole reason why our greatest scientific advancements and achievements will not create an utopian society.

1. Why are human beings basically selfish?
2. Is there any solution to this problem?
3. Can selfishness be quantified?

sir, i bow to your wisdom. the problem is definitely selfishness. lets imagine a society where everyone is given equal share of all resources but they also have to put in equal amount of work based on the individual capabilities, soon enough some members of this society would start seeking ways of not contributing to the work that keeps the resources of the society, but they would still want the resources to be shared equal or even demand greater share. that is where everything crumbles.

HardMirror:
sir, i bow to your wisdom. the problem is definitely selfishness. lets imagine a society where everyone is given equal share of all resources but they also have to put in equal amount of work based on the individual capabilities, soon enough some members of this society would start seeking ways of not contributing to the work that keeps the resources of the society, but they would still want the resources to be shared equal or even demand greater share. that is where everything crumbles.

I agree perfectly with you. The situation is made worse because we also do not have the same potential. Conversly, even when we all each put in the same amount of work, some of us will have a higher efficency due to their differencial potential than others leading to these having more than others.

But then, youve not anwered these questions
1. Why are human beings basically selfish?
2. Is there any solution to this problem?
3. Can selfishness be quantified?