As a child,I used to always hear about the rapture, Christians getting excited whenever they discuss the topic,and as I matured I got to understand why they were excited. Then I began to hear about pre,mid and post tribulation rapture and because most pastors (at least 99% of them) supported the pre-tribulation rapture,I also believed in it. But when I began reading my own Bible,and not just relying on what pastors or teachers said I began see and realize that the whole doctrine of pre-tribulation rapture isn't scriptural AT ALL

Verses that seemingly support the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine:

1 Corinthians 15:50-52:
Their main argument here is in verse 52 which says "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
This talks about Christ descending with a shout,the voice of an archangel and with the trump of God,and the dead in Christ shall rise

1 Thessalonians 1:9-10
Their main argument is in verse 10 ..... Even Jesus which delivered us from the wrath to come
Revelation 3:10
Their main argument here is .. ...I will also keep thee from the hour of temptation which shall come upon the whole world to try them that dwell on the earth

I must confess these verses are very convincing

But I have to ask is the rapture and the second coming of Jesus Christ one and the same? Or are both distinct events ??...
If they are one and the same,then there's absolutely NOTHING like a rapture only the SECOND COMING OF CHRIST,and if they are distinct events,well that means there's a second and a third coming of Christ and I don't know about you,but my Bible only points to a second coming,and the second coming ends everything, evil is forever removed and everybody is judged


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Now to get straight to the point of this post,there are several scriptures which point ONLY to the second coming of Christ,we can argue that the word RAPTURE isn't in the Bible, but that argument isn't strong cause I mean,the word BIBLE isn't in the Bible,but we call the Scriptures Bible
So!
Matthew 24 :15-31 :
[15]When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
What is the abomination of desolation spoken by the prophet daniel? Isn't that the Antichrist? And isn't the core message of the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine about being TAKEN AWAY before the tribulation?? Before the son of perdition is revealed?? this verse 15 shows that we would all be here to see the Antichrist standing in the holy place... And what do the next verses say?

Matthew 24:16-17
[16]Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains
[17]Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house
Christ himself is saying to his disciples and to us as well, because we are His disciples,that AFTER the we see the abomination of desolation,we should all RUN, Christ didn't mention a sudden taking away He said we should RUN/FLEE into the mountains

Matthew 24:21-22
[21]For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
[22]And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened
For the ELECT'S sake,not just for anybody's sake ,but for the elect's those days would be shortened,so if there's a catching away,or catching up before the Great tribulation,why did Christ Himself mention the elect?
You could say "ohh the elect here are those who will repent after the tribulation" really?? Are you being honest to yourself? You seem to forget that ,the disciples are the ones that asked Christ for the signs of the end times,so Christ answers were directed to each and everyone of us who are in Him

Matthew 24:27
[27]For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be :
This lovely verse completely destroys the notion of a hush hush event that is the rapture ,right? The coming of the Son of Man will be seen by ALL and not just a selected few

Matthew 24:29
[29]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken
[30]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
[i] Why would they mourn? Because they refused to believe and they know in their very spirits what is to befall all of them ,i really pray and hope more people come to know that Jesus Christ is all that they need, there's no one like Him, nothing compares to Him, He's our everything and outside Him we are nothing [i]

[31]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other

After Christ descends from Heaven,He sends forth his Angels to gather His ELECT ,the same ELECT that the great tribulation is shortened for their sakes. And isn't this gathering of the elect by the Lord's Angels synonymous to the CATCHING AWAY? OR CATCHING UP??
From Matthew 24 we see that there's no such thing as the rapture
Every Christian will go through the Great tribulation, Christ himself tells us to endure to the very end in verse 13 of this Matthew 24,He didn't say endure to just before the Great tribulation ,we are charged to endure to the VERY end

2 Thessalonians 2 :
It seems some persons of the Thessalonian church were at that time, preaching that Christ's second coming was VERY VERY imminent ,and Paul wrote them a letter to soothe their troubled minds and impact knowledge unto them at the same time

2 Thessalonians 2:2-3
[2]That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand [3]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition
Isn't Paul saying is this verse that ALL Christians will be on the earth to witness the revealing of the Antichrist?? And if you read the New testament you'd notice one constant,from Peter to Paul to James to John . They all charges the saints to be aware of the second coming of Christ,and NOT a SUDDEN CATCHING AWAY

1 Thessalonians 1:10
[10]And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come
The wrath to come isn't the Great tribulation,but the second death,which is the lake of fire and brimstone, that's the wrath Christ has saved us from,because we're in Christ death has no hold over us anymore,but we're in Life and Life is in us because Christ is LIFE

1 Thessalonians 4

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
[15]For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


This verses agrees with Matthew 24

1 Corinthians 15:51-53
[51]Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed:
Not all Christians would be killed in the tribulation, there'll always be Christians left,and for the Christians remaining after the Great tribulation,when Christ returns the remaining Christians will be transformed

[52]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

Keywords here are... at the last trump,not middle trump but the LAST trump,the resurrection and then the transformation of the saints
So how was the rapture doctrine based on this verse? The LAST trumpet will sound,and from 1 Thessalonians 4:16 we know it is Christ who will descend with the trump of God,after which the dead in Christ will rise first

[53]For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality

ikes9:

I must confess these verses are very convincing

But I have to ask is the rapture and the second coming of Jesus Christ one and the same? Or are both distinct events ??...
If they are one and the same,then there's absolutely NOTHING like a rapture only the SECOND COMING OF CHRIST,and if they are distinct events,well that means there's a second and a third coming of Christ and I don't know about you,but my Bible only points to a second coming,and the second coming ends everything, evil is forever removed and everybody is judged

According to Jesus Christ ,when He returns, He will judge the works of His followers who will be raised and gathered from all quarters of the earth for this event - Matthew 25 vs 1 - 46

However, there is also the reveal that when Jesus Christ returns, He will raise those of His other flock and they will reign with Him for 1000 years on the earth, before the judgment to come. And this we read partly of in Matthew 24 & Matthew 19. Those who will be raised to reign with Him, as far as I know, are those of Jewish decent whose inheritance includes the land of Canaan here on earth.

Kobojunkie:
According to Jesus Christ ,when He returns, He will judge the works of His followers who will be raised and gathered from all quarters of the earth for this event - Matthew 25 vs 1 - 46

However, there is also the reveal that when Jesus Christ returns, He will raise those of His other flock and they will reign with Him for 1000 years on the earth, before the judgment to come. And this we read partly of in Matthew 24 & Matthew 19. Those who will be raised to reign with Him, as far as I know, are those of Jewish decent whose inheritance includes the land of Canaan here on earth.

I knew I'd see you here

ikes9:

I knew I'd see you here

1 year and 10 months... ofcourse you would.

Kobojunkie:
1 year and 10 months... ofcourse you would.

Do you ever post a smiling emoji??

ikes9:

Do you ever post a smiling emoji??

Focus on the topic abeg!

The Rapture is different from the Second coming of Jesus. The rapture is the sudden catching of the Saints or true believers in Christ who live holy and pure sinless lives to heaven which will happen in the blink of an eye. Only the Saints will hear the trumpet sound and see the Lord in the air.
However, in the second coming of Jesus, he will come here physically to the earth to reign for a thousand years with the saints after the overthrow of the anti-christ and all eyes shall see him

Pauldollars:
The Rapture is different from the Second coming of Jesus. The rapture is the sudden catching of the Saints or true believers in Christ who live holy and pure sinless lives to heaven which will happen in the blink of an eye. Only the Saints will hear the trumpet sound and see the Lord in the air.
However, in the second coming of Jesus, he will come here physically to the earth to reign for a thousand years with the saints after the overthrow of the anti-christ and all eyes shall see him

If the Rapture is different from the second coming, can you tell us then how many times Jesus Christ is meant to come then?

Which event happens first, the Rapture or the "second" coming?

Luke 17:30,34-36
[30]Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
[34]I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
[35]Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
[36]Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


I know what you're thinking,this verse speaks about a rapture,but as we can see in verse 30, this is what happens WHEN the Son of Man is revealed to the world,it further reiterates Matthew 24:31 which says our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will send forth his angels to gather his elect from the four corners of the earth,where ever the elect will be,they'll be collected/caught up by the angels and taken to be with the Lord in the air,where we'll be transformed to be just like our Lord Jesus Christ
So you can see that this chapter and verse doesn't support a rapture of the church it speaks solely of the Second coming of Christ Jesus

Revelation 3:10
[10]Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
This verse seems to support the notion of a pre-tribulation rapture, especially the bolded,but go further into the book and revelation and you see something VERY INTERESTING

Revelation 12:5-6
[5]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[6]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days

The woman fled into the wilderness BECAUSE God has prepared a place for her,if there wasn't a place prepared for her in the wilderness,I doubt she'd run in their and in Matthew 24:38-39
[38]For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
[39]And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be

Christ likened those days to the time of Noah,but you know one thing ? God gave Noah the dimensions to build the Ark ,and Noah preached to the people about the coming flood but they scorned and ignored him. And when the flood came Noah and his family were safe in the ark till the flood was over
I'd like to liken the ark to the place prepared for the woman in revelation 12, there's an ark for her,to protect and feed her in the time of trouble (tribulation) for a 1,260 days . Mind you,the Ark in Noah's time was still earth during the flood,and I believe the ark prepared for the woman in the wilderness will also be on Earth during the tribulation .
Brethren ,we would all be here during the Great tribulation,now isn't the time to be asleep now is the time to hold on to God tightly, build a very strong relationship with God, because we would need it for the times ahead

Revelation 3:10
[10]Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
This verse seems to support the notion of a pre-tribulation rapture, especially the bolded,but go further into the book and revelation and you see something VERY INTERESTING

Revelation 12:5-6
[5]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[6]And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days

The woman fled into the wilderness BECAUSE God has prepared a place for her,if there wasn't a place prepared for her in the wilderness,I doubt she'd run in their and in Matthew 24:38-39
[38]For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
[39]And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be

Christ likened those days to the time of Noah,but you know one thing ? God gave Noah the dimensions to build the Ark ,and Noah preached to the people about the coming flood but they scorned and ignored him. And when the flood came Noah and his family were safe in the ark till the flood was over
I'd like to liken the ark to the place prepared for the woman in revelation 12, there's an ark for her,to protect and feed her in the time of trouble (tribulation) for a 1,260 days . Mind you,the Ark in Noah's time was still earth during the flood,and I believe the ark prepared for the woman in the wilderness will also be on Earth during the tribulation .
Brethren ,we would all be here during the Great tribulation,now isn't the time to be asleep now is the time to hold on to God tightly, build a very strong relationship with God, because we would need it for the times ahead

Pauldollars:
The Rapture is different from the Second coming of Jesus. The rapture is the sudden catching of the Saints or true believers in Christ who live holy and pure sinless lives to heaven which will happen in the blink of an eye. Only the Saints will hear the trumpet sound and see the Lord in the air.
However, in the second coming of Jesus, he will come here physically to the earth to reign for a thousand years with the saints after the overthrow of the anti-christ and all eyes shall see him

Where is it specifically said in the Bible,that only the saints will hear the trumpet sound,and see the Lord in the air
And after the thousand years reign ,isn't the devil released once more? And doesn't he deceive the Earth again?? To wage one final war against good?? Gog and Magog war if I'm correct

ikes9:
Revelation 3:10
[10]Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth
This verse seems to support the notion of a pre-tribulation rapture, especially the bolded,but go further into the book and revelation and you see something VERY INTERESTING

So, keeping His followers from temptation implies they will be lifted off the face of the earth before troubles come?

Why have I bothered to type this loooooong epistle,well it's mainly because I don't want my brothers and sisters in Christ to be ignorant,I'd confess the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is a very soothing one,it tells you "ohh don't worry,you won't be here to see all the evil that'll prevail in those days,so you good" but is that what the Bible says? Is that what Christ said??
Between believing what a pastor said and what Christ says in the Bible,I'd believe what Christ says even when it's a hard thing to swallow because He died for me,not the pastor or teacher, and because He is the Truth ,He can never lie , there's no confusion in Him .

Matthew 24:29
[29]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken
it says immediately after the tribulation of those days.... but even immediately after the tribulation there are more things to happen , because I'm sure people will now start guessing dates because Christ said immediately after but go down further and what do you read??

Matthew 24:36
[36]But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. NO ONE but the Father knows when Christ will come back again,so you can't even predict any dates AFTER the tribulation....

We should stop trying to PREDICT dates,be aware of the signs to have an idea of the season we're in

Kobojunkie:
So, keeping His followers from temptation implies they will be lifted off the face of the earth before troubles come?

That's what some Christians say,and that's why I cited this verse,to tell them it doesn't relate to anything rapture

The rapture is not the second coming of Christ. Jesus Christ is not going to come to the earth at the rapture but would be in the air at the trumpet sound to receive the Christians raptured.

The Second coming of Jesus Christ is when he will come physically to reign as King of kings on earth. He will establish his rule at Zion (Jerusalem)

After the thousand yrs reign of Christ on earth...the devil will be released again from the abyss to try those who were born on earth during the period of Christ's reign and unfortunately many will still be deceived. He will gather a large army to wage war against Christ and the Saints; but they will all be destroyed by the breadth of Christ.

Lol... Everyone's eye is getting opened... As we've always prayed

Pauldollars:
The Rapture is different from the Second coming of Jesus. The rapture is the sudden catching of the Saints or true believers in Christ who live holy and pure sinless lives to heaven which will happen in the blink of an eye. Only the Saints will hear the trumpet sound and see the Lord in the air.
However, in the second coming of Jesus, he will come here physically to the earth to reign for a thousand years with the saints after the overthrow of the anti-christ and all eyes shall see him

Where is your 1st paragraph written in the bible?

Pauldollars:
The rapture is not the second coming of Christ. Jesus Christ is not going to come to the earth at the rapture but would be in the air at the trumpet sound to receive the Christians raptured.

The Second coming of Jesus Christ is when he will come physically to reign as King of kings on earth. He will establish his rule at Zion (Jerusalem)

Where is your 1st paragraph written in the bible, or what's your reference?

obonujoker:


Where is your 1st paragraph written in the bible?

Pls go and read your Bible. Don't just come online and debate without having Bible knowledge.
They are all there in scriptures for you to read

Pauldollars:


Pls go and read your Bible. Don't just come online and debate without having Bible knowledge.
They are all there in scriptures for you to read

Lol... Since you can't prove your first paragraph, it means you don't know where it is in the bible, so you came here to give us excerpts from the "left behind movies" abi...?

However do you know a resurrection will happen at the rapture sound?

Pauldollars:
The rapture is not the second coming of Christ. Jesus Christ is not going to come to the earth at the rapture but would be in the air at the trumpet sound to receive the Christians raptured.

Jesus Christ will be in the air to recieve those raptured?

Where is this expressed in scripture please.

So, I am guessing at this point that this rapture you speak of happens before Jesus Christ comes back for a second time to reign on earth, right?
So what happens to those who were taken up in the air during the rapture? Where will they they since they were lifted off the face of the earth prior to the second coming you speak of? When they are recieved in the air, where do they go next?

obonujoker:


Lol... Since you can't prove your first paragraph, it means you don't know where it is in the bible, so you came here to give us excerpts from the "left behind movies" abi...?

However do you know a resurrection will happen at the rapture sound?

I'm not giving you any scripture to read. If you are interested in knowing anything about the truth, the Bible is free for you to read.

Pauldollars:



I'm not giving you any scripture to read. If you are interested in knowing anything about the truth, the Bible is free for you to read.

Then stop posting unknown on public forum

obonujoker:


Then stop posting unknown on public forum

You're not the OP interested in knowing scriptural events and you're asking so many questions? Whatever I'm posting concerns the OP not you. If you read something on a public forum and decide not to understand, its left for you. Mine is to respond to the OP

obonujoker:
Lol... Everyone's eye is getting opened... As we've always prayed

My brother, I'm just imagining the millions of Christians that believe in a rapture,a doctrine that's solely based on a movie left behind series ,what their reactions will be when the Antichrist is revealed and they are still here on Earth,the anger, despair and all
And knowing the human instinct, they'll blame God for it, instead of blaming themselves for not studying their scriptures as they are meant to.
Sometimes I feel like it's one of the things that'll add to the great falling away spoken by Paul

ikes9:

My brother, I'm just imagining the millions of Christians that believe in a rapture,a doctrine that's solely based on a movie left behind series ,what their reactions will be when the Antichrist is revealed and they are still here on Earth,the anger, despair and all
And knowing the human instinct, they'll blame God for it, instead of blaming themselves for not studying their scriptures as they are meant to.
Sometimes I feel like it's one of the things that'll add to the great falling away spoken by Paul

The rapture doctrine is most definitely not based on the movie series.

Kobojunkie:
The rapture doctrine is most definitely not based on the movie series.

Okay