TAO12:
Wait … What!?

What version of CRAP is this? CRAP-v.7-22-A-M

Anyways:

Show me one European in Mali or Burkina-Faso, or in the deep forest of Kong (not near coast) during the periods of the Oghoni’s overlordship.

You have just one job, just this one. Now do it.

.

Are you this daft?
What year was the first map of West/Eastern African drawn showing the rivers of Niger and Kongo you this WEED smoking machine?
What year did Mungo Park go half the course of River Niger that other Europeans wouldn't have done looking for Suzerain of the Oba, a king with no army and eyes dare not see?

Oh, you think drone was used like your invincible king

It seems you are running out of weed better contact the palace of Ogane sharp sharp

TAO12:
I stand by it 100% because to a Yoruba free-born, [the latter] periods of conquest of “Nigeria” is not one and the same as [the prior] periods of interaction.

You must be a natural slave if “interaction” means one and the same thing as “conquest” to you.

I’m not surprised. You’re an Edo. So, conquering you may be one and the same as interacting with you.

As such, your attempt at being my secretary turns out to be a misery for you. So, CRAP!

Show me any of these names in any contemporary pre-1897 writing of Benin history (or in any pre-1897 writing of Benin history whatsoever).

Your time starts now:

Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

Cc: nisai

What nonsense are you saying. You boldly said no Nigeria or Benin king was named by Europeans during the years of interactions.

TAO12:
PS:
Throughout the centuries of interaction between the Europeans and the southern “Nigeria” area, including Benin kingdom, there is no single record of a name of any Benin king.

Shall we then be foolish like you to pretend to reach the inane conclusion that Benin began to have kings on recently — or that Benin kings (if they exist) never had names?

Peace!

Cc: nisai

I say you are a big liar because the Europeans were in Benin Palace to interact with the Oba of Benin. The name of Oba of Benin was recorded down and this was decades before Benin was conquered by the British in 1897.

All you need to do is admit that your initial statement was wrong and let me lecture you. You can't con and wiggle your way out of this. Name of Benin oba was written down by Europeans during the years of interactions.

Admit your flaws and allow me to lecture you. Numerous of your supporters are waiting to learn real history not your lies.

KingOKON:
[s]Are you this daft?
What year was the first map of West/Eastern African drawn showing the rivers of Niger and Kongo you this WEED smoking machine?
What year did Mungo Park go half the course of River Niger that other Europeans wouldn't have done looking for Suzerain of the Oba, a king with no army and eyes dare not see?
Oh, you think drone was used like your invincible king
It seems you are running out of weed better contact the palace of Ogane sharp sharp[/s]

You are actually too foolish to be ignored.

So, I will dumb things down for you so you don’t run along screaming “obaghatokpehe” like a stray horse.

(1) The first time the River Niger was traced out from outlet to source was in the 1800s by the Landers.

(2) Park’s “discovery” of the River was the first serious attempt to trace it. And he did that in the 1790s.

(3) As such, his exploration was a boat cruise through river, not a land trip through the west African forest.

(4) Despite this foregoing fact, some early maps show River-Niger — i.e. an idealistic feature of the maps on the basis of reports obtained from coastal contacts.

(5) In fact, some of the early maps show an annotation namely the “O[gh]oni’s Dominion” [in Latin]. I have two of such maps from the 1500s.

(6) In any case, European explorers who visited early in the late-1400s, 1500s, 1600s, and 1700s were dead-scared to wade deep into the deeply forested interior.

(7) Even when they did in the 1800s, it was still a huge disaster; but clearly not as bad as it would have been in the early centuries.

(8 ) The Ogane report was from Europeans who came to the Benin area in the late 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, etc.

(9) In light of all the foregoing show me the European who penetrated from the Atlantic coast to as far as Mali and Burkina-Faso during the “Ogane” period.

(10) You have just one job, just this one. Now do it.

Peace!

You still ended up chatting CRAP.

(1) The period of the Europeans’ interaction with the southern “Nigeria” area relates to the period when the Portuguese, the Dutch, the French, et al. came as traders, travelers, explores, etc.

The period under consideration is thus somewhere in between the late-1400s up to around the mid-1800s.

These European explorers, traders, and travelers did not visit for the purpose of colonial conquest.

(2) In contrast, the period of colonial interest began in the very early-1800s. And the actual colonization first began in the mid-1800s.

So, there is a clear and sharp distinction between the periods of interaction (from explores, traders, etc. who clearly didn’t attempt a colonial government) and the period of conquest (from the British who initiated the actual conquest of in the mid-1800s).

As such, you’ve been asked to show us just one name of your oba which was documented during the period of European interaction with the southern “Nigeria” area.

You must realize, in your best interest, that my words are always chosen with utmost care and precision. I don’t type just to be seen typing as you do.

samuk:
[s]What nonsense are you saying. You boldly said no Nigeria or Benin king was named by Europeans during the years of interactions.
I say you are a big liar because the Europeans were in Benin Palace to interact with the Oba of Benin. The name of Oba of Benin was recorded down and this was decades before Benin was conquered by the British in 1897.

All you need to do is admit that your initial statement was wrong and let me lecture you. You can't con and wiggle your way out this. Name of Benin oba was written down by Europeans during the years of interactions.

Admit your flaws and allow me to lecture you. Numerous of your supporters are waiting to learn real history not your lies.[/s]

Show me any of these names in any contemporary pre-1897 writing of Benin history (or any pre-1897 writing of Benin history for that matter).

[Mind you, these are your supposed obas who are said to have ruled between the late-1200s and circa 1816 — i.e. not extending into the start of British imperialism in the “southern” Nigeria area.]

Your time starts now:

Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

Cc: nisai

TAO12:
You still ended up chatting CRAP.

(1) The period of the Europeans’ interaction with the southern “Nigeria” area relates to the period when the Portuguese, the Dutch, the French, et al. came as traders, travelers, explores, etc.

The period under consideration is thus somewhere in between the late-1400s up to around the mid-1800s.

These European explorers, traders, and travelers did not visit for the purpose of colonial conquest.

(2) In contrast, the period of colonial interest began in the very early-1800s. And the actual colonization first began in the mid-1800s.

So, there is a clear and sharp distinction between the periods of interaction (from explores, traders, etc. who clearly didn’t attempt a colonial government) and the period of conquest (from the British who initiated the actual conquest of in the mid-1800s).

As such, you’ve been asked to show us just one name of your oba which was documented during the period of European interaction with the southern “Nigeria” area.

You must realize, in your best interest, that my words are always chosen with utmost care and precision. I don’t type just to be seen typing as you do.


Show me any of these names in any contemporary pre-1897 writing of Benin history (or any pre-1897 writing of Benin history for that matter).

[Mind you, these are your supposed obas who are said to have ruled between the late-1200s and circa 1816 — i.e. not extending into the start of British imperialism in the “southern” Nigeria area.]

Your time starts now:

Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

Cc: nisai

Humble yourself and learn, I leave you with your limited knowledge until you are ready to humble yourself.

TAO12:



Wow! That also once helped you?

Hmm! You must have felt suicidal.

Your Bini audience are listening sha.

Feel free to tell us more of your life story.

Thanks!

Go outside, get a life

samuk:
[s]Humble yourself and learn, I leave you with your limited knowledge until you are ready to humble yourself[/s]

The idiot wants to run-away as usual ni sha. Come back here, ọmọ ẹrú [ibiẹdo].

Show me any of these names in any contemporary pre-1897 writing of Benin history (or any pre-1897 writing of Benin history for that matter).

Your time starts now:

Uwuakhuahen
Henmihen
Ewedo
Oguola
Edoni
Udagbedo
Ohen
Egbeka
Orobiru
Uwaifiokun
Ewuare I
Ezoti
Olua
Ozolua
Esigie
Orhogbua
Ehengbuda
Ohuan
Ohenzae
Akenkpaye
Akengbedo
Ore-Oghene
Ewuakpe
Ozuere
Akenzua I
Eresoyen
Akengbuda
Obanosa
Ogbebo.

Cc: nisai

Think4Myself:
Go outside, get a life

I get it — you really want to help Benin kingdom.

However, nothing dey inside brain.

What a disaster!?

TAO12:

I get it — you really want to help Benin kingdom.

However, nothing dey inside brain.

What a disaster!?

Go read a book, learn a skill it'll help you.
I can tell from the way you attack the great Benin kingdom you have a very low self esteem, channel that energy into making money and it'll boost your confidence extremely ma

Think4Myself:
[s]Go read a book, learn a skill it'll help you.
I can tell from the way you attack the great Benin kingdom you have a very low self esteem, channel that energy into making money and it'll boost your confidence extremely ma[/s]

Lol. See projection.
Take your advise. You and your fellow liars clearly need it. Perhaps you all will stop lying.

TAO12:
Lol. See projection.
Take your advise. You and your fellow liars clearly need it. Perhaps you all will stop lying.

Go and drink milk
It helps the brain
You need it

Think4Myself:
[s]Go and drink milk
It helps the brain
You need it[/s]

Take your advice. You clearly need it considering your wonderfully-low I.Q.

But is this how you intend to save Benin fables from intellectual scrutiny?

TAO12:
Is this how you will save Benin fables from intellectual scrutiny?

Go and drink milk
It helps the brain
You need it

Think4Myself:

[s]Go and drink milk
It helps the brain
You need it[/s]

https://www.nairaland.com/6697675/power-oba-benin-wield-past/3#105207040

Below is the story of Ogane mentioned in Benin history that TAO11 is claiming as Ooni/Ife.

For those that doesn't know the geographical location of Ife from Benin. Please be kindly informed that Ife is situated West of Benin.

1486 João de Barros: Pre-Protuguese Christian influence in Benin - Ibid., 126-7

Among the many things which the King D. João learnt from the ambassador of the king of Benin, and also from João Afonso d'Aveiro, of what they had been told by the inhabitants of these regions, was that to the east of Beny at twenty moons' journey which according to their account, and the short journeys they make, would be about two hundred and fifty of our leauges there lived the most powerful monarch of these parts, who was called Ogané. Among the pagan chiefs of the territories of Beny he was held in as great veneration as is the Supreme Pontif with us. In accordance with a very ancient custom, the king of Beny, on ascending the throne, sends ambassadors to him with rich gifts to announce that by the decease of his predecessor he has succeeded to the kingdom of Beny, and to request confirmation. To signify his assent, the prince Ogané sends the king a staff and a headpiece of shining brass, fashioned like a Spanish helmet, in place of a crown and sceptre. He also sends a cross, likewise of brass, to be worn round the neck, a holy and religious emblem similar to that worn by the Knights of the Order of Saint John. Without these emblems the people do not recognize him as lawful ruler, nor can he call himself truly king. All the time this ambassador is at the court of Ogané, he never sees the prince, but only the curtains of silk behind which he sits, for he is regarded as sacred. When the ambassador is leaving, he is shown a foot below the curtains as a sign that the prince is within and agrees to the matters that he has raised; this foot they reverence as though it were a sacred relic.[/b] As a kind of reward for the hardships of such a journey the ambassador receives a small cross, similar to that sent to the king, which is thrown round his neck to signify that he is free and exempt from all servitudes, and privileged in his native country, as the Knights are with us.

Regarding the word “east”, read the devastating refutation below.

samuk:
Below is the story of Ogane mentioned in Benin history that TAO11 is claiming as Ooni/Ife.

1486 João de Barros: Pre-Protuguese Christian influence in Benin - Ibid., 126-7

Among the many things which the King D. João learnt from the ambassador of the king of Benin, and also from João Afonso d'Aveiro, of what they had been told by the inhabitants of these regions, was that to the east of Beny ••• there lived the most powerful monarch of these parts, who was called Ogané. •••

The Devastating Refutation:

Eyewitness testimony/writings from the late-1400s & early-1500s which references the monarch of the Ife kingdom & his suzerainty over Benin kingdom exist.

NB: Yes, there used to be a debate in academia in the 1970s/1980s (between the mainstream scholars on one hand; and one, two, or three others on another hand) over the identity of this suzerain.

This debate was particularly on the usage of the word “east” in those early writings.

In present time, however, there is no single academic historian who holds the notion that this suzerain (of the early writings) is other than the Ooni of Ife [i.e. Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni Ufẹ̀ in the Ife dialect of the Yoruba language].

The symbol ⟨ɣ⟩ being the voiced velar fricative with its consonant sound as in this audio sample.

This conclusion is reinforced by the fact that no king, throughout the Guinea Forest of West Africa matches the specific sacral details given in those early writings, except the Ooni of Ife.

In addition to this significant fact, the debate over the word “east” was subsequently quelled by the fact that from Atakpame (in present-day Togo) to the kingdom of Benin (in present-day Nigeria), from Èkó (next to the Atlantic Ocean) to Ọ̀yọ́-Ilé (not far from the Niger River) Ife is known by the interesting epithet: Ibi ojúmọ́ ti ń mọ́ wá — i.e. “the place from where the sun rises”.

For some written references to the widespread usage of this epithet (in reference to Ife) among the natives of this region of West Africa, please refer to:

(A) Rev. D. Hinderer, “Diary Impression,” June 4, 1851, Ibadan, C.M.S.

(B) R. Horton (1979), p. 85., citing B. Maupoil (1943), A. Akinjogbin (1967:41-43), R. Smith (1969:31), as well as A. Obayemi (1976:206).

This reverential (rather than literal) epithet of Ife informed the literalist Europeans’ writings whose source(s) are Benin spokespersons of their king.

Hence the appearance of the word “east” in the early European writings in reference to the kingdom of the Ọ̀ɣọ̀ni (who is transliterated in the early writings as “Hooguanee”, “Ogané”, etc.).

Side Note: Binis, till today, still sometimes refer to the Ooni as Oghene. Refer to the entry “ɔɣɛnɛ” (i.e. “ọghẹnẹ”) in Hans Melzian’s “A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria” where its second definition is given as: “Bini name for the ↄni at Ile Ife”

Moreover, another piece of historical evidence which quelled the academic debate on the word “east” (as is seen in the early writings in reference to this overlord) are early maps.

There are maps (e.g. from the early 1500s) which show the phrase Dominion of the Orguene annotated across the western half of today’s Nigeria.

These historical information leaves anyone (not only the historians) with the only logical conclusion that the appearance of the word “east” in those early writings is of course not literal.

In conclusion, contrary to your ignorant assumption, there are writings from the early 1500s (on the basis of interviews of Bini representatives in the late 1400s) which references the king of Ife & his overlordship on Benin kingdom and other places.

Apart from early writings, there are other types of historical evidence which also establish clearly that there exist a classic (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

These other type of historical evidence which I come to here are classical artifacts from the hard science of archaeology. One crucial examples in this regard is discussed below.

The artifact shown in this link is the image of an Ooni of Ife. ~ S. P. Blier, “Art in Ancient Ife,” 2012, Figure 17.

The Ife naturalism of this artifact, its facial striations, as well as its classical Ife ceremonial costume and the pair of chest ornament help art historians (as well as Benin chroniclers alike) with identifying this image as an Ooni of Ife.

What is very, very crucial here is that this artifact was found in the archaeological deposits of Benin. To be more precise, it was excavated from the royal palace of Benin kingdom.

Furthermore, the production date of this artifact has now been established by science. This artifact is dated, by thermoluminescence technique, to the year 1420 [± 60 years].

~ Calvocoressi & David, “A New Survey of Radiocarbon and Thermoluminescence Dates for West Africa,” 1979, p. 19.

For more pictorial angles (and details) regarding this particular artifact, please refer to:

(A) W. Fagg, “A Bronze Figure in Ife Style at Benin,” British Museum, June 1950, Plate Fa, Fb, Fc

(B) F. Willett, “Ife in the History of West African Sculpture,” McGraw-Hill, 1967, Figure 89.

(C) C. Adepegba, “The Descent from Oduduwa,” 1986, Plate 4.

In other words, a more-than 500-year-old ‘bronze’ cast of an Ooni Ife was discovered in the (archaeological deposits of the) palace of Benin kingdom.

In conclusion, it thus becomes clear that there exists a classical (i.e. pre-1800) father & son relationship between Ife & Benin respectively.

Again, this conclusion which I have inevitably reached is not mine. This is simply the conclusion of historical scholarship. This can be seen in the following works:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A beautiful summary of this conclusion of scholars of
African history (some of whose names and works are listed above) is shown in the page below from Adam Knobler (2016), p.47.

Peace!

Regarding the 20 moons’ journey, Ife was in fact 20 moons’ walking trip away from Benin. Read below:

samuk:
Below is the story of Ogane mentioned in Benin history that TAO11 is claiming as Ooni/Ife.

1486 João de Barros: Pre-Protuguese Christian influence in Benin - Ibid., 126-7

Among the many things which the King D. João learnt from the ambassador of the king of Benin, and also from João Afonso d'Aveiro, of what they had been told by the inhabitants of these regions, was that ••• at twenty moons' journey which ••• would be about two hundred and fifty of our leauges there lived the most powerful monarch of these parts, who was called Ogané •••.

IFE is roughly about 174 miles away from Benin City.

However, the alleged distance of 900 miles is NOT mentioned anywhere in the text.

Instead, the distance between Benin City and the Ogane’s place [as given in the text] is 250 leagues.

However, this number (250 leagues) wasn’t obtained (by the Portuguese) from any Bini informant. This fact is extremely clear from the text itself.

In fact, the Binis who lived in the 1400s/1500s did not measure distance in leagues, miles, etc. As such, they couldn’t have given such information.

Instead, the Binis of the 1400s, 1500s, etc. measured distance in natural terms, e.g. on the basis of celestial bodies such as the Moon, etc.

Interestingly, the distance obtained from the Binis by the Portuguese was given in terms of the Moon. This is given in the text.

The Binis informed the Portuguese that it takes twenty (20) moons journey to go from Benin city to the Ogané’s place.

It was on the basis of this received information (i.e. 20 moons journey away) that the Portuguese imagined what the distance in “leagues” should be.

The distance in leagues was NOT received from the Binis. The text is clear on this. The W/African context is also clear on this.

Having said that, the natural question now becomes:

Is this number (20 moons journey from Benin City to the Ogane’s place) realistic for IFE if it is indeed the Ogane’s place??

In other words, could the distance from Benin City to Ile-Ife possibly have been twenty moons journey in some “traditional” terms? Let’s do the Maths on the basis of average numbers & the “traditional” context.

The data to be used for the Math is NOT on the basis of Google map’s algorithm which assumes a walking trip with zero tiredness, zero rests, zero stops, zero pauses, zero relaxations, zero camps, constant rapid pace, etc.

Instead, the data to be used is on the basis of the real life situation, average numbers, & traditional context.

Datum 1: C. G. Okojie’s “Ishan Native Laws and Customs,” p. 210. provides the first data as follows:

The walking trip from Uromi (in Ishan) to Benin City on a course of some 50 miles “traditionally” took an average of 5 months.

~ Cited in A.F.C. Ryder (1965), p.27.

Datum 2: IFE is roughly about 174 miles away from Benin City (even over the ancient Benin-Owo-Ife route).

These two data leave an answer of about 17.4 months [NOT moons] as the “traditional” walking time from Benin to Ife.

In other words, IFE is 17.4 months journey away from Benin city on the average “traditionally”.

Question: How many “moons” are 17.4 months equivalent to? To answer this, two pieces of data will be adduced.

Datum 3: It takes the Moon 27.322 days to go around the earth.

In other words, there are [exactly] about 27.322 days in one “moon”.

Datum 4: There is an average of 30.47 days in one month.

Summary:
(1) The “traditional” walking distance from Benin to Ile-Ife took an average of 17.4 months

(2) 17.4 months are equivalent to 530.178 days (i.e. 17.4 months * 30.47days per month).

(3) 530.178 days are equivalent to 19.4 moons (i.e. 530.178 days / 27.322 days per moon).

In conclusion, the facts and figures turn out to prove that the “traditional” trip from Benin city to Ile-Ife took an average of 19.4 moons.

This answer is therefore astoundingly accurate for all practical intents and purpose.

From this again, we see that Ife is indeed the place of the Ogané of the Portuguese text. The Bini informant knew exactly what he was talking about.

Peace!

Regarding the mention of “cross”.

samuk:
Below is the story of Ogane mentioned in Benin history that TAO11 is claiming as Ooni/Ife.

•••

1486 João de Barros: Pre-Protuguese Christian influence in Benin - Ibid., 126-7

Among the many things which the King D. João learnt from the ambassador of the king of Benin, and also from João Afonso d'Aveiro, of what they had been told by the inhabitants of these regions, was that

•••

there lived the most powerful monarch of these parts, who was called Ogané. In accordance with a very ancient custom, the king of Beny, on ascending the throne, sends ambassadors to him with rich gifts to announce that by the decease of his predecessor he has succeeded to the kingdom of Beny, and to request confirmation. To signify his assent, the prince Ogané sends the king ••• a cross, likewise of brass, to be worn round the neck, a holy and religious emblem similar to that worn by the Knights of the Order of Saint John. Without these emblems the people do not recognize him as lawful ruler, nor can he call himself truly king.

•••

As a kind of reward for the hardships of such a journey the ambassador receives a small cross, similar to that sent to the king, which is thrown round his neck to signify that he is free and exempt from all servitudes, and privileged in his native country, as the Knights are with us.

There are many cross motif symbols in the arts of Ife which again proves Ife to be the place of the Ogane in d’Aveiro’s account in the recension of Joao de Barros. Robin Horton puts it down as follows:

“Thus we now have several examples of the Maltese-cross symbols on terra-cotta materials excavated at Ife*”

Robin Horton, “Ancient Ife: A Reassessment,” Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria,” Vol. 9. No.4, 1979, p.86.

Moreover, the following passage, showing the Oba of Benin’s address of morning prayers to his ancestors at Ife and Oyo also confirms the association of cross with Ife in particular and Yorubaland in general.

The account is recorded by Ward-Price who was on a visit to the then Oba of Benin. He writes:

“Following the Oba, I went through a heavy Iroko door, which opened into a long, narrow, corridor-like room, with a tall window at the other end. He showed me a brass crucifix which was attached to a cord around his neck, and waited for the first rays of the day to illumine the window, when he pressed the crucifix to his forehead, and prayed for the Oni of Ife, the Alaafin of Oyo and the Oba of Benin (that is himself), after which he prayed for all the other Yoruba kings. This had for long been the custom, he said, whether the Oba was Christian or not.”

H. L. Ward-Price, “Dark Subject,” 1939, p.238.

Peace!

From the beginning of time Benin and other Edoid groups such a Urhobo have always referred to God almighty in heaven as Oghene.

The Ogene she is trying to convert to Ooni today was first argued by her as being part of Benin myths of creation. You can see from TAO11 submission below that Oghene clearly referred to God in heaven not Ooni of Ife.

In Benin myths of creation, the Benin/Iso people as represented by the Ogisos are the most senior and supreme just as the Jews claim being the apples of God eyes.

Today, she wants to twist the Benin myths of creation to suits her Benin/Ife fairytale. She even replaces God almighty with Ooni of Ife. The Benin/Iso people who were senior in the original myth are now juniors.

The Oba of Benin prays to God almighty in heaven, Oghene not Ooni. He may pray for others but the prayers goes to God in heaven, Oghene.

TAO11:


Actually they have a number of conflicting creation myths.

One of them --- with the title "Iso Norho" --- specifically mentions Ife as the center of the world from where Edo, Ijaw, and Igbo left to their present location.

It talks about pouring sand over the primordial water-filled earth, about chain from heaven, etc. very similar to the Yoruba creation myth.

I will cite reference to it soon.

Modified --- see below as promised:

"The myth of the pouring sky ("Iso Norho" )

The most popular surviving non-dynastic myth of a common Edo origin is that of Iso Norho, ... .It puts the emergence of the Benin and other -speaking people in a primordial centre, Uhe, a place where problems are heaped before Oghene --- the God of creation --- ... .Uhe is said to have been occupied by Olukumi ("Yoruba" ), Igbon ("Igbo" ) and Uzon ("Ijo" ).

The myth begins by naming Oghene ( God" ) as the father of Iso ("the Sky" ), Ason ("Night" ) and Avan ("Daylight" ). Out of the three children of Oghene, only the eldest son, Iso ("Sky" ), had children; Ame ("Water" ) and Oto ("Earth" ). The children of Oto were Igbon ("Igbo" ), Olukumi ("Yoruba " and Idu ("Edo ". ... .But Oghene did not want the children to suffer undue hardship. By means of a chain he poured sand on the flood water to form dry land for their inhabitants. Thus Uhe ("i.e. old Ife" ) was formed by divine ("Oghene's" ) providence. ...

Idu's children ("Akka, Efa, Emechi" ) had to migrate from Uhe to the present site of Benin City --- then called Ubinu --- where they displaced a group of original settlers, Ivbirinwineko ("dwarfs from the spirit world" ). Memories of these original settlers are preserved in Edo songs and folklore."

Reference:
Roger Blench and Matthew Spriggs: Archaeology and Language I: Theoretical and Methodological Orientations, Taylor & Francis e-Library, 2004, pp.312-313.

samuk:
[s]From the beginning of time Benin and other Edoid groups such a Urhobo have always referred to God almighty in heaven as Oghene.

The Ogene she is trying to convert to Ife today was first argued by her as being part of Benin myths of creation. You can see from TAO11 submission below that Oghene clearly referred to God in heaven not Ooni of Ife.

Today, she wants to twist the myths of creation to suits her Benin/Ife fairytale.[/s]

This guy is a dullard. You need anything to stay afloat, don’t you?

Samuk’s Reasoning:
The name “Oghene” features in Edo mythology, hence “Oghene” is not real.

My Reply:
The name “Benin”/“Ubini” features in Edo myth, hence “Ubini”/“Benin” is a fictional place that does not exist.

“Ogiso” feature in Edo mythology, hence there was no Ogiso monarchy prior to the present Oba dynasty.

You are a disgrace, you actually deserve a medal for foolishness.
——————
See the first screenshot for your own Bini dictionary as per the meaning of ọghẹnẹ/ɔɣɛnɛ (using diacritic
symbols/IPA symbols).

Reference:
H. Melzian, A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Souther Nigeria.

Peace!

TAO12:
You are actually too foolish to be ignored.

So, I will dumb things down for you so you don’t run along screaming “obaghatokpehe” like a stray horse.

(1) The first time the River Niger was traced out from outlet to source was in the 1800s by the Landers.

(2) Park’s “discovery” of the River was the first serious attempt to trace it. And he did that in the 1790s.

(3) As such, his exploration was a boat cruise through river, not a land trip through the west African forest.

(4) Despite this foregoing fact, some early maps show River-Niger — i.e. an idealistic feature of the maps on the basis of reports obtained from coastal contacts.

(5) In fact, some of the early maps show an annotation namely the “O[gh]oni’s Dominion” [in Latin]. I have two of such maps from the 1500s.

(6) In any case, European explorers who visited early in the late-1400s, 1500s, 1600s, and 1700s were dead-scared to wade deep into the deeply forested interior.

(7) Even when they did in the 1800s, it was still a huge disaster; but clearly not as bad as it would have been in the early centuries.

(8 ) The Ogane report was from Europeans who came to the Benin area in the late 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, etc.

(9) In light of all the foregoing show me the European who penetrated from the Atlantic coast to as far as Mali and Burkina-Faso during the “Ogane” period.

(10) You have just one job, just this one. Now do it.

Peace!

.


For the above NONSENSE I score you 2 outta 10. Honestly, you are truly a WEED smoking goat.

Every 14 year old kid knows about the lander brothers, but your crack smoking WEED head knows nothing about Kongo River and the voyages made by several explorers and the years.

If Maps of Timbuktu in Mali, Sosso in Burkina Faso were drawn as early as 1375 and the myths of Niger/ Kongo Rivers having a common source drawing many explorers long before Mungo Park( he never traced it he died half way) was born could lure men, what then could have stop men wanting to see the Suzerain of the Oba of the Benin kingdom. The king with no army and "eyes dare not see" for over 400 years?

O[gh]oni Dominion, the latinized name of Ogane is more Yoruba than I expected what a wonder. Plz I want to see this map with immediate alacrity, a suzerain that doesn't exist in the timeline of Africa , West Africa, Nigeria only in a bush in southwest Nigeria brought to limelight by a politician and dubious wannabes village self acclaimed historians seeking to be relevant in African history.
If the first University was cited outside of Ibadan do you think we will be having this jargons of a chitchat.


The Oba was known in the Royals court of Europe and discussed, till tomorrow the Royal family in Lagos can only dissuss the Oba and not the Ooni ditto Onitsha, Warri, Agbor and numerous tribes.
The British sacked Benin while Abeokuta Ibadan and Ilorin rolled over not a mention of ile Ife was ever made anywhere not to talk of any " eyes dare not see" king that you WEED smoking goats claim to have been reported in the courts/ cities of Europe for over 400years.

The Europeans that met with Chiefs in Badagry, EKO, Abeokuta, Ijebu Ibadan never reported any "eyes dare not see" King. In the entire Benin Kingdom nobody knew of such nonsense even the very next door neighborhood of Modakeke till tomorrow don't and never knew of such IMMORTAL king, it is in the court of the Oba of Benin whose kingdom the world knows that it was only reported for 400years
Continue smoking your weed and be spinning history to comfort yourself

KingOKON:
[s]For the above NONSENSE I score you 2 outta 10. Honestly, you are truly a WEED smoking goat.
Every 14 year old kid knows about the lander brothers, but your crack smoking WEED head knows nothing about Kongo River and the voyages made by several explorers and the years.

If Maps of Timbuktu in Mali, Sosso in Burkina Faso were drawn as early as 1375 and the myths of Niger/ Kongo Rivers having a common source drawing many explorers long before Mungo Park( he never traced it he died half way) was born could lure men, what then could have stop men wanting to see the Suzerain of the Oba of the Benin kingdom. The king with no army and "eyes dare not see" for over 400 years?

O[gh]oni Dominion, the latinized name of Ogane is more Yoruba than I expected what a wonder. Plz I want to see this map with immediate alacrity, a suzerain that doesn't exist in the timeline of Africa , West Africa, Nigeria only in a bush in southwest Nigeria brought to limelight by a politician and dubious wannabes village self acclaimed historians seeking to be relevant in African history.
If the first University was cited outside of Ibadan do you think we will be having this jargons of a chitchat.


The Oba was known in the Royals court of Europe and discussed, till tomorrow the Royal family in Lagos can only dissuss the Oba and not the Ooni ditto Onitsha, Warri, Agbor and numerous tribes.
The British sacked Benin while Abeokuta Ibadan and Ilorin rolled over not a mention of ile Ife was ever made anywhere not to talk of any " eyes dare not see" king that you WEED smoking goats claim to have been reported in the courts/ cities of Europe for over 400years.

The Europeans that met with Chiefs in Badagry, EKO, Abeokuta, Ijebu Ibadan never reported any "eyes dare not see" King. In the entire Benin Kingdom nobody knew of such nonsense even the very next door neighborhood of Modakeke till tomorrow don't and never knew of such IMMORTAL king, it is in the court of the Oba of Benin whose kingdom the world knows that it was only reported for 400years
Continue smoking your weed and be spinning history to comfort yourself[/s]

What version of crap is the above?? Must be crap-v-8-5-9-a-m

See my reply to your crap embedded below:

TAO11:

You are actually too foolish to be ignored.

So, I will dumb things down for you so you don’t run along screaming “obaghatokpehe” like a stray horse.

(1) The first time the River Niger was traced out from outlet to source was in the 1800s by the Landers.

(2) Park’s “discovery” of the River was the first serious attempt to trace it. And he did that in the 1790s.

(3) As such, his exploration was a boat cruise through river, not a land trip through the west African forest.

(4) Despite this foregoing fact, some early maps show River-Niger — i.e. an idealistic feature of the maps on the basis of reports obtained from coastal contacts.

(5) In fact, some of the early maps show an annotation namely the “O[gh]oni’s Dominion” [in Latin]. I have two of such maps from the 1500s.

(6) In any case, European explorers who visited early in the late-1400s, 1500s, 1600s, and 1700s were dead-scared to wade deep into the deeply forested interior.

(7) Even when they did in the 1800s, it was still a huge disaster; but clearly not as bad as it would have been in the early centuries.

(8 ) The Ogane report was from Europeans who came to the Benin area in the late 1400s, 1500s, 1600s, etc.

(9) In light of all the foregoing show me the European who penetrated from the Atlantic coast to as far as Mali and Burkina-Faso during the “Ogane” period.

(10) You have just one job, just this one. Now do it.

Peace!

You have only one job — just one, viz.

Show me the European who penetrated from the Atlantic coast to as far as Mali and Burkina-Faso during the “Ogane” period.

Do your one job NOW.

TAO12:
What version of crap is the above?? Must be crap-v-8-5-9-a-m

See my reply to your crap embedded below:


You have only one job — just one, viz.

Show me the European who penetrated from the Atlantic coast to as far as Mali and Burkina-Faso during the “Ogane” period.

So, do your one job.

Go get more WEEDs so you will go beyond processing to having an analytic mentality.

The significance of Uhe in Benin mythology.

Uhe[/b]in Benin means female reproductive part or virginal.

In Benin methodology, it's believed that [b]Uhe is the passage from which God almighty sends his children to the world.

Uhe was never a geographical location in Benin myths of creation, it was certainly not Ife.

In Benin methodology the female goddess of Olokun is the greatest of all deities and gods, she is the goddess of fertility and rebirth.

How did Uhe became Ife.

After the British destroyed Benin in 1897 and Oba Ovonramwen was banished to Calabar, the British wanted to end the dynasty and replaced it with their own appointed representative in the person of Agho Obaseki, great grandfather of the current governor of Edo state. The Benin people resisted insisting that only a prince can become a legitimate Oba in Benin.

Oba Ovonramwen heir, who later became Oba Eweka 2 was in a difficult position and sort alliances with the Alaafin and Ooni of Ife who the British have favoured. This is how Benin former myths were edited/modified to accommodate the Yorubas, Uhe(Virginal/ female birth canal) became Ife in the new created Benin/Ife fairytale.

In the first version of Benin/Ife relationship that was created from Benin myths of creation:

1. Uhe (female birth canal) became Ife.

2. Oba of Benin retains his initial position in the Benin myths as the most senior son to God almighty but this time he was the most senior heir to Oduduwa through Oranmiyan. The Alaafin was the second child to Oranmiyan and the Ooni was their chief priest.

By the reign of Oba Akenzua 2, the Yorubas have modified this myths by elevating the Ooni from chief priest to become the head of all Yoruba Obas. Oba Akenzua 2 was not comfortable with this new arrangement and took his people and mid-west out of the then Western region.

As you can see below, the Benin/Ife relationship was evolved from one of Benin myths of creations, it has nothing to do with reality and real history. This is why there are no historical evidence to support it till 1897 when the it was created.

TAO11 in are limited knowledge of Benin methodology equates Uhe to Ife

TAO11:


Actually they have a number of conflicting creation myths.

One of them --- with the title "Iso Norho" --- specifically mentions Ife as the center of the world from where Edo, Ijaw, and Igbo left to their present location.

It talks about pouring sand over the primordial water-filled earth, about chain from heaven, etc. very similar to the Yoruba creation myth.

I will cite reference to it soon.

Modified --- see below as promised:

"The myth of the pouring sky ("Iso Norho" )

The most popular surviving non-dynastic myth of a common Edo origin is that of Iso Norho, ... .It puts the emergence of the Benin and other -speaking people in a primordial centre, Uhe, a place where problems are heaped before Oghene --- the God of creation --- ... .Uhe is said to have been occupied by Olukumi ("Yoruba" ), Igbon ("Igbo" ) and Uzon ("Ijo" ).

The myth begins by naming Oghene ( God" ) as the father of Iso ("the Sky" ), Ason ("Night" ) and Avan ("Daylight" ). Out of the three children of Oghene, only the eldest son, Iso ("Sky" ), had children; Ame ("Water" ) and Oto ("Earth" ). The children of Oto were Igbon ("Igbo" ), Olukumi ("Yoruba " and Idu ("Edo ". ... .But Oghene did not want the children to suffer undue hardship. By means of a chain he poured sand on the flood water to form dry land for their inhabitants. Thus Uhe ("i.e. old Ife" ) was formed by divine ("Oghene's" ) providence. ...

Idu's children ("Akka, Efa, Emechi" ) had to migrate from Uhe to the present site of Benin City --- then called Ubinu --- where they displaced a group of original settlers, Ivbirinwineko ("dwarfs from the spirit world" ). Memories of these original settlers are preserved in Edo songs and folklore."

Reference:
Roger Blench and Matthew Spriggs: Archaeology and Language I: Theoretical and Methodological Orientations, Taylor & Francis e-Library, 2004, pp.312-313.

KingOKON:
[s]Go get more WEEDs so you will go beyond processing to having an analytic mentality.[/s]

You have just one job:

Show me the European who penetrated from the Atlantic coast to as far as Mali and Burkina-Faso during the “Ogane” period.

Do o your one job NOW. ❤️

TAO12:


You have just one job:

Show me the European who penetrated from the Atlantic coast to as far as Mali and Burkina-Faso during the “Ogane” period.

Do o your one job NOW. ❤️

.

Ogane imaginary period.... Read up my earlier post more carefully while smoking ya immortal weed

KingOKON:
.


For the above NONSENSE I score you 2 outta 10. Honestly, you are truly a WEED smoking goat.

Every 14 year old kid knows about the lander brothers, but your crack smoking WEED head knows nothing about Kongo River and the voyages made by several explorers and the years.

If Maps of Timbuktu in Mali, Sosso in Burkina Faso were drawn as early as 1375 and the myths of Niger/ Kongo Rivers having a common source drawing many explorers long before Mungo Park( he never traced it he died half way) was born could lure men, what then could have stop men wanting to see the Suzerain of the Oba of the Benin kingdom. The king with no army and "eyes dare not see" for over 400 years?

O[gh]oni Dominion, the latinized name of Ogane is more Yoruba than I expected what a wonder. Plz I want to see this map with immediate alacrity, a suzerain that doesn't exist in the timeline of Africa , West Africa, Nigeria only in a bush in southwest Nigeria brought to limelight by a politician and dubious wannabes village self acclaimed historians seeking to be relevant in African history.
If the first University was cited outside of Ibadan do you think we will be having this jargons of a chitchat.


The Oba was known in the Royals court of Europe and discussed, till tomorrow the Royal family in Lagos can only dissuss the Oba and not the Ooni ditto Onitsha, Warri, Agbor and numerous tribes.
The British sacked Benin while Abeokuta Ibadan and Ilorin rolled over not a mention of ile Ife was ever made anywhere not to talk of any " eyes dare not see" king that you WEED smoking goats claim to have been reported in the courts/ cities of Europe for over 400years.

The Europeans that met with Chiefs in Badagry, EKO, Abeokuta, Ijebu Ibadan never reported any "eyes dare not see" King. In the entire Benin Kingdom nobody knew of such nonsense even the very next door neighborhood of Modakeke till tomorrow don't and never knew of such IMMORTAL king, it is in the court of the Oba of Benin whose kingdom the world knows that it was only reported for 400years
Continue smoking your weed and be spinning history to comfort yourself

My brother you are harsh, if you continue like this you are going to reduced TAO11 to tears, that is if it has not already happened. Look at how you just walked all over her pet project like a piece of cake.

All her hours of research, copy and paste gone like a smoke. At this rate, she may not last long on nairaland, if she derail who are we going to be using to have fun on nairaland.

TAO12:


You have just one job:

Show me the European who penetrated from the Atlantic coast to as far as Mali and Burkina-Faso during the “Ogane” period.

Do o your one job NOW. ❤️

.

Ogane imaginary period.... Read up my earlier post more carefully while smoking ya immortal weed

samuk:


My brother you are harsh, if you continue like this you are going to reduced TAO11 to tears, that is if it has not already happened. Look at how you just walked all over her pet project like a piece of cake.

All her hours of research, copy and paste gone like a smoke. At this rate, she may not last long on nairaland, if she derail who are we going to be using to have fun on nairaland.

.

Nonsense thesis, research and works that will only get favor in the southwest universities
Come and summit such jargons in Unical UniBen or UniPort

This must be CRAP-V-9-2-4-A-M. Isn’t it?

samuk:
[s]The significance of Uhe in Benin mythology.

Uhe in Benin means female reproductive part or virginal.

In Benin methodology, it's believed that Uhe is the passage from which God almighty sends his children to the world.

Uhe was never a geographical location in Benin myths of creation, it was certainly not Ife.

In Benin methodology the female goddess of Olokun is the greatest of all deities and gods, she is the goddess of fertility and rebirth.

How did Uhe became Ife.

After the British destroyed Benin in 1897 and Oba Ovonramwen was banished to Calabar, the British wanted to end the dynasty and replaced it with their own appointed representative in the person of Agho Obaseki, great grandfather of the current governor of Edo state. The Benin people resisted insisting that only a prince can become a legitimate Oba in Benin.

Oba Ovonramwen heir, who later became Oba Eweka 2 was in a difficult position and sort alliances with the Alaafin and Ooni of Ife who the British have favoured. This is how Benin former myths were edited/modified to accommodate the Yorubas, Uhe(Virginal/ female birth canal) became Ife in the new created Benin/Ife fairytale.

In the first version of Benin/Ife relationship that was created from Benin myths of creation:

1. Uhe (female birth canal) became Ife.

2. Oba of Benin retains his initial position in the Benin myths as the most senior son to God almighty but this time he was the most senior heir to Oduduwa through Oranmiyan. The Alaafin was the second child to Oranmiyan and the Ooni was their chief priest.

By the reign of Oba Akenzua 2, the Yorubas have modified this myths by elevating the Ooni from chief priest to become the head of all Yoruba Obas. Oba Akenzua 2 was not comfortable with this new arrangement and took his people and mid-west out of the then Western region.

As you can see below, the Benin/Ife relationship was evolved from one of Benin myths of creations, it has nothing to do with reality and real history. This is why there are no historical evidence to support it till 1897 when the it was created.

TAO11 in are limited knowledge of Benin methodology equates Uhe to Ife[/s]

You’ve proven yourself for the umpteenth time to be a resolute fraud.

The “e” in this “Uhe” is as in “egg” NOT as in “eight”.

As such, using actual diacritic symbol/IPA symbol, it is: Uhẹ/Uhɛ

Your Bini dictionary as attached below also exposes you as a blatant Janus-face, fatuous, little fraud.

Reference:
H. Melzian, A Concise Dictionary of the Bini Language of Southern Nigeria.

Why should I read your crap twice?

I need an answer.

KingOKON:
[s]Ogane imaginary period.... Read up my earlier post more carefully while smoking ya immortal weed [/s]

Okon with the wonderfully-low IQ:

You have just one job:

Show me the European who penetrated from the Atlantic coast to as far as Mali and Burkina-Faso during the “Ogane” period.

Do your one job NOW. ❤️

KingOKON:
[s]How about Kongo? If only u have an idea of the amount of rubbish you cook daily[/s]

The kingdom of Kongo which the Portuguese had interactions with in the late-1400s, etc. is a kingdom on the coast of central Africa, oh you dummy.