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Russian Warplanes Intercept US B-52 Nuclear Bomber Over Pacific Ocean(Pix,video) / China Flies 19 Nuke Bombers and Fighter Jets Into Taiwan Air Space (Pix) / China Threatens To NUKE Japan On Eve Of Olympics If It Intervenes In Taiwan(Pix) (2) (3) (4)
|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by WoundedLamb: 2:35am On Oct 07|
So what exactly am I wrong about?
I was not wrong when I said you comparing Taiwan to Biafra was a reverse logic. The argument of why the communist party rose to power in the first place and if it was justified for them to take over is another discussion; one that would be more opinionated than factual (after all, the same people accused of running down the country spearheaded the so-called Taiwan Miracle using socio-economic reforms). I said the KMT was the existing government before the rise of the communist party, so you can't compare them to Biafra which is rather the rising government in this case. Therefore, Taiwan not wanting to be part of China is not just a group of people seeking secession but a group of people saying no to a 'hostile take over'. They do want the CPC style of leadership and they do not want it forced down thier throat. Even the comparison with Taliban is flawed cause Taliban was in power before the ousted government. The fact is, CPC was/is forceful/authoritarian, resistance is only natural.
To get a better picture, imagine the Housas forcefully pulling down the existing government cause there is a high rate of poverty and crime in Nigeria and then coming up with an Islamic government with the idea that they alone can get rid of the aforementioned issues and suppress Boko Haram, ISWAP, UGM, etc. Even if they eventually succeed in doing all these, I'm certain many southerners wouldn't want to be part of such a setup. I know the Taiwan/China case is not about religion or ethnicity, but it's case of different ideology nevertheless. And one does not need the US to know that's it's only logical not force them into accepting the new government simply because they no longer have the resources to resist. We have long passed that era in human history. I maintain that only the people of Taiwan should decide thier own fate.
NB: You might want to paragraph your text next time. I had a hard time reading this one.
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|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by Krismas(m): 7:44am On Oct 07|
WoundedLamb:Pls spare me all ur PEOPLE OF TAIWAN MUST DECIDE CRAP! U only repeating the silly statements of the Americans. Wot does it matter if KMT were ruling before or Taliban were ruling before? KMT does not OWN CHINA or do they? Nigeria has seen many coups, will u now say, Buhari shud choose to accept the government of Babangida? Cos he was the one ruling b4? Cos it should not be by force or wot are u saying self? If Biafra has won the civil war, u wouldn’t dare be comparing them carelessly as u are doing today. In war winner dictates the terms. It is so till next tomorrow. China had a civil war, the KMT lost and wit it every right to dictate terms. Why didn’t the British come to fence off Nigeria from defeating Biafra completely? With the lie that Igbo people must agree first? All of that should not have been the business of the Americans. And shud a world WAR happen over that, eg China invade Taiwan and attack anyone attempting to come to d aid of Taiwan, then the Americans must be held squarely responsible for the whole thing cos they meddling in the internal affairs of another country
|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by Babalola0920: 9:58am On Oct 07|
|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by WoundedLamb: 2:54pm On Oct 07|
I never said KMT owns China because they were ruling before. I never even used that to justify anything. That part was just to shed light on your faulty analogy where you kept KMT side by side with Biafra. I said KMT can't be compared with Biafra cause they're not just a budding government seeking secession but an existing government resisting a hostile takeover. I don't know how you ended up making it the core of your argument.
Now, you're back to the thought process of "the world isn't a fair place, the winner dictate terms". If you are going to stick to that, then we shouldn't be having this chat. Let's just stop trying to justify any party and let the eventual winner take over since the war obviously isn't over. Taiwan is still fighting back with the aid of the US. They have not given up just yet. So if you're simply supporting China's bullying cause they won the war, then you have no reason to criticise Taiwan or their allies cause they're simply still fighting the war. Also, if the cold statement "the winner dictates the terms" is your way out, then you have no reason to reject the saying that he who pays the piper dictates the tone. In other words, you can't be complaining when America plays the big brother in world affairs only to keep mum when they contribute the highest to some world organizations or when they reach out to the poorer countries via bodies like the USAID (which contributed to the Taiwan Miracle).
Again, before you make this the core of your argument again, I am not saying the US should dictate for other countries cause of thier economic power. I only reminded you that simply supporting China on grounds of the cold statement "the winner must dictate the terms" is a self destructive argument cause that implies supporting the resistance for not wanting to be the loser and also supporting the payer of the piper (the US) to dictate the tone. My point remains that, at this point, the most logical thing to do is to let the people of Taiwan have the final say. I am not American and I do not need to be pro-American to be logical. Forcing the people of Taiwan back to PRC is tantamount to slavery not just because they'll be part of the country against their wish or because China will treat them any differently from the rest of the country, but simply because slavery is the only term to describe forcing someone under an authoritarian leadership against their wish. Like I said, the world has gone beyond that.
NB: Please, for the sake the decorum we've enjoyed so far, be mindful of the words you use in your argument.
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|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by Krismas(m): 5:06pm On Oct 07|
WoundedLamb:The argument of letting the people of Taiwan decide, is FRAUDULENT. Cos so far, it has been the people of America thats been deciding. While I may agree with u, that the KMT has a right to continue the fight for control of China, I believe their slavish association with the US, proves how truly guilty they are for almost selling China to western powers while they were in control in Beijing. The Taiwan miracle is another falsehood cos KMT with the help of America looted all the wealth of China while fleeing to Taiwan. The CPC had nothing to start their government with, they had to borrow money from Russia. It was that bad. Today, CPC has made China the second largest economy in the world, lifted millions out of poverty, reclaimed many of the Chinese territories KMT sold to foreigners and has indeed made China an envy among nations. Wot then did u say KMT achieved within the same period thats miracle? Americans are not helping the world anything! They make war on nations so they can steal resources from them. They use agencies like USAID u mentioned to spy on other nations, like the wiretap they did on the Germans during Obama’s presidency. They do all those things to further their selfish interests. Right from day one, America prefer KMT in China cos CPC will not allow them to steal and cheat China. Today they are asking the UN to make Taiwan an OBSERVER NATION? So u can see, dividing China have always been America’s goal. U can’t therefore say let the people decide. America was the only country that voted against Palestinian statehood at the UN and now, the only country wanting to make Taiwan a nation of its own. Here is my point. Their actions in Taiwan, make war with China inevitable. Wen Americans left Afghanistan, they took those who wanted to leave with them. They did not select a remote part of Afghanistan as relocation site for them, nor saying that the new site wud be the Afghanistan they wud recognize and subsequently asking the UN to grant the new Afghanistan, nationhood of its own. There is none of these conditions the Taliban wud have agreed to. The CPC have been too calm and patient, guess thats why the Americans see it as weakness. When eventually the war start, just like the Korean War, be rest assured the Americans asked for it. They have it long time coming
|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by Hanks0000(m): 8:30pm On Oct 07|
Finally, someone who knows history.. Thank you for this..
|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by WoundedLamb: 1:25am On Oct 08|
Sorry, I couldn't read everything. The absence of paragraphs makes me dizzy. I scanned through the text nevertheless and did not see any justification for not wanting the people of Taiwan to decide thier own fate. You're against this because you already know what the people want. The US is merely supporting that decision. If the people of Taiwan say they want to be part of China today, you think the US will hold them back?
And please, let's not just say things because we want to make points. If you know about the Taiwan Miracle, you'd know it is impractical to slightly suggest it was just a pre-existing loot from Mainland China. When was the Taiwan Miracle and when did they loot China? The timeframe and situation of the country before the economic boom is enough to dispute this claim. Thier economy is one of the most studied mid level economies in the world. There are, therefore, reports, exposés, research papers, etc. eaching studying the different factors that contributed to the economic boom. You can take a look at any. China was no where to be found when these guys were having hard times but today, they want to forcefully take over Asia's 10th largest economy. That's laughable.
The association of Taiwan with the western world only goes to show why they rejected the communist party in the first place; they're not willing to accept their level of authoritarianism. It does not prove anything asides this. It's only logical that they get along with the side that share their values. If Nigeria splits today, the North will associate more with the Middle East while the South will associate with the West. If China has achieved all you've mentioned while Taiwan has nothing, why are they still hell bent on taking over the region? This same CPC were once the resistance before the Civil war. If they had lost, they would have been the ones seeking independence. Now they believe they won, so it's thier right to take over the losers just like you said earlier. But like I said, the war is not over. The fact that the US is supporting Taiwan aside, this is an extension of the Chinese Civil War and it's still ongoing. If the people of Taiwan do not want to go back to China, thier choice must be respected.
Let me ask you, if a new government forcefully takes over Nigeria today and forces the Islamic rule on the nation, it's only natural that the SE will want to go thier way, right? Now if the US comes to the aid of SE at this point, would you also say they should mind thier business? Please, regardless of how you view this, the people should be given a choice. We can argue this forever buy there's no superior argument to freedom/choice. Even if the US has their motives, the Taiwanese should still have the final say.
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|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by Krismas(m): 6:57am On Oct 08|
WoundedLamb:I Sincerely don even know why am arguing with a western lapdog like u, that swallow everything told by the west hook line and sinker. In ur arrogance and the useless NB u keep NB-ing me, u can’t even see dat am using a phone to chat not laptop with no luxury of paragraphs? If Taiwanese people are the ones to decide, where does that leave the Chinese people? Am sure they have no say! The land upon which Taiwan sits, belong to China, so, I say let China have it. Whether CPC or KMT no matter, China is all that matters. The Americans are too small to breakup a country all for greed and theft sake. To conclude, I have nothing to learn from u about the matter. America owes China money they cannot even afford to repay. China is a lender to EU and several African countries. All from nothing, after been robbed and looted for years with the help of that useless KMT! Still u tell me abt Taiwan miracle? U very ignorant and the likes of u, is reason why wars will never cease on the earth. I pray u’l be around and well the day China takes Taiwan and the American to the cleaners. U and America can den do ur worst. Bye
|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by Krismas(m): 9:18am On Oct 08|
For sake of those who might start believing the American lies about letting the PEOPLE of Taiwan decide either to join China or remain autonomous. The PEOPLE of Taiwan are not a PEOPLE as defined by UN. The are just a political party wit their loyalists and others fleeing justice from the new government in Beijing. The place they currently occupy is not INDIGENOUS to them, nor is it their ancestral homeland. In recent times, the population of Taiwan has even grown more dubious, with migrants and others that cannot be categorized as Chinese Nationals. Taiwanese population is wot can be called a RE-ENGINEERED PEOPLE and there is only one way they will vote I.e for autonomy! That is why America is pushing for it. After failing to help the political party called KMT regain the control of China, after failing to convince the rest of the world to take the KMT as the real CHINA, they are now pushing to make Taiwan a separate country of its own.
|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by NobleRace: 1:57pm On Oct 08|
This is a fact you can't dispute.
|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by WoundedLamb: 11:36pm On Oct 08|
Lol... this degenerated faster than the value of Naira. If you couldn't add paragraphs for any reason, you could have just said so the first I mentioned that instead of ignoring it and making it look as if you were delibrately making your texts unreadable.
I've not even said anything that suggests I stand with the US and their activities even know you've made series of efforts to make this all about the US. From all indications, you're so anti-US that you don't really care who gets hurts provided the US loses out. You're only seeing a China vs US picture with little to no regards to the occupants of Taiwan. That's why you can afford to say the land belongs to China, let the Chinese have it. I wonder if the people who live there now are Americans. The truth is, the land belongs to the people occupying it. It belongs to the government of Taiwan. CPC has succeeded to taking control of the Mainland but that doesn't mean Taiwan automatically belongs to them. The best they can do is to keep fighting for control, and likewise, Taiwan has every reason to resist using all they have including allies. Forcefully keeping a group of people under an authoritarian leadership is nothing but slavery.
You're already calling names and that's the lane I can't drag with you. Just know that the only power China has over the US is their carefree attitude towards human rights. But if it ever burns down to war, they can neither stand the war experience of the US military nor their technologies. As for the world power that CPC is out to get by hook or by crook, they better be ready to make the sacrifices the US has made to get here or forget about it and stick to their closed culture. Take this from a Chinese/Confucius student in North America.
Now, your bye better be bye cause I ain't responding any argument riddled with ad hominem.
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|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by Hanks0000(m): 7:14am On Oct 11|
Wow... Sensible people are still on Nairaland..
|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by WoundedLamb: 1:24pm On Oct 11|
Merci beaucoup, mon patron. Je souhaite que le monde s'améliore pour que nous n'ayons aucune raison d'avoir ces arguments.
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|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by Hanks0000(m): 2:21pm On Oct 11|
Vous êtes le patron, je vois comment vous gérez la situation. Il n'y a pas beaucoup de peuple civil.
Je veux poser une question...
|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by WoundedLamb: 2:52pm On Oct 11|
Apparemment, oui. Je suis québécois.
|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by Hanks0000(m): 6:54am On Oct 12|
C'est bon.... Je suis étudiant de français a l'université T'ai solarin... Je viens d'un nouve étudiant...
Enchanté de vous rencontrer.... Je ve suivre votre compte.
|Re: Chinese Air Force Sends Another 56 Warplanes Toward Taiwan by WoundedLamb: 3:16pm On Oct 12|
Nice. Your French is great for a new student!! If you don't mind, please, let me make a few corrections. We say:
"Je suis étudiante en français à l'université de T'ai Solarin. Je suis juste un nouvel étudiant."
NB1: We use "en" when talking about the course of study. You can say "je suis un étudiant de T'ai Solarin..." cause you're allowed to use "de" when talking about the school (which made me use the indefinit article "un").
NB2: The construct "venir de" can only be followed by an infinitive verb as in "je vien d'arriver" but never by a noun or noun phrase. If the next word is a noun or a noun phrase, just use "juste".
NB3: The word "nouveau" becomes "nouvel" when followed by a masculine word that starts with a vowel sound.
I'm NOT a French teacher, so forgive me if I ended up confusing you. Lol.
Vous pouvez suivre mon compte mais attention, mes opinions sont inhabituelles; vous n'aimez peut-être pas toujours ce que vous lisez.
Je suis aussi ravi de vous rencontrer !
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