I have been wanting to ask.

Why would an all-knowing God ordain the role of the Prophet of the last true religion, the religion of "Peace" to a character surrounded by controversies, a highway raider, and a political warlord in the person of Muhammad?

Even in the Quran, the narration of Jesus' life epitomizes a simple one of peace with God and with Mankind. On the other hand, Muhammad lived a relatively violent life ( lived on the sword ), warring with neighbors ( in the once tranquil region of Arabia ), raiding and looting innocent merchants of their possessions on trade highways. Even Death didn't deal peaceably with Muhammad, he died painfully of acute poisoning quite unlike Isa/Jesus whom God ascended to heaven alive and will still make a return to Earth ( from Quran).

After the Death of Muhammad, the next battle for the first generation Muslims wasn't one of spiritual connotation rather it was a physical one. Worst off, it was amongst themselves over the succession of the caliphate which lead up to the Shia-Sunni split. Something unheard of from the first Christians in the Bible which were recorded to live in piety and charity even under intense Roman persecution. Safe to say the followers of Jesus and Muhammad were duly taught in the doctrines of their masters.

How then can Muslims balance these conflicting narratives?

May Allah guide you .

Yustyle:
May Allah guide you .

I believe Allah has guided you, now please guide me.
How should I accept belief in someone whose lifestyle contravenes my ethics.

chigator2:
I have been wanting to ask.

Why would an all-knowing God ordain the role of the Prophet of the last true religion, the religion of "Peace" to a character surrounded by controversies, a highway raider, and a political warlord in the person of Muhammad?

Even in the Quran, the narration of Jesus' life epitomizes a simple one of peace with God and with Mankind. On the other hand, Muhammad lived a relatively violent life ( lived on the sword ), warring with neighbors ( in the once tranquil region of Arabia ), raiding and looting innocent merchants of their possessions on trade highways. Even Death didn't deal peaceably with Muhammad, he died painfully of acute poisoning quite unlike Isa/Jesus whom God ascended to heaven alive and will still make a return to Earth ( from Quran).

After Death, the next battle for the first generation Muslims wasn't one of spiritual connotation rather it was a physical one. Worst off, it was amongst themselves over the succession of the caliphate which lead up to the Shia-Sunni split. Something unheard of from the first Christians in the Bible which were recorded to live in piety and charity even under intense Roman persecution. Safe to say the followers of Jesus and Muhammad were duly taught in the doctrines of their masters.

How then can Muslims balance these conflicting narratives?

Was Jesus the only prophet and messenger of Allah. Why are you not Questioning why God would send Moses for example despite what he did..


Jesus said

Mathew 10
.34Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

35For I have come to part asunder a man from his father, and a daughter from her mother, and a [m]newly married wife from her mother-in-law--

36And a man's foes will be they of his own household.



God had warned isreal already they failed to heed his warning he said



Jeremiah 22
5 But if you will not hear these words, I swear by Myself, says the Lord, that this house will become a desolation.

6 For thus says the Lord concerning the house of the king of Judah: [If you will not listen to Me, though] you are [as valuable] to Me as [the fat pastures of] Gilead [east of the Jordan] or as the [plentiful] summit of Lebanon [west of the Jordan], yet surely I will make you a wilderness and uninhabited cities.

7 And I will prepare, solemnly set apart, and appoint [to execute My judgments against you] destroyers, each with his weapons, and they will cut down your [palaces built of] choicest cedars and cast them into the fire.

8 And many nations will pass by this city, and every man will say to his neighbor, Why has the Lord done this to this great city?

9 Then they will answer, Because [the people] forsook the covenant or solemn pledge with the Lord their God and worshiped other gods and served them.



Here is Jesus cursing isreal after they had been warned without heeding warning

Mathew 23

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, murdering the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a mother fowl gathers her brood under her wings, and you refused!

38 Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate (abandoned and left destitute of God's help). [I Kings 9:7; Jer. 22:5.]

39 For I declare to you, you will not see Me again until you say, Blessed (magnified in worship, adored, and exalted) is He Who comes in the name of the Lord!(F)



Allah SWT said:

"They have been put under humiliation [by Allah] wherever they are overtaken, except for a covenant from Allah and a rope from the Muslims. And they have drawn upon themselves anger from Allah and have been put under destitution. That is because they disbelieved in the verses of Allah and killed the prophets without right. That is because they disobeyed and [habitually] transgressed."
(QS. Aal-i-Imraan 3: Verse 112)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com

haekymbahd:

Was Jesus the only prophet and messenger of Allah. Why are you not Questioning why God would send Moses for example despite what he did..

Jesus said
Mathew 10
.34Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.
35For I have come to part asunder a man from his father, and a daughter from her mother, and a [m]newly married wife from her mother-in-law--
36And a man's foes will be they of his own household.

God had warned Israel already they failed to heed his warning he said
Jeremiah 22
5 But if you will not hear these words, I swear by Myself, says the Lord, that this house will become a desolation.
6 For thus says the Lord concerning the house of the king of Judah: [If you will not listen to Me, though] you are [as valuable] to Me as [the fat pastures of] Gilead [east of the Jordan] or as the [plentiful] summit of Lebanon [west of the Jordan], yet surely I will make you a wilderness and uninhabited cities.
7 And I will prepare, solemnly set apart, and appoint [to execute My judgments against you] destroyers, each with his weapons, and they will cut down your [palaces built of] choicest cedars and cast them into the fire.
8 And many nations will pass by this city, and every man will say to his neighbor, Why has the Lord done this to this great city?
9 Then they will answer, Because [the people] forsook the covenant or solemn pledge with the Lord their God and worshiped other gods and served them.

[b]First and foremost, I am using the case of Jesus because of the spectacular circumstances surrounding his existence in both Quranic and Biblical narrations. Also according to Islam, he was the penultimate Prophet according to Islam. You can say second in command.

According to the Quran:

1. Jesus was the child of a virgin, Maryam. She didn't have sex to conceive him. Miraculous Birth

2. Maryam, Jesus mom is the only woman with a chapter of the Quran named after her

3. Jesus performed Miracles from as early as childhood, he cured people of illness, he even resurrected a dead bird ( gave life )

4. Jesus wasn't crucified or murdered, he was ascended to heaven alive by God when the Jews sought to kill him.

5. Jesus will return to earth to fight the Dajjal/Anti-Christ.

An uninformed person will think, " Wow, for this guy to possess all these divine powers and features he must be a God or at least the protagonist of the story. right..?? ".

Rather... No, the preferential Prophet of God most superior in the Muslim Faith is Muhammad !! of normal/natural birth by a non-virgin mother. Muhammad could neither perform miracles nor heal the sick. He was rather skilled in taking life instead. He died of food poisoning by a Jewess prisoner and no magnificent return is promised about him. His story ends.

How can you now tell me the second guy is the true one sent from God, meanwhile the first one seems eerily close to being a God, given that no one was as special as Jesus in the Quran[/b]

chigator2:


[b]First and foremost, I am using the case of Jesus because of the spectacular circumstances surrounding his existence in both Quranic and Biblical narrations. Also according to Islam, he was the penultimate Prophet according to Islam. You can say second in command.

According to the Quran:

1. Jesus was the child of a virgin, Maryam. She didn't have sex to conceive him. Miraculous Birth

2. Maryam, Jesus mom is the only woman with a chapter of the Quran named after her

3. Jesus performed Miracles from as early as childhood, he cured people of illness, he even resurrected a dead bird ( gave life )

4. Jesus wasn't crucified or murdered, he was ascended to heaven alive by God when the Jews sought to kill him.

5. Jesus will return to earth to fight the Dajjal/Anti-Christ.

An uninformed person will think, " Wow, for this guy to possess all these divine powers and features he must be a God or at least the protagonist of the story. right..?? ".

Rather... No, the preferential Prophet of God most superior in the Muslim Faith is Muhammad !! of normal/natural birth by a non-virgin mother. Muhammad could neither perform miracles nor heal the sick. He was rather skilled in taking life instead. He died of food poisoning by a Jewess prisoner and no magnificent return is promised about him. His story ends.

How can you now tell me the second guy is the true one sent from God, meanwhile the first one seems eerily close to being a God, given that no one was as special as Jesus in the Quran[/b]

Allah SWT said:

"Say, to them, O Muhammad (s): ‘We believe in God, and that which has been revealed to us, and that which has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael, and Isaac and Jacob, and the Tribes, the latter’s sons; and in that which was given to Moses and Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord; we make no division between any of them, by believing [in some] and disbelieving [in others]; and to Him we submit’, devoting worship sincerely [to Him]."
(QS. Aal-i-Imraan 3: Verse 84)


All prophets of God preached the same message which is the worship of one God. Jesus and Muhammad both did the same.

We follow all the messengers without making distinction between we follow the Quran which was revealed to the last prophet (Muhammad). There is no way we Muslims can accept Muhammad without believing Jesus (Isa) was the messiah. We make no division between any of them they are all messengers of God and none not even Muhammad is second in Command.



Jesus nor Muhammad never did all they did on their own the creator is the one who is all deserving of the credit he was only using both of them.


John 5
30 I am able to do nothing from Myself [independently, of My own accord--but only as I am taught by God and as I get His orders]. Even as I hear, I judge [I decide as I am bidden to decide. As the voice comes to Me, so I give a decision], and My judgment is right (just, righteous), because I do not seek or consult My own will [I have no desire to do what is pleasing to Myself, My own aim, My own purpose] but only the will and pleasure of the Father Who sent Me.


God does not have a second in command. There is only one God and we are all expected to serve him including Muhammad and Jesus..

haekymbahd:
Was Jesus the only prophet and messenger of Allah. Why are you not Questioning why God would send Moses for example despite what he did..


Jesus said

Mathew 10
.34Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

35For I have come to part asunder a man from his father, and a daughter from her mother, and a [m]newly married wife from her mother-in-law--

36And a man's foes will be they of his own household.

[b}God had warned isreal already they failed to heed his warning he said[/b]

Let me lie and wait for enemies of Islam cos I know they will attack now their food don land.

Next from your quoted text, you are trying to paint a violent picture of Jesus of the Bible to the best of your ability. I know it is hard because the case of a violent Jesus has little to no substance.
These few verses are often used by most Muslims to plead their case, the reason being that they read it out of context and salt its interpretation with their bigotry. To help you is my explanation below;

Match those quoted words of Lord Jesus to his actions and the rest of his life.

Did he ever form an armed group? NO

Did he ever attack anyone with an intent to kill? NO. During his arrest, Peter his disciple cut off an official's ear, Jesus warned Peter against using violence to solve problems, then he picked up the cut ear and fixed it back.

Jesus preached an awkward pacifist philosophy. He said these words " If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn the other for him to slap on too " " Forgive your brother up to 70 * 7 ( 490 ) times in one day ". He was only being figurative about his command to love and be peaceful.

Now, what could he mean by those verses you quoted. He implied that following his doctrines i.e becoming a Christian will put you at odds with the rest of the world even up to your family members.

His words have been fulfilled today, where newly converted Christians are disowned by their parents and family, ostracized by sinners who see them as being too holy, persecuted for their faith even up to death sometimes by your loved ones. In summary, that was simply a warning to his followers that believing in him has set them on a collision course with the rest of the world.

Another reason for the first verse is that the Jewish Nation from his time even up till now is still expecting a coming Messiah who will rule politically from Jerusalem. His reign will fulfill God's promise to them and bring peace to the world. But they were mistaken because he is the Messiah not just what they were expecting. This he clarified to his disciples.

haekymbahd:


Allah SWT said:

"Say, to them, O Muhammad (s): ‘We believe in God, and that which has been revealed to us, and that which has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael, and Isaac and Jacob, and the Tribes, the latter’s sons; and in that which was given to Moses and Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord; we make no division between any of them, by believing [in some] and disbelieving [in others]; and to Him we submit’, devoting worship sincerely [to Him]."
(QS. Aal-i-Imraan 3: Verse 84)


All prophets of God preached the same message which is the worship of one God. Jesus and Muhammad both did the same.

We follow all the messengers without making distinction between we follow the Quran which was revealed to the last prophet (Muhammad). There is no way we Muslims can accept Muhammad without believing Jesus (Isa) was the messiah. We make no division between any of them they are all messengers of God and none not even Muhammad is second in Command.



Jesus nor Muhammad never did all they did on their own the creator is the one who is all deserving of the credit he was only using both of them.


John 5
30 I am able to do nothing from Myself [independently, of My own accord--but only as I am taught by God and as I get His orders]. Even as I hear, I judge [I decide as I am bidden to decide. As the voice comes to Me, so I give a decision], and My judgment is right (just, righteous), because I do not seek or consult My own will [I have no desire to do what is pleasing to Myself, My own aim, My own purpose] but only the will and pleasure of the Father Who sent Me.


God does not have a second in command. There is only one God and we are all expected to serve him including Muhammad and Jesus..

haekymbahd

Say whatever pleases you, the fact remains, the way the Quran portrays Jesus is way more magnificent than whatever Muhammad was pictured as. That is the Quran.

The doctrines and principles of Muhammad match Jesus's message only on a basal level. Other than that, they are worlds apart. What did Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Jesus have to do with bowing down and praying to a rock/stone somewhere faraway in Saudi Arabia? Idolatry bro. Haram keep off !!
Talkless of the rest of Hadith and Sunna that will taint the pristine image of Jesus.

chigator2:



Next from your quoted text, you are trying to paint a violent picture of Jesus of the Bible to the best of your ability. I know it is hard because the case of a violent Jesus has little to no substance.
These few verses are often used by most Muslims to plead their case, the reason being that they read it out of context and salt its interpretation with their bigotry. To help you is my explanation below;

Match those quoted words of Lord Jesus to his actions and the rest of his life.

Did he ever form an armed group? NO

Did he ever attack anyone with an intent to kill? NO. During his arrest, Peter his disciple cut off an official's ear, Jesus warned Peter against using violence to solve problems, then he picked up the cut ear and fixed it back.

Jesus preached an awkward pacifist philosophy. He said these words " If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn the other for him to slap on too " " Forgive your brother up to 70 * 7 ( 490 ) times in one day ". He was only being figurative about his command to love and be peaceful.

Now, what could he mean by those verses you quoted. He implied that following his doctrines i.e becoming a Christian will put you at odds with the rest of the world even up to your family members.

His words have been fulfilled today, where newly converted Christians are disowned by their parents and family, ostracized by sinners who see them as being too holy, persecuted for their faith even up to death sometimes by your loved ones. In summary, that was simply a warning to his followers that believing in him has set them on a collision course with the rest of the world.

Another reason for the first verse is that the Jewish Nation from his time even up till now is still expecting a coming Messiah who will rule politically from Jerusalem. His reign will fulfill God's promise to them and bring peace to the world. But they were mistaken because he is the Messiah not just what they were expecting. This he clarified to his disciples.

Are saying Jesus has fulfilled his messianic prophecies he didn't. He is comming back to fulfil that in his second comming...

Jesus was peaceful but was Jehovah peaceful Jesus was sent to isrealites to preach the Gospel they rejected him and broke the covenant with God after which they had been warned. What will be the repercussion for that

Jeremiah 22
5 But if you will not hear these words, I swear by Myself, says the Lord, that this house will become a desolation.

6 For thus says the Lord concerning the house of the king of Judah: [If you will not listen to Me, though] you are [as valuable] to Me as [the fat pastures of] Gilead [east of the Jordan] or as the [plentiful] summit of Lebanon [west of the Jordan], yet surely I will make you a wilderness and uninhabited cities.

7 And I will prepare, solemnly set apart, and appoint [to execute My judgments against you] destroyers, each with his weapons, and they will cut down your [palaces built of] choicest cedars and cast them into the fire.


At verse 7 who formed the group was it Jesus or Jehovah

haekymbahd:
Are saying Jesus has fulfilled his messianic prophecies he didn't. He is comming back to fulfil that in his second comming...

In the Bible, he is coming back too to defeat the Anti-Christ. Why couldn't Muhammad make it to the party ??

I see many similarities across these 2 books on the subject of Jesus.
I am no expert, but if you ask me, who do I think copied from the other and added their own stuff to suit themselves. I will say Islam because Muhammad got his 1st revelation about 1000 years after Jesus.

chigator2:


In the Bible, he is coming back too to defeat the Anti-Christ. Why couldn't Muhammad make it to the party ??

I see many similarities across these 2 books on the subject of Jesus.
I am no expert, but if you ask me, who do I think copied from the other and added their own stuff to suit themselves. I will say Islam because Muhammad got his 1st revelation about 1000 years after Jesus.

The prophecy is not fulfilled yet

Abu Huraira reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Blessed is he who lives after the coming of the Messiah. Blessed is he who lives after the coming of the Messiah. It will be announced for the heavens in the land, and it will be announced for the earth in the crops. If you were to sow your seed upon the rock, it would surely grow. You will not have greed for each other, nor will you envy each other, nor will you hate each other, until a man will pass by a lion and he will not harm him and he will walk over a snake and it will not harm him. You will not have greed for each other, nor will you envy each other, nor will you hate each other.”

Source: Ḥadīth Abī Bakr al-Anbārī 47

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Albani


Is there peace in the world yet. How can there peace when the anti Christ has not been defeated. Muhammad is not messiah but Jesus is that is why he is comming back so he is not joining any party neither is Moses comming.


Allah SWT said:

"And indeed, Jesus will be [a sign for] knowledge of the Hour, so be not in doubt of it, and follow Me. This is a straight path."
(QS. Az-Zukhruf 43: Verse 61)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com

haekymbahd:


Allah SWT said:

"Say, to them, O Muhammad (s): ‘We believe in God, and that which has been revealed to us, and that which has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael, and Isaac and Jacob, and the Tribes, the latter’s sons; and in that which was given to Moses and Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord; we make no division between any of them, by believing [in some] and disbelieving [in others]; and to Him we submit’, devoting worship sincerely [to Him]."
(QS. Aal-i-Imraan 3: Verse 84)


All prophets of God preached the same message which is the worship of one God. Jesus and Muhammad both did the same.

Exodus 20: 4 -5

4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

God gave Moses this law for the people of Isreal recorded in the Jewish Scriptures, repeated in the Bible, I don't know if Angel Gabriel forgot the script and gave Muslims a different version.

5 times a day Muslims all over the world commit Idolatry yet according to you " All prophets of God preached the same message which is the worship of one God. Jesus and Muhammad both did the same. ". Pure Blasphemy and Fallacy.
I don't know perhaps God actually gave Muhammad the revelation but he tweaked it a bit, so he got whacked in a shameful way as punishment. Wasn't an honorable death befitting of the Rasuullah, you can't deny.

Don't mention Jesus because according to the Bible, he came for that purpose. He is alive now and ascended to Heaven, can't say the same of the other fellow.
At least, we can agree on that ehh ?? I think I have done justice to that and by you.

haekymbahd:
The prophecy is not fulfilled yet

Abu Huraira reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Blessed is he who lives after the coming of the Messiah. Blessed is he who lives after the coming of the Messiah. It will be announced for the heavens in the land, and it will be announced for the earth in the crops. If you were to sow your seed upon the rock, it would surely grow. You will not have greed for each other, nor will you envy each other, nor will you hate each other, until a man will pass by a lion and he will not harm him and he will walk over a snake and it will not harm him. You will not have greed for each other, nor will you envy each other, nor will you hate each other.”

Source: Ḥadīth Abī Bakr al-Anbārī 47

Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Albani


Is there peace in the world yet. How can there peace when the anti Christ has not been defeated. Muhammad is not messiah but Jesus is that is why he is comming back so he is not joining any party neither is Moses comming.


Allah SWT said:

"And indeed, Jesus will be [a sign for] knowledge of the Hour, so be not in doubt of it, and follow Me. This is a straight path."
(QS. Az-Zukhruf 43: Verse 61)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com

You lost me bro and I'm done with you after this.
All you have said so far reinforced the Superiority of Jesus over Muhammad in the Quran.

You have failed to answer my original question on how Muslims can balance the contradicting Narratives of Islam in theory and practice yet tag it the religion of Peace.

Say No to Idolatry. Bye.

chigator2:


haekymbahd

Say whatever pleases you, the fact remains, the way the Quran portrays Jesus is way more magnificent than whatever Muhammad was pictured as. That is the Quran.

The doctrines and principles of Muhammad match Jesus's message only on a basal level. Other than that, they are worlds apart. What did Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Jesus have to do with bowing down and praying to a rock/stone somewhere faraway in Saudi Arabia? Idolatry bro. Haram keep off !!
Talkless of the rest of Hadith and Sunna that will taint the pristine image of Jesus.

That is how God want to do his things. Jesus had foretold that the house of God will be moved away from Jerusalem

John 4
21 Jesus said to her, Woman, believe Me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither [merely] in this mountain nor [merely] in Jerusalem.



Allah ordered Muhammad to destroy the khaaba and establish true worship there. the foundation of the khaaba was both raised by Abraham and Ishmael before it was later developed as it is today

Allah SWT said:

"And [mention] when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and [with him] Ishmael, [saying], Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 127)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com


Mind you Muslims facing a direction towards the khaaba wasn't a knew thing as that was the practice of the Jews also Jesus also was a Jew hence he prayed praying towards the temple at Jerusalem

Jewish law

The Talmud states that a Jew praying in the Diaspora, shall direct himself toward the Land of Israel; in Israel, toward Jerusalem; in Jerusalem, toward the Temple; and in the Temple, toward the Holy of Holies.

Would you consider that idolatry Jesus did the same when he prayed at the temple.

haekymbahd:
That is how God want to do his things. Jesus had foretold that the house of God will be moved away from Jerusalem

John 4
21 Jesus said to her, Woman, believe Me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither [merely] in this mountain nor [merely] in Jerusalem.



Allah ordered Muhammad to destroy the khaaba and establish true worship there. the foundation of the khaaba was both raised by Abraham and Ishmael before it was later developed as it is today

Allah SWT said:

"And [mention] when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and [with him] Ishmael, [saying], Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 127)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com


Mind you Muslims facing a direction towards the khaaba wasn't a knew thing as that was the practice of the Jews also Jesus also was a Jew hence he prayed praying towards the temple at Jerusalem

Jewish law

The Talmud states that a Jew praying in the Diaspora, shall direct himself toward the Land of Israel; in Israel, toward Jerusalem; in Jerusalem, toward the Temple; and in the Temple, toward the Holy of Holies.

Would you consider that idolatry Jesus did the same when he prayed at the temple.

Bloody Lies, the bible even the Quran never recorded that Jesus or Abraham prayed, bowing in a certain direction. Show me the verse in both the Quran and Bible, else stop lying.

Even if Jesus prayed facing the Jerusalem temple, Is the Kaaba in Jerusalem ?? See how blindly you defend Idolatry.

chigator2:


Bloody Lies, the bible even the Quran never recorded that Jesus or Abraham prayed, bowing in a certain direction. Show me the verse in both the Quran and Bible, else stop lying.

Even if Jesus prayed facing the Jerusalem temple, Is the Kaaba in Jerusalem ?? See how blindly you defend Idolatry.

Did you not read this bible verse where Jesus said worship of the Father will be moved from Jerusalem

John 4
21 Jesus said to her, Woman, believe Me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither [merely] in this mountain nor [merely] in Jerusalem.

22 You [Samaritans] do not know what you are worshiping [you worship what you do not comprehend]. We do know what we are worshiping [we worship what we have knowledge of and understand], for [after all] salvation comes from [among] the Jews.

23 A time will come, however, indeed it is already here, when the true (genuine) worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth (reality); for the Father is seeking just such people as these as His worshipers.




The Talmud states that a Jew praying in the Diaspora, shall direct himself toward the Land of Israel; in Israel, toward Jerusalem; in Jerusalem, toward the Temple; and in the Temple, toward the Holy of Holies. ... The custom is based on the prayer of Solomon (I Kings 8:33, 44, 48; II Chron. 6:34).


Did Jesus pray at the temple or not?

haekymbahd:
That is how God want to do his things. Jesus had foretold that the house of God will be moved away from Jerusalem

John 4
21 Jesus said to her, Woman, believe Me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither [merely] in this mountain nor [merely] in Jerusalem.



Allah ordered Muhammad to destroy the khaaba and establish true worship there. the foundation of the khaaba was both raised by Abraham and Ishmael before it was later developed as it is today

Allah SWT said:

"And [mention] when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and [with him] Ishmael, [saying], Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 127)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com


Mind you Muslims facing a direction towards the khaaba wasn't a knew thing as that was the practice of the Jews also Jesus also was a Jew hence he prayed praying towards the temple at Jerusalem

Jewish law

The Talmud states that a Jew praying in the Diaspora, shall direct himself toward the Land of Israel; in Israel, toward Jerusalem; in Jerusalem, toward the Temple; and in the Temple, toward the Holy of Holies.

Would you consider that idolatry Jesus did the same when he prayed at the temple.

In the verse of the Quran, there is no mention that instructed Abraham to pray in the direction of the Kaaba.

Muhammad the charlatan, copied the Islamic and Judaic religious rites and scripted a false religion to find a common ground to make it easy to deceive people.

The Talmud is similar to the Sunna and Hadith in Islam. Talmud is not the word of God rather Hebrew religious rites and traditions.

In the Torah, the Jewish counterpart of the Quran. God never instructed Israelites to pray facing any particular direction or object. Stop covering up your Idolatry and don't try to Involve Jesus in the sins of Muhammad.

haekymbahd:


Did you not read this bible verse where Jesus said worship of the Father will be moved from Jerusalem

John 4
21 Jesus said to her, Woman, believe Me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither [merely] in this mountain nor [merely] in Jerusalem.

22 You [Samaritans] do not know what you are worshiping [you worship what you do not comprehend]. We do know what we are worshiping [we worship what we have knowledge of and understand], for [after all] salvation comes from [among] the Jews.

23 A time will come, however, indeed it is already here, when the true (genuine) worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth (reality); for the Father is seeking just such people as these as His worshipers.




The Talmud states that a Jew praying in the Diaspora, shall direct himself toward the Land of Israel; in Israel, toward Jerusalem; in Jerusalem, toward the Temple; and in the Temple, toward the Holy of Holies. ... The custom is based on the prayer of Solomon (I Kings 8:33, 44, 48; II Chron. 6:34).


Did Jesus pray at the temple or not?

OMG, Funny fellow, you are blowing my wits out.

Where in those verses did Jesus say or imply that soon we will be bowing in praying facing Mecca in Saudi Arabia instead of Jerusalem.
Yes, he said Worshipped will be moved from Jerusalem, did he say the new site for worship is hereby relocated to Kaaba, Mecca, Saudi Arabia.
Even when the Jews worship in Jerusalem, did they bow to any image or rock?

You don't sound intelligent at all.

Doesn't the phrase that contains the words " Worship in In SPIRIT and TRUTH " show that Jesus hinted that the ideal worship will have no physical limitation or barrier ?? Spirit is metaphysical. Get hold of your logic man, you are embarrassing yourself!!

chigator2:


In the verse of the Quran, there is no mention that instructed Abraham to pray in the direction of the Kaaba.

Muhammad the charlatan, copied the Islamic and Judaic religious rites and scripted a false religion to find a common ground to make it easy to deceive people.

The Talmud is similar to the Sunna and Hadith in Islam. Talmud is not the word of God rather Hebrew religious rites and traditions.

In the Torah, the Jewish counterpart of the Quran. God never instructed Israelites to pray facing any particular direction or object. Stop covering up your Idolatry and don't try to Involve Jesus in the sins of Muhammad.

So are you saying the Jews facing a direction when praying is idolatry and God was against it.

Allah SWT said:

"We have certainly seen the turning of your face, [O Muhammad], toward the heaven, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased. So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram. And wherever you [believers] are, turn your faces toward it [in prayer]. Indeed, those who have been given the Scripture well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 144)

"And if you brought to those who were given the Scripture every sign, they would not follow your qiblah. Nor will you be a follower of their qiblah. Nor would they be followers of one another's qiblah. So if you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, indeed, you would then be among the wrongdoers."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 145)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com

chigator2:
I have been wanting to ask.

Why would an all-knowing God ordain the role of the Prophet of the last true religion, the religion of "Peace" to a character surrounded by controversies, a highway raider, and a political warlord in the person of Muhammad?

Even in the Quran, the narration of Jesus' life epitomizes a simple one of peace with God and with Mankind. On the other hand, Muhammad lived a relatively violent life ( lived on the sword ), warring with neighbors ( in the once tranquil region of Arabia ), raiding and looting innocent merchants of their possessions on trade highways. Even Death didn't deal peaceably with Muhammad, he died painfully of acute poisoning quite unlike Isa/Jesus whom God ascended to heaven alive and will still make a return to Earth ( from Quran).

After the Death of Muhammad, the next battle for the first generation Muslims wasn't one of spiritual connotation rather it was a physical one. Worst off, it was amongst themselves over the succession of the caliphate which lead up to the Shia-Sunni split. Something unheard of from the first Christians in the Bible which were recorded to live in piety and charity even under intense Roman persecution. Safe to say the followers of Jesus and Muhammad were duly taught in the doctrines of their masters.

How then can Muslims balance these conflicting narratives?

Where is your evidence?

Alhajiemeritus:

Where is your evidence?

Go and read the Hadith and Sunna or any other biography of Muhammad by any trusted Muslim scholar.

Muhammad was a warlord. He was chased from Medina. He gathered followers that believed him, formed an armed gang, and started waylaying merchants that were going to trade in the city, looting and robbing them akin to a highway robber

chigator2:



OMG, Funny fellow, you are blowing my wits out.

Where in those verses did Jesus say or imply that soon we will be bowing in praying facing Mecca in Saudi Arabia instead of Jerusalem.
Yes, he said Worshipped will be moved from Jerusalem, did he say the new site for worship is hereby relocated to Kaaba, Mecca, Saudi Arabia.
Even when the Jews worship in Jerusalem, did they bow to any image or rock?

You don't sound intelligent at all.

Doesn't the phrase that contains the words " Worship in In SPIRIT and TRUTH " show that Jesus hinted that the ideal worship will have no physical limitation or barrier ?? Spirit is metaphysical. Get hold of your logic man, you are embarrassing yourself!!

Hello were you not aware that Jerusalem was cursed and God deserted them.

Mathew 23

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, murdering the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a mother fowl gathers her brood under her wings, and you refused!

38 Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate (abandoned and left destitute of God's help). [I Kings 9:7; Jer. 22:5.]

39 For I declare to you, you will not see Me again until you say, Blessed (magnified in worship, adored, and exalted) is He Who comes in the name of the Lord!(F)



Is facing a direction physical limitation. Allah can only be worshipped in spirit because we cannot see him God having a a house doesn't mean he cannot be worshipped in spirit.

Were the Jews worshipping God physically can they see him?

haekymbahd:
So are you saying the Jews facing a direction when praying is idolatry and God was against it.

Allah SWT said:

"We have certainly seen the turning of your face, [O Muhammad], toward the heaven, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased. So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram. And wherever you [believers] are, turn your faces toward it [in prayer]. Indeed, those who have been given the Scripture well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 144)

"And if you brought to those who were given the Scripture every sign, they would not follow your qiblah. Nor will you be a follower of their qiblah. Nor would they be followers of one another's qiblah. So if you were to follow their desires after what has come to you of knowledge, indeed, you would then be among the wrongdoers."
(QS. Al-Baqara 2: Verse 145)

* Via Qur'an English http://quran-en.com

I already showed you the books of Exodus in the Bible drafted from the Torah where God instructed the Jews not to bow before any graven image of things on the surface or below the earth.

He also never gave Abraham any directive ( in the Bible and Torah ) to pray facing any particular altar or direction, bowing or standing.

The jews facing the temple is not something ordained by God probably a tradition that Muhammad later plagiarized.
The Jerusalem temple never existed in Abraham's lifetime ( The patriarch of the Jews ) so where did God ordain him to face during prayer? Use logic, please.

God telling Muhammad to turn to the qiblah is a commandment that contradicts the command against Idolatry which he instructed. So Satan is behind that not the true God.

chigator2:


Go and read the Hadith and Sunna or any other biography of Muhammad by any trusted Muslim scholar.

Muhammad was a warlord. He was chased from Medina. He gathered followers that believed him, formed an armed gang, and started waylaying merchants that were going to trade in the city, looting and robbing them akin to a highway robber

Go and read Hadith and Sunna and any other biography is a general statement which does not provide any evidence.
Bring your evidence and you'll have an audience.

haekymbahd:
Hello were you not aware that Jerusalem was cursed and God deserted them.

Mathew 23

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, murdering the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a mother fowl gathers her brood under her wings, and you refused!

38 Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate (abandoned and left destitute of God's help). [I Kings 9:7; Jer. 22:5.]

39 For I declare to you, you will not see Me again until you say, Blessed (magnified in worship, adored, and exalted) is He Who comes in the name of the Lord!(F)



Is facing a direction physical limitation. Allah can only be worshipped in spirit because we cannot see him God having a a house doesn't mean he cannot be worshipped in spirit.

Were the Jews worshipping God physically can they see him?

Don't quote me again bro I will not reply. I am serious.

Sorry to say you are not reasoning at all. How will you say facing a fixed direction is not a physical limitation. If you can not face anywhere or stay in any posture to pray that constitutes a physical limitation.

You keep mentioning Bible verses that scolds Jerusalem, now I'm asking did the bible tell Christians/Jews to stop worshipping in Jerusalem and relocate to Mecca and continue worship ?? Please think or stop disturbing me. Idolatry is a sin.

Alhajiemeritus:
Go and read Hadith and Sunna and any other biography is a general statement which does not provide any evidence.
Bring your evidence and you'll have an audience.

Did Muhammad kill anybody in his lifetime ??

Did Muhammad ever cure someone's disease, change their life and resurrect life ??

Did Muhammad's successor have a power struggle that resulted in the assassination of Caliph Ali

If you answer YES for the first question, NO for the second question, and YES for the last one, then I know you are a hypocrite or practicing taqiyya

chigator2:


Don't quote me again bro I will not reply. I am serious.

Sorry to say you are not reasoning at all. How will you say facing a fixed direction is not a physical limitation. If you can not face anywhere or stay in any posture to pray that constitutes a physical limitation.

You keep mentioning Bible verses that scolds Jerusalem, now I'm asking did the bible tell Christians/Jews to stop worshipping in Jerusalem and relocate to Mecca and continue worship ?? Please think or stop disturbing me. Idolatry is a sin.

Jesus was a Jew so he prayed like a Jew, he prayed at the temple and he also bowed his head in worshipping God was Satan behind all that.

The worship in this images are they idolatory to your God are they worshipping those rocks.

Mind you praying in a certain direction started with Solomon he was the one who built the first temple. There was no temple in isreal during Abraham's time God didn't have a house get that.

The Talmud states that a Jew praying in the Diaspora, shall direct himself toward the Land of Israel; in Israel, toward Jerusalem; in Jerusalem, toward the Temple; and in the Temple, toward the Holy of Holies. ... The custom is based on the prayer of Solomon (I Kings 8:33, 44, 48; II Chron. 6:34).

Alhajiemeritus:
Go and read Hadith and Sunna and any other biography is a general statement which does not provide any evidence.
Bring your evidence and you'll have an audience.

One of my pieces of evidence is this Wikipedia page ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim-Meccan_Conflict ) contributed by Muslim scholars with citations of various Islamic religious books and biographies.

You can Google it by typing Early Muslim-Meccan Conflict. Your Muslim scholars claimed he did it to weaken Medina economically but I am certain he did it out of the nature of an aggressive thief and to feed his hungry jobless followers, who left their livelihoods to follow a fake prophet.

chigator2:


One of my pieces of evidence is this Wikipedia page ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim-Meccan_Conflict ) contributed by Muslim scholars with citations of various Islamic religious books and biographies.

You can Google it by typing Early Muslim-Meccan Conflict. Your Muslim scholars claimed he did it to weaken Medina economically but I am certain he did it out of the nature of an aggressive thief and to feed his hungry jobless followers, who left their livelihoods to follow a fake prophet.

Wikipedia isn't accepted as a credible source of information in the Academic world.
You can't even cite Wikipedia in your dissertation or Thesis.

chigator2:


Did Muhammad kill anybody in his lifetime ??

Did Muhammad ever cure someone's disease, change their life and resurrect life ??

Did Muhammad's successor have a power struggle that resulted in the assassination of Caliph Ali

If you answer YES for the first question, NO for the second question, and YES for the last one, then I know you are a hypocrite or practicing taqiyya

It's not only Taqiyah, it's Takulaya.
Do your research and answer your own question.
Bring all your evidences here and let's trash them out.

Alhajiemeritus:
It's not only Taqiyah, it's Takulaya.
Do your research and answer your own question.
Bring all your evidences here and let's trash them out.

Don't let sentiment block reasoning. I said the Wikipedia article contained citations from notable Muslim scholars, scriptures and biographies.

Here are some of them attached below. I understand that you are a nominal Muslim or a hypocrite but more devout and learned ones in your class can attest to the fact that Muhammad fought battles and raided caravans.


" We used to fight along with the prophet " Sahih al-Bukhari

chigator2:


I believe Allah has guided you, now please guide me.
How should I accept belief in someone whose lifestyle contravenes my ethics.

we as humans can only preach to you to accept Islam ... but when it's come to guidance to Islam it's only Allah alone that guides whoever He loves to Islam ..