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Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank - Business (3) - Nairaland

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Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by logica(m): 3:40pm On Jul 20, 2011
kulutempa:

That, sir, is the Nigerian problem in a nutshell: Individual ability, collective stupidity.
Really? It is better to buy a 100KVA generator and then end up sharing other people's problems? LOL, you don't know the problems you are bringing on your head sharing with Nigerians. Eventually the 100KVA generator will get damaged and people will rather watch it rot than contribute to bring it back to life. Even you will tire and would rather watch it rot, by the time the generator turns into a huge sink where all your hard-earned cash disappears.
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by marketsee: 4:02pm On Jul 20, 2011
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by hispy99(m): 6:53pm On Jul 20, 2011
ADint:

Perhaps you want to go over what I wrote again. - The bank will own the license, but get an operator to run it. "The licenses cost $285m which they could have easily raised, it would then simply be a case of bringing in a competent operator/investor to run the business. ".

Banks in most of developed world own a good chunk of the businesses/industries in those economies, albeit indirectly. Which is why they are such behemoths and are able to declare such huge turnovers and profits, because they are directly partaking in the success of virtually all the businesses within and even outside their domain! 


If they own the license and get an operator to run it, the bank still effectively owns the telecom business.  The bank has to consolidate the telecom's financials with its own, all the bank is doing is paying someone to manage it.  It's a different thing if the bank finances the license for someone else.  Once the name on the telecom license says Bank A, then Bank A own the telecom business. 

Banks in most developed countries lend to businesses/industries, they don't own them (except of course the borrower defaults), which is what  would happen if a bank directly owns the operating telecom license. I am yet to find a bank in developed country that operates this model.
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by VolvoS60(m): 11:53pm On Jul 20, 2011
Reference:


No Volvo, no one is Mr. Babalakin of issues here. Yes, he is one rotten con man, seeking to reap where he did not sow. Bad, bad man but we have not created alternatives for ourselves. We remain a nation where people seek individual advantage. We have no corporate structure. We are unable to do basic things for ourselves. If those who claim to rule over us seek only of themselves must everyone follow this model. I repeat a single defaulter does not make a business un-viable. None of those distressed banks was brought down by a single individual or a single investment. Even CBN won't permit that level of risk but why is it so hard to move forward.

If like a poster rightly affirmed banks have tried to take over MM2 and have bee prevented because of government corruption the that's where the problem lies, government. So we should be moving away from them rather and seeking alternatives rather than cozing up and depending on them. Dunno you but as we speak these same government and its corrupt operatives are raising their wages and paying for it with our taxes and collective wealth. Will everyone enjoy this raise, no but everyone will feel its negative impact - that is less and less money to provide infrastructure.

Why is it that Nigerians only excel in things that only personally benefit them. Zenith bank has done up the street in V.I. around its corporate hq. for which there's no benefit. Why can't it provide funds for the even much more along the expressway for which tolls can be paid and revenues generated. I don't get it. We Nigerians sometimes behave like the battered housewife that returns time and time again to her abuser. When are we going to get it that since government has seen we can provide ourselves with electricity, water, security and the lot they expect a natural progression to roads as well. Or when will we get it that it is better for a hundred people to gather together and buy themselves a 100 kva generator than purchase one unit 'I pass my neighbour' each.



@ Reference,

Sir,

In some ways we are on the same page. I believe there's always room for us as a people to try to cultivate a "can-do" mentality. In some respects we are far, far behind some other countries I won't list here - some of these nationalities are better than us in terms of pulling themselves up by their bootstraps and getting things done (when faced with a challenge). I am with you on your observations that we do have to wean ourselves off the “government must do everything” mentality. But my support for this viewpoint is qualified, as you will see in the rest of my post. . .

Let me also state that I have nothing against Babalakin/Bicourtney personally or PPP/concessioning arrangements. If anything, I am 110% in favour of Nigerian companies building infrastructure, locking in value here and creating jobs for their countrymen. What I actually consider Bicourtney ‘s experience in this case to be however, is a symptom of a bigger malaise – the malaise being the crony capitalism which provides the Bicourtneys of this world with an unfair advantage at the taxpayer’s expense. How can the PDP-led government of the Federal Republic of Nigeria justify a concession of this magnitude and several years later all we have are unacceptable excuses such as ”all they (the banks) can give is money for a year or two years and what you need is money for 15 years".

How much lower can we sink? angry

Sir, you proposed a moving away from government (because of corruption) and seeking alternatives rather than depending on them. I presume you are referring to a movement away from contracting arrangements towards PPP & concessioning in the provision of public infrastructure. But you see, the decay in the Nigerian State is apparent even in the execution of an arrangement (concessioning) in which there is no capital outlay or risk by the government. Please refer to the 3 questions I asked in my first post in this thread. All the Nigerian State (I use this term interchangeably with the term ‘government’) had to do was superintend the award of the concession and ensure that the interests of taxpayers were fully protected. That was all. And yet several years later we are stuck with a failed concession, a failed road and still nobody has been punished? How can this be? angry

Sir, I do not believe, as you have said, that we should try to find an alternative to forcing the Nigerian state to live up to what I consider to be its responsibilities. No sir. There are minimum standards that every State worth its salt should not fall below. And that is where our problem is.

Sir, the Nigerian State MUST be held accountable. There is no alternative to us forcing this accountability to come into being. This accountability of the citizen and the state (to each other) is at the heart of the Social Contract. In its simplest form this relationship can be loosely described as: "I (citizen VolvoS60) pay my taxes (among other obligations), obey laws and in return I expect the State to fulfill certain obligations to me." Quid Pro Quo.


Reference – I smiled sadly when I read the last part of your post. I put it to you sir, that the Nigerian State is like a parasite with a death wish that is determined to destroy itself and its hosts (you and I). Please do not for a moment think that the State will leave you in peace to provide your own electricity, water, security, roads (and other assets), while it feeds on petrodollars, undisturbed. For a while, all may seem calm, but not for long. Like all parasites, it will NEVER be satisfied. It will soon turn its attentions to you and these assets (assets which strictly speaking, should be public goods, but which were provided by you and other taxpayers at great private cost) and conjure 1001 reasons to feed on you too, reaping where it did not sow. That is the natural order of things if the rot is not stemmed. Its like a cancer. If you don't cut it out (in this context, I mean forcing the state to be accountable) you die.

If I provide my own security, water, electricity, pay for roads etc. then there is a question which inevitably comes up: Where is the State? What is its usefulness to me? Do we all become mini-states within the State?
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by mbulela: 9:54am On Jul 21, 2011
gbengaijot:

reading some individuals comment on Nairaland makes me cringe. Shows how uninformed some are.

Before you post or insult please always use google to search for information or better still try things out yourself.

1. Before he won the bid, he would have a proof of agreement with banks to lend money

2. It was after the contract came that they stalled investing the funds (they did lot of meetings and the bank reneged on their promise; contract; agreeement)

3. No millionaire sponsors project with their money. They use banks. Thats the essence of banks

4. Nigerian banks are myopic in their lending structure. In the UK, you can get a £25,000 loan spread over 5 years. In Nigeria, no bank will lend you 1 million over a 2 year period.

If you doubt me, take your small business proposal (an already existing biz o) to the bank where you have some money. Ask them for a 1 million Naira loan and see if they'll give it to you.

The bank should have just asked the Government to GUARANTEE the loan, if they are scared that babalakin will not pay back.

That is what the UK govt did recently, (i understand that we are two different nations, but i mean, banking is same everywhere, isnt it?)


Now, can anyone tell me how we can have more jobs, when we are allowing foreign institutions to invest in our country because local banks cannot get their "sogundogoji" (turn 20 to 40 instantly) returns within 1 year.


with all  respect, there are some cringe worthy points in your comments too.
if points 1 and 2 above are correct,then we are looking at a legal matter as the banks would have broken a contract.so why is he wasting his time with meetings instead of heading to the court to sue them?
point number 3 is not particularly relevant.No one asked him to use his money.you seem to ignore the guy's debt profile which is partly public discourse as this might be a case why the banks are unwilling to fall in line.
point number 4 is true but not relevant in this case.they might be myopic to lending a million naira but are not silly in not investing in such a giant project.these bank managers might be greedy and corrupt but they are not silly.
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by BigMeat2: 12:40pm On Jul 21, 2011
The question we should ask ourselves is simple, apart from the MM2 development, which other construction has this company embarked upon - in relations to a huge infrastructural development like road construction and maintenance.

If we can't answer this question, then I'm afraid the PDP govt gave this contract without going through the proper process of selecting viable companies that should be vetted.

Going by the average mentality of a typical Nigerian company, most of them haven't got solid background in their choosen fields. They think that on the job learning will be ok.

This kind of project is normally given to consortium of companies that have got good financial backing either privately or with well established financial institutions.

When the contract was given to this company, I just know that we're all been taken for a ride. Three years after, that's exactly the situation.
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by hispy99(m): 4:22pm On Jul 21, 2011
gbengaijot:

reading some individuals comment on Nairaland makes me cringe. Shows how uninformed some are.

Before you post or insult please always use google to search for information or better still try things out yourself.

1. Before he won the bid, he would have a proof of agreement with banks to lend money

2. It was after the contract came that they stalled investing the funds (they did lot of meetings and the bank reneged on their promise; contract; agreeement)

3. No millionaire sponsors project with their money. They use banks. Thats the essence of banks

4. Nigerian banks are myopic in their lending structure. In the UK, you can get a £25,000 loan spread over 5 years. In Nigeria, no bank will lend you 1 million over a 2 year period.

If you doubt me, take your small business proposal (an already existing biz o) to the bank where you have some money. Ask them for a 1 million Naira loan and see if they'll give it to you.

The bank should have just asked the Government to GUARANTEE the loan, if they are scared that babalakin will not pay back.

That is what the UK govt did recently, (i understand that we are two different nations, but i mean, banking is same everywhere, isnt it?)


Now, can anyone tell me how we can have more jobs, when we are allowing foreign institutions to invest in our country because local banks cannot get their "sogundogoji" (turn 20 to 40 instantly) returns within 1 year.


The govt should guarantee the loan to a private company? Which private loan did the UK govt guarantee?
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by Diligence: 4:51pm On Jul 21, 2011
This is not good news to those south-west kidnappers and ritualists,
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by tpia5: 5:01am On Jul 23, 2011
kurus:

This Babalakin guy is a MORONIC imbe-cile!!! angry angry angry  The highway already has 3 lanes and he is saying they will make it three lanes?

Na who him dey call mugun?

He wants to do the Tinubu Lekki-Epe expressway 419 on this road abi?

God will punish not just babalakin but ALL the religious political opportunists, aka billionaires pastors.

When they steal money, we never hear anything but when they are failing in their duties, they will run to one church or the other.

Nigeria awaits its own Nebuchadnezzar!!! shocked shocked shocked

aye e ti baje tan.
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by ADint(m): 2:57pm On Jul 23, 2011
hispy99:

If they own the license and get an operator to run it, the bank still effectively owns the telecom business.  The bank has to consolidate the telecom's financials with its own, all the bank is doing is paying someone to manage it.  It's a different thing if the bank finances the license for someone else.  Once the name on the telecom license says Bank A, then Bank A own the telecom business. 

Banks in most developed countries lend to businesses/industries, they don't own them (except of course the borrower defaults), which is what  would happen if a bank directly owns the operating telecom license. I am yet to find a bank in developed country that operates this model.

They do - through SPVs. These show up on their books as Investments and investment income or similar.
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by kurus: 6:22pm On Jul 26, 2011
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Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by sholatech(m): 8:55pm On Jul 26, 2011
While I will not want to delve much into Babalakin's Personality, he is still to be commended instead of been castigated. Those who understand the dynamics of PPP/BOT/Concession financing will know that it takes GUTS to do such in Nigeria.
If these projects are easily financed and planned for, why do you think Dangote/adenuga and all our banks are not rushing into it? Most PPP projects been bandied about in Nigeria are not successful because Government pays lip service to the so called 'enabling environment'. Even lagos state govt is not finding it funny and has had to still pump some funds into the so called PPP projects.
You can sit and criticise MMA2, PPP projects by nature are meant to be long-term financed over 25-years but trust Nigerian Banks that the will not touch such projects with a long pole, except you lie to them that u can raise finance somewhere else to pay back in 2 years.
Abuja airports also had concessionaires, please where are they? How are their financials?
For those criticising Babalakin, if he decides to hands off the project, I can bet you we will all have to wait till Federal Government have such funds, maybe donkey years!
Personally, I don't envy him because Nigeria Financial Markets and the Government are not ready for large scale PPP projects as obtainable in South Africa.
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by tpia5: 9:25pm On Jul 27, 2011
kurus:

Se omo yoruba ni e?

Eyah, pele o. Ma binu.

O ti bu mi ni ibikan tele lo je ki emi na ko fun e pada.

Mama yaju si eyan mo, so ti gbo mi?

grin shocked cool

awon omo ale bi poster oni kuruna yi ti fi were ba aye ara won je.
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by tpia5: 9:53pm On Jul 27, 2011
kurus:

tpia,

you must be so miserable that you pick up a guy on NL and so starved of attention that he takes you home. You must be so sex starved that he asks you to sleep with him and all your to-to brain can think of is that you're finally getting laid. shocked shocked shocked

he didn't give it to you once though. Again and again, and then you pay a RANSOM to resuce yourself.

Karma is sweet, aint it?


You dey curse yourself abi?

Dem say you wan marry? Who is the unlucky guy? Did you check this time around to make sure he has not posted any sex video online as well?

If you like yourself, just keep quite, otherwise I will say more oooo.
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by tpia5: 9:54pm On Jul 27, 2011
kurus:

tpia@

didn't you sleep with some guy on NL who ended up blackmailing you for money? shocked Keep shut in this matter!




kurus:

Y U DEY CURSE YOURSELF? tongue tongue Be careful this ugly fat gurl. Your Bottom is so starved you pick guys up on NL abi? that you picked up a blackmailer, who recorded your sorry Bottom on video shows how bad you wanted to get laid and didnt think to be wary of a one night stand! shocked shocked
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by tpia5: 9:54pm On Jul 27, 2011
[size=20pt]OMO ALE[/size]
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by hispy99(m): 11:05pm On Jul 27, 2011
ADint:

They do - through SPVs. These show up on their books as Investments and investment income or similar.

They don't either through SPV's or any other vehicle.  Well run banks don't go out buying businesses outright or telecom licenses with the intention of hiring managers for such businesses.  I am not referring to the merchant banking operations of bank's where they may co-invest with other firms in companies.  That is not the same as buying a telecom license and hiring people to manage it.
Re: Lagos-Ibadan Expressway To Be Financed By South African Bank by kurus: 3:03pm On Aug 01, 2011
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