hupernikao:


Knowing God is not same as secular religion. You must always make this distinction. Religion can be the platform on which such conviction is spread. But knowing God isn't the same.

What is secular religion?

hupernikao:


Man isn't born an atheist. Man is born to search out his environment.

Man isn't born with a belief system or lack of it, he is born to find out.

Same way a baby wasn't born to fear, and fear wasn't taught in the school of the cradles. Yet man grow up to know fear, instincts in discovering his environment.

In this, man's heart will either seek, find and know God or will keep struggling with the thoughts of the same.

Some men or rather most men don't care or wanna find out. Who has the time. As soon as man noticed it is a powerful tool of control. The world we live in is what you get.

HellVictorinho3:

Who told you I am obsessed with disproving anything
Even if I am displeased , what can you do except bringing up useless allegations and accusations against me?
Calling me names and threatening me like certain bastards have done on Nairaland!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stopping people from helping me towards my progress without remorse, furrrk the day I was born amidst such bastards!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't really care if you're a theist....... but I will be mad if you see it as a reason to frustrate me ........ did you know some of the bastards I wish to be robbed as often as possible are atheists??

Let us see if Hell will not be let loose if I ever get the tools required for that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of cause, your daily presence in the Religious section of NL over what you believe doesn't exist is a proof of your obsession!

Your anger is well exhibited by the manner in which you speak/write:
1. Seeing allegations where there is none
2. Using cursing words where civil language is all that is required
3. Seeing everyone else that don't believe it your way bastards

Check out LordReed: he is matured and civil in his speeches on NL even though we have opposing views about God. You might wish to learn from him.

Children throw tantrums because they feel they don't have the intellectual capacity to discuss sentence with sentence with adults. (I've not called you a child o!). Opposing views must not degenerate into violence in words and deeds.

Even with opposing views,
Even with tattoos and piercings,
Even with drugs use
Even with wild sexual orientations

You are first a human being created in the image of God
You are my neighbour
You are the Jesus who came to me for assistance
I will not discriminate in giving you my help and love to the best of my ability.

Whatever you want men to do to you, do unto them with love!

descarado:

Some men or rather most men don't care or wanna find out. Who has the time. As soon as man noticed it is a powerful tool of control. The world we live in is what you get.

You are yet to grasp what I wrote. Read it again.

When you see knowing God as religion, you won't still have the grasp of what i wrote.

As much as your heart continue to search its environment, it will always be face with the question of a Supreme. Even if you are born alone in Jupiter and never had contact with man's world. Your heart will search out, always. So I am not speaking of voluntary but involuntary activity of the heart.

Bluewitch:



Ultra HD display of stupidity by you....was thinking you had sense....

It depends on what you mean by sense



I have come across atheists that have shown a form of stupidity worse than believing in feeding thousands of people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fishes or how do they put that thing again??

LordReed:


What is secular religion?

It's the systematic practice of religion corporately with an extension of informing your individual devotions. Nothing wrong with this but this isn't what is on the table now.

HellVictorinho3:



My stand is nothing shows how God can exist but I don't think my stand will change the fact that life doesn't make sense to me


I was born as an atheist..... you can't change that .... faith occurred later then disappeared.


You are not really meant to tell me what I mean by saying it's the same as this or that.......



Struggling with XYZ has been addressed.

Born an atheist? Lol

That such a uniqueness that never existed before.

hupernikao:


It's the systematic practice of religion corporately with an extension of informing your individual devotions. Nothing wrong with this but this isn't what is on the table now.

I am asking because I never heard it before. So how does it fit into the discourse or why did you mention it?

Martinez39s:
What's the essence of lacking belief in the existence werewolves, unicorns and vampires?

A dear friend( an older lady) gave me books on witchology. Never know there are textbooks on the study of witches. There are deeper books she showed me. I wasn't skeptical to go through them. Just ike reading novels. I was neutral on what I read. She wanted to teach me wizardry. She is from the Caribbean. Family has been known wizards for generations and they have old money.

Of course, I wouldn't have known this had She been a Nigerian cos everything will be deep secret.
I wasn't interested though I learnt what the symbols on trot cards means and how to combine them. That old lady(61) is still a dear friend, I had no interest on her religion(traditionalist) and whatever she does. (A very wonderful woman that treats me like her daughter. If i should convert the gifts she normally send to me, it will be worth millions in nigerian currency) Her family has never practiced Christianity. Irony of life. I sent those books to the library after reading them. Somebody said demons will come to my house through those books. If only I believed on them, right?

LordReed:


No it means do not allow religion be the dictator or limiter of your thoughts. You are free to consider any god concept. A lack of belief doesn't limit you from considering the god concept. By definition the clean slate doesn't have "free of religiously encumbered thoughts" written on it so once again you are twisting my words. "Free of religiously encumbered thoughts" means your clean slate has no preconceived notions dictated by religious ideas, you are free to consider a god or anything, free of encumbrance.

I think you are professing a NEUTRALITY that is biased.

Why?
An agnostics is a person with a leaning towards atheism but only uncommitted to say as a FACT that God doesn't exist.
(sorry, its not a debate over the definition of atheism as a disbelief or not: it's my opinion)

You say:
"A lack of belief doesn't limit you from considering the god concept"
I don't believe in Santa Claus
I can't even believe in santa claus
BUT
I can read about Santa Claus
I can discuss Santa Claus with others

However, it is impossible for me to believe in Santa Claus because my BLANK SLATE (from the start) has excluded him from my life even if perchance he is found to be true.

How then is your blank slate different from mine?

TenQ:

Of cause, your daily presence in the Religious section of NL over what you believe doesn't exist is a proof of your obsession!

Your anger is well exhibited by the manner in which you speak/write:
1. Seeing allegations where there is none
2. Using cursing words where civil language is all that is required
3. Seeing everyone else that don't believe it your way bastards

Check out LordReed: he is matured and civil in his speeches on NL even though we have opposing views about God. You might wish to learn from him.

Children throw tantrums because they feel they don't have the intellectual capacity to discuss sentence with sentence with adults. (I've not called you a child o!). Opposing views must not degenerate into violence in words and deeds.

Even with opposing views,
Even with tattoos and piercings,
Even with drugs use
Even with wild sexual orientations

You are first a human being created in the image of God
You are my neighbour
You are the Jesus who came to me for assistance
I will not discriminate in giving you my help and love to the best of my ability.

Whatever you want men to do to you, do unto them with love!

You are not the one with allegations against me.


Those that have allegations against me know themselves.


The bastards include some atheists ...... you are not among them.... I know I don't sound nice using 'bastards' but that's what they deserve for accusing me baselessly just because I asked for help on behalf of myself and my brother.


The words I use are not always completely meant for the person I am quoting and I need you to understand that.



Do you want to help me?

TenQ:

I think you are professing a NEUTRALITY that is biased.

Why?
An agnostics is a person with a leaning towards atheism but only uncommitted to say as a FACT that God doesn't exist.
(sorry, its not a debate over the definition of atheism as a disbelief or not: it's my opinion)

You say:
"A lack of belief doesn't limit you from considering the god concept"
I don't believe in Santa Claus
I can't even believe in santa claus
BUT
I can read about Santa Claus
I can discuss Santa Claus with others

However, it is impossible for me to believe in Santa Claus because my BLANK SLATE (from the start) has excluded him from my life even if perchance he is found to be true.

How then is your blank slate different from mine?

Very different because lack of belief has not precluded belief. If the atheist has seen reason to believe he is not precluded because of his lack of belief.

hupernikao:


Born an atheist? Lol

That such a uniqueness that never existed before.

Later became a theist


Now an atheist but I don't consider it an assurance of certain things


Being an atheist doesn't ensure certain things

hupernikao:


You are yet to grasp what I wrote. Read it again.

When you see knowing God as religion, you won't still have the grasp of what i wrote.

As much as your heart continue to search its environment, it will always be face with the question of a Supreme. Even if you are born alone in Jupiter and never had contact with man's world. Your heart will search out, always. So I am not speaking of voluntary but involuntary activity of the heart.

Your heart or the heart of millions of men out there?
It's very hard for people with your ideology to think that everybody is wired to think like you.
Human minds are wired differently. People like me even try to read and expand for knowledge sake not because we are searching. Some don't care, when it comes to things about the unknown, they will tell you to bring another topic.
A colleague was reading the Holy Bible one day and he said it was a gift. From the way he was reading, I asked if he has ever opened the bible before and he said no. They brought Christianity to Africa. Out of curiosity I started asking around, like up to 80% have never opened the bible. Yet they carry christmas for head. Why do they celebrate Xmas then? Because its fun and party time.
Whatever that birthed Xmas isn't their problem.
This my dear, is how the majority if the world reason.
If not for compulsorily forcing people to join one religion from birth, religion would have died out in Africa like its gradually dying in other continents

hupernikao:


You are yet to grasp what I wrote. Read it again.

When you see knowing God as religion, you won't still have the grasp of what i wrote.

As much as your heart continue to search its environment, it will always be face with the question of a Supreme. Even if you are born alone in Jupiter and never had contact with man's world. Your heart will search out, always. So I am not speaking of voluntary but involuntary activity of the heart.

You are not in my heart so you cannot determine what I seek with my heart

LordReed:


Very different because lack of belief has not precluded belief. If the atheist has seen reason to believe he is not precluded because of his lack of belief.

It still simply mean that your so-called Blank slate is NOT blank!

TenQ:

It still simply mean that your so-called Blank slate is NOT blank!

Blank of faith in God..... I think that's what LordReed says

TenQ:

It still simply mean that your so-called Blank slate is NOT blank!

That is because you want to read it as that. If the blank slate means you can latter believe, I dunno what makes you think it is not blank. You are free to consider everything including belief and you are here saying it is not blank. How is it not blank if everything is on the table including a belief in god?

HellVictorinho3:

You are not the one with allegations against me.
Those that have allegations against me know themselves.
The bastards include some atheists ...... you are not among them.... I know I don't sound nice using 'bastards' but that's what they deserve for accusing me baselessly just because I asked for help on behalf of myself and my brother.

The words I use are not always completely meant for the person I am quoting and I need you to understand that.
Do you want to help me?

I understand you.
However, your position or reaction to things you don't like is NOT civil.
You betray too much emotion in conversations especially when they don't go your way.
Anger usually is not a positive emotion except when fighting satan...LOL!!

We all get angry, but what we say or do when we get angry is a measure of how matured we are.

No human being is an Island. We depend on one another to survive.

TenQ:

Of cause, your daily presence in the Religious section of NL over what you believe doesn't exist is a proof of your obsession!

Your anger is well exhibited by the manner in which you speak/write:
1. Seeing allegations where there is none
2. Using cursing words where civil language is all that is required
3. Seeing everyone else that don't believe it your way bastards

Check out LordReed: he is matured and civil in his speeches on NL even though we have opposing views about God. You might wish to learn from him.

Children throw tantrums because they feel they don't have the intellectual capacity to discuss sentence with sentence with adults. (I've not called you a child o!). Opposing views must not degenerate into violence in words and deeds.

Even with opposing views,
Even with tattoos and piercings,
Even with drugs use
Even with wild sexual orientations

You are first a human being created in the image of God
You are my neighbour
You are the Jesus who came to me for assistance
I will not discriminate in giving you my help and love to the best of my ability.

Whatever you want men to do to you, do unto them with love!

It depends on what you mean by obsession


Should I drop digits?

HellVictorinho3:




Blank of faith in God..... I think that's what LordReed says

Blank of preconceived notions. You are free to develop in any direction. If you find reasons to believe in god then you do it on your own terms not because you had preconceived ideas.

TenQ:

I understand you.
However, your position or reaction to things you don't like is NOT civil.
You betray too much emotion in conversations especially when they don't go your way.
Anger usually is not a positive emotion except when fighting satan...LOL!!

We all get angry, but what we say or do when we get angry is a measure of how matured we are.

No human being is an Island. We depend on one another to survive.

If those people were civil towards me, do you think I would have called them bastards?


I hope you're not offended because I have passed through many things as a result of their allegations....if my brother dies,I will blame them.



In fact,they are responsible for my current situation and that of my family.

LordReed:


Blank of preconceived notions. You are free to develop in any direction. If you find reasons to believe in god then you do it on your own terms not because you had preconceived ideas.

Hell yeah



I find no reason to believe...........

Bluewitch:



What's the essence of Christianity

Life doesn't make sense to me despite my lack of belief in such things

HellVictorinho3:



Hell yeah



I find no reason to believe...........

Good for you. LoL!

HellVictorinho3:

If those people were civil towards me, do you think I would have called them bastards?

I hope you're not offended because I have passed through many things as a result of their allegations....if my brother dies,I will blame them.
In fact,they are responsible for my current situation and that of my family.

What do you gain by calling them bastards?
Nothing!!

Of cause, I am not offended. I only wish the best for all around

Life is hard and sometimes difficult, but each one of us has to carry our own burden and move on.
The fact that we carry heavy load today does not mean that our loads will always be heavy.
We all hurt each other
The closest people to us are the ones we hurt the most (many times unintentionally)

So, the goal is to FORGIVE the person behind the hurt and move on.
We gain nothing by destroying them in revenge.
Many times, a successful retribution, revenge or payback does nothing to RESTORE us back what was lost.

If you cannot stand someone dishing you pain, the best is to walk away.


Life is all about GRACE:
DJ Cuppy doesn't have to think about Working: her financial future is taken care of
But most of us don't have that kind of grace: if we don't hustle, we don't eat.

You have your own peculiar graces, it may be that you don't recognise them as such.

The key:
Maximise your own peculiar grace
Overcome the disadvantages you can help
Live with the disabilities you have no power over

No one succeeds by themselves alone.

HellVictorinho3:




It depends on what you mean by obsession


Should I drop digits?

Obsession is when what is seemly unimportant dominate your time.

No, please...not at this time.

LordReed:


That is because you want to read it as that. If the blank slate means you can latter believe, I dunno what makes you think it is not blank. You are free to consider everything including belief and you are here saying it is not blank. How is it not blank if everything is on the table including a belief in god?

A blank state strictly means UNCOMMITTED to any position but asking Questions enough to have the blank slate filled with a position.

I think your case is more like: You have already known enough or you require an answer to conform to your thinking such that any other thing will not suffice.

Let me give you an analogy:
Is there water trapped under Venus?
Blank Slate: I don't know but I'm willing to seek for evidence that will support or negate the presence of water (this is true agnostism)
Semi-Blank State: There is no water except I see a superior evidence (this is the position of ALL agnostics Ive met)

Now, to even make it clearer, I can ask you the question:
Which one of these is closest to your position about God?
i. Theist
ii. Atheist
iii. Agnostic-Atheist
iv. Agnostic-Theist

HellVictorinho3:




Blank of faith in God..... I think that's what LordReed says

No.
He means perfect uncommitted neutrality about religious thoughts

HellVictorinho3:



You are not in my heart so you cannot determine what I seek with my heart

No. Am not talking about your heart, I am referring to the heart of man.

descarado:

Your heart or the heart of millions of men out there?
It's very hard for people with your ideology to think that everybody is wired to think like you.
Human minds are wired differently. People like me even try to read and expand for knowledge sake not because we are searching. Some don't care, when it comes to things about the unknown, they will tell you to bring another topic.
A colleague was reading the Holy Bible one day and he said it was a gift. From the way he was reading, I asked if he has ever opened the bible before and he said no. They brought Christianity to Africa. Out of curiosity I started asking around, like up to 80% have never opened the bible. Yet they carry christmas for head. Why do they celebrate Xmas then? Because its fun and party time.
Whatever that birthed Xmas isn't their problem.
This my dear, is how the majority if the world reason.
If not for compulsorily forcing people to join one religion from birth, religion would have died out in Africa like its gradually dying in other continents

You aren't stable in your discussion. Issues here isn't Christmas. Not who brought what. Not even Christianity. Not even modernization.

What we are speaking of here span the very first moments of the first man. The ancient before the knowledge of a god become a corporate affairs. We are talking about how man's heart works.

And all you wrote up affirm all I said, the heart of man searches to know.

Whatever the reasons for that is secondary. What is primitive in man is to search his environment. Whether it's for joy, truth, good, evil, satisfaction or survival, they are all rooted in the searches of the heart. This is both the origin and confluence of all human hearts.

LordReed:


I am asking because I never heard it before. So how does it fit into the discourse or why did you mention it?

Well, it was drawn from your earlier submission. You inferred below.

"free of religiously encumbered thoughts".
The implications of my words are that the atheist now has their work cut out for them as they now have an opportunity to evaluate everything without depending on any religious contrivance or limitations.

How does this comes in?

A belief system or unbelief (which is what is being discoursed) is never same as religion.

A belief can give rise to a religion but it's never the same.

A belief is rooted in conviction, a religion offers a mode to serve and worship what you believe in.
One can believe and not worship same.

So, the focus here is what man believes or not believe, not what he worships.