cornelboy:


If you can't quote the scriptures to support your idea, I will have stop responding to you.

How did Jesus come to existence?

I already did. See it again below. Even JW doctored Bible acknowledges He was there at the beginning.
That, my friend, makes him God!
The same one God that said "Let us" (In the original Hebrew God is always plural)

PoliteActivist:

Quite a few. Those that don't, it's NOT because of the minor inconsistencies but due to differing interpretations and understanding.

Perhaps you don't know what it means for people from different races and backgrounds to "have the same line of thought"

Well it simply means nothing can make them raise weapons against one another! Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

Do you know any other group of worshipers who have settled all their disparities without the use of force or weapons?

PoliteActivist:

Don't be confused. Moses directly asked God His name. He only said one name, I AM, which Lord Jesus also used to refer to Himself.
His personal name is certainly NOT Jehovah!

Well that's where we can never agree because my own God has a personal name {Exodus 6:2-3; Psalms 83:18} and Jesus emphasized on that name! John 17:6, 26

I already did. See it again below. Even JW doctored Bible acknowledges He was there at the beginning.

No one denies that Jesus is a God. He's a mighty God.
John 1:1 clearly shows that Jehovah GOD and Jesus are two distinct beings.

He was there at the beginning of what?
What's the beginning?

That, my friend, makes him God!

You learned that from the Bible or you just assumed it?

The same one God that said "Let us" (In the original Hebrew God is always plural)

Stop your assumptions baba. One God can't be talking to himself.
From the scriptures we see that Jesus was the one doing the creation for God. Yet God Himself is the creator.

John 1:3
[3]God created everything through him,
    and nothing was created except through him.

Definitely God was talking to Jesus the master worker and maybe some angels were there too.
Genesis 1:26
[26]Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us......"

El is the root word for God in Hebrew, which means mighty/strong one. Elohim is the plural for El and it's often used for God qualitatively not quantitatively.
In Hebrew a tree can be referred to as "one trees" to show the quality of the tree.

So when Elohim is used for God it doesn't mean God is two.
The Israelites didn't take God as more than one person. Jehovah is one singular person {GOD}

PoliteActivist:

PoliteActivist:


Don't be confused. Moses directly asked God His name. He only said one name, I AM, which Lord Jesus also used to refer to Himself.
His personal name is certainly NOT Jehovah!

Exodus 6:2-3
[2]And God said to Moses, “I am Yahweh—‘the lord.’
[3]I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as El-Shaddai—‘God Almighty’—but I did not reveal my name, Yahweh, to them.

Jesus didn't claim God's name.

cornelboy:


Exodus 6:2-3
[2]And God said to Moses, “I am Yahweh—‘the lord.’
[3]I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as El-Shaddai—‘God Almighty’—but I did not reveal my name, Yahweh, to them.

Jesus didn't claim God's name.

You just repeated what I said. See below

cornelboy:


No one denies that Jesus is a God. He's a mighty God.
John 1:1 clearly shows that Jehovah GOD and Jesus are two distinct beings.

He was there at the beginning of what?
What's the beginning?


You learned that from the Bible or you just assumed it?



Stop your assumptions baba. One God can't be talking to himself.
From the scriptures we see that Jesus was the one doing the creation for God. Yet God Himself is the creator.

John 1:3
[3]God created everything through him,
    and nothing was created except through him.

Definitely God was talking to Jesus the master worker and maybe some angels were there too.
Genesis 1:26
[26]Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us......"

El is the root word for God in Hebrew, which means mighty/strong one. Elohim is the plural for El and it's often used for God qualitatively not quantitatively.
In Hebrew a tree can be referred to as "one trees" to show the quality of the tree.

So when Elohim is used for God it doesn't mean God is two.
The Israelites didn't take God as more than one person. Jehovah is one singular person {GOD}

Can't you see you can't say "a God" and at same time claim to be a Christian. You are more like the Hindus or ancient Greeks.
A basic tenet of Christianity is MONOTHEISM!
WE only have one God "of different persons". It can't really be explained in human terms, just know that Lord Jesus is part of the one true God
Can't you see the only way what you're saying

[quote author=cornelboy post=111159713]

Jesus didn't claim God's name

See below, then go educate other JW's

PoliteActivist:


Can't you see you can't say "a God" and at same time claim to be a Christian. You are more like the Hindus or ancient Greeks.
A basic tenet of Christianity is MONOTHEISM!
WE only have one God "of different persons". It can't really be explained in human terms, just know that Lord Jesus is part of the one true God
Can't you see the only way what you're saying

One God and different person ain't a biblical term. This dogma was established after the death of the early apostle of Christ.
Constantine and his Nicene perverts weren't inspired but were on hot debate. Go check Christian history well.

The early church understand only the Father to be the one true GOD and Jesus to be the Messiah and the son of God.

You will never see God the son in the Bible, it was brought by confused people like you.

Jehovah is one person!

Trinitarians are so desperate, they use anything outside the scriptures to support their pseudo doctrines.

Did the Bible teach that you must believe in one God different persons or Christ is part of Godhead before you can be a Christian or be saved?
Pls why are you adding to the word of God?

[quote author=PoliteActivist post=111161511][/quote]

Lol I said earlier Trinitarians are very desperate.
John 8:58
[58]Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, i am!”

How did Jesus claim God's name "I am" here?

Jesus was explaining something about his existence to the Jews that before Abraham was born he is already existing, is that hard to grasp?

If he wanted to claim the name he would have said "I am the I AM".

Now let's say "I AM" means Yahweh:
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, Yahweh!"
Did that make any sense to you?

No doubt that the same Hebrew word used for God's "I AM" is the same use for I am (I'm) generally in other sentences.

In the sentence "I am the light of the world", Jesus was literally saying he's the light of the world, he wasn't claiming God sacred name!

I can say "I am Cornelius", I ain't claiming God's name na

Only Jehovah GOD is the "I AM".

cornelboy:



One God and different person ain't a biblical term. This dogma was established after the death of the early apostle of Christ.
Constantine and his Nicene perverts weren't inspired but were on hot debate. Go check Christian history well.

The early church understand only the Father to be the one true GOD and Jesus to be the Messiah and the son of God.

You will never see God the son in the Bible, it was brought by confused people like you.

Jehovah is one person!

Trinitarians are so desperate, they use anything outside the scriptures to support their pseudo doctrines.

Did the Bible teach that you must believe in one God different persons or Christ is part of Godhead before you can be a Christian or be saved?
Pls why are you adding to the word of God?

I refer you to your friend Maxi - he was partially right: the truth of God always wins. Except that he thought God does it by micro-managing. Go and read your history. The "Jesus is NOT God" people were actually winning after Nicene. They gained influence and even the Emperor became one. But of course God intervened and they declined, then disappeared - and God's truth won out as usual. Read your history - don't stop with Constantine and Nicene. "Jesus is God" is actually shocking to the average thinking person - totally unacceptable. How can this poor carpenter with neither influence nor money nor large following nor high education be God??!! Except, it is the TRUTH!!!

cornelboy:


Lol I said earlier Trinitarians are very desperate.
John 8:58
[58]Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, i am!”

How did Jesus claim God's name "I am" here?

Jesus was explaining something about his existence to the Jews that before Abraham was born he is already existing, is that hard to grasp?

If he wanted to claim the name he would have said "I am the I AM".

Now let's say "I AM" means Yahweh:
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, Yahweh!"
Did that make any sense to you?

No doubt that the same Hebrew word used for God's "I AM" is the same use for I am (I'm) generally in other sentences.

In the sentence "I am the light of the world", Jesus was literally saying he's the light of the world, he wasn't claiming God sacred name!

I can say "I am Cornelius", I ain't claiming God's name na

Only Jehovah GOD is the "I AM".

See, this is why you shouldn't take Bible verses in isolation nor give them superficial meanings. Here you are 2000 years later trying to put a spin on what was clear. Do you know how many millions of words must have been exchanged that you know nothing about?
“I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I AM!” is obviously not grammatically correct but the PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE understood what He was saying immediately - because there were words and events that led up to that.
Once again, millions of words were said, only a few made it into the Bible. People who were with Lord Jesus wrote "and the Word was God". You don't come 2000 years later and, based on the few words that made it into the Bible, know better than them!

cornelboy:

One God and different person ain't a biblical term. This dogma was established after the death of the early apostle of Christ.
Constantine and his Nicene perverts weren't inspired but were on hot debate. Go check Christian history well.
The early church understand only the Father to be the one true GOD and Jesus to be the Messiah and the son of God.
You will never see God the son in the Bible, it was brought by confused people like you.
Jehovah is one person!
Trinitarians are so desperate, they use anything outside the scriptures to support their pseudo doctrines.
Did the Bible teach that you must believe in one God different persons or Christ is part of Godhead before you can be a Christian or be saved?
Pls why are you adding to the word of God?

When Jesus said:

"By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit" Matthew 7:16-18

The guy wants to authenticate what he's saying by quoting reference materials from different sources. But what is the FRUIT that makes authors of his source materials credible?
They simply makes references but there's no positive fruit to prove that God's Holy Spirit is working with them! James 2:18-26

MaxInDHouse:


When Jesus said:

"By their fruits you will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? Likewise, every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit. A good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, nor can a rotten tree produce fine fruit" Matthew 7:16-18

The guy wants to authenticate what he's saying by quoting reference materials from different sources. But what is the FRUIT that makes authors of his source materials credible?
They simply makes references but there's no positive fruit to prove that God's Holy Spirit is working with them! James 2:18-26

We are discussing the deity of Lord Jesus. But if you want to change to fruits, look around you, all the mission schools, translations of the Bible, etc missionaries, etc that helped bring your people out of pagan worship, how many are from JW??

PoliteActivist:

We are discussing the deity of Lord Jesus. But if you want to change to fruits, look around you, all the mission schools, translations of the Bible, etc missionaries, etc that helped bring your people out of pagan worship, how many are from JW??

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm,
Thank you Jehovah's Witnesses, my God will bless you guys for locating me!

Mission schools, translations of the Bible and missionaries that you mentioned, which is able to produce the fruitage of God's Holy Spirit? Matthew 7:16-18

Jehovah's Witnesses came and LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, GOODNESS, GENTLENESS, FAITH, MILDNESS and SELF-CONTROL reign among only their own members? Galatians 5:22-23

Throughout the whole world people are still carrying weapons against their fellowman due to politics and racism {Revelations 6:3-4} all religions are involved including those people trained by your so called mission schools, translations of Bibles and missionaries.
Only Jehovah's Witnesses have successfully erased politics, military services and racism in the hearts of millions associating with them.

So if you don't know what it means to produce fruit know today that it's not about things that people come together to establish but the result of their establishment as in the end product of their faith! James 2:18-26

MaxInDHouse:


Hmmmmmmmmmmmm,
Thank you Jehovah's Witnesses, my God will bless you guys for locating me!

Mission schools, translations of the Bible and missionaries that you mentioned, which is able to produce the fruitage of God's Holy Spirit? Matthew 7:16-18

Jehovah's Witnesses came and LOVE, JOY, PEACE, PATIENCE, GOODNESS, GENTLENESS, FAITH, MILDNESS and SELF-CONTROL reign among only their own members? Galatians 5:22-23

Throughout the whole world people are still carrying weapons against their fellowman due to politics and racism {Revelations 6:3-4} all religions are involved including those people trained by your so called mission schools, translations of Bibles and missionaries.
Only Jehovah's Witnesses have successfully erased politics, military services and racism in the hearts of millions associating with them.

So if you don't know what it means to produce fruit know today that it's not about things that people come together to establish but the result of their establishment as in the end product of their faith! James 2:18-26

You come to a place cleaned and Christianised by selfless missionaries without resort to cultist mind control methods and start talking about fruits. Without the administrative and defense systems put in place you'd today be learning Arabic and waiting patiently for your 72 virgins!

PoliteActivist:

You come to a place cleaned and Christianised by selfless missionaries without resort to cultist mind control methods and start talking about fruits. Without the administrative and defense systems put in place you'd today be learning Arabic and waiting patiently for your 72 virgins!

OK you want to travel back down memory lane shey?
Well it's Catholics in the third century the same people that brought the mission schools that started killing people for their religion (crusaders) and that's what Muhammad knew before he himself began doing exactly the same thing claiming it's for the same God.
Had it been Muhammad only knew peaceful preachers and teachers of God's word the way Jesus commissioned it there can't be any religion in the name of Abraham going about forcing their beliefs on people.
The Israelites never forced their religion on anyone rather it's the same missionaries that started with force.

Jesus' return in 1914 changed the whole thing that's why Jehovah's Witnesses are now doing exactly what Jesus commissioned back in the first century and the result of true faith is seen today globally! Matthew 5:14-16; 7:16-18


So there can't be terrorism in propagation of faith if not what your so called missionaries introduced to the world each religion would have maintained their domain just as Buddhists, Hindus and others stayed in their territories.

Only Jesus Christ of Nazareth ordered his disciples to go and PREACH (PLEAD) with people of all nations {Matthew 28:19-20} he never asked them to force their beliefs on anyone through crusades! Luke 9:51-56

MaxInDHouse:


OK you want to travel back down memory lane shey?
Well it's Catholics in the third century the same people that brought the mission schools that started killing people for their religion (crusaders) and that's what Muhammad knew before he himself began doing exactly the same thing claiming it's for the same God.
Had it been Muhammad only knew peaceful preachers and teachers of God's word the way Jesus commissioned it there can't be any religion in the name of Abraham going about forcing their beliefs on people.
The Israelites never forced their religion on anyone rather it's the same missionaries that started with force.

Jesus' return in 1914 changed the whole thing that's why Jehovah's Witnesses are now doing exactly what Jesus commissioned back in the first century and the result of true faith is seen today globally! Matthew 5:14-16; 7:16-18


So there can't be terrorism in propagation of faith if not what your so called missionaries introduced to the world each religion would have maintained their domain just as Buddhists, Hindus and others stayed in their territories.

Only Jesus Christ of Nazareth ordered his disciples to go and PREACH (PLEAD) with people of all nations {Matthew 28:19-20} he never asked them to force their beliefs on anyone through crusades! Luke 9:51-56

You are soo misinformed my brother on so many levels. No, the crusades were not 3rd century. See below. And if it weren't for those crusades, it's extremely likely you'd be a Muslim right now.
As for JW, I have no doubt one day your eyes will open. Until then, if it works 4 ya, be a good one

PoliteActivist:

You are soo misinformed my brother on so many levels. No, the crusades were not 3rd century. See below. And if it weren't for those crusades, it's extremely likely you'd be a Muslim right now.
As for JW, I have no doubt one day your eyes will open. Until then, if it works 4 ya, be a good one

Go and read about Rome and how the Catholics were going about forcing their cross on people then you'll know who started terrorism between Arabian and Rome.
As for Islam it's what Muhammad and his followers saw the Roman Catholics doing that they imitated. There has never been any religion forced on people before Roman Catholic Church!

MaxInDHouse:


Go and read about Rome and how the Catholics were going about forcing their cross on people then you'll know who started terrorism between Arabian and Rome.
As for Islam it's what Muhammad and his followers saw the Roman Catholics doing that they imitated. There has never been any religion forced on people before Roman Catholic Church!

My brother you are so misinformed. And the sad thing is that it is right on the internet, free to read. See below. Mohammed could neither read nor write, how did he know about Catholic actions against heretics which ended centuries b4 he was born?
Plus, violence against nonbelievers is advocated right there in the Koan.

PoliteActivist:

My brother you are so misinformed. And the sad thing is that it is right on the internet, free to read. See below. Mohammed could neither read nor write, how did he know about Catholic actions against heretics which ended centuries b4 he was born?
Plus, violence against nonbelievers is advocated right there in the Koan.

The first religion to propagate it's beliefs system through violence is the Roman Catholic Church and it continued throughout the dark ages. So forceful convertion continued until America declared FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION SPEECH AND WORSHIP.
So don't be deceived Muhammad never had in mind any religious system until he began travelling to world trade centers with his madam Kadyjat. It's through this business ventures that Muhammad came in contact with different religious ideas from what he used to know in his home country.
Kadyjat (40) herself was a Catholic before she later married Muhammad (25)
So Muhammad knew religious politics through the Roman Catholic Church that's why he tried to introduce it in Mecca. Any intelligent reader will discern that Muhammad had no Revelations he fabricated everything out of the little things he gathered by going from place to place!

MaxInDHouse:


The first religion to propagate it's beliefs system through violence is the Roman Catholic Church and it continued throughout the dark ages. So forceful convertion continued until America declared FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION SPEECH AND WORSHIP.
So don't be deceived Muhammad never had in mind any religious system until he began travelling to world trade centers with his madam Kadyjat. It's through this business ventures that Muhammad came in contact with different religious ideas from what he used to know in his home country.
Kadyjat (40) herself was a Catholic before she later married Muhammad (25)
So Muhammad knew religious politics through the Roman Catholic Church that's why he tried to introduce it in Mecca. Any intelligent reader will discern that Muhammad had no Revelations he fabricated everything out of the little things he gathered by going from place to place!

First of all there was no ROMAN Catholic Church. Secondly history has many forced worships and forced convertiod, even the Bible (see below)

John 1:1
[1]In the beginning the Word already existed.
    The Word was with God,
    and the Word was God.
Clearly this john verse shows that the word, Jesus was God but he's no longer God right?

God is just a title. Anything could be called God. In fact, the Bible teaches that they are many Gods but Yahweh is the one true Almighty GOD.

PoliteActivist:


See, this is why you shouldn't take Bible verses in isolation nor give them superficial meanings. Here you are 2000 years later trying to put a spin on what was clear. Do you know how many millions of words must have been exchanged that you know nothing about?
“I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I AM!” is obviously not grammatically correct but the PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE understood what He was saying immediately - because there were words and events that led up to that.
Once again, millions of words were said, only a few made it into the Bible. People who were with Lord Jesus wrote "and the Word was God". You don't come 2000 years later and, based on the few words that made it into the Bible, know better than them!

PoliteActivist:


I refer you to your friend Maxi - he was partially right: the truth of God always wins. Except that he thought God does it by micro-managing. Go and read your history. The "Jesus is NOT God" people were actually winning after Nicene. They gained influence and even the Emperor became one. But of course God intervened and they declined, then disappeared - and God's truth won out as usual. Read your history - don't stop with Constantine and Nicene. "Jesus is God" is actually shocking to the average thinking person - totally unacceptable. How can this poor carpenter with neither influence nor money nor large following nor high education be God??!! Except, it is the TRUTH!!!

Except it is your assumption.
The true God Yahweh was in heaven while His only begotten son was on earth!

MaxInDHouse:


The first religion to propagate it's beliefs system through violence is the Roman Catholic Church and it continued throughout the dark ages. So forceful convertion continued until America declared FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION SPEECH AND WORSHIP.
So don't be deceived Muhammad never had in mind any religious system until he began travelling to world trade centers with his madam Kadyjat. It's through this business ventures that Muhammad came in contact with different religious ideas from what he used to know in his home country.
Kadyjat (40) herself was a Catholic before she later married Muhammad (25)
So Muhammad knew religious politics through the Roman Catholic Church that's why he tried to introduce it in Mecca. Any intelligent reader will discern that Muhammad had no Revelations he fabricated everything out of the little things he gathered by going from place to place!

Also Khadija, Muhammed's first wife, was never a Christian. See below

cornelboy:
John 1:1
[1]In the beginning the Word already existed.
    The Word was with God,
    and the Word was God.
Clearly this john verse shows that the word, Jesus was God but he's no longer God right?

God is just a title. Anything could be called God. In fact, the Bible teaches that they are many Gods but Yahweh is the one true Almighty GOD.

So now you see why Jesus saying I AM instead of I WAS left no doubt what he meant.
St John is grammatically correct: "We had a baby in 1981, it was a boy" is grammatically correct, doesn't mean he's no longer a boy!

We only have one God in Christianity. Nobody you ever mentioned is part of that ONE God, except one.
Just declare yourself no longer a Christian and practice polytheism on peace!

cornelboy:


Except it is your assumption.
The true God Yahweh was in heaven while His only begotten son was on earth!

Here's the conlusion: PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE believed in Lord Jesus divinity. You can't come 2000 years later, based on the few words that made it down to you via the Bible, know better than them!

If he said I was, it would be grammatically wrong because from the beginning of creation till when he was telling the Jews about his existence he never died, he he's been living.
Jesus was clearly telling them about his existence. The Jews took him as every other normal persons that their life started when they were born.

He can't just say "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am". Make ọnà dé think na.
It's grammatically incorrect to say Jesus used that sentence to claim that he's the "I AM".

PoliteActivist:


So now you see why Jesus saying I AM instead of I WAS left no doubt what he meant.
St John is grammatically correct: "We had a baby in 1981, it was a boy" is grammatically correct, doesn't mean he's no longer a boy!

We only have one God in Christianity. Nobody you ever mentioned is part of that ONE God, except one.
Just declare yourself no longer a Christian and practice polytheism on peace!

PoliteActivist:


Here's the conlusion: PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE believed in Lord Jesus divinity. You can't come 2000 years later, based on the few words that made it down to you via the Bible, know better than them!

Of course Jesus is Divine, no doubt!

cornelboy:
If he said I was, it would be grammatically wrong because from the beginning of creation till when he was telling the Jews about his existence he never died, he he's been living.
Jesus was clearly telling them about his existence. The Jews took him as every other normal persons that their life started when they were born.

He can't just say "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am". Make ọnà dé think na.
It's grammatically incorrect to say Jesus used that sentence to claim that he's the "I AM".

You were not there. People don't say such things in isolation. There were a lifetime of words and events that preceded that statement. People who experienced all that, immediately KNEW what he meant.

Nope. Lord Jesus was there at the beginning of infinity, before there was time. He is, and has always been, part of God, NOT created.

cornelboy:


Of course Jesus is Divine, no doubt!

Meaning JW is polytheist

PoliteActivist:


Meaning JW is polytheist

The Bible itself teaches monolatrism;
We acknowledge the existence of many gods but Jehovah the one true God is Whom we worship.