Please people let's not get ahead of ourselves,

First off the CBN isn't a "Private Bank" and does not issue shares (publicly of course), but a monetary regulatory independent agency of the Legislative branch of Govt.  The head of the CBN is selected by the president and is confirmed through majority vote by the House of Senate and is subject to removal through the same process, this is however in the case of GROSS MISCONDUCT such as fraud, theft or whatever is defined as a misconduct within the code of professional ethics therefore, the Finance Minister CANNOT sack the CBN governor. Although it is often said, the finance minister can play politics very well using strong recos to the house to remove the CBN gov. although quite unlikely but not impossible.

Keep in mind that these two positions work hand in hand but in general, the CBN asserts more responsibility over domestic and some international macroeconomic and monetary policies such as inflation, interest rate, foreign reserves, currency control et al meanwhile the Finance minster asserts a greater control beyond that of the CBN gov. this such as Foreign Investments, Foreign Asset and managements,domestic and internal Revenue and Tax management, Debt management, inflation control and unemployment, and the list goes on and yeah don't forget the politics involved. The finance minister has more agencies under his/her control than the CBN does.

I understand where the person said it was private bank because the CBN does engage in "for profit" ventures that accumulate interest earnings, the CBN might engage in derivative transactions such as futures contracts, options markets, et al just to make profit. That profit is then turned to the treasury or Finance Department,

9ja voice:

since beer sellers and other sharia prohibited business (though legal in national laws) are not allow to borrow money from this islamic bank,that simply make it bad for such society like ours and should not be allow.
do you guys think that we can be decive by the word "interest free" what about the silent information of division in it such as "sharia prohibit but lawfuly legal".
 our muslim brothers thinks we are silly. that is why I still believe that many nigerian muslims support boko haram struggle but just dislike the way they are going about it.

The sense in it is this:

A bank collects money from Mr A (depositor) and gives it out for Mr B (borrower) to conduct business or whatever.  Thus the Bank acts as an Intermediary and is not really concerned with what Mr B does with the money as long as he generates enough profits to pay him (intermediary) back, so that he (intermediary) could refund Mr A's deposit as and at when due.

Now this is the typical Banking system!

Let's say Mr A is a Muslim, whose believe it is a sin to eat pork/ gamble/ consume alcohol/ engage in prostitution.  and Let's say for some reason Mr A holds this view religiously so much so that he wouldn't give out his money for anyone to conduct such businesses.  Under the normal banking system rule stated above, directly or indirectly, Mr A would still be lending out his capital to individuals engaged in such businesses-------> one which contraries his own beliefs.

So Mr A is simply asking for a Banking product, that will ensure that his capital deposits is only directed at businesses according to his religious beliefs.  The catch here is Mr A might likely earn very low interest on this capital as the product provider will NOT be charging borrowers an interest, which implies that the provider will only make profits by investing a substantial sum of the capital in other companies such as auto manufacture, agriculture, technology etc etc.

It's just a banking product that allows for individuals and investors to conduct business transaction in a way that provides allowance for their personal and religious views, nothing more.

And NO, contrary to what many people think, it will NOT be forced on everyone!

Please people let's not get ahead of ourselves,

First off the CBN isn't a "Private Bank" and does not issue shares (publicly of course), but a monetary regulatory independent agency of the Legislative branch of Govt.  The head of the CBN is selected by the president and is confirmed through majority vote by the House of Senate and is subject to removal through the same process, this is however in the case of GROSS MISCONDUCT such as fraud, theft or whatever is defined as a misconduct within the code of professional ethics therefore, the Finance Minister CANNOT sack the CBN governor. Although it is often said, the finance minister can play politics very well using strong recos to the house to remove the CBN gov. although quite unlikely but not impossible.

The CBN is independent of the legislative branch, but its decisions are SUBJECTIVE to the executive branch of Govt!

The removal of the CBN governor is solely dependent on conditions stated in his letter of appointment, and by all means, the President might reserve an explicit authority without the approval of the senate, to terminate his appointment.

It's just a banking product that allows for individuals and investors to conduct business transaction in a way that provides allowance for their personal and religious views, nothing more.

We do understand what the non interest banking means.But you see, in Nigeria things mean a lot more than they appear on the surface.The issue of religion has caused us  immense damages -boko haram, jos crisis etc.We cannot afford to bring religion and religious beliefs into a vital sector of our economy.

I read somewhere where an igbo man was beheaded just because someone thought the wife went to the toilet with a piece of the quaran.One day we may hear that someone was killed because he applied for a loan in an islamic bank or a bank burnt because it lent money to an infidel.

Don't joke with Nigerians with issues that pertain to religion and beliefs and i think a sensible cbn governor would not want to play with the sensibility of the people of Nigeria.There is no problem with the islamic banking as a banking product or ideology, but in Nigeria there is definitely a problem.

violent:

The CBN is independent of the legislative branch, but its decisions are SUBJECTIVE to the executive branch of Govt!

The head of the CBN is appointed by the President, his removal might have to be through a court sentence of his contravention of section 12 sub section 2 of the CBN decree.  Neither the President nor the senate is granted an explicit power to constitutionally remove the CBN governor.

Thanks for the correction but what I implied was the CBN is an independent agency establish through the legislative branch, correct me if I'm wrong. Well Nigerians do things differently, the decisions of the CBN shouldn't be subject to the executive branch ; this is to avoid conflicts of interest, well if I'm wrong, then I accept it. Otherwise, if the CBN decisions are subject to the executive branch, I'm certain that Mr. President is not happy with a decision, being that it's subject to his office, he can revoke it. That right there is Conflict of Interest. Besides, while I know that the president cannot remove him, I am surprised that legislative cannot remove him either; then who can? A court sentence? from who? Who will bring that court proceeding against him? The legislative branch? The people? The banks? or is it the president? I mean who? I mean it's kinda like appointing a federal judge, he/she cannot be removed by the president neither are their decisions subject to neither the legislative or executive, but they are removed by the senate who installed them. There are provisions set aside for this reason.

Apparently people don't know that banking as we know it actually started with the Christian knights called the Knight's Templar. Therefore, we could say we already have Christian Banking.

manny4life:

Thanks for the correction but what I implied was the CBN is an independent agency establish through the legislative branch, correct me if I'm wrong. Well Nigerians do things differently, the decisions of the CBN shouldn't be subject to the executive branch ; this is to avoid conflicts of interest, well if I'm wrong, then I accept it. Otherwise, if the CBN decisions are subject to the executive branch, I'm certain that Mr. President is not happy with a decision, being that it's subject to his office, he can revoke it. That right there is Conflict of Interest. Besides, while I know that the president cannot remove him, I am surprised that legislative cannot remove him either; then who can? A court sentence? from who? Who will bring that court proceeding against him? The legislative branch? The people? The banks? or is it the president? I mean who?

Yeah, the Central Bank is meant to be independent. . ,  .Nigeria is however a different country operating in a different time.

I have edited my earlier argument about the termination of the services of the CBN governor, but seeing as the constitution does not grant either the executive nor the legislative arm an explicit power to terminate his power, the argument would be such that whichever party that needed to terminate his appointment, (either legislative arm or the executive) might have to go through a Judicial process in doing so.

,

violent:

Yeah, the Central Bank is meant to be independent. . ,  .Nigeria is however a different country operating in a different time.

I have edited my earlier argument about the termination of the services of the CBN governor, but seeing as the constitution does not grant either the executive nor the legislative arm an explicit power to terminate his power, the argument would be such that whichever party that needed to terminate his appointment, (either legislative arm or the executive) might have to go through a Judicial process in doing so.

@ Violent,

Part (12)(1)(a & b) is just saying what the requirements are for you to hold that positions, it's self explanatory and

Part (12)(1)(a to d) is just saying ethical misconduct, why they should cease to hold office if they found wanting in any of the misconducts. It doesn't not explicitly say either the executive or legislative branch can start a judicial proceeding.


If you ask me, it doesn't make sense, the senate can remove a president, judges, justices, speaker, secretaries of department if they have too, other senators, ministers et al but they cannot remove an ordinary CBN governor? Doesn't make any sense

Part (12)(1)(a to d) is just saying ethical misconduct, it doesn't not explicitly say either the executive or legislative branch can start a judicial proceeding

edited,

hehehe look at people waiting for conflict, you think these people are not professionals?


There are already halal funds trading the NSE, chambers didnt hear or read about anybody being beheaded

Nigeria borrows regularly from Muslim/Islamic countries/organisations- chambers didnt see/read/hear stories about chopping anybody's hand or nose

aasog1:

Let Nigerian pastors with all their filthy wealth create their own. And they can borrow it to brothel operators and pimps.
Every Religion has its dos and donts. As long as they would borrow it to developers like me, and other business thats ethical, they are a great opportunity.

so you agree this bank's regulation are guided by the tenets of islam
btw, what business of their's is it if the loan is used to setup a pork farm.if we are to share profit, does it make the bank a joint owner (shareholder) of the enterprise, because i don't how they can rightly know the amount of profit or loss if they are not? They could easily be defrauded at this stage i.e. getting less percentage in profits or more in losses based on any fabricated balance sheet i submit

No;Not even the president can do that.

I strongly believe there is nothing wrong with Nigeria but many things wrong with nigerians.i am a member of MFM i support islamic banking,ok to truncate dis argument i re-christen the nomenclature as"CHRISTIANITY BANKING".My people it is time we have a common ground on issue that will affect everybody positive cos unemployment,poverty,hunger,insecurity,etc have nothing to do with religion,infact if there is something like "HERBALIST ELECTRICITY" for power to be stable in nigeria i support

The real question should have been why did s.tupid GEJ appoint this IMF/world bank puppet?

Hasnt she done enough damage already? - The last time this woman was in office she handed over a gargantuan $12billion to the Paris Club for part payment of nigeria's debt as if that wasnt bad enough the IMF stipulated that nigeria had to continue implementing their terrible austerity measures ie the selling off of public assets to foreign investors (for next to nothing), devaluation of the naira even further, cuts in public spending which have led to the collapse of the health and education systems.

But of course Okonjo Iweala couldnt give a mess about the effects of these policies because as a member of the corrupt nigerian elite she lives a life of luxury, sends her children to study abroad and receives medical treatment in america whenever she needs it - so everyone else can go to hell.

i wonder what new scams her and her bosses over in washington have schemed up this time around, but we deserve what we get since we have refused to open our eyes to understand that Okonjo Iweala has absolutely nothing to offer nigerians except mass poverty. I wonder how long it will be before she recommends the Sanusi's sacking - if i remember correctly he was against the IMF recommendation of the devaluation of the naira - looks like he might want to start looking for another job because i think he is going to clash with this woman very soon.

^^^Pls do not derail this thread, we r not talking about the appointment of a finance minister here.

Who says the senate cannot sack the CBN governor? All they have to do is decide that he is incompetent and recommend to the president that he be sacked!

Did u not witness what transpired when the senate summoned the CBN gov. to explain what he meant when he said the NASS remunerations accounted for a large chunk of the country's budgeted recurrent expenditue?
At his appearance, he told the senators that if they wanted to sack him they could go ahead, but he would stand by what he said.

Regarding the issue of islamic banking. In principle it is ok, however in Nigeria, u can be sure that once it starts, the islamic bank will be hijacked by extremists who will practise their own type of islamic banking. Do pple not know that the kind of islam practised in northern nigeria is one of the most radical forms of islam, someone was said that it could only be compared to that of Afghanistan in the whole world. If pple think in practise that those banks will give non muslims loans, i'm surprised at their naivety. They would not openly say they cannot give such loans, but there would always find a reason not to approve the loan. This islamic banking is definitely not what the country needs at this critical time, maybe later. The mindset of the citizens is not tuned to accommodate it. Not with all the bombings, religous killings and growing distrust among the major religions. We need to be careful, as this form of banking will only increase the tension btw divergent reli
gous beliefs and further draw us apart. There is such a thing as doing the right thing at the wrong time, and i think that applies in this case.

I dont think she can do it.

Let me add to my response above that the Finance minister cannot sack the CBN gov., but the senate can, please read further comments above.

jonced:

Let me add to my response above that the Finance minister cannot sack the CBN gov., but the senate can, please read further comments above.

the islamic bank will be hijacked by extremists who will practise their own type of islamic banking. Do pple not know that the kind of islam practised in northern nigeria is one of the most radical forms of islam, someone was said that it could only be compared to that of Afghanistan in the whole world. If pple think in practise that those banks will give non muslims loans, i'm surprised at their naivety. They would not openly say they cannot give such loans, but there would always find a reason not to approve the loan. This islamic banking is definitely not what the country needs at this critical time, maybe later. The mindset of the citizens is not tuned to accommodate it. Not with all the bombings, religous killings and growing distrust among the major religions. We need to be careful, as this form of banking will only increase the tension btw divergent reli
gous beliefs and further draw us apart. There is such a thing as doing the right thing at the wrong time, and i think that applies in this case.

has islamic banking been practised before or you plucked this conclusion from the nearby river?

so you mean there might be an ethnic/tribal reason diamond bank is not giving me loan to pay bride price?

violent:

The sense in it is this:

A bank collects money from Mr A (depositor) and gives it out for Mr B (borrower) to conduct business or whatever.  Thus the Bank acts as an Intermediary and is not really concerned with what Mr B does with the money as long as he generates enough profits to pay him (intermediary) back, so that he (intermediary) could refund Mr A's deposit as and at when due.

Now this is the typical Banking system!

Let's say Mr A is a Muslim, whose believe it is a sin to eat pork/ gamble/ consume alcohol/ engage in prostitution.  and Let's say for some reason Mr A holds this view religiously so much so that he wouldn't give out his money for anyone to conduct such businesses.  Under the normal banking system rule stated above, directly or indirectly, Mr A would still be lending out his capital to individuals engaged in such businesses-------> one which contraries his own beliefs.

So Mr A is simply asking for a Banking product, that will ensure that his capital deposits is only directed at businesses according to his religious beliefs.  The catch here is Mr A might likely earn very low interest on this capital as the product provider will NOT be charging borrowers an interest, which implies that the provider will only make profits by investing a substantial sum of the capital in other companies such as auto manufacture, agriculture, technology etc etc.

It's just a banking product that allows for individuals and investors to conduct business transaction in a way that provides allowance for their personal and religious views, nothing more.

And NO, contrary to what many people think, it will NOT be forced on everyone!

Thanks for educating people like me.
You sound very intelligent.

_{But that doesnt mean I wont attack you when I know u go wrong. Small boy}

There are already halal funds trading the NSE, chambers didnt hear or read about anybody being beheaded

Nigeria borrows regularly from Muslim/Islamic countries/organisations- chambers didnt see/read/hear stories about chopping anybody's hand or nose

You didn't get what i meant.Nigerians are so sensitive to issues that pertain to religion and their belief system.That is why i think that even though this system works smoothly in other countries Nigerian may prove to be an exception due to the fact that Nigerians hold their religious beliefs so tenaciously.The cbn should rather concentrate in enlightening other members of the public who may not understand what the non interest banks entail rather than going to the mosque to tell people who already know.

Lets watch and see where sanusi's islmic banking will take us.

Sun of GOD u ar very dull, did ur fada tell u dat? And worst of all u even reduse to take corrections. De CBN is not a private bank, is own by de central govt and de govenor was appointed by de president so also de minister of finance appointed by de president so de minister can't sack de governor no de governor sacked de minister. Dumbass sunofGOD so learn to take coorections okay?

The topic is: Can The Finance Minister Remove The CBN Governor? and not: Is Islamic Banking good for Nigeria?




Anyway, Islamic banking found its roots in Islamic Economics which raised pertinent questions about interest.

Why is the creditor overpayed to underpay the debtor?

How is interest (which is fixed) justified by productivity (a variable)?

Anybody with elementary economics will agree that Islamic banking is good but religious extremism in the North accounts for why many Nigerians deter it.

violent:

The sense in it is this:

A bank collects money from Mr A (depositor) and gives it out for Mr B (borrower) to conduct business or whatever. Thus the Bank acts as an Intermediary and is not really concerned with what Mr B does with the money as long as he generates enough profits to pay him (intermediary) back, so that he (intermediary) could refund Mr A's deposit as and at when due.

Now this is the typical Banking system!

Let's say Mr A is a Muslim, whose believe it is a sin to eat pork/ gamble/ consume alcohol/ engage in prostitution. and Let's say for some reason Mr A holds this view religiously so much so that he wouldn't give out his money for anyone to conduct such businesses. Under the normal banking system rule stated above, directly or indirectly, Mr A would still be lending out his capital to individuals engaged in such businesses-------> one which contraries his own beliefs.

So Mr A is simply asking for a Banking product, that will ensure that his capital deposits is only directed at businesses according to his religious beliefs. The catch here is Mr A might likely earn very low interest on this capital as the product provider will NOT be charging borrowers an interest, which implies that the provider will only make profits by investing a substantial sum of the capital in other companies such as auto manufacture, agriculture, technology etc etc.

It's just a banking product that allows for individuals and investors to conduct business transaction in a way that provides allowance for their personal and religious views, nothing more.

And NO, contrary to what many people think, it will NOT be forced on everyone!

We've been through this road many times before in Nigeria. Remember the Nigerian Breweries located and making money for Nigerians in the south and north? Well, sharia state practices require them not to participate in beer making and direct consumption, but have you ever heard them reject revenues from beer companies Tell me one state that has ever returned a kobo to the federal goverment because the money came from alcohol trade?
Annual pilgrimage to Mecca began the same way, it was said the muslims has a right to fullfil one of the 5 cardinal points of his religion, before you know it a major percentage of our budget is being used to sponsor people who otherwise would never have afforded to go to Mecca by themselves, and a token number of christians added to the mix to make it appear balanced.
I predict that Islamic banking as you theorize it will fail in Nigeria, and will be eventually be paid for by christians in one way or another.

Remember the Nigerian Breweries located and making money for Nigerians in the south and north? Well, sharia state practices require them not to participate in beer making and direct consumption, but have you ever heard them reject revenues from beer companies Tell me one state that has ever returned a kobo to the federal goverment because the money came from alcohol trade?

Good point

@Manny4life:

I have just seen a CBN act of 2007, which repeals the 1999 act.

In the section 11, subsections 2f, it states explicitly that the President can remove the CBN governor but must be supported by two-thirds majority of the Senate.

So i guess i was wrong earlier on.

enyojo:

Thanks for educating people like me.
You sound very intelligent.

_{But that doesnt mean I wont attack you when I know u go wrong. Small boy}

Haha, attack me? no be fight now. . .

ngozi has not achieved what sanusi has achieved in his career, he is a young man but the man is born in economics and a family of scholars, sanusi got into economics when he was just a teenger not by chance, and she knows it she shouldn't insult the nation but even thinking about removing sanusi, i am sure she knows it she cannot do it, it would be a insult as i said

I dont know why some people are been myopic in their thinking. Infact poverty is not good is as as a result of poverty that most nigerians always claimed to be holier than pope or jesus or has the frustration in the country took away some people's thinking faculty. In Islamic banking they doent charge interest wehter on loan or deposit because the interst we are collecting is Haram against islam teaching so hw does this affect the non muslim. PLS SEEK FOR KNOWLEDGE

No, the CBN Governor is constitutionally appointed by the President and serves for a 5 year term.

Guys please take a 30 second survey for me if you please.

www.mykasuwa.com
www.kasuwa.net

We've got a few small prizes to give away as well

namfav:

ngozi has not achieved what sanusi has achieved in his career, he is a young man but the man is born in economics and a family of scholars, sanusi got into economics when he was just a teenger not by chance, and she knows it she shouldn't insult the nation but even thinking about removing sanusi, i am sure she knows it she cannot do it, it would be a insult as i said

Sanusi is absolutely no economics scholar.
All he has is a Msc in economics in ABU Zaria
Okonjo on the other hand is an MIT Phd holder and has worked with international institutions.

It is time we brought in international technocrats to run he complexities of our economy and to give us a long term direction.
Not this simplistic uneducated view of how the CBN should function.

All u Sanusi apologists, look at our banks it is in a worse state than he met it.
Confidence and stock price is at an all time low.

He view on banking is that banks should just be deposit warehouses while the CBN has directly started funding various aspects of the economy.
We got Sanusi because at a point in time Nigeria just had to politisize tghe position.
Well handled by another timid nit wit yaradua.

Why o why did Sanusi bail those banks out, he should have left them to die off, afterall, they constituted a minority of the holdings. All you Sanusi haters, just wait a couple of years, his term will soon be over and you guys can get another Soludo that will allow the banks to go riot, what I just pray for is that they are not bailed out again.