michelz:

Yes, it doesn't mean much that he wore an outfit similar to that of an Oba of Benin. It could be that he simply copied the Oba's mode of dressing and nothing more. Cultures copy from one another; so it is not strange. Even the present Oba, I bet, has one or two elements in his regalia that he borrowed from somewhere else. It doesn't mean that he is not autonomous.
As per your last statement, honestly, that doesn't count, even slightly.
I was hoping for, maybe, a documented account from a neutral source of how Agbor and Onitsha were once under the sovereignity of Benin.
How about that map you mentioned?

Truthvalue41:

Yeah, "maybe he just copied the Oba of Benin"...
As for your pretending to be blind, a precolonial map of the region is above.

michelz:

What I see in that map of yours are just some markings and drawings with the words " Gabon", "Benin" and others. Nothing there says that all those areas were under Benin ( That is, if we are even to accept that it is the same Benin of our discussion). My point is: that map doesn't cut it at all and every unbiased observer will acknowledge that. Don't tell me that you can't find any shred of reasonable evidence of the claim you made from anywhere on the internet.

michelz:

What I see in that map of yours are just some markings and drawings with the words " Gabon", "Benin" and others. Nothing there says that all those areas were under Benin ( That is, if we are even to accept that it is the same Benin of our discussion). My point is: that map doesn't cut it at all and every unbiased observer will acknowledge that. Don't tell me that you can't find any shred of reasonable evidence of the claim you made from anywhere on the internet.

Truthvalue41:


https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=150215;2
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714/f1.item.r=Royaume%20du%20Benin.zoom

1) I have many more precolonial maps of the region in stock, I am just letting you repeat your "it doesn't mean anything" until you realize you are in denial.

2) what Benin might it be kid ?

michelz:

If you have something worthwhile, why don't you post it instead of running around in circles?
So far, the maps don't support the claim you made.

Truthvalue41:


https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=150215;2
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714/f1.item.r=Royaume%20du%20Benin.zoom

1) I have many more precolonial maps of the region in stock, I am just letting you repeat your "it doesn't mean anything" until you realize you are in denial.

2) what Benin might it be kid ?

So far, your excuses have been:
1)the ancestral uniform if the Obi means nothing
2) the fatherly role played by the Oba of Benin in the coronation of the Obi of Agbor means nothing
3) the oral stories mean nothing
4) the map doesn't cut it


Waiting for your new excuse...

michelz:

These are not excuses. You can't just throw up some picture of the Obi of Agbor dressed in a regalia similar to that of the Oba and claim that he was under the sovereignity of the Oba because of that. There's no where in the academic world it would pass for an evidence. At best, you could say it is a pointer but I could also claim that the Oba copied from the Obi and as such was under the Obi.
As per the so-called oral accounts (that nobody deemed fit to document, even the cartographers of your maps), even a grade one pupil knows that they count for nothing.

Truthvalue41:

1) you still haven't said which Benin it might be
2) you said "Nothing there says that all those areas were under Benin", I have just provided you with a map in which the borders are clearly defined, but it still "doesn't cut it" ? May I know the new reason ?

3) you said "That is, if we are even to accept that it is the same Benin of our discussion", so please, which Benin might it be ?

4) just say no amount of evidence will make you change your mind, you are in denial and facts just don't matter to you.

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=150215;2
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b530530714/f1.item.r=Royaume%20du%20Benin.zoom

Truthvalue41:

Most people who use the expression "academic" didn't do well at school. You keep skipping questions, let me refresh your memory:

michelz:

I asked for simple evidence for your outrageous claims but you'd rather throw infantile insults while spamming everywhere with your meaningless evidence. Where is your evidence that Onitsha and Agbor were under Benin at some time in history?
You think this is your village tales by moonlight where you gather gullible villagers and feed them with lies?

Malawian:

Ordinary Agbor was never under Benin, let alone Onitsha. Even Benin Oba told the Portuguese that Nri Kingdom in the east was the greatest kingdom around there.

michelz:

What I see in that map of yours are just some markings and drawings with the words " Gabon", "Benin" and others. Nothing there says that all those areas were under Benin ( That is, if we are even to accept that it is the same Benin of our discussion). My point is: that map doesn't cut it at all and every unbiased observer will acknowledge that. Don't tell me that you can't find any shred of reasonable evidence of the claim you made from anywhere on the internet.

Efewestern:


Not all Urhobos were of Bini Origin, no ethnic group as big as Urhobo can claim they had a single ancestors. Some urhobo clans had a mixture of Ijaw ancestors, especially those around the Ughelli axis. I made a post about this yesterday.

Several Ijaw clans also had Urhobo ancestors, like the Kiagbodo people. Even the Epie people in Bayelsa were of Urhobo/Edo origin. Migration of people back then was just so inevitable.

So yes, the OP was partially correct.

Cc: SlayerForever

Ujunwaa12:

Oshin56:
ma'am I quote you from another topic, you mail me on job&vacancy post I can't access my e-mail but we can talk on 0eight0five8three4zero2three2

So the Obi of Agbor having the same precolonial uniform as the Oba of Benin and his other vassals means nothing ?

The one sector that hardly gets corrupted is the monarchy.

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8595583b.r=Benin?rk=150215;2

Also, the current Obi of Agbor ascended the throne of his father thanks to the intervention of the Oba of Benin.