Seun:

Most African countries will just seize the lands back at the slightest provocation, so there's no risk really.

Wow! Are you serious Seun? I hope you realize that the current trend of acquiring huge tracts of land at a pittance only reinforces the racist ideology that Africans are dim witted. Kind of makes me remember the partition of Africa and the handshakes between invading Europeans and naive African chiefs that transferred lands to the colonialists. No matter the argument for this travesty, Africans must resist being enslaved for the second time.

I can only scoff at the so called liberal thinking that Africans are shouting themselves hoarse over this matter. Seems to me like Africans like to live in denial. Europeans have managed to brainwashed the so called intelligentsia in Africa to the extent of cheating us in our own land. What is very irritating is that some of us argue blindly in their favour. Investing in a continent is one thing but buying or leasing lands for cheap so you can export food to your citizens is another. The sooner Africans sit up and question the motives behind these buy outs, the better for us.

this has been around for a while. The only new story here is that the supposedly liberal vestiges aka universities are d ones involved in it. as opposed to your usual coorporate companies.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-422469.0.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/22/world/africa/22mali.html

Seun:

Most African countries will just seize the lands back at the slightest provocation, so there's no risk really.

are you being sarcastic or what?  
just like we seized our lands back after a whole century of colonization abi?
and how the ppl living in niger delta region have seized their land back from the western oil companies.

this your obsession with capitalism is getting out of hand pa.

manny4life:


Did u say already or they it's started, which one? Food prices are on the high now; it's just a matter of time before it skyrockets. I don't know how they will take their lands back, probably use Voodoo I guess

Food prices are on the high simply because inflation is on the high----that's why there's something called economic cycles!!!

Hypothetically, you employ labor, resource et.al to produce a ton of Cocoa for $150.00 per ton and export at that same amount for $150 as a raw material, and when it get to U.S., they sell it for like $300 and if it’s processed, can be sold for up to $500, as you can see they have circumvented the extra $150.00 if exported raw and up to $350.00 if processed. However, if you own your land and trade at a commodity exchange, you will sell at least up to $250.00, that $100 is left for you and vice versa if processed. The same will apply in the taxes

I don't really get what you are trying to explain, but trading on the exchange and taking physical possession are both the same.  A buyer buying at spot price on the exchange will have to pay brokers fee and trading commissions, while someone taking physical possession will have to pay cost of carry. . . .in the end, the laws of one price and arbitrage will eventually force the price at the on the exchange as well as that in physical trading to be the same

violent:


How?. . . .If a company owns an arable land where corn is being cultivated on a large scale.  The government can always force such companies to sell to locals by placing a ban on corn exports, that's simple really.

The reality is that these tracts of land are being used to grow crops for export only - that is the deal, they are not being grown for domestic african consumers, if you watch one of those videos, you will see that the deal that the president of ethiopia entered into with some american hedge funds and other agribusinesses ended up benefitting only the foreign investor (and possibly the african officials who got their own cut from the deal) but not the indigenous ethiiopians - the contract did not secure jobs for indigenous ethiopians, compensation for displaced farmers or even a share of the food being grown.

Local farmers will only be able to produce on a very small scale, why else do you suppose that will all the lands available to us in Nigeria, we still import stuffs like rice?

we import rice because of the nigerian govts failure to diversify the economy and plough money into large scale agriculture.

If there are foreign investors that are willing to produce such a commodity in large quantities, and they are asking to buy lands, why the fúck not?

if you are giving away large tracts of land without having the ability to produce your own food on a large scale you become vulnerable to those who do grow food  - in this instance the large foreign agri businesses, this means that these countries can hold you to ransom whenever they feell like because they now have a monopoly on the food supply and therefore if these countries decide to put the price of their finished products up you are forced to buy them because you do not have a sufficiently developed domestic agricultural industry.

this the problem with the U.S, they are very greedy, they only believe in giving aid and making nations totally dependent on them, china on the other hand builds infrastructure, you rarely see them, but their effort at salvaging any nation is noticed in infrastructural development, that is why the Americans are scared of china venturing into Africa. but i can tell you China is the next world power and would that would not only be a problem for the U.S but also for buttttt Licckerrrrs like Britain and Germany.

Jenifa_:


are you being sarcastic or what?  
just like we seized our lands back after a whole century of colonization abi?
and how the ppl living in niger delta region have seized their land back from the western oil companies.

this your obsession with capitalism is getting out of hand pa.

I hope he is being sarcastic too,

if you are giving away large tracts of land without having the ability to produce your own food on a large scale you become vulnerable to those who do grow food  - in this instance the large foreign agri businesses, this means that these countries can hold you to ransom whenever they feell like because they now have a monopoly on the food supply and therefore if these countries decide to put the price of their finished products up you are forced to buy them because you do not have a sufficiently developed domestic agricultural industry.

If you have a company that runs a monopoly market in rice sale.

Let's say I for instance, being the president. I've observed that rice has gone out in supply, i simply declare a ban on exportation of rice. . .what it will mean is that you will have to sell your rice tothe local market, and NO, you simply can't increase your price, cos if you do, investors in the local market will take advantage of that opportunity to import rice and sell at a price that is ridiculously lower than yours. so in essence, it's either you watch your inventory get bigger without turnover or you simply sell at a price that is competitive for market rates.


What many of you guys are failing to realize is that most of these firms, by investing in economies outside their own, face a lot of political risk as well, at the same time, it doesn't make any sense that a company can produce food commodities ----for export only!!. if their is a short supply in local markets!

violent:

Food prices are on the high simply because inflation is on the high----that's why there's something called economic cycles!!!

I don't really get what you are trying to explain, but trading on the exchange and taking physical possession are both the same.  A buyer buying at spot price on the exchange will have to pay brokers fee and trading commissions, while someone taking physical possession will have to pay cost of carry. . . .in the end, the laws of one price and arbitrage will eventually force the price at the on the exchange as well as that in physical trading to be the same

Dude, Inflation plays it's own part besides, how much % inflation are we talking about again? Obviously when you pricing, you have to account for inflation cost but my point is inflation isn't the problem . Inflation doen not change daily, so when I go to the grocery store to buy bread, bread I bought for $2.50 is now $3.05, are you trying to convince me that the extra $0.55 is inflationary cost?

I know that and what your explaining is not what I'm talking about. You talking trading term besides that's why I said $250 because you have to acknowledge other cost associated with it; however, what I'm trying to say is if a local trader trades himself because he owns the land and does it himself, he gets wealthier in the long run as opposed to if run by foreigners who rather export the products and at the same cheap production cost and pay less taxes to the govt. Then export the product to make bigger gains,

Dude I'm about to leave my office, will talk to yall when next I get online hopefully in the next few hrs.

this is serious. The leases are too long, and are being sold without care future consequences. what a continent. I know for sure that local people would be forced out of their lands. It if happened in kwara, why wont it happen in south sudan. Men guys wise up. If state is selling off this lands, without care, then state ownership of land should come to serious question.

Dude, Inflation plays it's own part besides, how much % inflation are we talking about again? Obviously when you pricing, you have to account for inflation cost but my point is inflation isn't the problem . Inflation doen not change daily, so when I go to the grocery store to buy bread, bread I bought for $2.50 is now $3.05, are you trying to convince me that the extra $0.55 is inflationary cost?

Here's the breakdown

Commodities are priced in dollars;

An increase in inflation means a decrease in the value of a dollar.

The dollar and commodity prices have an inverse relationship, When dollars decrease in value, commodity prices increase!

I really don't see what the big deal is. Africans have had the options of educating themselves yet they refuse to do so.

One basic fact is that land unlike other assets cannot be moved to some other location. If these Africans are not intelligent enough to produce enough food to feed themselves, (for some reason, famines over the last 10 - 20 years mostly occur in Africa), then they should make way for those who can. Hopefully, these investors will help in developing some infrastructure even if it is just to aid food distribution since Africans and their governments are patently unable to do so.

Who knows? They may employ those Africans or have a freer hand in testing their genetically modified crops.

The ball is still in the court of these Africans for now.

Many Africans, including Nigerians, are ignorant of this land deals.

Many Nigerians are happy that land is currently worth millions of Naira in Lekki and Abuja. I have one simple question.

Who are really buying these lands worth millions of Naira in Abuja and Lagos?

This question may sound like I am insane but the reality is that some of these lands are already in the hands of colonial masters in the form of Asset and Investment.

And majority of Nigerians cannot afford to buy the lands anymore.

Watch out, Colonial masters are getting ready to make us systematic slaves all over again.

Well, so when they milk Africa finish, where will they go? Cause war and everybody kpamut! God Almighty is not asleep. He gives knowledge to who He wills. One day, Africa will be ruled by a set of leaders who will be very intelligent and liberate Africa. Ghaddaffi is one intelligent guy, but some semi-literate people see him as a bad ruler. He set aside money to liberate Africa, but Egyptian revolution provided a cloud for the Europeans to come in and destroy Africa a bit.
Qattara was put in by French, our people are hailing. I pity Africa. Living in UK has opened my eyes to the policies of these western governments as regards Africa. They do not care one bit about us. Simple. You can kill 1 billion Africans as long as you give 10 billion dollars to a western government concession. You dont need to worry about PR. BBC will praise you. They will return a few millions in AIDS.
However, the events of Egypt will certainly happen across Africa one day. We will wake up and become anti-western. Until then, let them tap us more. We will come back for it.

violent:


If you have a company that runs a monopoly market in rice sale.

Let's say I for instance, being the president. I've observed that rice has gone out in supply, i simply declare a ban on exportation of rice. . .what it will mean is that you will have to sell your rice tothe local market, and NO, you simply can't increase your price, cos if you do, investors in the local market will take advantage of that opportunity to import rice and sell at a price that is ridiculously lower than yours. so in essence, it's either you watch your inventory get bigger without turnover or you simply sell at a price that is competitive for market rates.


What many of you guys are failing to realize is that most of these firms, by investing in economies outside their own, face a lot of political risk as well, at the same time, i[b]t doesn't make any sense that a company can produce food commodities ----for export only!!.[/b] if their is a short supply in local markets!

* lf for some weird reason the saudis ran low on supply and king abdullah decides to turn off the tap for crude oil, what do you think will happen?
*the catch with most of these deals is that the produce is for export only!!!
So our land and our people are used to feed their nation. To those that think that western governments and western corporations are different entities please have a rethink.

These tracts of land are NOT being acquired for the purposes of agriculture BUT natural resources therein.


Violent, in this case, your theory is wrong. WHY?

As individuals, you can sell your land to the highest bidder. BUT, a sane government would rather buy them up instead of compromising national security just like that.



Do you really know what it means to own your land? One way or the other, they own your country.

Land is the only factor of production that is fixed in supply.

In a sane society, there will be an outcry.

Foreign are buying your land and you think it's cool. Dude, don't be fooled by those economics principles you studied.

For some reason, people don't wonder who is selling or leasing the lands.

Mr. Violent makes an excellent point, which is - without capital, there's really nothing that gets done. That's why despite the yawning demand for power (energy) - one of the most important factors of productivity and wealth creation - Nigeria is still stuck at producing a measly 4,000 MW. Opportunities abound in Nigeria and all over Africa, but without capital none of those opportunities can be tapped.

Considering the infrastructure deficit across the continent, sufficient capital has to be attracted from outside. Capital that is often backed by a country's GDP. In Nigeria, all the proceeds from oil over the last 50 years would still not be enough to significantly provide the infrastructure that will be the basis of a rapidly developing economy. The point Mr. Violent is making is that realistically, in order to attract capital despite the associated risk (see Telkom Multilinks adventure), the initial deals will likely appear predatory; however, as market forces begin to take hold and the respective economies develop, more of that capital will come through local vehicles and some from local investors and therefore more capital will be retained locally. The government's role is to ensure that policies and regulations are crafted to protect the local population.

A lot of the points people are raising about predatory practices are valid but do not overshadow the bottom line that the capital is required from somewhere (except locally, where it is not available) to grow African economies and lift people out of poverty.

thehomer:

For some reason, people don't wonder who is selling or leasing the lands.

" bla bla bla the government" just cuz its the government doing it doesnt mean ppl dont have a right to complain.

Anyone defending this is just DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB. Even more DUMB than the impedes who are selling the land in Africa.

can you guys not do simple math? stop trying to sound smart, there is nothing smart about this. Africa is full of ido[i]it[/i]s who think they are intelligent.

allhavoc:

Mr. Violent makes an excellent point, which is - without capital, there's really nothing that gets done. That's why despite the yawning demand for power (energy) - one of the most important factors of productivity and wealth creation - Nigeria is still stuck at producing a measly 4,000 MW. Opportunities abound in Nigeria and all over Africa, but without capital none of those opportunities can be tapped.

Considering the infrastructure deficit across the continent, sufficient capital has to be attracted from outside. Capital that is often backed by a country's GDP. In Nigeria, all the proceeds from oil over the last 50 years would still not be enough to significantly provide the infrastructure that will be the basis of a rapidly developing economy. The point Mr. Violent is making is that realistically, in order to attract capital despite the associated risk (see Telkom Multilinks adventure), the initial deals will likely appear predatory; as market forces begin to take hold and the respective economies develop, more of that capital will come through local vehicles and some from local investors and therefore more capital will be retained locally. The government's role is to ensure that policies and regulations are crafted to protect the local population.

A lot of the points people are raising about predatory practices are valid but do not overshadow the bottom line that the capital is required from somewhere (except locally, where it is not available) to grow African economies and lift people out of poverty.

This is[b] LAND[/b] we're talking about, guys.

This is different from your[i] normal[/i] investment. You are done for by selling your land

ola_pluto:

Well, so when they milk Africa finish, where will they go? Cause war and everybody kpamut! God Almighty is not asleep. He gives knowledge to who He wills. One day, Africa will be ruled by a set of leaders who will be very intelligent and liberate Africa. Ghaddaffi is one intelligent guy, but some semi-literate people see him as a bad ruler. He set aside money to liberate Africa, but Egyptian revolution provided a cloud for the Europeans to come in and destroy Africa a bit.
Qattara was put in by French, our people are hailing. I pity Africa. Living in UK has opened my eyes to the policies of these western governments as regards Africa. They do not care one bit about us. Simple. You can kill 1 billion Africans as long as you give 10 billion dollars to a western government concession. You dont need to worry about PR. BBC will praise you. They will return a few millions in AIDS.
However, the events of Egypt will certainly happen across Africa one day. We will wake up and become anti-western. Until then, let them tap us more. We will come back for it.

thank you bro, i will continue to take my hat off to Muammar Gadaffi for everything he did for his people and many other african countries who benefitted from his largesse.  That man made river that he built was not only to provide drinking water to his people but also to irrigate the desertland and enable libyans to grow their own food and thereby reduce their dependence on foreign food imports - and this made the west go crazy with anger - this is one of the reasons why they want him dead by any means necessary.  Now look at other stu.pid africans transferring gigantic tracts of land to these same people for pennies on the pound to grow food to feed their own people when many of these african countries havent even been able to feed their own - any way God dey, i continue to pray that our people will wake up because the level of ignorance amongst so called educated nigerians is just so depressing.  

All of this was planned a along time ago - read Henry Kissinger's (former national security adviser under Jimmy Carter) memorandum written in 1974 (NSSM National  Security memorandum 200) where war, famine and CONTROL OVER FOOD were recommended as tools to control the population of africa.

ola olabiy:

This is[b] LAND[/b] we're talking about, guys.

This is different from your[i] normal[/i] investment. You are done for by selling your land

Why is it different?

^^^ uhh maybe because it feeds your country

some africans mentality

This is from the Canadian government - the same people preaching against protectionism.

The sales was blocked for political reasons.

Today, the Government of Canada has decided to reject the sale of Potash Corporation to BHP Biliton. IPotash logon the move, Industry Minister Tony Clement indicated that a sale of Potash Corp. would not benefit Canada.Many in the resource industry

http://www.noviceadvisor.com/potash-corporation-sale-blocked-by-canadian-government


This is JUST a company oo

Kobojunkie:

Why is it different?

It is the NO1 thing as far as sovereignty is concerned.


Even before an organised government.

ola olabiy:

This is[b] LAND[/b] we're talking about, guys.

This is different from your[i] normal[/i] investment. You are done for by selling your land

But it's not. It's another form of investment.

The bottom line is Nigeria (and the rest of Africa) are now playing in a globalized context, much more so than even 20 - 30 years ago. Leaving the land fallow or not increasing the value (by way of production) is likely more detrimental in the long term. Governments can't just buy up land if they do not have the money to put it in production. That money is better spent providing services and other infrastructure within the scope of available resources. Again, the key is if you don't have enough capital, you can't subsidize large scale farming.

We have the Shonga farms example of the effort and patience required for large scale farming in the absence of supporting infrastructure.

@@@@@'

the problem with some talk like i know is they simply dont understand the way white men mind works

this is the reason we st-pid and foolsih africans were slaved in the first place

this is the reason the IMF got u on the hook in the first place

this is the reason the drug company was able to dispose their waste product in africa in the first place

hmmm

Right now on the libya thing; they were so desperate to get to Gadaffi that BBC  set on the propaganda Gadaffi was bombing his people; that didnt work

they then turn around to say they wana send people in to Libya to carry out humantarian duties but Gadaffi arent average african mugu

it goes on and on

This is what the Chinese understand and give no chance

They dare not try that in Nigeria

mugusssssssssss

Protectionism in Canada.

Canada's rejection of BHP Billiton's bid for PotashCorp.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/americasview/2010/11/week_print

ola olabiy:

This is[b] LAND[/b] we're talking about, guys.

This is different from your[i] normal[/i] investment. You are done for by selling your land

Thank you. Most seemingly intelligent people on this forum just don't get it. You can talk all the economics of your Western education, it doesn't take a sharman or prophet to see that Europeans are creating the chaos in Africa to benefit from it. They are not just buying the land people, they are buying you ignorant jackasses!

allhavoc:

But it's not. It's another form of investment.

The bottom line is Nigeria (and the rest of Africa) are now playing in a globalized context, much more so than even 20 - 30 years ago. Leaving the land fallow or not increasing the value (by way of production) is likely more detrimental in the long term. Governments can't just buy up land if they do not have the money to put it in production. That money is better spent providing services and other infrastructure within the scope of available resources. Again, the key is if you don't have enough capital, you can't subsidize large scale farming.

We have the Shonga farms example of the effort and patience required for large scale farming in the absence of supporting infrastructure.

We are talking of hundreds of hectares of LAND.

ola olabiy:

It is the NO1 thing as far as sovereignty is concerned.
Even before an organised government.

You mean for sovereignty, other countries don't allow the very same companies/investors to lease/purchase for company use?

So, if we invite companies that want to farm our lands, we should never sell them land?

Also, on the post on Canada, can you also include information to show the amount of property sold to foreign investors in the same year.

If I own your LAND, invariably, I own YOU.