Workch:
Trust I did.

Copernicus was the first person to prove spherical earth and heliocentric solar system.
All the philosophers were just arguing.

I mean, every newbie in science knows about Copernicus and his works

Whilst famous for the Heliocentric Theory of the solar system (the idea that the Earth and planets revolved around the sun) Copernicus was by no means the first to settle the idea that the Earth was a sphere.

You are simply ignorant of what you are trying to discuss.

DeepSight:


Whilst famous for the Heliocentric Theory of the solar system (the idea that the Earth and planets revolved around the sun) Copernicus was by no means the first to settle the idea that the Earth was a sphere.

You are simply ignorant of what you are trying to discuss.

I think you also have basic comphension problem.

Where did i infer that Copernicus was the first to muster the idea?

We can't have a discussion because you are in a haste to find errors instead of comprehending.

The point is: none of the philosophers proved spherical earth, no one is arguing your strawman argument as to whether they didn't hold such beliefs.

Calm down and digest my statements

Workch:
You don't even know the difintion of a vaccum dude.
A vacuum cannot contain a gas, even in minimal quantity unless it's partial vacuum.

You don't know what a vacuum is and you don't want to leant it. Thete are no gas molecules in vacuum, no pressure. All your gaseous pressure statement is junk science

Seriously?
Tell me, where has a vacuum with zero gaseous pressure ever been experimented with?

First go read carefully about vacuums, I cannot keep repeating something to a Sciolist.

You go and read on vacuums and stop throwing about words you dont understand.

I didn't even know where I said we have perfect vacuum.

Nothingness implies a perfect vacuum. And so long as you speak of anything emerging from nothingness you are referring to a perfect vacuum - and there is no such thing anywhere in existence. None whatsoever.

Workch:
I think you also have basic comphension problem.

Where did i infer that Copernicus was the first to muster the idea?

We can't have a discussion because you are in a haste to find errors instead of comprehending.

The point is: none of the philosophers proved spherical earth, no one is arguing your strawman argument as to whether they didn't hold such beliefs.

Calm down and digest my statements

They had reference points for their logic concerning their view of the spherical Earth. You have not read the justifications elucidated by Achimedes and Aristotle for example. You are lazy.

Workch:
You don't even know the difintion of a vaccum dude.
A vacuum cannot contain a gas, even in minimal quantity unless it's partial vacuum.

You don't know what a vacuum is and you don't want to leant it. Thete are no gas molecules in vacuum, no pressure. All your gaseous pressure statement is junk science

Just to come back to this briefly and show you how wrong you are -
I extract the following for you: please read and be educated on what you struggle to discuss -

A vacuum is a volume of space that is essentially empty of matter, so that gaseous pressure is much less than standard atmospheric pressure. The root of the word vacuum is the Latin adjective vacuus which means "empty," but space can never be perfectly empty. A perfect vacuum with a gaseous pressure of absolute zero is a philosophical concept that is never observed in practice, and quantum theory predicts that no volume of space is perfectly empty in this way. Physicists often use the term "vacuum" slightly differently. They discuss ideal test results that would be expected to occur in a perfect vacuum, which they simply call "vacuum" or "free space," and they use the term partial vacuum to refer to the imperfect vacua realized in practice.

The quality of a vacuum is measured by how closely it approaches a perfect vacuum. The residual gas pressure is the primary indicator of quality, and it is most commonly measured in units of torr, even in metric contexts. Lower pressures indicate higher quality, although other variables must also be taken into account. Quantum mechanics sets limits on the best possible quality of vacuum. Outer space is a natural high-quality vacuum, mostly of much higher quality than what can be created artificially with current technology. Low-quality, artificial vacuums have been used for suction for millennia.

-----
Quantum-mechanical definition

Even an ideal vacuum, in practice—thought of as the complete absence of anything—will not remain empty. One reason is that the walls of a vacuum chamber emit light in the form of black-body radiation: visible light if they are at a temperature of thousands of degrees, infrared light if they are cooler. If this soup of photons is in thermodynamic equilibrium with the walls, it can be said to have a particular temperature, as well as a pressure.

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Vacuum

You had better pay attention to the words in bold and learn a thing or two.

Workch:
Yes, I am ignorant of how the universe started, I'm not going to created a God to fill that gap without evidence like you want to

This your frustration is personal, it seems you are just trying to take your frustration out on God because you feel He offended you.

I personally find so much joy and happiness in serving God and I am imploring you to serve Him too, this is the best food anyone can give to you. This food is very delicious, if you taste it you will definitely like it. If you feel you have tasted it before, then you might have tasted it the wrong way. I am not forcing you, if you are not convinced, don't eat it, just don't put sand in it for me.

LordReed:


What is the evidence you speak of?

Scientists did not imply or confirm the existence of God but they did not completely rule out the existence of God either, some of them even declares their belief in God.

Why is the laws of the universe customized for our convenience and why does it seem like the universe was prepared to receive us? There are countless planet, some are hot and some are cold. Why does earth have a temperature that is conducive for living?

The universe seems to be carefully planned and designed for us. Galaxies, stars and planets would have failed to form if the vacuum density were much higher than the observed level. Atom (protons, neutrons and electrons) wouldn't have existed if the strength of the interaction between protons and electrons were not as accurate and suitable as it is or if protons were just a little larger than they actually are because they would have been unstable and decomposed into simpler particles. That means we wouldn't have existed.

There are a lot of coincidences and these coincidences are what made life possible, how can I just believe so much coincidences? I prefer to accept that there is a creator (God). Multiverse is believed to explained the fine-tuning but it doesn’t explain the origin of biological information.

How did life come from non-life and how can something that has no brain or inspiration create something that has brain.

All attempts by scientists to simulate the conditions of the early earth and create life in a test tube failed, till today no scientist has been able to make a living organism or a living reproducing orgasm from non-living chemicals.

Some people believe there is no God because even ungodly people are getting successful day by day but what they don't understand is that there are laid principles in life. God set those principles Himself, if an ungodly person has the opportunity to follow those principles he will achieve his aims.

There are principles for successful, there are principles to be healthy, there are principles to prevent accidents and so on but if we are Godly and we don't have the opportunity to follow those principles, we can still receive grace to achieve our aims through faith. I started my first business with faith and it was a Miraculous experience for me.

We have to try not to breach the principles of life because once those principles are breached problems might occur. We have a part to play in life because the decision we make matters a lot and our wrong decisions are capable of resetting God's initial plan for us.
Even when we try our best and things don't go well for us, we shouldn't try to take our frustration out on God because there is a reason for everything. God has a specific purpose and time for everything (living or non-living). We all are part of his plans.

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8
1.To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

Rosement:

Every scientific theory about the creation of the universe is still a mystery, why can't you solve those mysteries before asking this type of question. Why is it only the existence of the creator(God) that you are querying? Next time, do your findings properly before typing anything.

If you believe the creator has a creator, then the creator of the creator has to have a creator, stop deceiving yourself, we cannot fathom this. All I know is there have to be a first, there is nothing that does not have a first and without a first a second cannot exist. God is the first. He is eternal, He does not have a beginning or an end because He has always existed.

No, if everything has to have a first then what was the first thing that allowed the creator to exist?

davien:
No, if everything has to have a first then what was the first thing that allowed the creator to exist?

If out of ignorance you believe there is a first thing that allowed the creator to exist, can you explain how the thing came into existence? How else do you want me to explain to you that every theory in the universe is a mystery? For you to ask this question after the explanation I gave you it means you know nothing about science. Go and do your findings properly before asking questions.

Rosement:

There is nothing wrong with religion.

Yea, there is nothing inherently wrong with religion.

Rosement:

I cannot choose for others but personally I pick Option C, I believe there is a Creator because the creation of the universe looks like a well thought out plan and some evidence are pointing to it.

There is no evidence for any “creation” or “plan” for the universe. The assumption that the universe is planned is borne of out your religious beliefs. The universe is in a constant state of change which is not apparent to us on a large scale because our time is relatively short. To a being that lives one second, fireworks would last multiple generations. Now scale it up, and you’ll understand our relation to an entity like the sun and your “plan” goes out the window.

Yes, there are certain things that make life possible on earth at the moment including the presence of the moon and the existence of Jupiter to name a few, but these are not permanent events. They just seem permanent because we exist for a blink of an eye.

Rosement:

I needed answers to my questions, that was what led to my search for the Creator.

You already have the answer to the question so no need to search for a “creator” or “Creator”. Is creator and Creator akin to god and God?
At the end of the day, creator and Creator sound exactly the same.

Rosement:

Who am I? Why am I here? How did I get here? Where did I come from? What is the purpose of my existence? Where am I going? How was I made and how am I functioning? Who is behind the intelligence of all that is in the universe?

You are a person/human/ape/living organism
You are here because two people conceived. If they hadn’t conceived at a particular time, you wouldn’t exist.
You’ve always been here. Everything that comprises you have always exist and when your life ceases, everything that comprises you will be absorbed into the whole and continue to exist.
You create the purpose for your life while existing as a living organism or you can let others decide for you.
You are not going anywhere.
Biology will give you answers about how you function.
“Who is behind the intelligence…..”
Is one of your answers in search of a question.

Rosement:

I discovered I am part of the creator's plan, so I was eager to know His reason for creating me.

See, there’s your answer. You are part of His, not his or her, plan. You did not discover anything. You are just regurgitating your indoctrination about the jew god in your sacred book.

Rosement:

If I believe there is a Creator and I ignore Him, it means I am ungrateful and narrow-minded. He gave life to me as a gift without me even requesting for it, He planned, designed and created this great and lovely universe for our convenience.

How cute. You are the center of the universe.

Rosement:

Each time, I wake up to see my love ones, I am always very grateful to the Creator. I am still alive dreaming of tomorrow and trying to achieve great things. I am setting goals and planning for the future and I am able to work hard to secure a future for myself and my unborn children, thanks to Him. Even if He refuse to step forward to take the credit, I would have personally searched for Him to show Him my gratitude.

Holy Obsequiousness!! Even your god is on his golden porcelain throne thinking, “sheesh, chill with the ass kissing”!!

killyaselfie:


Yea, there is nothing inherently wrong with religion.



There is no evidence for any “creation” or “plan” for the universe. The assumption that the universe is planned is borne of out your religious beliefs. The universe is in a constant state of change which is not apparent to us on a large scale because our time is relatively short. To a being that lives one second, fireworks would last multiple generations. Now scale it up, and you’ll understand our relation to an entity like the sun and your “plan” goes out the window.

Yes, there are certain things that make life possible on earth at the moment including the presence of the moon and the existence of Jupiter to name a few, but these are not permanent events. They just seem permanent because we exist for a blink of an eye.




You already have the answer to the question so no need to search for a “creator” or “Creator”. Is creator and Creator akin to god and God?
At the end of the day, creator and Creator sound exactly the same.



You are a person/human/ape/living organism
You are here because two people conceived. If they hadn’t conceived at a particular time, you wouldn’t exist.
You’ve always been here. Everything that comprises you have always exist and when your life ceases, everything that comprises you will be absorbed into the whole and continue to exist.
You create the purpose for your life while existing as a living organism or you can let others decide for you.
You are not going anywhere.
Biology will give you answers about how you function.
“Who is behind the intelligence…..”
Is one of your answers in search of a question.



See, there’s your answer. You are part of His, not his or her, plan. You did not discover anything. You are just regurgitating your indoctrination about the jew god in your sacred book.



How cute. You are the center of the universe.




Holy Obsequiousness!! Even your god is on his golden porcelain throne thinking, “sheesh, chill with the ass kissing”!!

I have noticed your level of ignorance and lack of knowledge. You don't even care about the fact that you lack scientific knowledge, you just want to participate because you are interested in venting your anger out on God. You coined up things that are irrelevant and you cannot even explain any theory. You are just to trying to prove that there is no God with your own little understanding.

You said "I am a person/human/ape/living organism, I am here because two people conceived and if they hadn’t conceived at a particular time, I wouldn’t have existed"
but how did life exist in the first place for my parents to be able to conceive me, are you not wondering or do you actually believe that something so lifeless could have created us?

How did life suddenly come from non-life and how can something that has no brain get the inspiration to make the universe conducive for us. Do you know how difficult it is for a tailor to even get a person's accurate size without measurements, now talkless of an objects getting the accurate measurement of the resources used to create the universe.

How can a object that has no brain or inspiration design and create this universe accurately. If scientists that are inspired and have brain find it impossible to create life from non-living chemicals after several attempts, where did a lifeless thing without brain get the inspiration to create life?

Biology can give answers about how I function but can it explain how I was created. Who created me, a living organism that is capable of reproducing. Even multiverse can only try to explain the fine-tuning but it can it explain the origin of biological information.

When it got to the point, where you said (Who is behind the intelligence…..” Is one of your answers in search of a question). I thought you were going to explain further or provide an answer but instead you just tried to vent your frustrations out on God the more, how is that the answer to the question and how does your insults or frustrations prove that God doesn't exist?

You are even unknowingly evangelising and declaring that there is God, an ungodly person can even desire God because of your words because any sound person can tell that you know God exist but you feel He offended you, so you are frustrated and all you want to do is vent your anger out on Him by claiming He doesn't exist. Will you even vent your anger this much on a lifeless object that you can see exist, now talkless of a person that you believe doesn't exist? Don't deceive yourself, you don't have to admit it but you know that God exist.

Rosement:

If out of ignorance you believe there is a first thing that allowed the creator to exist, can you explain how the thing came into existence? How else do you want me to explain to you that every theory in the universe is a mystery? For you to ask this question after the explanation I gave you it means you know nothing about science. Go and do your findings properly before asking questions.

I'm not the one insisting there has to be a creator, that burden of proof lies with you. So again, what allows your creator to exist in the first place.

davien:
I'm not the one insisting there has to be a creator, that burden of proof lies with you. So again, what allows your creator to exist in the first place.

All scientific theories are mysteries. Whatever you even believe allowed us to exist is still a mystery, so why are you asking me to solve a mystery when other mysteries have not also been solved even by scientists?

I cannot keep explaining the same thing over and over again. I don't even find it right to be discussing with a frustrated person, I can't bring myself to your level, I quit. I am not forcing you to believe in God, you are entitled to your own belief and opinions and you are free to believe whatever makes you sleep well at night.

Do have a nice day!

Workch:
nonsense, none of them proved anything with logic until scientific methods started popping.

Logic alone is flawed without evidence.

Whether or not you want to argue all night, it's stupid to rely on pure logic to make accurate conclusions and that's why your so called philosophers argue about jargons every now and then.
There is usually no evidence to close the case. It's the same reason none of them could prove spheriod earth until we found evidence

I think it's more correct to say that according to the popularly known history of science, Copernicus and Galileo discovered that the Earth is a sphere.

I think the ancient Egyptians had known the shape of the Earth hundreds (if not thousands) of years before even Copernicus or Galileo was born. And a number of ancient Greek philosophers, who schooled in ancient Egypt, also knew.

But almost all the books of ancient Egyptians were destroyed with the Alexandra Library.

I think if you're widely read, you'd know many things that are touted as historical facts in the mainstream science (especially concerning science and technology in ancient Egypt and Africa) aren't really true.

Most are pure lies or half-truths.

The shape of the Earth looks like something elementary for a civilization that could construct those pyramids, obelisks, and preserve their dead for thousands of years.

Don't you think so?

@ Workch

Even though you fled from this thread after your presumptions were exposed, here goes -

For your education.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rJOSDgDG0A

Rosement:
A. The universe does not need to be created because it has always existed.
B. The universe created itself.
C. The universe must have a creator because it cannot create itself.

The universe has always been thereso does not need creation.


We humans like seeing patterns in everything hence we seeking how and why the universe was made , even though it is an unnesesary question , but yeah we still seek

TheSourcerer:
The universe has always been thereso does not need creation.


We humans like seeing patterns in everything hence we seeking how and why the universe was made , even though it is an unnesesary question , but yeah we still seek

This is just your opinion, not the fact.

Rosement:

This is just your opinion, not the fact.

yezand what's yours ?




What i know for a fact though is that nothing really matters in a billion years from now the earth would be incinerated by the sun( which is a main sequence star now) and we would probably be debris floating in space maybe forming new asteroids, moons , suns maybe even new planets