1Sharon:


Why are you now being disingenuous and narrowing down the definition of blasphemy?

Is blasphemy only the dismissal of deities?

Blasphemy also involves disrespecting what is held SACRED.

If that wasn't the case, why is it considered blasphemy to mock Mohammed?? Is Mohammed a GOD??


My point still stands. In Hinduism and Christianity, YOU are considered a blasphemer because you do not respect what THEIR RELIGION HOLDS SACRED.

What you FEEL about the divinity of Jesus is irrelevant.

The Christians FEEL a different way about Jesus than you do.

And you not acknowledging Jesus as God and calling him a prophet and continuing to consume beef is considered blasphemous to Christians and Hindus respectively.
My point again stands.

And you are wrong. Hindus do have a concept of blasphemy. The cow is not god but is sacred to them. Consuming the cow is considered sacrilege
The difference between you Muslims and Hindus is that they won't put you to death for desecrating what they hold as sacred.


What the Bible says about blasphemy? Do Christians have laws in place to kill people for blasphemy or have they reformed their beliefs?

That's another difference between Christians and Muslims. They don't operate on autopilot like Muslims when it comes to beliefs. Islam is called backward for a reason.


Now is Islam truly peaceful when people can be put to death for holding minority beliefs?

Why did you call me islamoohobic when Islamists display phobia to the minorities among them?

You are right, we are both right in this case. Blasphemy also involves disrespecting what is held sacred and no. Muhammad (SAW) is not God.
Hindus have a concept of blasphemy? I am not wrong sister but you are. If they do then what is it? Give me proof.
What is it that Christianity holds sacred that the Muslims disrespect?
Is it Jesus? The Muslims not only believe in Jesus but also love, respect and honor him by following his teachings. Anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus is not considered a Muslim.
Or is it Mary the mother of Jesus? There is a chapter in the Quran dedicated to her (Quran 19). Muslims also love and respect her.
We name our children after them.

Yes Christians do have law in place to kill people for blasphemy. See Leviticus 24:16 "And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death".
Except if you don't consider the words of the Bible as laws of course.

If following the scripture is your definition of backward then yes, Islam is backward.

Muslims display phobia to the minorities among them? This is a misconception. Have you ever been to the northern part of Nigeria where Muslims are the majority? (I take it you're Nigerian) if you haven't, ask those youth corp members who served or are serving in the north or the Igbos and Yoruba non-Muslims who resides and own businesses in the north. The Muslims are generally peaceful and loving people.


And I'm glad we're having this conversation.

FarinJini:
You are right, we are both right in this case. Blasphemy also involves disrespecting what is held sacred and no. Muhammad (SAW) is not God.
Hindus have a concept of blasphemy? I am not wrong sister but you are. If they do then what is it? Give me proof.
What is it that Christianity holds sacred that the Muslims disrespect?
Is it Jesus? The Muslims not only believe in Jesus but also love, respect and honor him by following his teachings. Anyone who doesn't believe in Jesus is not considered a Muslim.
Or is the Mary the mother of Jesus? There is a chapter in the Quran dedicated to her (Quran 19). Muslims also love and respect her.
We name our children after them.

Yes Christians do have law in place to kill people for blasphemy. See Leviticus 24:16 "And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death".
Except if you don't consider the words of the Bible as laws of course.

If following the scripture is your definition of backward then yes, Islam is backward.

Muslims display phobia to the minorities among them? This is a misconception. Have you ever been to the northern part of Nigeria where Muslims are the minority? (I take it you're Nigerian) if you haven't, ask those who youth corp members who served or are serving in the north or the Igbos and Yoruba non-Muslims who resides and own businesses in the north. The Muslims are generally peaceful and loving people.


And I'm glad we're having this conversation.

Hindu proof of blasphemy ? I just told you. They hold the cow sacred and don't consume it. Eating beef around them is considered disrespectful. Nigerians that work with Indians have confirmed this. Indians are mainly vegetarian.

As you kill and eat meat for your eid festivals just know you're offending a Hindu.

But do they have laws in place to kill you for doing so? That's the difference between you and them.

Christians and Muslims both believe in Jesus but Muslims don't venerate him as Christians do. To say Jesus is a prophet is disrespectful to Christians.

Thanks for confirming Islam is backward and not compatible with a modern society.

Don't dare label ppl islamophobic when you suppress and kill the minorities among you.


Muhammed Bala is an atheist man that has been imprisoned in the North, where is the tolerance?
When Muslims are the minority they are very concerned with rights. When they become the majority, nobody has any rights.

1Sharon:


Hindu proof of blasphemy ? I just told you. They hold the cow sacred and don't consume it. Eating beef around them is considered disrespectful. Nigerians that work with Indians have confirmed this. Indians are mainly vegetarian.

As you kill and eat meat for your eid festivals just know you're offending a Hindu.

But do they have laws in place to kill you for doing so? That's the difference between you and them.

Christians and Muslims both believe in Jesus but Muslims don't venerate him as Christians do. To say Jesus is a prophet is disrespectful to Christians.

Thanks for confirming Islam is backward and not compatible with a modern society.

Don't dare label ppl islamophobic when you suppress and kill the minorities among you.


Muhammed Bala is an atheist man that has been imprisoned in the North, where is the tolerance?
When Muslims are the minority they are very concerned with rights. When they become the majority, nobody has any rights.

I hear you but you've not given me any proof from any scripture. There's
The Bible for Christianity, The Quran And The Hadiths for Islam, The Vedas And The Upanishads for Hinduism, The Tipitaka for Buddhism or The Tanakh And The Talmud for Judaism. Any of these scriptures at all.
You said there's a concept for blasphemy in Hinduism but you have failed to provide a proof for your assertion. I told you about the law of blasphemy according to the Bible and you said nothing about it. Your only concern is that Muslims kill people for blasphemy but you fail to understand that killing people for blasphemy is not a sin according to the Bible.
Islam is backward only according to your definition which is adhering to the scripture.
Islam is not compatible with a modern society? Islam is not only compatible with the modern society, it was also compatible with the ancient society and even with the future. Islam is also compatible with science.

FarinJini:
I hear you but you've not given me any proof from any scripture. There's
The Bible for Christianity, The Quran And The Hadiths for Islam, The Vedas And The Upanishads for Hinduism, The Tipitaka for Buddhism or The Tanakh And The Talmud for Judaism. Any of these scriptures at all.
You said there's a concept for blasphemy in Hinduism but you have failed to provide a proof for your assertion. I told you about the law of blasphemy according to the Bible and you said nothing about it. Your only concern is that Muslims kill people for blasphemy but you fail to understand that killing people for blasphemy is not a sin according to the Bible.
Islam is backward only according to your definition which is adhering to the scripture.
Islam is not compatible with a modern society? Islam is not only compatible with the modern society, it was also compatible with the ancient society and even with the future. Islam is also compatible with science.

I just told you? I'm not aware of any scriptures but go and ask any Indian why they don't eat beef. They hold the cow sacred.



Go and and read up about Hinduism and it's various deities. You don't need scriptures to learn a religion.

What the Bible considers blasphemy is not the same as what you Muslims consider blasphemy.

Where are Christian laws in reality that punish people with death for perceived blasphemy? Do they follow the Bible blindly or has Christianity been REFORMED?

Correction islam is incompatible with western civilization and society because there is intolerance and no freedom of speech.

Islam is compatible with science? Does science say horses can fly?

1Sharon:


I just told you? I'm not aware of any scriptures but go and ask any Indian why they don't eat beef. They hold the cow sacred.



Go and and read up about Hinduism and it's various deities. You don't need scriptures to learn a religion.

What the Bible considers blasphemy is not the same as what you Muslims consider blasphemy.

Where are Christian laws in reality that punish people with death for perceived blasphemy? Do they follow the Bible blindly or has Christianity been REFORMED?

Correction islam is incompatible with western civilization and society because there is intolerance and no freedom of speech.

Islam is compatible with science? Does science say horses can fly?

You're not aware of any scriptures but I should ask an Indian? I don't know any Indian and even if I do, am I to take your word or that of a random Indian as the gospel truth? I know better.
You do need scriptures to learn religions. At least that's what Islam taught me. You don't just do things because you think they're right or cool or because many people are doing it. You do things because the scripture teaches and permits you to do them. Now that's the difference between Islam and other religions.
What the Bible considers blasphemy is not the same thing as what Islam considers? Really? Please enlighten me. You may have a different definition of blasphemy which I don't know about. And what does the Bible considers as blasphemy?
Is there anything as "follow the Bible blindly"? I'm sure you do know that to follow blindly means you do something without thinking for yourself whether what you are doing is right or wrong. Are you insinuating that something can be in the Bible and also the morally wrong or unethical at the same time?
Blasphemy is not freedom of speech anywhere in the world. You can't hurt people because you are exercising your freedom.
No. Science does not say horses can fly but scientists agree that almost everything, from relativity, quantum mechanics, Big Bang theory, black holes and pulsars, genetics, embryology, modern geology, thermodynamics, even the laser and hydrogen fuel cells, have been 'found' in the Quran, which was revealed over a thousand years ago. In fact, Muslims were modern long before the modern world and modern science. If you still think otherwise, read this book The Bible, the Quran and Science by Maurice Bucaille.
Here's a link to the PDF http://www.islamicbook.ws › ...PDF
The Bible,The Qur'an and Science - islamicbook

FarinJini:
You're not aware of any scriptures but I should ask an Indian? I don't know any Indian and even if I do, am I to take your word or that of a random Indian as the gospel truth? I know better.
You do need scriptures to learn religions. At least that's what Islam taught me. You don't just do things because you think they're right or cool or because many people are doing it. You do things because the scripture teaches and permits you to do them. Now that's the difference between Islam and other religions.
What the Bible considers blasphemy is not the same thing as what Islam considers? Really? Please enlighten me. You may have a different definition of blasphemy which I don't know about. And what does the Bible considers as blasphemy?
Is there anything as "follow the Bible blindly"? I'm sure you do know that to follow blindly means you do something without thinking for yourself whether what you are doing is right or wrong. Are you insinuating that something can be in the Bible and also the morally wrong or unethical at the same time?
Blasphemy is not freedom of speech anywhere in the world. You can't hurt people because you are exercising your freedom.
No. Science does not say horses can fly but scientists agree that almost everything, from relativity, quantum mechanics, Big Bang theory, black holes and pulsars, genetics, embryology, modern geology, thermodynamics, even the laser and hydrogen fuel cells, have been 'found' in the Quran, which was revealed over a thousand years ago.

Are you dumb? If you don't have an Indian around you can't you read sources? Knowledge is literally at your finger tips. Stop the foolish questions Abeg.Why would an Indian lie to you about his religion? Oh you think Hindus engage in al-taqqiya like you Muslims are taught to do?

Blasphemy is not freedom of speech? Oh really? So why is this right suppressed in Islamic countries? Can I say whatever I want about Mohammed in a Sharia country??

Exactly. Science doesn't say horses can fly but apparently Mohammed rode a flying horse to heaven? Does science agree with that?

I see how you ignored my point on Muhammed Bala. Peaceful north my foot.

1Sharon:


Are you dumb? If you don't have an Indian around you can't you read sources? Knowledge is literally at your finger tips. Stop the foolish questions Abeg.Why would an Indian lie to you about his religion? Oh you think Hindus engage in al-taqqiya like you Muslims are taught to do?

Blasphemy is not freedom of speech? Oh really? So why is this right suppressed in Islamic countries? Can I say whatever I want about Mohammed in a Sharia country??

Exactly. Science doesn't say horses can fly but apparently Mohammed rode a flying horse to heaven? Does science agree with that?

I see how you ignored my point on Muhammed Bala. Peaceful north my foot.

if you don't mind me asking, are you a Christian? Do you believe that Jesus died on the cross and is still going to come back? Does science agree with that?
Science doesn't have to agree with everything. But fine, if science doesn't agree with the prophet going to heaven, science does agrees with every other thing I mentioned above and more and they're all in the Quran.
Blasphemy is a right? C'mon!
Knowledge is indeed at our fingertips and you couldn't access the "knowledge at your fingertip" and give me scriptural proof of your assertions.
Why would an Indian lie to me about his religion? You're really asking this question? I see you have no point at all.
You've failed to answer my questions. You tagged them "foolish questions" only because you have no answer.
And I don't know anything about the Muhammed Bala you were talking about that's why I ignored it.
Do have a lovely night.

FarinJini:
if you don't mind me asking, are you a Christian? Do you believe that Jesus died on the cross and is still going to come back? Does science agree with that?
Science doesn't have to agree with everything. But fine, if science doesn't agree with the prophet going to heaven, science does agrees with every other thing I mentioned above and more and they're all in the Quran.
Blasphemy is a right? C'mon!
Knowledge is indeed at our fingertips and you couldn't access the "knowledge at your fingertip" and give me scriptural proof of your assertions.
Why would an Indian lie to me about his religion? You're really asking this question? I see you have no point at all.
You've failed to answer my questions. You tagged them "foolish questions" only because you have no answer.
Do have a lovely night.

I already said I'm not a Christian.
'Science doesn't have to agree with everything'
Then your Qur'an isn't compatable with science as you claimed.


'Blasphemy as a right' Then you are not for free speech as you claimed.

As I explained before blasphemy is subjective and we are all blasphemers according to some religion.The person mocking Mohammed doesn't give a damn about him like you do. He is only a blasphemer according to you Muslims.

The same way you don't respect the cow like Hindus do. If someone is to die for mocking your prophet. You should have also been dead along time ago for eating beef. But thankfully no other religion is like Islam.

You're grasping at straws at this point.

My initial premise is that Islam is not a peaceful and tolerant religion if it kills people for leaving the faith, for being gay or for what they perceive as blasphemy. PERIOD.

1Sharon:


I already said I'm not a Christian.
'Science doesn't have to agree with everything'
Then your Qur'an isn't compatable with science as you claimed.


'Blasphemy as a right' Then you are not for free speech as you claimed.

As I explained before blasphemy is subjective and we are all blasphemers according to some religion.The person mocking Mohammed doesn't give a damn about him like you do. He is only a blasphemer according to you Muslims.

The same way you don't respect the cow like Hindus do. If someone is to die for mocking your prophet. You should have also been dead along time ago for eating beef. But thankfully no other religion is like Islam.

You're grasping at straws at this point.

My initial premise is that Islam is not a peaceful and tolerant religion if it kills people for leaving the faith, for being gay or for what they perceive as blasphemy. PERIOD.

I'll make it easier for you.
1. You're saying Muslims are blasphemous and I gave you proof why Muslims can never be blasphemous: Quran 6:108.

2. You said it is a blasphemy to a Christian for saying Jesus is not God and I also gave you proof from the Bible and Quran that says otherwise:
Mark 12:29
Romans 1:21-23
Romans 1:25
Quran 4:171

3. You said there's a concept for blasphemy in Hinduism but you failed to provide a proof from any scripture that says so.

4. On the punishment for blasphemy, I gave you proof of the Christian punishment (Death penalty): Leviticus 24:16. But you're already so engrossed in your hatred for Islam that you can't even understand that not only Islam permits death penalty for blasphemy. If you hate Islam for killing people for blasphemy you should hate Christianity too for Leviticus 24:16.

5. I again asked you what the Christians hold sacred that the Muslims disrespect but you again failed to mention anything but that didn't stop me from giving you an evidence why Muslims can't disrespect Jesus or Mary: Chapter 19 of the Quran, Surah Maryam. Just so you know, Jesus is one of the most mentioned people in the Quran by reference; 25 times by the name Isa, third-person 48 times, first-person 35 times and the rest as titles.

6. You said what the Bible considers as blasphemy is different from what Islam considers as blasphemy but you fail to tell me what it is that is considered as blasphemy according to the Bible.

7. You said and I quote "Do they (Christians) follow the Bible blindly or has Christianity been REFORMED?" and I pointed out to you that to "follow blindly" means to do something without thinking for yourself if what you're doing is right or wrong. Then I asked you if you're insinuating that the Bible contains something that is unethical and morally wrong but again, you couldn't answer.

8. You said Islam is not in conformity with science because science does not say horses can fly but you fail to refute the fact that world renowned scientists agree that almost everything, from relativity, quantum mechanics, Big Bang theory, black holes and pulsars, genetics, embryology, modern geology, thermodynamics, even the laser and hydrogen fuel cells, have been found in the Quran.
I also pointed out that if you say Islam is not in conformity with science just because horses don't fly then is Christianity in conformity with science for saying the same Jesus who "died" on the cross will be coming back to the world again?

You said I am grasping at straws but common sense says the reverse is the case.

It is your word against the scriptures and simple logic here.

Breakfast is served girl. You can give it up now. But in case you still don't comprehend and you're not convinced after all these facts presented to you, then I understand why and I don't blame you because the Quran says:
"Their example is that of one who kindled a fire, but when it illuminated what was around him, Allah took away their light and left them in darkness [so] they could not see.
Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return [to the right path]".
Quran 2:17-18.
Cheers.

mynd44
seun
Dominique
Ishilove
Lalasticlala
Could you please move this thread to front page already? Not because of the OP but because 1Sharon obviously needs help and because I need people with highly developed intellect to give answers to the questions I raised. Thank you.

1Sharon:


Lol you must think you special.

I'll be back to reply your drivel later. You really thought you did something.

You make me laugh. You really do. Drivel? Girl please! This "drivel" right here is giving you a hard time. And you know I did something especially with the facts. Patiently waiting for you to reply and please don't disappoint me, come with something solid.
As always, I hope you have a lovely day. Peace be onto you.

FarinJini:
I'll make it easier for you.
1. You're saying Muslims are blasphemous and I gave you proof why Muslims can never be blasphemous: Quran 6:108.

2. You said it is a blasphemy to a Christian for saying Jesus is not God and I also gave you proof from the Bible and Quran that says otherwise:
Mark 12:29
Romans 1:21-23
Romans 1:25
Quran 4:171

3. You said there's a concept for blasphemy in Hinduism but you failed to provide a proof from any scripture that says so.

4. On the punishment for blasphemy, I gave you proof of the Christian punishment (Death penalty): Leviticus 24:16. But you're already so engrossed in your hatred for Islam that you can't even understand that not only Islam permits death penalty for blasphemy. If you hate Islam for killing people for blasphemy you should hate Christianity too for Leviticus 24:16.

5. I again asked you what the Christians hold sacred that the Muslims disrespect but you again failed to mention anything but that didn't stop me from giving you an evidence why Muslims can't disrespect Jesus or Mary: Chapter 19 of the Quran, Surah Maryam. Just so you know, Jesus is one of the most mentioned people in the Quran by reference; 25 times by the name Isa, third-person 48 times, first-person 35 times and the rest as titles.

6. You said what the Bible considers as blasphemy is different from what Islam considers as blasphemy but you fail to tell me what it is that is considered as blasphemy according to the Bible.

7. You said and I quote "Do they (Christians) follow the Bible blindly or has Christianity been REFORMED?" and I pointed out to you that to "follow blindly" means to do something without thinking for yourself if what you're doing is right or wrong. Then I asked you if you're insinuating that the Bible contains something that is unethical and morally wrong but again, you couldn't answer.

8. You said Islam is not in conformity with science because science does not say horses can fly but you fail to refute the fact that world renowned scientists agree that almost everything, from relativity, quantum mechanics, Big Bang theory, black holes and pulsars, genetics, embryology, modern geology, thermodynamics, even the laser and hydrogen fuel cells, have been found in the Quran.
I also pointed out that if you say Islam is not in conformity with science just because horses don't fly then is Christianity in conformity with science for saying the same Jesus who "died" on the cross will be coming back to the world again?

You said I am grasping at straws but common sense says the reverse is the case.

It is your word against the scriptures and simple logic here.

Breakfast is served girl. You can give it up now. But in case you still don't comprehend and you're not convinced after all these facts presented to you, then I understand why and I don't blame you because the Quran says:
"Their example is that of one who kindled a fire, but when it illuminated what was around him, Allah took away their light and left them in darkness [so] they could not see.
Deaf, dumb and blind - so they will not return [to the right path]".
Quran 2:17-18.
Cheers.

Can you listen to how dumb you sound? Are you now going to tell me it's not blasphemous for a Muslim to burn down a church because no where does the Bible say 'dont burn chruches' therefore keeping burning away??

I'm not debating whether Jesus is God with you, I couldn't care less. That's not what our argument is about. Our argument is how blasphemy is subjective. So why do Muslims have laws with harsh punishments for it. And this is evidence how Islam is not truly peaceful and tolerant. If you kill someone for blasphemy, you deserve to be killed too.

Your Muslim interpretation of the bible is irrelevant. Christians find it OFFENSIVE when you call Jesus a prophet period. because according to THEIR interpretation he is a GOD.

If Christians are to accept your muslim Interpretation of the bible. Are you willing to accept their CHRISTIAN Interpretation of the Qur'an or the hadith? You're a big hypocrite aren't you?

How did I know you Muslims find it blasphemous to mock Mohammed when I never went into the Qur'an? I'm going off the way you Muslims REACT and have LAWS about how to speak about him. That's how I bloody know!
You also need to go off the way Hindu Indians react to cows being eaten and killed to know they find it OFFENSIVE. And why the majority of them are vegetarian.

I'm fully aware of the violence in the Bible.
But is there an equivalence where Christian countries with Christian laws kill people in their society for blasphemy? As is done in the Islamic world?
How many Christian countries are killing apostates, blasphemers and homosexuals?

Back to my Initial premise. Muslims cannot say Islam is a religion of peace when apostasy and blasphemy laws exist.

1Sharon:


Can you listen to how dumb you sound? Are you now going to tell me it's not blasphemous for a Muslim to burn down a church because no where does the Bible say 'dont burn chruches' therefore keeping burning away??

I'm not debating whether Jesus is God with you, I couldn't care less. That's not what our argument is about. Our argument is how blasphemy is subjective. So why do Muslims have laws with harsh punishments for it. And this is evidence how Islam is not truly peaceful and tolerant. If you kill someone for blasphemy, you deserve to be killed too.

Your Muslim interpretation of the bible is irrelevant. Christians find it OFFENSIVE when you call Jesus a prophet period. because according to THEIR interpretation he is a GOD.

If Christians are to accept your muslim Interpretation of the bible. Are you willing to accept their CHRISTIAN Interpretation of the Qur'an or the hadith? You're a big hypocrite aren't you?

How did I know you Muslims find it blasphemous to mock Mohammed when I never went into the Qur'an? I'm going off the way you Muslims REACT and have LAWS about how to speak about him. That's how I bloody know!
You also need to go off the way Hindu Indians react to cows being eaten and killed to know they find it OFFENSIVE. And why the majority of them are vegetarian.

I'm fully aware of the violence in the Bible.
But is there an equivalence where Christian countries with Christian laws kill people in their society for blasphemy? As is done in the Islamic world?
How many Christian countries are killing apostates, blasphemers and homosexuals?

Back to my Initial premise. Muslims cannot say Islam is a religion of peace when apostasy and blasphemy laws exist.

Girl I'm utterly disappointed in you, to say the least. I was really expecting a reply with an evidence based approach with a cogent argument and references but no! You chose to gibber. You've just wasted my time. You missed the mark girl. You are obviously very far below my expectations.

FarinJini:
Girl I'm utterly disappointed in you, to say the least. I was really expecting a reply with an evidence based approach with a cogent argument and references but no! You chose to gibber. You've just wasted my time. You missed the mark girl. You are obviously very far below my expectations.

What references? your holey books?
LOL just say you don't know how to respond and call it a day.

FarinJini:
Girl I'm utterly disappointed in you, to say the least. I was really expecting a reply with an evidence based approach with a cogent argument and references but no! You chose to gibber. You've just wasted my time. You missed the mark girl. You are obviously very far below my expectations.

Right. Something from the Qur'an that is offensive to Christians.

Muslims believe that Jesus as a spoke as baby. That right there is offensive to Christians because it implies a supernatural element about him.

And you Muslims don't like telling Christians that fact, why is that?

1Sharon:



Right. Something from the Qur'an that is offensive to Christians.

Muslims believe that Jesus as a spoke as baby. That right there is offensive to Christians because it implies a supernatural element about him.

And you Muslims don't like telling Christians that fact, why is that?

sorry I don't understand. Seems like a typo. Could you please rephrase?

FarinJini:
sorry I don't understand. Seems like a typo. Could you please rephrase?

Muslims believe that Jesus spoke as a baby. That right there is offensive to Christians because it implies a supernatural element about him.

1Sharon:


Muslims believe that Jesus spoke as a baby. That right there is offensive to Christians because it implies a supernatural element about him.

okay I get it now. "Offensive because it implies a supernatural element about him": I never knew the Christians find this offensive. By the way, there's indeed a supernatural element about Jesus.
Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel".
His birth is supernatural. He was not conceived through mating unlike you and I and everyone else. I believe you'll agree with me that it is "supernatural" for a virgin to give birth to a child.

About him speaking as a baby, it is not explained in the Bible (at least none that I know of) but the Quran explains this in chapter 19.
Just imagine, Mary, mother of Jesus, in a very conservative and religious community. She is from a well known family. A daughter of a priest, and has spent most of her life in the Temple. This virtuous, saintly, unmarried woman arrives carrying her child, in front of people who knew her and her family very well. How can she prove her innocence? Would anyone believe her? What on earth is she going to do? She needed a miracle. Only a miracle could vindicate Mary in front of the people. She needed a miracle, and that is precisely what she got. A great miracle:
It was baby Jesus, still in the cradle, who spoke to the crowd, defending his mother, and vindicating her for ever, and dispelling any doubt about her purity.
This is how the whole scene is beautifully described in the Quran:

Quran 19 vs 16-35:
(19:16) (O Muhammad), recite in the Book the account of Mary, when she withdrew from her people to a place towards the east;
(19:17) and drew a curtain, screening herself from people whereupon We sent to her Our spirit and he appeared to her as a well-shaped man.
(19:18) Mary exclaimed: "I surely take refuge from you with the Most Compassionate Lord, if you are at all God-fearing."
(19:19) He said: "I am just a message-bearer of your Lord, I have come to grant you a most pure boy."
(19:20) Mary said: "How can a boy be born to me when no man has even touched me, nor have I ever been unchaste?"
(19:21) The angel said: "Thus shall it be. Your Lord says: 'It is easy for Me; and We shall do so in order to make him a Sign for mankind and a mercy from Us. This has been decreed.' "
(19:22) Then she conceived him and withdrew with him to a far-off place.
(19:23) Then the birth pangs drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree and she said: "Oh, would that I had died before this and had been all forgotten."
(19:24) Thereupon the angel below her cried out: "Grieve not, for your Lord has caused a stream of water to flow beneath you.
(19:25) Shake the trunk of the palm-tree towards yourself and fresh and ripe dates shall fall upon you.
(19:26) So eat and drink and cool your eyes; and if you see any person say to him: 'Verily I have vowed a fast to the Most Compassionate Lord, and so I shall not speak to anyone today.' "
(19:27) Then she came to her people, carrying her baby. They said: "O Mary! You have committed a monstrous thing.
(19:28) O sister of Aaron! Your father was not an evil man, nor was your mother an unchaste woman."
(19:29) Thereupon Mary pointed to the child. They exclaimed: "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle, a mere child?"
(19:30) The child cried out: "Verily I am Allah's servant. He has granted me the Book and has made me a Prophet
(19:31) and has blessed me wherever I might be and has enjoined upon me Prayer and Zakah (purifying alms) as long as I live;
(19:32) and has made me dutiful to my mother. He has not made me oppressive, nor bereft of God's blessings.
(19:33) Peace be upon me the day I was born and the day I will die, and the day I will be raised up alive."
(19:34) This is Jesus, the son of Mary; and this is the truth about him concerning which they are in doubt.
(19:35) It does not befit Allah to take for Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing He only says: "Be" and it is.

This is the reason the Muslims believe Jesus spoke as a baby.

FarinJini:
okay I get it now. "Offensive because it implies a supernatural element about him": I never knew the Christians find this offensive. By the way, there's indeed a supernatural element about Jesus.
Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel".
His birth is supernatural. He was not conceived through mating unlike you and I and everyone else. I believe you'll agree with me that it is "supernatural" for a virgin to give birth to a child.

About him speaking as a baby, it is not explained in the Bible (at least none that I know of) but the Quran explains this in chapter 19.
Just imagine, Mary, mother of Jesus, in a very conservative and religious community. She is from a well known family. A daughter of a priest, and has spent most of her life in the Temple. This virtuous, saintly, unmarried woman arrives carrying her child, in front of people who knew her and her family very well. How can she prove her innocence? Would anyone believe her? What on earth is she going to do? She needed a miracle. Only a miracle could vindicate Mary in front of the people. She needed a miracle, and that is precisely what she got. A great miracle:
It was baby Jesus, still in the cradle, who spoke to the crowd, defending his mother, and vindicating her for ever, and dispelling any doubt about her purity.
This is how the whole scene is beautifully described in the Quran:

Quran 19 vs 16-35:
(19:16) (O Muhammad), recite in the Book the account of Mary, when she withdrew from her people to a place towards the east;
(19:17) and drew a curtain, screening herself from people whereupon We sent to her Our spirit and he appeared to her as a well-shaped man.
(19:18) Mary exclaimed: "I surely take refuge from you with the Most Compassionate Lord, if you are at all God-fearing."
(19:19) He said: "I am just a message-bearer of your Lord, I have come to grant you a most pure boy."
(19:20) Mary said: "How can a boy be born to me when no man has even touched me, nor have I ever been unchaste?"
(19:21) The angel said: "Thus shall it be. Your Lord says: 'It is easy for Me; and We shall do so in order to make him a Sign for mankind and a mercy from Us. This has been decreed.' "
(19:22) Then she conceived him and withdrew with him to a far-off place.
(19:23) Then the birth pangs drove her to the trunk of a palm-tree and she said: "Oh, would that I had died before this and had been all forgotten."
(19:24) Thereupon the angel below her cried out: "Grieve not, for your Lord has caused a stream of water to flow beneath you.
(19:25) Shake the trunk of the palm-tree towards yourself and fresh and ripe dates shall fall upon you.
(19:26) So eat and drink and cool your eyes; and if you see any person say to him: 'Verily I have vowed a fast to the Most Compassionate Lord, and so I shall not speak to anyone today.' "
(19:27) Then she came to her people, carrying her baby. They said: "O Mary! You have committed a monstrous thing.
(19:28) O sister of Aaron! Your father was not an evil man, nor was your mother an unchaste woman."
(19:29) Thereupon Mary pointed to the child. They exclaimed: "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle, a mere child?"
(19:30) The child cried out: "Verily I am Allah's servant. He has granted me the Book and has made me a Prophet
(19:31) and has blessed me wherever I might be and has enjoined upon me Prayer and Zakah (purifying alms) as long as I live;
(19:32) and has made me dutiful to my mother. He has not made me oppressive, nor bereft of God's blessings.
(19:33) Peace be upon me the day I was born and the day I will die, and the day I will be raised up alive."
(19:34) This is Jesus, the son of Mary; and this is the truth about him concerning which they are in doubt.
(19:35) It does not befit Allah to take for Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing He only says: "Be" and it is.

This is the reason the Muslims believe Jesus spoke as a baby.

Now you know. It is seen as heretic to tell Christians Jesus spoke as a baby.

So this is why blasphemy is subjective and we are all blasphemers according to one religion or another.

Now does any Christian society have blasphemy laws in place?

If someone mocks Mohammed that is blasphemy to YOU. but not to the mocker.

Your religious beliefs are special to YOU only.

1Sharon:


Now you know. It is seen as heretic to tell Christians Jesus spoke as a baby.

So this is why blasphemy is subjective and we are all blasphemers according to one religion or another.

Now does any Christian society have blasphemy laws in place?

If someone mocks Mohammed that is blasphemy to YOU. but not to the mocker.

Your religious beliefs are special to YOU only.

You are the first person telling me this is offensive to the Christians. I have so many Christian friends and neighbours and we do have discussions like this and they've never mentioned anything that is even remotely close to finding this offensive. And you said you're not a Christian so tell me, is it really the Christians that finds it offensive or it's just you?
Jesus is indeed supernatural even according to the Bible. And we (Muslims) believe in the Quran completely. The Quran tells us that Jesus spoke as a baby and that's why we believe it. We didn't just come up with a story to defame Jesus. The Quran explains it as a miracle and we believe it to be the first miracle of Jesus so what's there to be offended about? His birth was miraculous and He performed many miracles. There is nothing blasphemous about saying he spoke as a baby because even the aim or motive for saying so it to show how special he is and not to smear him.

You said "we are all blasphemers according to one religion or another". I disagree with you. This is completely wrong. If you don't mind sharing, it'll help me to give you better examples that you can relate to if I know your religious beliefs.

FarinJini:
You are the first person telling me this is offensive to the Christians. I have so many Christian friends and neighbours and we do have discussions like this and they've never mentioned anything that is even remotely close to finding this offensive. And you said you're not a Christian so tell me, is it really the Christians that finds it offensive or it's just you?
Jesus is indeed supernatural even according to the Bible. And we (Muslims) believe in the Quran completely. The Quran tells us that Jesus spoke as a baby and that's why we believe it. We didn't just come up with a story to defame Jesus. The Quran explains it as a miracle and we believe it to be the first miracle of Jesus so what's there to be offended about? His birth was miraculous and He performed many miracles. There is nothing blasphemous about saying he spoke as a baby because even the aim or motive for saying so it to show how special he is and not to smear him.

You said "we are all blasphemers according to one religion or another". I disagree with you. This is completely wrong. If you don't mind sharing, it'll help me to give you better examples that you can relate to if I know your religious beliefs.

It is regarded as heretic.
Would you like me to open a thread on Christian opinion about this? Okay, forget Jesus speaking as a baby and him being God. What about the Islamic denial of saying Jesus is the son of God or being crucified?

To believe those things about Jesus is central in Christianity but Muslims believe that is blasphemy and Christians will burn for that.

Christians in turn believe you cannot be a Christian if you don't have those beliefs about Jesus and minimizing his divinity is blasphemy FOR THEM.

Do you see why blasphemy is subjective according to whatever belief you hold?

It is not blasphemous for atheists and Christians to mock Mohammed because he is only significant to YOU MUSLIMS.
He is not special to the rest of us.

If you don't agree with free speech, do not live in the west.

1Sharon:

It is regarded as heretic.
Would you like me to open a thread on Christian opinion about this? Okay, forget Jesus speaking as a baby and him being God. What about the Islamic denial of saying Jesus is the son of God or being crucified?

To believe those things about Jesus is central in Christianity but Muslims believe that is blasphemy and Christians will burn for that.

Christians in turn believe you cannot be a Christian if you don't have those beliefs about Jesus and minimizing his divinity is blasphemy FOR THEM.

Do you see why blasphemy is subjective according to whatever belief you hold?

It is not blasphemous for atheists and Christians to mock Mohammed because he is only significant to YOU MUSLIMS.
He is not special to the rest of us.

If you don't agree with free speech, do not live in the west.

Please do and I'll appreciate it if you inform me when you create the thread.
All these issues you raised about Jesus being God, him being the son of God, being crucified etc, the Quran tells us that they are false but the Christians believe these to be true because they're in the Bible. The Quran did tell us that he spoke as a baby while the Bible does not contain anything about him speaking as a baby.
The Muslims believe in the Quran and the Christians the Bible. From the above, both the Quran and the Bible have different narrations about the same person (Jesus) that only implies one thing: one of them is incorrect because they're talking about the same person right?
It's now a question of which of them is correct?
Without sentiments, the Quran has no contradiction at all, zero mistake! You'll never find a single mistake in the Quran because there are none! The Quran is the only book in the world that is one hundred percent perfect. Prove me wrong.
The Bible on the other hand has so many contradictions. They are so many I can give you at least 20. Here's a few:

Mathew 28:8
And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
Luke 24:9
Then they returned from the tomb and told all these things to the eleven and to all the rest.
Mark 16:8
So they went out quickly and fled from the tomb, for they trembled and were amazed. And they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.


Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned
John 8:51
Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death


Proverb 12:22
Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.
1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.


Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
Not of works, lest any man should boast
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

If you'll be honest with yourself, you'll know that the narration the Quran gave on Jesus is indeed the correct one.
There are so many things I'll love to share with you but my battery is low now so I can't go on and on.
We've really put in time into this discussion and I appreciate it that your doing this. I'll like to clarify that I am not doing this just to win an argument or to convince you into becoming a Muslim (though I'd be really glad if you do ). I'm only doing this to clear some of the misconceptions you have about Islam. The things you're hearing about Islam from none Muslims may be popular but being popular isn't necessarily true. Get to know Islam yourself and I'm 100 percent sure that that your opinion about this religion will change for good.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

1Sharon:

It is regarded as heretic.
Would you like me to open a thread on Christian opinion about this? Okay, forget Jesus speaking as a baby and him being God. What about the Islamic denial of saying Jesus is the son of God or being crucified?

To believe those things about Jesus is central in Christianity but Muslims believe that is blasphemy and Christians will burn for that.

Christians in turn believe you cannot be a Christian if you don't have those beliefs about Jesus and minimizing his divinity is blasphemy FOR THEM.

Do you see why blasphemy is subjective according to whatever belief you hold?

It is not blasphemous for atheists and Christians to mock Mohammed because he is only significant to YOU MUSLIMS.
He is not special to the rest of us.

If you don't agree with free speech, do not live in the west.

Please do and I'll appreciate it if you inform me when you create the thread.
All these issues you raised about Jesus being God, him being the son of God, being crucified etc, the Quran tells us that they are false but the Christians believe these to be true because they're in the Bible. The Quran did tell us that he spoke as a baby while the Bible does not contain anything about him speaking as a baby.
The Muslims believe in the Quran and the Christians the Bible. From the above, both the Quran and the Bible have different narrations about the same person (Jesus) that only implies one thing: one of them is incorrect because they're talking about the same person right?
It's now a question of which of them is correct?
Without sentiments, the Quran has no contradiction at all, zero mistake! You'll never find a single mistake in the Quran because there are none! The Quran is the only book in the world that is one hundred percent perfect. Prove me wrong.
The Bible on the other hand has so many contradictions. They are so many I can give you at least 20. Here's a few:

Mathew 28:8
And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
Luke 24:9
Then they returned from the tomb and told all these things to the eleven and to all the rest.
Mark 16:8
So they went out quickly and fled from the tomb, for they trembled and were amazed. And they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.


Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned
John 8:51
Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death


Proverb 12:22
Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.
1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.


Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
Not of works, lest any man should boast
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

If you'll be honest with yourself, you'll know that the narration the Quran gave on Jesus is indeed the correct one.

1Sharon There are so many things I'll love to share with you but my battery is low now so I can't go on.
We've really put in time into this discussion and I appreciate it that your doing this with me. I'll like to clarify that I am not doing this just to win an argument or to convince you into becoming a Muslim (though I'd be really glad if you do ). I'm only doing this to clear some of the misconceptions you have about Islam. The things you're hearing about Islam from none Muslims may be popular but being popular isn't necessarily true. Get to know Islam yourself and I'm 100 percent sure that that your opinion about this religion will change for good.

Enjoy the rest of your day

FarinJini:

Please do and I'll appreciate it if you inform me when you create the thread.
All these issues you raised about Jesus being God, him being the son of God, being crucified etc, the Quran tells us that they are false but the Christians believe these to be true because they're in the Bible. The Quran did tell us that he spoke as a baby while the Bible does not contain anything about him speaking as a baby.
The Muslims believe in the Quran and the Christians the Bible. From the above, both the Quran and the Bible have different narrations about the same person (Jesus) that only implies one thing: one of them is incorrect because they're talking about the same person right?
It's now a question of which of them is correct?
Without sentiments, the Quran has no contradiction at all, zero mistake! You'll never find a single mistake in the Quran because there are none! The Quran is the only book in the world that is one hundred percent perfect. Prove me wrong.
The Bible on the other hand has so many contradictions. They are so many I can give you at least 20. Here's a few:

Mathew 28:8
And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
Luke 24:9
Then they returned from the tomb and told all these things to the eleven and to all the rest.
Mark 16:8
So they went out quickly and fled from the tomb, for they trembled and were amazed. And they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.


Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned
John 8:51
Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death


Proverb 12:22
Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.
1 Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.


Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God
Not of works, lest any man should boast
James 2:24
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

If you'll be honest with yourself, you'll know that the narration the Quran gave on Jesus is indeed the correct one.

That is not what we are arguing about. I don't care which holey book is legitimate. I have no affiliation to any of them.

My point is that blasphemy is subjective according to which religion you follow.

Someone is free to mock Mohammed if he wants to. The west stands for liberation and free speech. If youre Muslims and you get offended about that, stay in Nigeria.

After all atheists can't go and be open about their atheism in Sharia countries can they?

If they won't change their laws, who are you to say they should change theirs by silencing peoples comments about Mohammed.

The west is not a Sharia zone, there are no blasphemy laws.

Do you see the hypocrisy now with Muslims?

FarinJini:
1Sharon There are so many things I'll love to share with you but my battery is low now so I can't go on.
We've really put in time into this discussion and I appreciate it that your doing this with me. I'll like to clarify that I am not doing this just to win an argument or to convince you into becoming a Muslim (though I'd be really glad if you do ). I'm only doing this to clear some of the misconceptions you have about Islam. The things you're hearing about Islam from none Muslims may be popular but being popular isn't necessarily true. Get to know Islam yourself and I'm 100 percent sure that that your opinion about this religion will change for good.

Enjoy the rest of your day

You didnt clear any misconceptions. All you did was go off point and go round in circles.

What did I say about Islam that wasn't true? And why haven't you tried to set the record straight?

Not once have you addressed the blasphemy laws and apostasy laws. Does that exist in Sharia zones, yes or no?

Is Sharia not fundamental true Islam, yes or no?

1Sharon:


That is not what we are arguing about. I don't care which holey book is legitimate. I have no affiliation to any of them.

My point is that blasphemy is subjective according to which religion you follow.

Someone is free to mock Mohammed if he wants to. The west stands for liberation and free speech. If youre Muslims and you get offended about that, stay in Nigeria.

After all atheists can't go and be open about their atheism in Sharia countries can they?

If they won't change their laws, who are you to say they should change theirs by silencing peoples comments about Mohammed.

The west is not a Sharia zone, there are no blasphemy laws.

Do you see the hypocrisy now with Muslims?

Hey. Sorry for not responding sooner. Wasn't feeling like it.

I think our personal believes or opinions are bound to be subjective one way or the other. But blasphemy shouldn't be affiliated with freedom of speech. Let me give you an example. If someone walks up to you and starts talking to you or about you in an offensive manner will you be offended or you'll just say the person is exercising his freedom of speech? Same thing with blasphemy. You don't blaspheme and tag it free speech.

Hypocrisy? Far from it. I already told you it's a sin for Muslims to blaspheme what others hold sacred. I made reference to a verse in the Quran. "And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah, lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. (Quran 6 Al-An'aam: Verse 108)

FarinJini:
Hey. Sorry for not responding sooner. Wasn't feeling like it.

I think our personal believes or opinions are bound to be subjective one way or the other. But[b] blasphemy[/b] shouldn't be affiliated with freedom of speech. Let me give you an example. If someone walks up to you and starts talking to you or about you in an offensive manner will you be offended or you'll just say the person is exercising his freedom of speech? Same thing with blasphemy. You don't blaspheme and tag it free speech.

Hypocrisy? Far from it. I already told you it's a sin for Muslims to blaspheme what others hold sacred. I made reference to a verse in the Quran. "And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah, lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. (Quran 6 Al-An'aam: Verse 108)

There you go again! Blasphemy is subjective. Why are you not getting this? Muslims already blaspheme what other hold sacred. You blaspheme Hindus and Christians. But do they shout like you do?

The person doing the 'blaspheming' doesn't feel he is offending your religion because as as I said YOUR RELIGION is special to you only.

Is everybody Muslim for Christ sake?


Is the west as Sharia zone? what consequences do you expect him to face for offending your religion?

If someone offends me I don't have the right to touch him!


You are trying to say the west can't have free speech. Which is THEIR law .

But can a westerner tell muslims you can't have Sharia, over there in Islamic countries?

You see the hypocrisy again?