absoluteSuccess:


But Oduduwa csan come from Mecca or Ile-Ife isn't it?

You guys are making us beg to identify with the name that had its origin in our enclave because it got popular with Yoruba history.

Before the rest of Yoruba adopt Oduduwa as their progenitor, the Aworis have had centuries of religious experience with the name Oduduwa.

Oduduwa is the name of the religion of the Awori people, before Samuel Johnson plucked the name from Yoruba phylum of liturgy to be identified as Yoruba ancestor.

Like the children of Israel, our water have been sold to us.

He became a religion because he was ordained and divinely BLESSED. I KNOW SOME OF HIS DESCENDANTS OF PATRILINEAL BLOOD.

Olu317:
He became a religion because he was divinely BLESSED. I AM ONE OF HIS DESCENDANTS

Wow, great to know!!!

How did you confirm him as your ancestor?

Can you give an impeccable oriki that trace back to him?

absoluteSuccess:


Wow, great to know!!!

How did you confirm him as your ancestor?

Can you give an impeccable oriki that trace back to him?

I am the son of OWA LUUSI. TRACE THAT NAME YOU WILL KNOW. THIS IS SOCIAL MEDIA, MANY PEOPLE MAY BE UNAWARE OF SOME THINGS BUT AM VERY CONSERVATIVE, SENSITIVE AND CAREFUL . HIS SWORD AND REGALIA AND MY ORIKI SPEAKS OF WHO I AM. DOUBT ME ? CHECK ORIKI ONI.(ADEYEYE OGUNWUSI) .. ODUA PATRILINEAL IS the lineage praised as KAARE O' BA.

Olu317:
I am the son of OWA LUUSI.

Welcome my prince, son of the great one.

Please where are you from bro?

absoluteSuccess:


Welcome my prince, son of the great one.

Please where are you from bro?

Eledumare a duro ti gbo gbo omo ati iran Odu'a pelu ebi Oba tala ati gbo awon Iran lotun losi ti won tedo si ILE UFE . A ju wa sè

absoluteSuccess:


Welcome my prince, son of the great one.

Please where are you from bro?

Let us not be carried away because this is a forum where people are CONSCIOUS. I AM WITH YOU MY DEAR BROTHER ALWAYS.

Olu317:
Eledumare a duro ti gbo gbo omo ati iran Odu'a pelu ebi Oba tala ati gbo awon Iran lotun losi ti won tedo si ILE UFE . A ju wa sè

Ajuwase ooo.

absoluteSuccess:

Ajuwase ooo.

Ashé wa

absoluteSuccess:


Epic, as in...

Believe whatever you chose to believe, I have equal entitlement to my belief-system.

Your convictions does not make you superior to me however hard and clever you try.

My mind remain as made up as yours with your short-cut to any answer you sought.

And this is where Pseudo-isms come in. Like Physics or any of the pure sciences, History as a social science follows a method. it is not a believe system and knowledge of it is not improved by a belief-system

If we all brought our belief-systems into Physics, Astronomy, Biology, there would be no advancement
from the dark ages of europe, when Religion and Beliefs were creeping into studies, europe made no advancement, it did not even grow in Art.

What I am saying in essence is that Belief-system should be thrown out the window when making intellectual discussions, because belief-system will close the mind to the most obvious of facts and evidence. Just as it has done to you

The likes of Frank Willet, Suzanne Blier have made rigorous studies on Ife culture and history, using the historical method Sir, there is no doubt that has early as 350BC Ife was already a striving African Civilization(Ife's foundation would have been much earlier). Then from what we learn from Linguists, The Yoruba, Edo, Igbo languages separated at about 2000BC. Notable collators of oral tales like Prof. Eluyemi have told how Ife has always been the reference to the beginning of Yoruba culture, he has also made public more details about the origin of Oduduwa, throwing all the mecca, sudan etc hypothesis to the trash bin.

so, I'm not speaking based on belief-system but facts, for you to say you know what these professors(in some of the best Universities in the world) don't know, you would have to provide far more outstanding evidence than they have.

But you have admitted by this post that your posts on History is not based on evidence but a belief system, how then do you expect to be taken seriously? let's imagine you publish a book, how far will that book go in the Historical community without evidence?

OlaoChi:


And this is where Pseudo-isms come in. Like Physics or any of the pure sciences, History as a social science follows a method. it is not a believe system and knowledge of it is not improved by a belief-system

Pseudoism applies in every facet of life. When Aristotles wrote physics, the next topic was 'metaphysics' which means 'after physics'. What correlation is there between physics and metaphysics? Every hypothesis you finds around a topic that has not been popular can always be termed pseudoism.

If we all brought our belief-systems into Physics, Astronomy, Biology, there would be no advancement
from the dark ages of europe, when Religion and Beliefs were creeping into studies, europe made no advancement, it did not even grow in Art.

When Aristotles postulated that lighter object will fall faster than heavy object, that was his believe, but Galileo had a different opinion that air resistance hamper lighter object than heavier objects in motion. So a vacuum makes the difference.

Physics thrives on believe systems, the laws of physics is the law of nature, a layman has no believe system but thinks in a random and arbitrary way, but a student of physics is given to a study of objects, shapes and dimention and their predictable behaviour in nature.

Astronomy is a step upward from Astralogy and the names of some stars are the names of some gods in greek mythology. Biology is a study of organisms and their habitat, most of the ideas that form the corpus of that branch of knowledge were developped by men with believe system on how nature works.

What I am saying in essence is that Belief-system should be thrown out the window when making intellectual discussions, because belief-system will close the mind to the most obvious of facts and evidence. Just as it has done to you

Maybe I'm the problem. Below, you mentioned Frank Willet and Suzanne Wenger: these are superhumans because they are whites, they know our history more than we do, their ideas are fact about us and our own claims lack basis, but mere pseudoism. Educated illiterate way of thinking, inferior in his own imagination and still expecting everyone to think likewise..

The likes of Frank Willet, Suzanne Blier have made rigorous studies on Ife culture and history, using the historical method Sir, there is no doubt that has early as 350BC Ife was already a striving African Civilization(Ife's foundation would have been much earlier). Then from what we learn from Linguists, The Yoruba, Edo, Igbo languages separated at about 2000BC. Notable collators of oral tales like Prof. Eluyemi have told how Ife has always been the reference to the beginning of Yoruba culture, he has also made public more details about the origin of Oduduwa, throwing all the mecca, sudan etc hypothesis to the trash bin.

You see, everything revolve around what people think happen at Ife, whatever it is becomes Yoruba history. Even Ifa mentioned a whole lot of places in Yorubaland and none of this master historians has decoded any of its crypts. But any mention of Ife speak for every facet of Yoruba history.

Lazy folks. Whatever the white man said you canonize and zoom in and out, varying the same old stories in different degrees, yet it remains the same old story refurbished. Can't you make fresh discoveries and turn up fresh new figures? So how is your new edition of History of Southern Nigeria written in 1920s the latest?

This also is a believe system, but often, educated people with no believe system are often wise by half, you can't hold the handle of a knife without taking the other end with it, its either you agree with Oduduwa of mecca or you pluck another name from Yoruba pantheon as Yoruba ancestors instead of working hard to out-herod-herod.

so, I'm not speaking based on belief-system but facts, for you to say you know what these professors(in some of the best Universities in the world) don't know, you would have to provide far more outstanding evidence than they have.

Isaac Newton did not present far more outstanding fact about the nature of things in his laws of motion, its the duty of education to accept a convincing claim. Its not the duty of the pundit to force it on schools.

But you have admitted by this post that your posts on History is not based on evidence but a belief system, how then do you expect to be taken seriously? let's imagine you publish a book, how far will that book go in the Historical community without evidence?

Let the community take out what is useful to her and leave the rest to me.

OlaoChi:


And this is where Pseudo-isms come in. Like Physics or any of the pure sciences, History as a social science follows a method. it is not a believe system and knowledge of it is not improved by a belief-system

If we all brought our belief-systems into Physics, Astronomy, Biology, there would be no advancement
from the dark ages of europe, when Religion and Beliefs were creeping into studies, europe made no advancement, it did not even grow in Art.

What I am saying in essence is that Belief-system should be thrown out the window when making intellectual discussions, because belief-system will close the mind to the most obvious of facts and evidence. Just as it has done to you

The likes of Frank Willet, Suzanne Blier have made rigorous studies on Ife culture and history, using the historical method Sir, there is no doubt that has early as 350BC Ife was already a striving African Civilization(Ife's foundation would have been much earlier). Then from what we learn from Linguists, The Yoruba, Edo, Igbo languages separated at about 2000BC. Notable collators of oral tales like Prof. Eluyemi have told how Ife has always been the reference to the beginning of Yoruba culture, he has also made public more details about the origin of Oduduwa, throwing all the mecca, sudan etc hypothesis to the trash bin.

so, I'm not speaking based on belief-system but facts, for you to say you know what these professors(in some of the best Universities in the world) don't know, you would have to provide far more outstanding evidence than they have.

But you have admitted by this post that your posts on History is not based on evidence but a belief system, how then do you expect to be taken seriously? let's imagine you publish a book, how far will that book go in the Historical community without evidence?

You do know little about Odua. Professor Eluyemi can never outrightly speak against the tradition of Yoruba ancestors because he saw more but said or wrote less on the ones shown to him at ILE IFE and the ones he knew did he only told the world. CERTAIN YORUBA TRADITION WHICH YOU DESIRE TO KNOW IS SHROUDED IN SECRECY. It takes the deep to call out unto the deep......Yoruba language didn't break away from Ibo language 2000Bc because Ibo language is older than Yoruba language. Yoruba language had developed a system of panegyric which Ibos didn't had developed before 2000 years ago. How do you now refer to Ibo and Yoruba connection apart from marriage factor.If that theory being propounded were to be true, then all languages developed from Babel ..Land of Nimrod (between Middle East and Horn of Africa's environment). The truth is that these writers are taken advantage of people economically because of greed to make money. Odu'a as progenitor of Yoruba story sells and these wicked people takes advantage of it . Do you know many Odua descendants have very dark woolly hair or locked hair? You might even meet some and not know that he or she is odua descendants. Naturally, they are like every neighbours of yours even you.... Do you know Einstein theory of law of gravity has proven to be true? IT WAS BECAUSE A ‘BELIEF THEORY' EXISTED IN THE MIND OF EINSTEIN AND THE RESEARCHERS THAT PROVED IT. BELIEF IS AN INSTINCT DRIVER.

@Olaochi, ....it is not true about the discovery you mentioned of the site of human development at JEBBA BUT JABA/JABBA of NOK CULTURE . And
the Nok culture is an early Iron Age population whose material remains are named after the
Ham village of Nok in Nigeria , Africa, where their famous terracotta sculptures were first discovered in 1928. The Nok Culture appeared in northern Nigeria around 1000 BCE and vanished under unknown circumstances around 500 CE, thus having lasted for approximately 1,500 years. [1]
Iron use, in smelting and forging for tools, appears in Nok culture by at least 550 BCE and possibly earlier. Data from historical linguistics suggest that iron smelting was independently discovered in the region prior to 1000 BCE.

HAM PEOPLE
Hyam , or Jabba , is a regionally important dialect cluster of Plateau languages in Nigeria. Hyam of Nok is the prestige dialect . Blench (2008) treats it, Sait, and Dzar as distinct languages, and notes that Yaat and Ankun may also be separate
Jaba is a Local Government Area in Kaduna State , Nigeria . Its headquarters are in the town of Kwoi (Har Kwain) in Hyam , the language of almost all the entire inhabitants of the local area. The people know themselves as the Ham and speak Hyam but are called 'Jaba' by the Hausa.
The origin of the word 'Jaba' is suggested by Koelle (1854:19) to have emerged during the contact of the people of Ham with the Hausa just about 1800s. Koelle's book records four (4) Ham youth captured during a war with the Hausa in 1846/7 and sold into slavery as revealed in an interview in 1853. According to the youth, the people are Ham or Fu Ham but labelled 'Jaaba' by the Hausa. This suggests the label, Jaba, was not accepted by the Ham at least before the year 1846–7 when the youth who gave information about the area were captured. The use of Jaba to refer to the Ham therefore may not have been more than 168 years now. Further, the meaning of the word 'Jaba' is not clear but it is suggestive of a derogatory description of the people of Ham as the house mouse/rat with the long mouth, poisonous and dangerous (Hayab, J. P. no date).

The question one would expect therefore is how this seemingly derogatory term got to be accepted by the people and utilised to describe them and even gazetted as the identity of a people or the location they are found calls for inquiry. Historically, the Ham must have lived in their current location for 40,000 years with reference to the age of the famous Nok terracotta excavated from the Ham village of Nok. In fact the town of Nok is barely four (4) kilometres from Har Kwain (Kwoi) where the local government secretariat of 'Jaba' is located. It is even shorter by a foot path via Sab Zuro, also an area believed to have been the earliest settlements of what is today 'Kwoi' town (Hayab, J. P. no date).

The word 'Kwoi' is a corruption of the term 'Kwain' ("to scratch" in Hyam). The influence of Hausa contact and its language hence has left an indelible mark on the people of Ham and their association with the name, 'Jaba'. The Ham however are not only located in 'Jaba' local government area but are found in equal number if not more in Kachia local government with sparse populations in Jema'a and Kagarko local governments. There are also Ham villages like Akaleku Sidi, Ayaragu, Masaka, Gitata and Panda with over fifty (50) years of settlement in present day Nassarawa state of Nigeria (Hayab, J. P. ongoing research).


NOK SCULPTURE ATTACHED IS DIFFERENT FROM YORUBA'S KIND OF SCULPTURE..YORUBA PEOPLE CAME WITH A. MORE ADVANCED SCULPTURE DESIGN COMPARED TO ANCIENT ETRUSCAN CULTURE .

absoluteSuccess:


Pseudoism applies in every facet of life. When Aristotles wrote physics, the next topic was 'metaphysics' which means 'after physics'. What correlation is there between physics and metaphysics? Every hypothesis you finds around a topic that has not been popular can always be termed pseudoism.



When Aristotles postulated that lighter object will fall faster than heavy object, that was his believe, but Galileo had a different opinion that air resistance hamper lighter object than heavier objects in motion. So a vacuum makes the difference.

Physics thrives on believe systems, the laws of physics is the law of nature, a layman has no believe system but thinks in a random and arbitrary way, but a student of physics is given to a study of objects, shapes and dimention and their predictable behaviour in nature.

Astronomy is a step upward from Astralogy and the names of some stars are the names of some gods in greek mythology. Biology is a study of organisms and their habitat, most of the ideas that form the corpus of that branch of knowledge were developped by men with believe system on how nature works.



Maybe I'm the problem. Below, you mentioned Frank Willet and Suzanne Wenger: these are superhumans because they are whites, they know our history more than we do, their ideas are fact about us and our own claims lack basis, but mere pseudoism. Educated illiterate way of thinking, inferior in his own imagination and still expecting everyone to think likewise..


You see, everything revolve around what people think happen at Ife, whatever it is becomes Yoruba history. Even Ifa mentioned a whole lot of places in Yorubaland and none of this master historians has decoded any of its crypts. But any mention of Ife speak for every facet of Yoruba history.

Lazy folks. Whatever the white man said you canonize and zoom in and out, varying the same old stories in different degrees, yet it remains the same old story refurbished. Can't you make fresh discoveries and turn up fresh new figures? So how is your new edition of History of Southern Nigeria written in 1920s the latest?

This also is a believe system, but often, educated people with no believe system are often wise by half, you can't hold the handle of a knife without taking the other end with it, its either you agree with Oduduwa of mecca or you pluck another name from Yoruba pantheon as Yoruba ancestors instead of working hard to out-herod-herod.



Isaac Newton did not present far more outstanding fact about the nature of things in his laws of motion, its the duty of education to accept a convincing claim. Its not the duty of the pundit to force it on schools.



Let the community take out what is useful to her and leave the rest to me.

I'll address only the relevant point

rather unfortunate that you would resort to calling out competent researchers based on race. you that are a black man, what is your contribution to black history? mind you, Willet and Blier did not make up their writtings by beliefs but what they found out through studying other works of yoruba historians (Blier often times references Prof. Eluyemi), she has met with all the leaders of the Ile-Orisas in Ife, she has interviewed the Obalara, Obalase, etc. Eluyemi himself(one of her sources is an initiate and native of Ife). Sir, please what are your sources? The Bible? a jewish book? how do you study Yoruba history and go to a chinese book, or Indian book? please explain this. Are you initiated, are you even a traditionalist? this I know you are not, but a christian, just as a Muslim will make hypothesis of Yoruba connection to Mecca, You christians make connection to israel. i'm sure are not daft, and can tell that your Religion is a factor here. So you are not even properly cultured, you do not know Yoruba traditions, I am not saying I know better but at least I am free- and open-minded and can see clearly whereas you cannot

Olu317:
You do know little about Odua. Professor Eluyemi can never outrightly speak against the tradition of Yoruba ancestors because he saw more but said or wrote less on the ones shown to him at ILE IFE and the ones he knew did he only told the world. CERTAIN YORUBA TRADITION WHICH YOU DESIRE TO KNOW IS SHROUDED IN SECRECY. It takes the deep to call out unto the deep......If that theory being propounded were to be true, then all languages developed from Babel ..Land of Nimrod (between Middle East and Horn of Africa's environment). The truth is that these writers are taken advantage of people economically because of greed to make money. Odu'a as progenitor of Yoruba story sells and these wicked people takes advantage of it .... Do you know Einstein theory of law of gravity has proven to be true? IT WAS BECAUSE A ‘BELIEF THEORY' EXISTED IN THE MIND OF EINSTEIN AND THE RESEARCHERS THAT PROVED IT. BELIEF IS AN INSTINCT DRIVER.

Sir, with all that you have said so far, I am not bragging but I know more about oduduwa than you do.

so do you know this secrecy? how did you come to know them? so if yoruba have traditions of coming from the middle-east the likes of Falola, Eluyemi cannot say but you can? why are you not respecting the tradition of secrecy if indeed you are telling the truth?

see how you quickly turn to the bible myths in a so called history thread. What is your knowledge of Yoruba tales? you seem vast in Jewish/bible myths like Tower of Babel, you haven't even thought to yourself could that be real or just an attempt by jews and their neighbours to explain the existence of different languages

How do you expect people then to believe that you are not after something? as they are after money, maybe you are too, or in deep need for relevance

@@ absoluteSuccess:

Knowledge shapes ideas, and ideas can form what the science world calls 'belief-theory' ( which you mentioned) but belief theory is not based on certainty, it must be scrutinized, thoroughly over-checked, many times rejected. You both refuse to be rejected, refuse to be scrutinized and checked. you expect to be believed without being challenged, this is not how intellectualism goes

Also there must be a source, a reason for this 'belief-theory' in the first place, this is what the Knowledge is. So what is your knowledge? When you say Yoruba must have come from the middle- east in two waves and give "Obatala led the first wave" as the source knowledge, you have already failed because Obatala led no migration. This is just an example

OlaoChi:
Sir, with all that you have said so far, I am not bragging but I know more about oduduwa than you do.

so do you know this secrecy? how did you come to know them? so if yoruba have traditions of coming from the middle-east the likes of Falola, Eluyemi cannot say but you can? why are you not respecting the tradition of secrecy if indeed you are telling the truth?

see how you quickly turn to the bible myths in a so called history thread. What is your knowledge of Yoruba tales? you seem vast in Jewish/bible myths like Tower of Babel, you haven't even thought to yourself could that be real or just an attempt by jews and their neighbours to explain the existence of different languages

How do you expect people then to believe that you are not after something? as they are after money, maybe you are too, or in deep need for relevance

@@ absoluteSuccess:

Knowledge shapes ideas, and ideas can form what the science world calls 'belief-theory' ( which you mentioned) but belief theory is not based on certainty, it must be scrutinized, thoroughly over-checked, many times rejected. You both refuse to be rejected, refuse to be scrutinized and checked. you expect to be believed without being challenged, this is not how intellectualism goes

What's certain in this elusive and subtle world? But in spite of this, its not ideal for a pundit to doubt his own opinion, others who do not believe the pundit can do the doubt, I only refused to be deceived by grandiose theories which offer nothing but security to their adherents.

Also there must be a source, a reason for this 'belief-theory' in the first place, this is what the Knowledge is. So what is your knowledge? When you say Yoruba must have come from the middle- east in two waves and give "Obatala led the first wave" as the source knowledge, you have already failed because Obatala led no migration. This is just an example

How and where did I report to you Obatala led a migration? You find ridiculous arguments to reduce my points to naught? Whatever pleases you. But you are sure Obatala never migrated here as if you are his contemporary: are you not confused? Have you any proof he existed?

If I claim ifa to be my source, how will you feel? If I claim my source is oriki, what will you think? Your need to append to western approach to history will deny you the need to design a homegrown approach to isolating and enriching your history from relics of the past available in oral tradition.

Yoruba history is chequered, only piece of it is in writing dating from first hand encountered between Clapperton and probably an Alaafin. Now every record littering fixed-text oral tradition becomes obsolete because its never glossed over in the medieval europe or its writers?

Yoruba fixed text oral tradition is a source.

OlaoChi:
Sir, with all that you have said so far, I am not bragging but I know more about oduduwa than you do.

so do you know this secrecy? how did you come to know them? so if yoruba have traditions of coming from the middle-east the likes of Falola, Eluyemi cannot say but you can? why are you not respecting the tradition of secrecy if indeed you are telling the truth?

see how you quickly turn to the bible myths in a so called history thread. What is your knowledge of Yoruba tales? you seem vast in Jewish/bible myths like Tower of Babel, you haven't even thought to yourself could that be real or just an attempt by jews and their neighbours to explain the existence of different languages

How do you expect people then to believe that you are not after something? as they are after money, maybe you are too, or in deep need for relevance

@@ absoluteSuccess:

Knowledge shapes ideas, and ideas can form what the science world calls 'belief-theory' ( which you mentioned) but belief theory is not based on certainty, it must be scrutinized, thoroughly over-checked, many times rejected. You both refuse to be rejected, refuse to be scrutinized and checked. you expect to be believed without being challenged, this is not how intellectualism goes

Also there must be a source, a reason for this 'belief-theory' in the first place, this is what the Knowledge is. So what is your knowledge? When you say Yoruba must have come from the middle- east in two waves and give "Obatala led the first wave" as the source knowledge, you have already failed because Obatala led no migration. This is just an example

Are you sure dear? I disagree. Eluyemi is not part of Odua patrilineal . How can he know much? Have you heard the tale about Odua complexion? You can only share what you have and nothing more. The oldest human presence in YORUBA LAND IS 9000 years and it has never been proven to be YORUBA ANCESTRY. What are you now telling me or those that knows migration happened? have done any research on Yoruba than the whites? THE YORUBA ARTS AND TRADITION SHOWED IT ALL. Then I didn't at anywhere shared that It was at ILE IFE THE TWO MIGRATION TOOK PLACE. Far from it!. At arrival at ILE IFE IT WAS THREE HEAVY WAVES MIGRATIONS and later few ones. Take for instance. Matthew wentforth who claimed he was born in Lagos but he was from FALASAS(Israel)in Ethiopia. Kindly expose me and other learners to these info why would an ISRAELI CAME TO YORUBA LAND? . I am not on competition with you though but trying to expose the truth as I know it. Then on secrecy of some hidden facts, I do not have what you seek but if you know ILE IFE.......YOU WILL TREMBLE ..IFE OOOOOOOOOOYEEEEEE

OlaoChi:

I'll address only the relevant point

rather unfortunate that you would resort to calling out competent researchers based on race. you that are a black man, what is your contribution to black history? mind you, Willet and Blier did not make up their writtings by beliefs but what they found out through studying other works of yoruba historians (Blier often times references Prof. Eluyemi), she has met with all the leaders of the Ile-Orisas in Ife, she has interviewed the Obalara, Obalase, etc. Eluyemi himself(one of her sources is an initiate and native of Ife).

The story your experts learnt in that realm is from the lores of that realm, every realm of Yoruba have a unique lores for us to learn from, don't superimpose the lores of one for all and all for one: we are not given the spirit of slavery, we are free men resisting internal cultural imperialism in whatever subtle guise.

Sir, please what are your sources? The Bible? a jewish book? how do you study Yoruba history and go to a chinese book, or Indian book? please explain this. Are you initiated, are you even a traditionalist? this I know you are not, but a christian, just as a Muslim will make hypothesis of Yoruba connection to Mecca, You christians make connection to israel. i'm sure are not daft, and can tell that your Religion is a factor here. So you are not even properly cultured, you do not know Yoruba traditions, I am not saying I know better but at least I am free- and open-minded and can see clearly whereas you cannot

I know you often claim to know better, give me a source that buttress your claim to Yoruba origin. If you can't, then you think you have knowledge but you are not. So one needs to be initiated into a sacred order to know Yoruba history?

Then it means you have the information with the initiates, into what exactly? Aren't you into a religion or cult that your kinds in universal religion are scared of? Is it not traditional religion you deem as costodians of history? Aren't you bigotted like those you reproach?

You get wiser when you stop being confused and end the sense of entitlement to fact because you are neither christian nor muslim, in which state the defining fact still eludes you. Education has failed you as you can't still make a simple historical statement from your mamoth of knowledge.

Always studying, never coming to the full knowledge of the truth is a curse, not a course.

absoluteSuccess:

Ajuwase ooo.

I salute you broda.

the post wasn't for you directly, I mentioned you so you could definitely read it for some things stated there

but i will address this:

absoluteSuccess:


What's certain in this elusive and subtle world? But in spite of this, its not ideal for a pundit to doubt his own opinion, others who do not believe the pundit can do the doubt, I only refused to be deceived by grandiose theories which offer nothing but security to their adherents.



But you are sure Obatala never migrated here as if you are his contemporary: are you not confused? Have you any proof he existed?

If I claim ifa to be my source, how will you feel? If I claim my source is oriki, what will you think? Your need to append to western approach to history will deny you the need to design a homegrown approach to isolating and enriching your history from relics of the past available in oral tradition.

Yoruba history is chequered, only piece of it is in writing dating from first hand encountered between Clapperton and probably an Alaafin. Now every record littering fixed-text oral tradition becomes obsolete because its never glossed over in the medieval europe or its writers?

Yoruba fixed text oral tradition is a source.

it doesn't work that way, in the community of intellectuals and the study of a science or social science, the right method must be followed. when objects of potential are brought forth as 'belief-theory' (not belief-system; please note the difference) it must undergo thorough scrutiny. do you have authentic reasons to call Ife origin of yorubas a grandiose theory? Are you privy to things people like the Araba Agbaye doesn't even know about yoruba traditions?

If we all brought our claims and propagated them maybe through books or some other means ie. Internet, there would be chaos, there would be no History, that is why standards are set, and to bring things that seek to raise the bar, you must provide compiling evidence, not expect people to encourage you and hold you by faith, History is not a religion
Unless you do not really care about History in the first place, you don't care for knowledge so you are not the least bothered if there is chaos in the field of Yoruba history, so anybody can say whatever they like and should be encouraged


The people of Idita, are direct descendants of obatala IranjeIdita(on nairaland) is from Idita. All traditions that surround Obatala can be traced to this people. the stories told by other clans in Ife and all over yorubaland support the traditions of Idita. Shrine sites and Archaology so far supports. So it has fulfilled all prerequisites of African history. I dn't need to be born during the time of Obatala to know what happened, that question is actually dumb, because you claim to have knowledge of yoruba origin from israel, it is then rather silly for you to ask rhetorically if I am Obatala's contemporary


Ifa cannot to be your source because you are a bible believing christian, not an Awo. You could claim but a claim is just a claim

Regardless of opinions and conclusions or theories put forward by both domestic and foreign scholars, visual arts remain an inseparable endowment of humanity. It is safe to say that Yoruba ancestors recorded events and marked them for proper placement in geo-political reference.
Their arts are records and it speaks clearly to us. In our study of ancestry and origin we dismissed these arts as mere oral tradition full of biased ideas thus putting more trust in written records formulated by assumptions and theories and preclusions. There are even authors who never stepped foot in Yorubaland but yet took upon themselves as experts on Yoruba and published what they termed history, their only resource is a library in a far away land.

There are numerous arts and oral history in our posession and available for thorough investigation and understanding. For example if we look at the Ife Heads (Bronze excavations from Wunmonije Compound) we should see that two features are represented marked distinctly by the eye and its lids. In one set the eyelids angle up and align with top of the earlobe. In the other set the eyelids angle down and in profile with the bottom of the earlobe. Racial types are differentiated by subtle changes in angle, profile and thickness of forehead, eyebrows, eyelids, cheekbones, nose, lips and chin.

I don't have time to dedicate to this chat at moment but a lot on mind I want to say but I would just leave pictures for now and maybe in a revisit I can share more in length.

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Leo Freobenius visited and spent time in Yorubaland and all his productions on our history are completely of tangible values. What he could not take away into archives he reproduced in arts to mirror the actual object. In the end he found it convincing that he was in the land of ancient Greeks. Frobenius travelled through all parts of Africa, beginning in North Africa and working his way down to the Tropics and past us to the lower hemisphere. Nowhere else did he report of a people parallel in civilization to the Greeks.

Look at the following images in comparison of knowledge between Yoruba and Greek.

Was Oduduwa a returnee to the land of his ancestors and origin in Ife?

Soap stone images found in Esie continue to intrigue experts but our own people dismiss them as idols, myths and oral biases. Now this young researcher will write a book on his study, conducted in our land and then we will begin to reference him as an expert and scholar whose work is flawless.

Where are our own scholars and experts to go to Esie and study and interprete what ancestors are revealing to us in this priceless collection of endowments?

This is picture of Aru'gba in Yoruba.

This is also Yoruba worship but this is not Igba. What is this?

MetaPhysical:
This is also Yoruba worship but this is not Igba. What is this?

I can mention the names of everybody in that picture. Some are alive, some have passed and some who are not part from Idita have been bannished.

That is a stool (withholding the local name) used by Yeyelorisa (Yeemo's representative) to sit. The stool is used twice during the festival - when Yeemo (Yeyelorisa) took (takes) omi ero & other stuff to the Ooni where the Orunmila (Araba Agbaya) & his 15 awo olodu merindinlogun, the otun ife & Mode'wa are also present.

Now, what have you assumed that to be in Israel.

This is just a seat, there's igba obatala carried by an Arugba.

Olu317:
@Absolutesuccess ,little do know about Yoruba history and you need to understand the depth of Yoruba knowledge to even acknowledged the proper arrangement of the kingship tussle in Ile ife before Oduduwa was acknowledged and accepted as being a king after the dynasty of omri in Yorubaland.Oduduwa was never from igodomigodo because nothing having to do spiritualism/way of life, beliefs did Yoruba copied from igodimogido if truly he came from Edo with such magnificent influence not even 10% of Edo language is traceable nor kingly lifestyle . Here are more puzzle to discredit their fallacy, what is the distance between igodomigodo to Ile ife that ikerladan ozoduwa wouldn't want to go and revenge since he was supposed to be killed?,How all of a sudden a weakling prince became mysteriously powerful in short period? how come he acquire the mystical power and so spiritual within few miles to Ile Ife that he didn't return to Bini?, Why didnt Yoruba know about his Edo ancestral home?, How come he refused to visit Igodomigodo after having a huge followers of Yoruba stock? what crown did they wore in Edoland that is older than ILE IFE crown?why didn't he tell Yoruba to bury him in Igodomigodo with his depth knowledge on leadership role? .The truth is that when Oduduwa reigned as OOni through him, there was Peace and he perfected the kingship title in a well balanced manner and perhaps the Edo heard about it and decided to ask him to also control their territory which the man refused on several occasions but later accepted to help them by sending his son Oranmiyan to Salvage the Town from destruction.Oduduwa personality was a normal orisa Yoruba lifestyle, who are always content with their own things and don't believe in unnecessary venturing into another people's privacy or territory except Yoruba are First attacked before they go out to defend and subdued their enemies.The man came from middle East, because he mentioned Nimrod(Lamurudu).Edo people knew nothing like Nimrod and this so story had been transferred orally from generation to generation. Before Odu'a there was a dynasty called omri and there were 16 rulers before Oduduwa and non of these kings or one woman regent that you and I or anyone can see any traceable sign of them in west Africa. This confirm Yoruba true story from mid East. Yoruba names being called at one time was “USERE- MAGBO. Baba Yemi Elebuibon is still alive to tell you more on Yoruba history. However, In Odu Ifa, a lot of hidden ancient Yoruba history is enshrined in it. Apart from these, Arabs had history of those expunged during 6Bc/7Bc during the reign of Assyrians and Babylonians. Yoruba language is ancient Hebrew /Aramaic even if it now graded as niger-Congo language,they may try to rewrite our history but the truth prevails always . Lastly, in the shrine of Obatala the worship of seven skull of the dead king ancient as they used to do in the Ancient Israel kingdom is still in practice till today in Ile ife but Yoruba won't expose this to the world because of believe in absolute SPIRITUALISM

This is the skull worship you were referring to on the Bini thread.

Please, what is the source of this?

OlaoChi:
the post wasn't for you directly, I mentioned you so you could definitely read it for some things stated there

but i will address this:


it doesn't work that way, in the community of intellectuals and the study of a science or social science, the right method must be followed. when objects of potential are brought forth as 'belief-theory' (not belief-system; please note the difference) it must undergo thorough scrutiny. do you have authentic reasons to call Ife origin of yorubas a grandiose theory? Are you privy to things people like the Araba Agbaye doesn't even know about yoruba traditions?

If we all brought our claims and propagated them maybe through books or some other means ie. Internet, there would be chaos, there would be no History, that is why standards are set, and to bring things that seek to raise the bar, you must provide compiling evidence, not expect people to encourage you and hold you by faith, History is not a religion
Unless you do not really care about History in the first place, you don't care for knowledge so you are not the least bothered if there is chaos in the field of Yoruba history, so anybody can say whatever they like and should be encouraged


The people of Idita, are direct descendants of obatala IranjeIdita(on nairaland) is from Idita. All traditions that surround Obatala can be traced to this people. the stories told by other clans in Ife and all over yorubaland support the traditions of Idita. Shrine sites and Archaology so far supports. So it has fulfilled all prerequisites of African history. I dn't need to be born during the time of Obatala to know what happened, that question is actually dumb, because you claim to have knowledge of yoruba origin from israel, it is then rather silly for you to ask rhetorically if I am Obatala's contemporary


Ifa cannot to be your source because you are a bible believing christian, not an Awo. You could claim but a claim is just a claim

What is believe-theory?

You have by this token prove that appropriating what belongs to others and in turn teaching them as your devised precept is a fort to you. Believe theory is an anomaly and a meaningless jargon.

And you want to throw me into this chaos. You can google 'believe-theory' and 'believe system'. Probably what you believe are your own way of improvising and promotion of your believe-system.

Did any of your believe went through the process you are prescribing for me?

Olu317:
@Peterakabba, May almighty El that Yoruba calls Eledumare bless you...For supporting my point .Like I have said earlier the worship of SKULL of the heads of the dead king in ISREAL during OMRIDE dynasty is still worshipped today in ILE IFE under the worship of OBATALA cult .For those of us who are yet to believe YORUBA are jews should check out the inscription code on ORANMIYAN staff (sign on OPA oranmiyan ) via The link @peterAkabba above me gave .... even IFA is mentioned by the researcher who naturally isn't African....Being Jew is something else but a Yoruba man is much like it. Proudly Yoruba blood.

Lol.

Whose skulls?

What is your source please.

Olu317:
Something about Yoruba is exceptional. They excel yet they don't make noise. They are insuppressible ,their voice will be heard. They are slow to fight yet they never lost battle. They are a unique people. They never in their history claim JEWS yet their traditions show it. The missionary church in England saw what PA Johnson wrote about our(yoruba history) history in 1840s-1880s, they burnt the book or destroyed it and told the Oldman that they couldn't find it when they gave it to publisher to print .The man PA Johnson died in 1901. An incomplete new and edited copy was released yet God never forsook us. The unbiased white researchers begun to check our history, they saw the Yoruba way of tradition as same with ancient deeper traditions of Israelites.They were desperate because God want to know that the Jewish blood lineage are in west Africa and the researchers from 19th century begun to dig from one place to other to counter our history from being migrants from Asia because we are darker presently. After series of research they are the one that told us now that the way the traditional worshipping was sustain at ILE IFE of seven (7) skull of ancient king in Israel has been found in ILE IFE as being worship under the name of Obatala which had lasted thousand of years in Yoruba land . More and more studying kept on amazing the historians that the way we worship in Yoruba traditions is the same the Israelites did in ancient of biblical history and this can even be found in LEVITICUS in the Bible. Yoruba traditional worshippers had always been secretive about it but I believe God is the one showing us to the world now about his remnant that were sent to slavery because of our fathers stiff necked generations .It is unbelievable to be lost and found. in 2016,the white historians have interpreted the Obelisk artistic engrave on the Opa Oranmiyan to mean lSREAL They Proclaim (YORUBA) us Jews. The most interesting aspect is that our own traditions is the oldest that exist as of today linking it to ISREAL. Although I love the connection but I do prefer my Yoruba identity and will appreciate it always

Olu317:
....Better. However for the record, I don't sit and fold hands on past glory. If someone mentioned Yoruba being Canaanite and information today has it that the the two kings of southern and northern Israel who were killed through JEHU around 5BC-6BC in which after their death the seven skull of divine kings of ancient Israel are being worshiped in Yoruba kingdom under the name of Obatala with the skull . No part of the world is that happening who claim Israelites. How come Yoruba has the highest twins born in the world? Jacob and Esau were the first record in the Bible whose grandparents parents were Abraham . And Israelites are the ones whom were synonyms with twins. So,if we don't remember anything at all, our ancestors transfer it orally that we came from the East. Yoruba didn't tell the white researchers that they want to tell the world that they are Israelite nor do I but the white researchers were the ones saying it because of heavy research on the lost tribes of the largest group of ancient Israelites. Even you can testify to it yourself, where is the largest place of worshipping almighty God in the world? who are the major pastors? Things don't happen by chance, study the Bible and you will understand what God said about his Israelites children when he will give them a soft heart. Read Leviticus very well on how ancient Israelites do sacrifice ,is exactly how Yoruba does sacrifices in the IFA way, Isaiah also has a lot of this information concerning the children of God, so study it if you are interested and if not, am not perturbed but truth stand eternally. And someone like me that has been doing more research independently have even more information to be added on Yoruba history. And once am ready, it shall be published.

Lol you actually believe this and built your theory on this?

Olu317:
THESE AND MORE MADE IT EASY FOR WESTERN RESEARCHERS TO DRAW THE PARALLEL LINE OF LEVANT WAY OF WORSHIP IN YORUBA TRADITION. EVEN ODUA AND HIS PEOPLE SEEMS TO HAVE EXISTED SOMEWHERE ELSE BUT ILE IFE PROBABLY WAS MAKING REFERENCE TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM WHICH COULD BE J'UDAH .THERE IS EVEN A WORD IN ANCIENT YORUBA CALLED “ JUBA" (SALUTATION). I HAVE READ STORY OF YORUBA BEING CALLED USERE - MAGBO AT ONE TIME

ACCOUNT OF ODUA OR BETTER STILL BEING CALLED ADIMULA(ADIMUELA)
ODUA AND THE ACCOUNT OF COMING AND APPEARING LIKE A SPY IN FORM OF “JOSHUA". THERE IS AN ACCOUNT MISSING AND THAT ACCOUNT WILL BE REVEALED

Ife Traditions
Ife tradition, relates that Oduduwa was an emissary from the community of Oke-Ora (Ora mountain), the easternmost part of the Ife cultural area towards the Northeastern Ijesa people. He descended from the Hills on a chain, earning the oriki 'atewonro' meaning 'one who descends on a chain', He was a warrior who wore armors made of Iron. At that time, a Confederacy existed between the 13 communities of the valley of Ile-Ife, with each community or 'Elu' with its own Oba; Oba of Ijugbe, Oba of Ijio, Oba of Iwinrin etc.
When Oduduwa rose to be a prominent citizen of ancient Ife, he and his group are believed to have conquered most of the 13 component communities and deposed Obatala , subsequently evolving the palace structure with its effective centralized power and dynasty. Going by the tribal records, he is commonly referred to as the first Ooni of Ife and progenitor of the legitimate kings of the Yoruba people


WHAT CAN YOU DEDUCE ABOUT A MAN WHO WORE ARMOR TO A PLACE?

He never wore an armor, at least none that we know of or see today. In fact, if amour in your context of use refers to metal/iron worn on the body then it would have been Ogun wearing armour or Ogun making armour for Ooni but Ogun was never in Oduduwa's team.

Oduduwa in proper Ife history led the insurrection but never fought any battle. How could he have worn armour when he was in the safety of Idio town or the palace?

If Oduduwa wore armour, every Ooni elect would have to do the same during coronation processions. Every Ooni goes to Oke Ora to do/wear the same things Oduduwa & his people did and armour wearing isn't part of it.